078 - F-35 Lightning II

[@nooranik21]

Jell-O this episode, the Boneyard and all of F-15 month have been in a class all on their own. You're really improving your craft as a podcast producer.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Kind of you to say, thank you, because I'm still too critical on myself. Appreciate the feedback.

[@crownlands7246]

Sunshine took it home, FP velcro shoulder patch coming up, in merch too?

[@dawtintintaunggoke4451]

ဏႆး? .

[@acidtalons]

Two major call out about this aircraft 1. The lifting, range, speed, overall performance and armament of the B variant blows the harrier out of the water (air?). 2. The B variant turns the marine carriers (brown water/ gatorback navy) into a exponentially more deadly threat that expands the power projection of the navy and allows more planes in more places in the world.

[@gregHames-u6n]

Good comment. I always get frustrated with range. Stealth bags weight penalty ect.

[@voidwalker9223]

I'm surprised there aren't any F-35 youtube trolls/haters/Experts with all their 1000s hours of flight knowledge and Internet researching expressing all the faults the aircraft had during testing and trials. Great interview btw. Love the plane.

[@LRRPFco52]

The moment someone pops up with those types of comments, they must be ready to hear about all the nightmares with the F-14, F-16, F/A-18, & AV-8A/B. Total losses and fatalities with the F-14, AV-8, & F/A-18 are far more than I ever imagined, and I've been studying each of these programs since the 1970s. I was particularly surprised by F/A-18 total losses and fatalities during its first 10 years of service. Last I counted, there were 100 Aircraft losses and 20 fatalities during that time, some just from landing gear issues with a coupling bar that was supposed to keep the MLG wheels aligned. That killed a former Tomcat pilot who was one of the Libyan Sukhoi killers in the 1981 Gulf of Sidra incident.

[@voidwalker9223]

@@LRRPFco52 Difference is the internet was not around at the time for everyone to express their opinions and google random statistics while ignoring certain areas with biased feelings. Not to mention the 1000s upon 1000s of Russian bots and 15 year olds who come on here.

[@nikovlogs9837]

My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.

I can’t help thinking about last time dogfighting was said to be outdated. B- and C-variants not having a gun sure feels ominous...

[@demanischaffer]

@ Remember, US Navy and Marine corps Phantoms never carried internal guns, and at least for the Navy they never carried gunpods. US Navy Phantoms relied 100% on missiles and proper maintence-training

[@johnboyxoxo]

The way that I can wrap my mind around just how much data the F-35 can get and share, is that it can basically be its own little AWACS if it needs to.

[@mcmoose64]

As an Australian this is a case of deja vu. I am just old enough to remember the sh*t fight / cluster f**K that was the F111 procurement . The F111 also pioneered cutting edge technology and despite the early problems , it turned out to be the finest strike aircraft of its generation .

[@derekcraig3617]

They also called the VAUNTED F16 'The Law Dart' during its development phase... Thanks for the great perspective mate!

[@slartybarfastb3648]

F-14 had many issues deep into it's development and operational history. The F-4U Corsair ended up mostly flying from runways instead of carriers, yet still had a stellar carreer all the way into the Korean War. P-38 Lightning had a bad reputation early on for killing pilots after engine failures. So many top fighters have had teething problems.

[@gregHames-u6n]

Wow. You are reading my mind. F-111F was a beast. If anyone wants to get close to something that is too big to fly, go to an air show or museum and look at it. I was 22 yrs.old and it changed my whole mindset.

[@gregHames-u6n]

​@@slartybarfastb3648I loved the Tomcat and It's large too. Full disclosure. Top -Gun was not even a thing when it kicked me.

[@GlideYNRG]

Thankyou JellO for another fascinating insight to the F-35. Really drives home that it’s not just another next gen aircraft but how we are evolving to next gen tactics and next gen pilots. The fact that people have created their careers around it speaks volumes. Can’t wait to see one in the flesh here in Oz.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

“Game changer” seems to be a commonly used phrase.

[@nullterm]

As soon as I saw the thumbnail/title, my heart rate jumped. Desperate to hear more about it from people that actually fly it.

[@julietlima5564]

Another one out of the ballpark. I enjoy every episode. I after the F-22 episode (my favorite one because the F-22 is my favorite modern fighter aircraft), I was waiting so long for this episode to come a long.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Hope it was worth the wait!

[@LRRPFco52]

The single engine requirement was not driven by the JSF-B variant. Single engine requirement was driven by mass production plans for the Hi-LO mix of F-22s and F-35s in the same way we did the F-15/F-16 Hi-Lo production scaling. You aren't building over 3100 JSFs with a twin-engine design. Single engine comes from the various USAF, USMC, Royal Navy, and US Navy programs that coalesced into the 3 JSF variants. Some of these programs date back to the early 1980s including JAST, ASTOVL, SSF, CALF, and NATF. The USAF Common Affordable Lightweight Fighter program was always a single engine, and had nothing to do with STOVL or lift fans. We're well over 500 JSF variants produced today because it's a single engine, and most of those are F-35As.

[@jameshewitt8828]

Soon as i heard about his sight issues I thought of the catchphrase from another KZbin military aviator "Make them tell you no"

[@edgarmedcalf8233]

C.W Lemoine!

[@Klyce]

Ayyy thats Lemoine!

[@lancet.346]

TOMCATS!

[@chopper7352]

..."Mover"

[@colonelkurtz2269]

David Fravor too

[@AviationPlus]

This was awesome it is good to hear about the F35 being a maintainer on an F22 here at Edwards. I have a few people who used to work on the F35 and are here now and they tell me about the sensor fusion about the F35. Always love listening to those. Loved the video looking forward to more .

[@rusher2937]

Can't wait to fly it in BMS, eh?

[@AviationPlus]

@@rusher2937 I am always wanting to fly in BMS!!

[@grvbbsmusic]

I am 2A3X5B

[@AviationPlus]

@@grvbbsmusic 2A375 "A" Originally F22s now I am AFOTEC at Nellis for the F35s. I am currently learning about the aircraft and ALIS it is very interesting comparing it with the 22.

[@grvbbsmusic]

@@AviationPlus ah God ol *cough* Alice *cough*

[@christiangruetter4832]

Outstanding episode, Vincent! Great guest with so much to tell about the F-35. Thought I already knew quite a lot about the jet but I‘ve learned many new things and understand others much better now. Thanks also for the extra length! Really great content

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome.

[@LRRPFco52]

The volume of information openly available on the F-35 surprises me really. Most of what I've seen should never have seen the light of day, but I think all the negative press has pushed people to talk and release more and more info that can cumulatively be compiled to paint an extremely detailed picture of what it is, and what it is capable of. Lower classification was part of the program because they simply would not be able to develop and test it like they have, had they been under the same restrictions as the HAVE BLUE and SENIOR TREND programs.

[@Anderson_Hwang]

The Roosevelt CO Captain Crozier did a phenomenal job that will never be forgotten I heard that he is also infected by COVID-19, hope he recovers soon !

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Correct. We exchanged texts recently--he is laying low for now.

[@TitusFFM]

The first sailer from the aircraft carrier died from covic 19. The captain did his best to protect his people. It's so sad it could be so much avoid but no. Congratulations pentagon killing your own is a proud tradition of you.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@TitusFFM There are a lot of considerations about public info access to the status of a deployed carrier, more than just the welfare of the crew. Not to say the welfare of the crew is trivial, but military personnel safety and the mission are always in competition with each other, and the mission finds a way of extracting its pound of flesh on a regular basis just with accidents, let alone combat operations.

[@team2sick850]

Man I love hearing all this success coming from different people in the same settings. Thank you again for this awesome podcast.

[@slyfer5321]

I'm excited for AWACS podcasts.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Hope you don't mind waiting.

[@slammerf16]

@@FighterPilotPodcast harsh! Those AWACS guys must work their butts off!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

@@slammerf16 Oh, I didn't mean they're not important but rather that we don't have a guest lined up yet. The problem of the written word is it lacks the non-verbal accompaniment that provides additional meaning.

[@slammerf16]

@@FighterPilotPodcast ah sorry! Well, I'll be waiting too. Keep up the great work! Thank you for your great podcasts

[@archer8492]

Really fascinating episode. The 'F-35 cost saga' has been a long-running feature in the media in the UK too, especially given the government's decision to retire the Harrier in 2010, leaving the Fleet Air Arm with no jets until the F-35 entered service. Great interview with Cinco, and cool to hear Chip back as well, I'd be very happy to hear more from either of them - or maybe both on the same interview, since they know each other!

[@dereklchung]

Fantastic episode. Glad you asked the hard questions too.

[@MrCashewkitty]

One of your podcasts just popped up in my feed out of nowhere. I'm glad that they did, I've been binge listening all day

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Welcome!

[@hockey3761]

Another amazing podcast. I really like how the show is longer. Allows topics to get a little more fleshed out rather then just a bullet point description. X/Y planes would also be very interesting. Curious to hear how pilots felt about canards on an F-15 for example, if they felt it would have been useful or if the pros werent enough to field them.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

My guess is the latter, otherwise F-15s would have them.

[@michaelreed1380]

Another great show, Sir! Appreciate yours and your guest's time for doing these.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome, Michael.

[@stevelikesrhino]

"The only fighter you'll ever need"

[@Beretta249]

"All designs are tradeoffs."

[@nickinportland]

Lol “the most expensive and jacked up fighter ever made”

[@timtec3000]

To make Lockheed money. It's a pile of shit.

[@Karl-Benny]

Thats why the US air force is buying more F-15 and want a new F-16

[@jaynicew]

@@Karl-Benny But isn’t the F35 Destroying F15s and 16s at Red Flag each month?!🥴

[@D0cJekyll]

Definitely walking around making sure he didn't provide any data that DOJ may not want out. Great job balancing information vs keeping the capabilities OPSEC.

[@justinsublett5880]

Love this podcast and love your service to the country.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks, Justin. 🤜🤛

[@omally]

Chip: “Hope the listeners aren’t getting of me…” Dude, no way! You’re a hero 🇺🇸

[@clericneokun]

Being a civilian who just enjoys learning about military aviation, the way pilots describe how the F35 cockpit systems operate feels like it would be a joy to fly in a VR flight sim.

[@flightvector]

Jell-O, I must say that as an aerospace engineer, your comments on how prototype aircraft are really just proof of concepts and pretty distant from an actual product is scratching the surface of a lot of lesser known insights behind the conception of aircraft (which often result in inaccurate criticisms by enthusiasts). Being from the civilian aircraft world, I've seen this fact alone catch many people off guard. I feel like it would be really interesting to have an engineer involved in military aircraft development add some insight on a show sometime.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Hope to eventually, xbird22, just need to find the right guest.

[@lancet.346]

GOOD DEAL DAVE! Always cool to hear from him. And it was nice to hear about Sunshine. I hope everyone out there is doing well.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Everyone I've talked to is hanging in there, Lance. 👍

[@sharoncassell9358]

I'm impressed at how the sequence in which you arrange interviews. The F22 followed by F35. I always wondered about these aircraft. I worked on C 141A&B in USAF 1979 - 84. I only dealt with A10 F104 F111 in airplane mechanic training at Sheppard Air base Wichita Falls TX. Always wondered about the newer F18 , 22 & F35. Thank you for all the enlightenment. I have had slight interaction with test pilots but not in such detail.

[@VimyScout]

So glad the UK also has the F-35 👌

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

Israel has proven the F-35 is an extremely dangerous opponent :). I'd say the controversy about its performance has been practically settled.

[@LRRPFco52]

@Till This Day UK has been a co-developer of JSF tech from the start, especially the B variant. UK did most of the baseline digital flight control system work for STOVL with the VAAC Harrier, which transferred over to the X-35B. They even had UK test pilots in the X-35B program, and a continuous stream of test pilots jointly collaborating with the JSF test centers all over the US. F-35B with Meteor is way overkill unfair advantage in A2A. Working in conjunction with Typhoons loaded with Meteors makes a lot of sense as the UK continues to integrate the capabilities of both aircraft types. Penetrating JSF providing guidance for Meteors launched from Typhoons is a brutal capability to consider.

[@reallyhappenings5597]

Stumbles into ROTC --> casually becomes elite test pilot for revolutionary fighter

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Right?

[@Guysm1l3y]

Great interview and oh my god his callsign story had me in stitches!

[@LRRPFco52]

Imagine what the Aggressor pilot was thinking, especially as he was listening while watching him wing rock and dispensing flares. Hilarious!

[@ARIXANDRE]

Seems like a lot of the controversy surrounding the development and capabilities of the F-35 have died down.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

True.

[@hawkmilitary10]

@Kaizaro123 Sprey was essentially involved in drawing up specifications for the F-16 back when it was the Red Bird program. Red Bird had no radar except one for the gunsight. It was a purely guns and heaters aircraft, what the F-16 eventually became was not at all what he envisioned. It is also worth noting he was hardly an aeronautical engineer. NAVAIRSYSCOM wrote this after he presented them with a ridiculous proposal for VF-XX. "common with past papers by the same author, this study contains many fallacious assumptions, half-truths, distortions, and erroneous extrapolations. Unsubstantiated opinions are presented as facts. Any rebuttals give the appearance of arguments against the rudimentary virtues of simplicity, high performance,and low cost." (Michel III, 124).

[@nunogomes2476]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Except with german Eurofighter pilots who , after an exercice with the USAF, described the F-35 as a one turn fighter...they said «it falls out of the sky like a piano»...10 BFM engagements...germans win 8 with 2 inconclusive...F-35 wins none...

[@yxeaviationphotog]

Opponents here in Canada are still basing their arguments on old data. It's maddening!

[@ARIXANDRE]

@@yxeaviationphotog after listening to the podcast twice, I felt the guest is mostly trying to defend the aircraft more than praising it. Jello's questions are pretty good, pressing the guest without being unpolite. I don't think old school Jello was that impressed with the 3 variants or the easy-to-fly nature of the F-35.

[@dentonator96]

Great guest, really enjoyed that. I have been binge listening to this channel. Missing my Navy days.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks. Cinco is the bomb!

[@johnp2110]

23:47 x-32 The flying Grouper fish. Great episode! Thanks.

[@RaidsEpicly]

I think what Jello says at 1:09:52 also kind of explains the pushback the F35 gets from some older fighter pilots and some of the public, it just feels wrong to some that the future of fighters is more layers of abstraction and software between the human and the actual aircraft.

[@LRRPFco52]

I remember senior USAF F-4E pilots attitude towards the F-15 and F-16. "We can carry AIM-9L now too!" Senior pilots often don't have the option to convert because the military has calculated how much money it will take to send them to fighter conversion training, compared that with how much time they have left in service for their pay grade, and determined that it isn't worth it. Many of them know this down inside, so it's hard to have anything good to say about the new technology they wish they could fly that brand new 20-something-old Lieutenants will be flying for the next 10-18 years of their careers. The few that actually get to keep flying that then get in the new fighters realize how many lessons learned have been applied to the new jets, and how much more capable it makes them as the re-learn how to use better systems. There are some excellent pilot perspectives from guys that flew F-100s, A-37s, and A-7Ds who converted to the F-16A. Also, guys who got into Hornets as nuggets while all their seniors were A-7E drivers that converted to the F/A-18A/C who still treated the Hornet like an A-7E with how they ran their mission profiles, ignored the sensor capabilities in A2A, and missed out on at least 20 more A2A intercepts in Desert Storm as a result. The biggest complaints from fighter pilots about 4th Gen cockpits is the excess workload associated with having to manage the radar modes, altitude bands, ranging bands, and azimuth, while looking at the HUD, then back to the radar, then over at the RWR, then back to the radar, then back to the HUD, and fuse that information into their imagination in order to form a relevant 3D picture of what was happening in front of them. They would develop a cyclical scanning sequence of these sensors that is critical to performing an intercept, all while manning the comms aspect of it with their mates, much of which was hand signals from really close formation flying so they didn't broadcast omni-directional RF into the EMCON environment. Nobody misses that type of man-machine interface after getting in the F-35. Dating back to the 1970s at least, fighter pilots said it would be great if they could have that information and sensor interface in a wide FOV helmet. They started designing and testing that type of system with the AFTI F-16 in 1978, with initial aircraft configuration delivered in 1980. The AFTI F-16 HMTDS slaved the FLIR pods and radar to the pilot's reticle in the helmet. It also had voice commands and interface with a large library of phrases and words, but was sensitive and unreliable due to specific voice attenuation of the pilot under greater than 1G conditions. Every pilot who fell in love with their F-15, F-16, or F/A-18 that has converted to the F-35 wonders how they got anything done before with those antiquated cockpit arrangements. Even F-22 pilots wish they had F-35 cockpit architecture, but you can't fit a large helmet in the Raptor's canopy dimensions, so they're getting a monocle-based reticle system comparable to some of the capabilities of JHMCS, but still have to clip-on NODs. F-35 HMD has a Night Vision camera embedded in the forehead of the helmet, so there is no need to mess with clip-on aviator's NVDs. Every problem you see with the 4th Gen fighters, you see elegant and highly-integrated solutions in the JSF, with greater reliability of those systems.

[@EEEEEEE354]

I have been waiting for this!

[@shaunroberts9361]

This was just outstanding.

[@bjjace1]

Great episode

[@777Outrigger]

I've read that in Red Flag 17-1, the F-35 often entered into a visual fight, but did so on it's own terms and it always entered in an advantageous position. In other words, it ambushed. It did so because of it's vastly superior Situational Awareness that it got from it's sensors, sensor fusion, and stealth. ..... As top WWII German ace Erich Hartmann said, "He who sees first has already half the victory." .... Hartmann, like other WWII aces did not like to dogfight and developed tactics to avoid it. If you enter a visual fight in an equal position with the other fighter, your tactics suck, especially in an F-35.

[@pizzaman5169]

In a real dogfight, ambushing another plane is about the only way it has a chance of winning. It's not designed to be a dogfighter. It doesn't have the agility to fight in a close up dogfight. In a situation like that, it's a dead dog, a $120 million coffin.

[@777Outrigger]

@@pizzaman5169 Like Erich Hartmann all other top aces developed ambush tactics and avoided dogfights. Dogfights are dangerous and low-yielding endeavors. ...... And if you think the F-35 is a bad dogfighter, well that's been debunked too ..Here's a little diddy from Erich himself. "I never cared much for dogfight. I would never dogfight with the Russians . Get the highest altitude and if possible come out of the sun…. Ninety percent of my attacks were surprise attacks. If I had a success I took a coffee break and watched the area again. Finding the enemy depended purely on being where the action was on the ground and on visual look out. Ground stations called us by radio indicating the position of the enemy by a coordinate system on our maps…………………. If I covered the sky I preferred a full power attack, sun attack from below because you could spot the enemy from very far against the white cloudy sky. The pilot who sees the other first has already half of the victory…………………………………… The second step of my tactic was the point of decision, that is you see the enemy first and you decide to attack immediately or to wait for a better situation or maneuver to gain a better position or not to attack at all .' To repeat from above 'Ninety percent of my attacks were surprise attacks" "The pilot who sees the other first has already half of the victory" It's how they'll fight the F-35 with the advantage of high-tech that Hartmann did with tactics without the high-tech.

[@pizzaman5169]

@@777Outrigger SMH ! In WWII they had no cockpit radar. They still flew seat of your pants tactics. With today's sensors, the odds of any sneaking are greatly diminished. Do you think an F-35 can take on an F-22? or Russia's new planes? The old out of the sun tactic of the Japanese Air Force is null & void.

[@777Outrigger]

@@pizzaman5169 The F-35 is rarely detected in exercises, and I know that the F-35 has flown against fighters with the most recent AESA radars. It's called stealth. and stealth combined with Electronic Warfare, when needed, is doubly deadly. .... but it's usually not needed. The F-35 will see you first,, which means you die.

[@pizzaman5169]

@@777Outrigger A big problem with the plane is that they want it to do too much. It can never replace the planes they hope it can & do the proper job for which ever iteration of the F-35 they want. If the F-35 comes up against a fighter in the vain of the Raptor, kiss it goodbye. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYfCl3yIidKZkLc

[@jasonsong86]

Comprehensive information regarding the F-35 variances as well as their capabilities. Fascinating stories about "Cinco" regarding how he became a fighter pilot. Becoming a test pilot was one of my dreams but I am definetly too old for that now. It's always fun to listen to other people's stories and pretend to live the lives they have lived.

[@RaidsEpicly]

It's interesting to me that a lot of people dislike the F-35 for trying to do everything, but the F/A-18 is one of the most beloved US aircraft partially because it's multirole.

[@LRRPFco52]

We haven't built a single role fighter since the F-15C. The F-16, F/A-18, and F-15E have all been multirole. The F-22A and F-35 are better described as Omnirole, since they add continuous ISR, networked AWACS, VLO penetration and intercept, and Offensive Electronic Warfare.

[@mississippirebel1409]

LRRPFco52 - Actually the F-16 was designed as air superiority day fighter. It was until later the air force realized it's multi role capability. The F-15E is just a F-15C that has been buffed up to turn it into the a multi role fighter. So basically the only purpose built multi role fighters that US have produce are the F-18 and F-35. The F-22 is still pretty much only an air superiority fighter with very limited air to ground capability. I believe the F-22 can only carry the SDB's (small diameter bomb). But it would be a waste of the F-22 to use it for air to ground missions when there are so many other aircraft that could do the job as well or better.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@mississippirebel1409 I lived through all this, so I'll share what I saw happen from the perspective of being very close to the program. The YF-16 was designed as a day Lightweight Fighter. The USAF had more interest in a single engine replacement for its F-4 & A-7D fleet as an attack aircraft that could self-escort and defend itself if necessary, since they already had the F-15A to focus on air superiority. Even before they went into F-16 production, the USAF requested General Dynamics to increase the airframe size, TOGW, and expand its Air-to-ground capabilities as a priority, while not expanding the A2A weapons beyond the existing M61 & AIM-9. This was done with the F-16 Full Scale Development (FSD) birds. As they worked the FSD F-16s, those A2G capes quickly evolved in the mid-late 1970s and were incorporated into the production F-16A Blocks 1 & 5. The main system that added A2A capability in the FSD Vipers and production F-16As was the addition of the APG-66 Fire Control Radar. This allowed a flight of F-16s to have some limited BVR SA, without a BVR missile until much later in the F-16C (with the APG-68/AIM-120 combo).

[@LRRPFco52]

@@mississippirebel1409 The F-15E has some important airframe and powerplant differences, as well as landing gear, radar, cockpits, and avionics. It's quite different from the F-15C. Was also very close to that program when my dad did JDAM integration on the Mud Hen. F-22A Block 30s and above carry 1000lb JDAMs and SDB I, with significant A2G expanded capes with radar ground-mapping and other relevant upgrades for the precision penetration strike mission set. It is a very capable strike platform in a high density IADS net, that can pivot into aerial raping and networked Airborne Warning & Control platform.

[@JameBlack]

There is a lot of negativity about F35, because of foreign propaganda

[@Talon3000]

Now that germany apparently is interested in this plane again I listened to this episode out of sequence and I'm pleased to say: I had doubts about this plane but they're mainly gone. Sounds like an awesome platform and a appropriate replacement for our venerable Panavia Tornado fleet.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

There’s another F-35 episode in our catalog; check that one out too.

[@Talon3000]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Nice, i'll put it on the list :D

[@hernandojimenez5102]

Excelente podcast, if Colonel "Cinco" can fly as well as he speaks, then we're all in great shape and I have no doubt that we have the best Airforce in the world, may God bless America; thank you for your service!👏🙏🇺🇲

[@paralleler]

I did a web search on the F-35 Distributed Aperture System and found a Northrop Grumman demo of it at the 2016 Farnborough Airshow on KZbin. Very interesting... Many thanks!

[@brellnob]

Formed up on the enemies wing. Lol

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thank goodness it was only training! 🤪

[@Thanekay]

brellfan with flare lol

[@D0cJekyll]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Although I guess it depends because you aren't gonna reform on a burning smoke ploom.

[@DeltaEntropy]

A. I. If you form up on a Mig you’ve got bigger problems than not knowing where lead is.

[@scum-scum]

Formed on a dead enemy's wing, no less. What a boss! xD

[@Topgunphoto]

OMG, that callsign story is a riot!

[@EnvyCT9A]

Hey just listened to the podcast and I liked your comparison with GCAS to racing car drivers because, as a simmer, its something that has extreme similarities to what you're talking there. There is a certain cadre of drivers who believe people who use tools like Traction and ABS to be inferior drivers, same as in flight sim when people prefer planes with a FCS (Hornet, Viper) than those without (Tomcat). If you have a look at endurance categories in motor racing such as Le Mans, GT3 and so on the majority of those fields specifically make use of driver aids due the strain it all has on the driver. To minutely manage the nature of the car at 200-300kmh for hours at a time, wheel to wheel against other cars at the same speed time is huge and we saw just how deadly that was in old school F1. Even in F1 all the engineering is geared towards making the car smoother and easier to drive, as thats how you go faster. Really loved this episode as this is a hugely misunderstood aircraft and I loved the comment of having more information than an AWACS. Thats huge for the average joe as generally the civilian population sees the AWACS as the cornerstone of aircombat and probably the best way to go about just quantifying how advanced the jet is. Keep up the good work and stay safe during these uncertain times.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks very much, EnvyC. My analogies sometimes fall flat but that one seemed to work. I appreciate the feedback.

[@krissobieski4341]

I love that you bring up the lessons of Vietnam, how the era of the dogfight was thought to be over too soon. I also feel another lesson from that conflict I take away is: the enemy is not going to fight on your terms. Of course the F-35 makes the technology of the Vietnam era look primitive, but that does not change the fact that the US is investing A LOT in wars going the way they envision them, yet the track record shows a determined foe will not fight to our strengths, but look to subvert them. The over reliance on technology is starting to be a weakness that I fear many young Americans don't even recognize as a weakness because it has always been a source of strength for their whole lives.

[@rustyreese4006]

It depends. As more countries develop their own 5th gen platforms the more our headstart into this arena becomes important. Currently both Russia and China have stealth programs that are way behind the US but will improve with time. The US has a jump on this because of the length of time that they have been operating stealth technology. This also means that they have been working on ways to counter it. So not necessarily a weakness, and like they said in the podcast. The F 35 wasn't ever designed for visual range engagement with other aircraft, and the ir base sensor system is not only useful for sams, but could definitely spot aircraft that are trying to get close enough to engage it. The 35 is more of a huge link in the data chain than anything else, and when you have the entire picture of the combat space you have a huge advantage.

[@Bobcatflyfish]

The F-35 is in several movies, including Live Free or Die Hard (F-35B), Green Lantern (F-35A), and the Avengers

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Very true Josh, thanks for the list!

[@lawminx6213]

Very informative chat on the state of the art. Thanks, Jell-o.

[@ftc9258]

Always love your show. Thanks so much for yet another great episode. Many of us recall the incident with the Japanese F-35A went down during the night training. I wonder the version already had the GCAS installed. RIP the young pilot. BTW, did Jello forget to mention Japan being one of those nations got the A model? If I were not mistaking, there is also a talk about getting the B model as well.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Entirely possible that I missed that point, and many others.

[@doncalypso]

Oh yes... this episode will definitely be an *ORGANIC* experience better than those Herbal Essences commercials!

[@weekendjail1417]

Thanks Cinco

[@cahilroberson]

31:15 did he say 181 rounds I might have misinterpreted but I relitsened multiple time and hear 181 everytime. 181 is really low ammo count.

[@frederf3227]

Pretty similar to AV-8B 25mm gun, like 2/3rds? F-35 has some fancy rate of fire management to try to be more efficient with it.

[@md8590]

Great episode, the longer the better! Changed my perception on the f35! I guess as a taxpayer I kind of own a few so glad it's a good jet.

[@charlesbukowski9836]

These pilots know its career suicide to talk bad about the 35.. the 35 is garbage...

[@rustyreese4006]

@@charlesbukowski9836 so you're saying that these guys don't have a problem flying junk with their lives on the line? I think they would have found a way to get it out if what you say is true. The reports I have heard about the problems are very suspect however, from people that either have an agenda or just trying to get attention.

[@christianarboleda7872]

David berke would be a great guest for the topic of SAMs

[@kenhelmers2603]

Very cool - thanks Cinco for sharing your views. Thanks Jell-O

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome, Ken.

[@sharoncassell9358]

I stumbled into this channel after 74 gear and Mentour pilot. It is dynamic & informative and welcome. I appreciate how you guys compared it with video games & sim. The sequence is amazing . Sunshine then Cinco...Thank you. Continue.

[@gregory.chalenko]

Well done, commenting on difference in aesthetics between F-35 and X-32! It takes a lot of self-composure not to use such words as "hideous" and "awkward" in combination with the latter :-D Andrey Tupolev, one of the leading Soviet aircraft designers, once said: "Only good-looking airplanes can fly well". Not that F-35 is the best looking American jet fighter, but it clearly won the beauty category of the contest!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Well, I'm hoping to remain on the good graces of the company that designed the X-32 😉

[@gregory.chalenko]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Hahaha, I thought so!

[@AverageSubscriber17]

Cinco was our previous commander. Really fun guy.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

No doubt. 👍

[@michawicherski9247]

Hey Jell-O! Just like to say that indeed you are getting better and better with every episode (not that you ever were lacking...) so if you are still critical towards your job with podcast then all I can say is that it is very undeserved criticism. I think you could easily have your own radio show on a big radio station and no one would complain. And by the way: how could anyone have enough of Chip!? This man is a gem! Love the episode, simply ADORE the podcast...

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thank you, Michal. By self-criticism I simply always want to do better than I did. Perhaps not a bad thing in healthy doses.

[@mxcollin95]

Awesome podcast! 🤙

[@morsinimicis8737]

Great callsign story.

[@mikekopack6441]

The software issues were largely because all previous aircraft had their software written in ADA which has a lot of built in checks and balances. The problem is the pool of available ADA programmers is nearly none these days, so they went with C++... Anyone who knows software development knows that C++ is super powerful, but it's also super dangerous - it gives you all the power to shoot yourself in the head if you aren't careful. It's very easy to write code that breaks and crashes the entire computer with C++. So it takes a TON of discipline when writing code in C++ to make it solid. It took them time to get the development effort rigorous and disciplined enough to overcome the issues they were having.

[@commercio3564]

Finally. Been waiting for this.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Hope it was worth the wait!

[@Dragon029]

1:17:55 The LtCol accidentally understated the planned lifespan of the jet/program by a couple decades - the USAF currently intends to operate F-35s for more than 50 years into the future, with the last US F-35 planned to retire in 2077. The USAF also currently plans to procure its last F-35 in 2044. Naturally these dates are very subject to change, but so far they've only been moving further into the future.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Good to know!

[@mobiuszero1018]

I was waiting for this for SO long! And one little nitpick:In the users that fly the F-35,you forgot Japan. Other than that,I needed this right now,thanks!

[@toprob20]

If we're nitpicking. The US is the only user of the F-35C. While aside from the Brits, the Italians and Japanese also bought the F-35B. Which is interesting because they want to fly them from their DDH's. While Korea wants to fly F-35B's presumably from their Dokdo and/or the future LPH they are planning. And Singapore also wants F-35B's for it's dispersed operations capabilities because they will only operate from 2 airbases in the future.

[@bobthompson4319]

The end speed thing is hard for some because you have to get to a certain altitude then nose down to accelerate to a certain speed then nose up to a certain altitude then up down up down kind of thing. That was what a pilot said about I think the F-4 to mach 2.

[@mimimimeow]

imagine being cross-eyed for hours.. no wonder Cinco is sick for days. even in consumer VR systems, it is strongly recommended for the user to set the VR to the correct interpupillary distance. wrong settings can seriously mess up your brain..

[@AsG_4_]

@5:40 ... the end of the day their on the same team 🤝

[@bobthompson4319]

In a hover it's so easy to fly it's crazy. To go down push stick forward up pull back if you decrease power it won't let you go down to fast and slam into the deck to go left or right push the stick. Simple and great. I could easily be wrong.

[@bobthompson4319]

One thing I think is a major HUGE advantage for it is that the F-35 piolet can see everywhere no matter what if the other guy comes from 6 o'clock low he can still be seen and In any other aircraft no one can see 6 o'clock low (behind and under) the F-22 probably can also see 6 o'clock low. The DAS and helmet makes it have a HUGE advantage

[@mikekopack6441]

F-22 nope. Can't see 6 low. Doesn't have the DAS nor the helmet.

[@slyfer5321]

What an awesome story of his callsign.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

😎

[@bulldog282]

Eye opening!!!!

[@samivwow]

Notoriety: The F-35 was in Battlefield 2, which is a game from 2005. It was also in the Green Lantern, which is from 2011

[@slyfer5321]

I hate it that you don't have at least a million subscribers.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

We don't spend much effort (or money) on promoting the show. Figure word will get out eventually.

[@yxeaviationphotog]

I honestly we get these here in Canada. It's the best and frankly, only choice to replace our CF-18s.

[@nullterm]

If the big bugs are all ironed out and the cost is down, then I'd be all for it. Glad we aren't in the beta testers.

[@yxeaviationphotog]

@@nullterm But bugs have been ironed out for the most part and cost per aircraft is already down.

[@mviking39]

What Americans are capable of is simple amazing. So many high IQ people working together

[@patrickchase5614]

LtCol Hamilton describes turning 90 degrees to evade a potential incoming missile threat... Is that a form of beaming, i.e. flying into the opposing radar's doppler notch? If so, is that only effective when the missile is looking down, or does it have more general utility?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You'll forgive us for not answering your question.

[@patrickchase5614]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Yep, I realized that after I'd posted. I know you can't comment, but after thinking about it I realized that it would probably work from all relative altitudes against anything that depends on CW illumination.

[@superskullmaster]

I could have sworn we already had the F-35 on the podcast. Maybe I’m thinking of one of the others I listen to.

[@gregory.chalenko]

Exactly my thought! :-D But I think this impression comes from the fact that F-35 has been mentioned a lot in other episodes: F-22, 4th gen vs 5th gen, listeners' questions etc.

[@LRRPFco52]

There was a very brief Aircrew Interview British F-35B pilot interview.

[@J.3000]

Very informative episode. Wondering if current UAV platforms are sufficient to replace the majority of manned A/G missions over current low intensity conflicts..

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

I think a person on scene can do a better job supporting troops on the ground in dynamic conditions.

[@rustyreese4006]

I think we are a long way away from drones doing CAS missions. Now as far as strikes against other ground targets we are very close.

[@EstorilEm]

Funny about mentioning lack of tanks - I’m pretty sure as-designed, the first TWO inboard wing stations are capable of carrying fuel tanks. I don’t think these are usually implemented, but the aircraft is definitely capable.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

I believe they do that mostly for ferry missions, like crossing oceans

[@rtlamb]

Ha! Funny! As an ex-Boeing employee, you were way too kind to the X-32!! That thing never had a chance. Never!

[@sharoncassell9358]

Its 2023 now. Glad y'all made it through. Keep up the good work.

[@Obi1-KenBone-Me]

Ever planned to make a podcast about mig21 lancer ?

[@klaojaju]

What do you think of the information provided by General Hostage that F35 RCS is smaller than F22?

[@F22raptor46]

Woohoo! FINALLY!!

[@finixhawkeye3213]

If we see over spending. Take FA18. It was originally fighting for the F16 slot but lost. The navy took it due to two engines and then developed it. It's a aircraft that started from Tomcat times. But out lived the Tomcat by becoming the Super Hornet. I miss the Tomcat. ❤️

[@stealthtallyfox7210]

you kinda skipped that each F-35 variants have some slight performance difference, F-35A have 9G limit and have slightly over 1:1 thrust to weight ratio in air to air internal load only, F-35B with it's heavy lift fan system have worse T2W ratio and 7-7.5G limit, while F-35C have similar T2W ratio and G limit to F-35B. Also, I don't mind helping for the YF stuff, there are a few things that many people would love to find out about Northrop YF-23 and GE YF120 Variable Cycle Engine, or maybe the potential YF-12

[@orlock20]

Angle of attack use to be important in dog fighting because of the capability of the weapon system. In WW 2, the enemy fighter had to be in front of the attacking aircraft and at a certain range since the machine guns were tilted slightly toward the propeller. When missiles were introduced, the target could be 15 degrees away from the front of the aircraft. In the 1990s, some missiles allowed the target to be 90 degrees away from the aircraft. Once the targeting ability gets to 180 degrees, then the fighter can fly straight and send a missile to any target around it.

[@scoobydoodandy4296]

This guy is awesome. "Yeah, didn't really know what I wanted to do, They said they could waive the eyesight requirements and I could fly "Azrael" the angel of death!"

[@ComradeAndrej]

Great episode, always fun to learn about the latest tech. One thing though, you always mention the F-117 as a successful airplane, yet it seems to me that if we managed to down it in '99 with obsolete Soviet S-125M (nato desig. SA-3) with the crews that couldn't scan with the ground radars for longer then 20-30 seconds, I can only imagine how it would fare to the Russian, Chinese or some other big countries anti-air systems. Can't remember the name of the fellow in F-117 episode who said that it was designed to penetrate deep into enemy lines and engage ground targets or even try to down enemy AVACSes. Regarding the F-35, it would be great to hear what is the cost of maintaining it in comparison to F-17 or F-18. Typhoon is a great aircraft but it's so complicated and expensive to maintain it that it's a real logistical and monetary nightmare for smaller countries to have it. P.S. Please get Israeli pilots on the pod if you can, would be great to hear the stories about their challenges during the wars with the Arabs and even the ones flying over Syria these days since the Syrians have solid ground to air defense with the BUK and Pantsir system they got from the Russian federation. Again, great episode and great channel, greetings.

[@IntrusiveThot420]

ComradeAndrej well, remember about the F-117 shootdown, the pilots had been flying the same route for an extended period of time. So the radar operator already knew where to look. Plus, getting shot down ONCE only? That's incredibly good for going up against full IADS.

[@ComradeAndrej]

@@IntrusiveThot420 Well yes, only once, but still it flew mission only versus very much inferior enemies. That is why I say it doesn't seem to me that it could do what it was designed to versus Russia, China, Israel, France, UK, etc... Also afaik, it didn't flew any more combat mission afterwards (maybe I'm wrong on this, it's something I heard, not confirmed).

[@ComradeAndrej]

@Boogieman I was not at all saying F-35 is bad, or compairing the two. I was just saying that Iraqi and Serbian air defense is awful compared to what F-117 was built to attack.

[@ComradeAndrej]

@Boogieman Survivability vs two air defenses who cannot try to fully utilize their radar systems because 100+ birds are in the sky waiting to launch HARMs. I emphasised that it's pointless to count very weak nations because it was made for something else. If it was indeed made to penetrate weak nation defense systems, then it's great.

[@ComradeAndrej]

@neil u The one that got the reactor died in 2003.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

Does the F-35 scare Russia and China? Why is it so difficult for the layman to understand how much of an advantage the F-35 has over Gen 4-4.5 fighters?

[@SpicyTrifongo]

I think the layman has looked at our military ventures since the Gulf of Tonkin incident and thought "we got drones and we don't need the fanciest tools to play king maker in some impoverished country" but that's probably just me projecting.

[@orlock20]

No, unless the F-35 can shoot down nuclear missiles. These aircraft may scare Iran though.

[@jaynicew]

@@orlock20 Yeah okay!!! That’s why China copied the h*ll out of the F35 on their designs

[@cojoe99]

Jello and BVR Listeners - GREAT INTERVIEW! You really have to be a student/geek of aerospace to sorta read between the lines of the interview. Since the F-35 is such a software centric airframe, the capabilities of this aircraft may well be endless... in ‘theory’, all it would take is an aerospace + and software engineer to collaborate on an idea to make it a reality in future block improvements. And I’ll leave it at that...

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Fair enough. Thanks.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

Regarding drivers being opposed to car safety devices most of that is because for a long time those safety devices were more dangerous than not having them (early airbags are an obvious one) and even now some are actually dangerous even though it is not widely known, for example 3 point seatbelts unless theyre properly adjusted which no one ever does load all of the impact force into your neck and cause whiplash and pressure injuries snd things of that nature.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Makes sense.

[@DUBEE43]

Why are most fighter pilots GOOD LOOKING!!!!🛩

[@Beretta249]

Clean food and exercise.

[@anngo4140]

They have to be fit and healthy.

[@mal15102]

I flew fighters for 20 years and the only good looking I can claim is having 20 20 vision.

[@maryrafuse3851]

I'm pleased Canada has chosen 88 of the F-35 block IV. The RCAF wanted the F-35 all along however it is better for Canada, in a number of ways, to have the later more developed aircraft. Other nations have worked through the birthing pains. Hello to Lunenburg, Nova Scotia that has a part in making the F-35. Nice to see the land of the famous Bluenose with a small part of the F-35 story.

[@Bobcatflyfish]

I’ve heard that the f-35 is sometimes nicknamed “Panther”

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Heard that now too, but not sure why.

[@toprob20]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Because it's stealthy and dangerous!

[@andrewhazlett5418]

Jell-O as far as ALO and their role within that joint structure, for the Army the ALO is the field grade rank position that will be that central point for the controller/JTAC Air Force elements within the Army Brigade/Division command structure. They are a more administrative position vs an operational position so the expectation isn’t necessarily they be a tactical jet guy out in the field calling in CAS, we have dedicated JTACs/CCTs for that. Their main role is to fill that seat at the table within the ground commander’s total staff and provide a critical subject matter expertise voice so that ground commander can both make effective decisions, or have those incorrect assumptions checked by “the guy who knows.” Similarly their is a GLO, Army officer within the wing leadership doing the same for the opposite service.

[@LRRPFco52]

Another great episode. Notice how there wasn't much talk of A2A outside of BFM.

[@IntrusiveThot420]

LRRPFco52 hah, minus "Yeah we get more info than the AWACS" lol

[@LRRPFco52]

@@IntrusiveThot420 There's an F-22 pilot interview where he said he was able to discriminate all the fighters in a 4-ship from considerable range and call out each one's ID and altitude with resolution the E-3 never had. F-35 net can do that in spades and blast through NCTR as if it didn't matter. Fused sensor resolution has gotten to the point where PID is well beyond aircraft reco, and threat sensor profile is displayed 3 dimensionally.

[@orlock20]

The 1990s era Aim 9X can launch at a target 90 degrees off the front of the aircraft. Once the targeting capability gets to 180 degrees, the F-35 can fly straight and still attack aircraft from any angle. The F-35 also has a friend or foe targeting capability, but i don't know if the missiles do.

[@rustyreese4006]

@@orlock20 Isreal has a missile that does that now. I've seen test fights in dcs which while not probably accurate beyond best guess, that gave the F 22 nightmares in a dogfight with an F 16 equipped with the missile. That thing is a game changer for close quarters.

[@christopherkuhn3217]

The lift fan on the F-35B was not invented by P&W and/or RR as indicated in the podcast. The lift fan was the invention of Dr. Paul Bevilaqua, the Lockheed Martin (LM) engineer, and his team. LM actually holds the patent on the lift fan. LM, with partners Northrop Grumman, BAE, plus P&W and Rolls Royce, including the complete lift system, the integrated lift fan propulsion system (ILFPS), were awarded the Collier Trophy for the F-35B in 2002.

[@christopherkuhn3217]

Listened again and understand that LtCol Hamilton was actually referring to the entire system, or ILFPS. All good, but good to have the recognition for LM on the lift fan. Thanks! Love the podcast!

[@paladin0654]

Using vendors in as many states as possible is definitely a proposal strategy that all A&D companies use....it's a major pain for the sub-contracts manager but it's required "proposal speak".

[@teedtabor3245]

(Sorry for the belated question - just listened to this) When Cinco said that the F-35 had more information than the AWACS or it was mentioned at the end that a four flight of f-22s didn't need the information from an AWACS, doesn't that imply that they are actively scanning(?) with their radar and if so, wouldn't that be a problem for keeping stealthy? Not disagreeing here at all. (I wouldn't know) Just curious, and thanks! Great podcast!

[@andrewmoore7022]

AESA radars are quite hard to detect do to rapid frequency changing amongst other things.

[@michaelmulligan0]

Why do test pilots fly existing aircraft?? Keep the hours & experience? For future upgrades? Develop tactics?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Check out our ‘NASA Flight Test’ episode from this past summer.