Bumping this as im torn between the two

I reached out to them a while ago, asking for a pair of headphones for review. I don't believe I got an answer. At some point, I might try to reach out to them again.

Thanks for watching my videos! 🙏 Well, comparing good wireless headphones with good wired headphones, wireless headphones aren't quite there yet when it comes to sound quality. There are so many variables that differ when comparing them: the headphone amplifier, cables, audio source, DAC etcetera. Also to take into consideration with wired headphones is that most money goes into the sound quality, whereas with wireless headphones, a good chunk of the budget will have to go into the electrical part, battery, phone app, Bluetooth connectivity, ANC research etcetera. So, in my opinion, comparing wired and wireless headphones with the same price tag, it's not a fair comparison. That said, I understand what you want to achieve, a great headphone sound experience without any drawbacks. As I see it, we are not there yet. Hope this helped anyway. Cheers Frederick

@immersivesoundtech Thank you so much Frederick for your reply. I will definitely try to find a dealer where to listen the Dali 12. I never wanted to invest money for a wireless headphones because of luck of quality but probably they are the right compromise considering that I will use them when I travel or late night before sleeping and probably from a mobile device or a computer. Again thanks and all the best! Angelo

Thanks for your contribution. Much appreciated! 🙏

@@immersivesoundtech They just arrived, good sound right out of the box, thanks for the review.

Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated! 🙏

Thanks for watching my review and for your comment! Well, I also like Focal Bathys, and still use the a lot. But, in direct comparison, the Dali IO-12 performs 'better' by rendering a smoother listening experience and a more 'balanced' soundstage. That means a lot to me. Love both headphones. Cheers Frederick

Wow, thanks! 🤩

Well, I haven't listened to the Noble Audio FoKus Apollo headphones, and you messaged spurred me to contact them asking if they can send me a pair for review. They sure look interesting. Fingers crossed, I maybe get a chance to try them out. Thanks for pointing me in their direction. Please let me know if you get the chance to compared them with Focal Bathys, okay. 👍 All the best Frederick

@immersivesoundtech I have both so far. I have to say that the noble fokus apollo has more impactful bass and sounds detailed, especially with LDAC, but the focal bathys has a wider soundstage, even more detail, and are louder, especially in dac mode. To me, the Focal bathys sound a little bit harsh in the treble and mid regions in some tracks, The Noble Audio Fokus Apollo sounds less harsh, and the mids are more recessed, which I kind of wish it wasn't but I can eq that and I can listen for longer periods on the Apollo. The Fokus Apollo has 80 hours with anc off and 60 hours with anc on. The Fokus Apollo can also be used completely passive, so if the battery is dead, you can use it with a 3.5mm cable, but I have to say the cable they provide is not very good.

@@sigma921 Okay, good to know. Thanks for your report. Let's see if Noble Audio answers my request for a pair of review headphones. 👍

Sure, all three headphones support AAC, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive and SBC, but only the Mark Levinson 5909 support the Sony LDAC codec.

The best audio source for the Px8 is via USB-C cable, hooked up to a laptop or DAP. You will probably not have the same loss of quality, using the included minijack to USB-C cable, hooking up the headphones via analogue connection to a headphone amp. However, compared to hooking them up digitally via USB-C, the analogue minijack cable means that you're adding an external DAC, an external amp, and the ADC in the headphones. How much all this will affect the sound quality, well you just have to try it out and evaluate the sound quality to the Bluetooth connection. If you do it, please let me know how it works out for you, okay. Good luck Frederick

@@immersivesoundtech | oh btw, mine are working fine with the USBCcable and dongle on an ios device (iPhone SE 2 or 3). However, I bought a USB-C/Lightning cable and it isnt working, also I bought a USB-C to lightning adapter for the included USB-C cable, but that also didnt work, the B&W support chat told me only the included cables will work.

@ do you have any reccomendations for a DAP?

Well, that's why I stress the importance of proper 'burn-in' before evaluating a pair of factory-new headphones. Some headphones need more 'burn-in' than others. I got the Sonos ARC too, and plan to review them soon. They sound good too, although they seem to squeeze a bit too much on my (big) head. Other than that, I also like how light weight they are and the transparency is pretty good (in that price range) and the ANC is definitely good. 👍

@@immersivesoundtechthat maybe was the problem with my test. I used 10 different songs to test them in every genre ever frequency respnse, spaciousness, details, etc and it was a really tough decision. Currently Im also looking for a good pair of open more audiophile headphones for at home. Do you have any ideas

@@Hi1mNico Well, regarding open-back headphones, my personal favorites are the Focal Utopias. I have TAD Compact Reference One speakers with Beryllium mid-range and tweeters - to me, best speakers in the World. I guess I have a weakness for Beryllium. 🙂 I also like the Austrian Audio The Composer headphones, especially together with their headphone amplifier. Well worth a try. Austrian Audio is an offspring of engineers from AKG so they know their stuff. Meze makes interesting headphones than sounds good. Grado also do, but they are usually on the heavy side.

Glad you like them. They sound mighty fine indeed. I haven't dived down the DAP dongle rabbit hole yet, so I have no information to share.

Many thanks for your kind words, Zajko. And for putting up with my 'dad jokes'. It means a lot to me. 🙂 As you so kindly point out, I try to combine a bit of company history and product portfolio to introduce the manufacturer to my audience, along with my professional and personal views on the review unit at hand. I have worked as a freelance technical journalist for almost twenty-five years now, writing for Sound On Sound magazine and a couple of other trade magazines. So, I have learnt how to do proper disposition of an article by writing many of them, always with the reader's expectations in mind. And the same process can be applied to video creation, which I find very rewarding. Still, the video medium is new to me, and I'm finding my way as I go. That's why your comment feels extra warm because what you describe is what I try to convey in my videos. Again, many thanks for your kind words. 🙏 Merry Christmas Frederick

Thanks Stephen! As you point out, the Mark Levinson 5909 have more detail in the treble (and upper mid-range), but the Dali IO-12 sound substantially more smooth and musical to my ears, and that's why they have become one of my absolute favorite wireless headphones. Dali has invited me to their factory in Denmark, and hopefully I can make time for a trip early next year. They also make really nice-sounding speakers as well. Merry Christmas Frederick

@ what a lovely gesture from Dali..would love to join you on that tour that’s for sure..i’ve never heard the Kore but at some point will travel into London to seek a pair out and enjoy them on demo 🎉🎉 Have a great Xmas Frederick 🎅🎅

​@@stephenwest673 You should have a listen to Dali speakers, and when you go to London, you have to visit the Kef Music Gallery store - it's just off Oxford street. Very cool place. Downstairs they have a large home cinema with Trinnov Waveforming calibration. That means EXACTLY the same bass response in the whole room. Fantastic experience. They also have the KEF Blade speakers set up in another room downstairs and they are also well worth a listen. Merry Christmas 🎅🎅

@ 👍😀 will do

Yesterday I had a chance to listen to them together with Focal Bathys, Noble Audio FoKus Apollo and ML 5909. I took away the Dali iO-12. I knocked out the ML 5909 first. I didn't like their crisp highs and mids. The final was between the Focal Bathys and the Dali's which I liked the overall sound impression of the most.

@ thanks for the breakdown ad feedback much appreciated!

Thanks for your kind words! 🙏 Good luck with your headphone purchase. More reviews are in the making, but first some well-deserved rest. Cheers Frederick

Glad to help out and thanks for watching my reviews! 👍 Recordings certainly does not have to be 'perfect' to sound great on the IO-12. Their high sound quality will 'portray' the music very well not matter the sound quality of the recordings. However, with that sound quality, the headphones will of course showcase the record's sound quality (or lack of it). I can it "the HiFi curse" when a pair of really high quality speakers will show the flaws of a recording, that 'lesser' speakers might not in the same way. Same goes for high quality headphones. Personally, that's not a problem for me as I can "lay off" my sound engineering cap and just listen to the music. Took me years to get to that point after having analyzing and mixed music for most of my life. But, you are certainly right that the Dali IO-12 won't give you the possibility to alter the sound character of your music. My recommendation is to stick to your Focal Bathys - which have great sounding EQ possibilities. 👍

I haven't had the chance to listen to the IO-8 yet. But, the shape of the earcups are quite different, which will have an effect on both the sound and how well they fit your head. The IO-12 are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn, and I wonder if the IO-8 will give me the same sensation - probably not. Dali's patented SMC driver is one of their unique designs that really help lower the distortion and nonlinearities, and if the IO-8 doesn't have that - on paper - they won't perform as well as the IO-12 does. But, I need to have a listen to them before I really can say how different they sound compared to the IO-12. If you get to listen to both models, please let me know what you think. 👍

​@@immersivesoundtech I bought the IO-8 a couple days ago and have listened to them around 10 hours. I haven't tested the IO-12 (only 10 minutes in a store)​. I do really like the sound, I had to (and still have to a certain degree) get used to the sound. I do really like the crispness, they sound better than anything I have ever owned. The only problem for me is the comfort. I don't have big ears, but after less than a hour my ears do start to hurt because it clamps on my ears. also, I feel the weight on my head. Therefore I will return them, perhaps I will get the IO-12 and see if they feel comfortable to me, I'm curious if I also feel pressure on top of my head with the IO-12. For me, the IO-8's are more than loud enough. Dali also sells the IO-12 earcups, which do fit on the IO-8, they don't recommend it though so I'm not going to do that.

Thanks for your kind words and support, Stephen. ❤️ Well, I planned to film and post the review months ago, but work and life came in between. We remodeled three rooms in our house, giving the teenagers larger room, which also meant me giving up my beloved control room that I've been using for thirteen years. The teenagers got bigger rooms and dad got a smaller room, but I'm very happy in my new KZbin studio. It's such a great place for focusing on creation (because there's really no room for disturbing stuff laying around). In this new setup, I learn as I go. This review really was a mountain climb to finish, because I got thwarted technically and just mentally and emotionally derailed by work and remodeling the house, so for me, this is the most rewarding video I've posted so for - just because it was such a cumbersome experience to create. But you don't learn anything new if you don't put yourself on thin ice now and then, right? 😉 That's why your kind words and support really cheer me up. 🙏 Let's see what reviews that will be created in the near future. First some well-earned Christmas rest. Merry Christmas 🎅🎄 Frederick

@ merry christmas to you and your family Frederick…i remember you saying you were remodelling your home then went off grid for a while 😀 understandable i admit. I really enjoyed your in depth review of the io 12 as i love mine and appreciate the time and effort to get the review video finished…enjoy your coffee and have a prosperous new year 🎄🎉👍

Thanks for your kind words. 🙏 More reviews are in the planning.

Thanks for watching my review. I'm glad to help out. Well, when connecting an external DAC to the IO-12, you should use the headphones passively, and that might be beneficial if you use a really good DAC/headphone amp. However, then you won't make use of the headphones internal processing and amplification - which I think are tailor-made to make the soundstage as good as possible. Personally, when I use the headphones wired, I have them wired to my laptop or iPhone via USB-C. But, if you already own a good DAP, then do try it out with the IO-12. Please let me know how it works out for you.

Thanks for watching my videos! I will reach out to Dali and ask if they can send me a pair of IO-8 for review. Both the Px8 and IO-12 give emotions when listening to good music. 🎶👍 I have the B&W Pi7 S2 earbuds and they share the same kind of soundstage as the Px8. Chances are the Pi8 does as well, but I haven't listened to them yet.

Thanks for watching my reviews! There is no 'right or wrong' when it comes to making up your own mind about a pair of headphones. Like you point out, listening to a pair of headphones is the most personal sound experience, and what might sound 'great' to me, might not sound 'great' to someone else. That's why I always tell my viewer to properly try out headphones, before making up their mind about which to buy. It's really like trying a pair of jeans, what might fit me perfectly, might not fit you at all. The lower maximum output sound level of the 5909 can be problematic when listening to high-res recordings with lots of dynamics and with a peak level that well below most modern music. Thanks for pointing out the price reduction of the Mark Levinson 5909. I'm sure there are readers that will find it useful. 👍 All the best Frederick

My pleasure, and thanks for watching my review. Most wireless headphones with active noise cancelling will struggle to some extent in heavy wind - due to the fact that the built-in microphones are wind-sensitive.

P7 are fantastic.

I've just gone from Px8 to IO-12, more than double the price but well worth it. Who cares if you look like you have a wardrobe on your head? I'm even warming to the colour.

First, thanks for watching my videos. Much appreciated! I'm going to be frank with you...your comment about how the PX8 sound fresh out of the box is EXACTLY why I keep nagging about the importance of proper burn-in. You are of course entitled to do whatever you want with that information. I've reviewed headphones for close to twenty-five years - for different trade magazines - and it probably took me a year before I realized the importance of proper burn-in. I was reviewing a pair of expensive headphones and they sounded like crap out of the box, and it surprised me. Somewhere in the back of my head, I had heard about the concept of "break in" but as a trained sound engineer, I was taught that all Hi-Fi 'tips' (and tricks) are myths. With nothing to loose, I left the headphones playing music in my studio recording room for a month, and when I listened through them after the "break in" period, they sounded much better. Lesson learned for me. Is it a matter of quality if a pair of headphones sound great straight out of the box? Well, if they do, chances are that the manufacturer has broken them in before shipping. Or the fact that they sound great to begin with. To me, pretty much ALL factory-new audio equipment needs proper 'burn in'. I'm deep into the Hi-Fi swamp now, I know, but when I listen to well-build Hi-Fi equipment that is properly set up, preferably in an acoustically treated listening room - even the smallest differences in sound quality can be detected quite easily. In headphones, the difference in sound quality is even easier to detect, at least to me, because the test situation is pretty much exactly the same - as long as I position the headphones the same way on my head. Another thing that I always mention in my reviews of headphones, is the fact that the headphone listening experience is the most personal listening experience there is. I think it's due to the fact that all heads are different in size and shape, which will make the headphones squeeze differently on everybody, which will affect the low-end frequency response, sometimes quite a bit. All outer ears / pinna are different (read: very different) resulting in possibly slightly different phase response and comb filtering; and the size and shape of the ear canals are different, also resulting in different comb filtering and different frequency impedance response. If you do a mold of your two ear canals, you will see that they are somewhat different in shape and size. Sometimes they can be quite different in size. And not to forget, hearing loss by age and possible hearing damage from prolonged exposure to high sound pressure levels at work. These are just some of the factors that I believe affect your perceived listening experience of a pair of headphones; and it will never stop surprise me how different people can describe the sound of a pair of headphones - identical headphones. So, who's right about the sound quality? All and none! 😉 It's nice to watch KZbin videos and get fed subjective and objective information about a product that you're thinking of buying - I do it all the time. However, in the end, only you can decide if a pair of headphones works for you, and you have to try them out yourself and compare them with a couple of other headphones (like you're currently doing). It's like a pair of new jeans, I can put them on, show them to you on my KZbin channel and talk about all the benefits and describe how nice they fit. But, in the end you won't know if they fit you well until you've tried them on. And you're absolutely right, products are suppose to be for us users, not the other way around. 💪 If the PX8 doesn't 'feel' right to you, I suggest you send them back to the store. All the best Frederick

Well, Mathias, then I would say that you have professional sound engineer ears. 🎶😉 Thanks for your kind words and for watching my videos. Much appreciated! 🙏 Which headphones did you end up with? Cheers Frederick

Glad I could help. 👍

..so I have compared the PX8 to my old pair od Bowers &Wilkins P7 Wireless. Surprising to me, the P7 Wireless sounds incredibly better and clearer at the same volume level. Certainly the P7 wireless cannot be EQ’d and as such I have not EQ’d the PX8’s. The build material on both devices are outstanding. I have had every Bowers & Wilkins headphone, the P7 wireless seems to outshine all. Perhaps worth breaking in the PX8 for the recommend 100hrs. Thanks for engaging with us and providing your analysis.

I suggest at least 500 hours of 'break in' - then do a comparison with your already 'broken in' B&W P7. And, maybe the P7 will still sound better to you, and that's perfectly fine. 👍 All the best Frederick

Glad I could help! How did the PX8 compare with your AirPod Max? I have yet to test the AirPod Max. Cheers Frederick