$1,000,000 CNC Machine Really Worth It?

[@someguy4476]

This guy is the greatest part of your videos. Make sure he sticks around. He’s a natural, with his own shtick.

[@raynerfpv2471]

This is one of those channels that I don`t want the video to end, Awesome content guys!

[@donniehinske]

Thank you!

[@JarppaGuru]

we had pimp my ride

[@donniehinske]

Shop cop is always on us I swear!

[@Smackintoshtv]

Why were you submerged in the water?😂

[@Adam-b8i]

Okay. Let’s work through the economics here: (I am assuming a 180 month depreciation for maximum tax benefit in this exercise) if the machine costs 1MM, that’s 5500/ month depreciation. If the other machine is 150K (total guess) that’s 833/ month depreciation. Which is approximately 6.6x addition to the labor rate. If we multiply the 7 second part on the multi Swiss by that, then that comes in around 47 seconds. Which I believe is right around where the time came in on the single spindle machine. So this really comes down to 2 factors IMO, deadlines and available capital. I am sure there are shops that need to produce this sort of quantity in this time frame. But I wouldn’t try to do it on one machine. If it goes down, you’re sunk. I’d personally run more of the ‘slower’ machine, at such a burden that if I lost one, I could make it up with extra shifts. And again, you can reduce TTR with process improvements, and still get that lead time down a little more. (Which in fairness, applies equally to both machines). I’d suppose it’s also a fair question to ask: what is the difference in lead times on these machines, since speed of delivery on the finished part is obviously the reason you’d want one. 👍🏻6:40

[@jonasstahl9826]

Sure completly depends on the economics, also dont forget if you buy multiple single spindle machines you get a discount instead of buying a single multispindle machine. Also service and keeping spareparts is way simpler with multiple machines of the same typ.

[@leandrodiromualdo2149]

shop cop travis at it again

[@paultheprofit]

Love these videos, been a long time watcher....would love to see them talking about how they get these orders eg the Sales Process 👍

[@bubbasplants189]

What do you mean? Pretty sure they just stop at the CNC drive-thru on the way to work.

[@ericsandberg3167]

Donnie makes some very informative videos that are also quite entertaining....and then there is Barry who takes it to another level....what a crew.

[@barks081]

EPIC Transition, Massive dedication!

[@kennethfharkin]

Nice video. MultiSwiss are expensive machines and you are looking at roughly double the hourly rate to operate but if you are producing parts 3+ times as fast as on a single it makes good sense. The killer is the run size. You really need to have complex parts with a run size of 100,000+ pieces to make optimal use of these beasts and they are definitely not for the smallest of Swiss type parts. These beasts excel in the high volume / high precision European automotive market for fuel injection systems and transmissions. Forget about American, the parts are designed with tolerances which can be maintained with a pottery wheel and a chisel so you are going to see the parts run on less expensive and lower precision machines. Here is the kicker... With the European crusade against internal combustion engines there is a shockwave going through the Swiss multi community. No IC engines means no fuel injection systems and no transmission systems (no tranny in electric). Index, the big German Multi builder, is very unsettled and you should be able to get pretty good deals on any Swiss multi now. I've been in multiple Swiss, German, and French multi shops and they all are worried about their survival with multis. Without the right parts to feed those machines they become nothing but pieces of industrial art. Multis are great machines for the right applications and certainly automotive isn't the only one. I have seen plenty of medical parts produced on Swiss multis. At the same time the automotive market is core to the multi business and without it they are facing very difficult times.

[@TAH1712]

Interesting comments... the rush to all electric with less component parts will affect everyone involved in car production. Less complicated bits, less machines and people to make / assemble them.

[@JohnSmith-dp2jd]

That's honestly interesting to hear. I work for a shop that does medical parts on Index multis, among others, and I could definitely see how they're made for things like injectors. Because of the lack of a guide bushing on the ones we've got, you're restricted to shorter parts. They don't do thread whirling, afaik, so they're not great for some high-volume parts like bone screws. Because of one long step limiting the cycle time, they're not great for parts a with lot of profile milling either. They're great within their niche, but they're not exactly do-everything machines.

[@TritonTv69420]

found the European hahaha. "with a pottery wheel and chisel..." hahahaha I wish the parts I made where that easy.

[@blackshadow772]

@@JohnSmith-dp2jd Thread whirling is possible on the MultiSwiss, depending on the length a specific support for the bone screw is required

[@r3dshed]

Donnie trying to optimise his video cycle time by talking faster and faster 🤣

[@kidfunkyfri3308]

5:00 i call it a shadow machine because i cant ever remember what they are called

[@InfoRanker]

I like how there's random gym equipment in the area. Setup the machine, hit the button and then make some gains.

[@IchibanEngineering]

awesome video. Donnie is awesome as always 💪💪😎

[@TITANSofCNC]

Thanks for the support

[@DT-wp2yc]

​@TITANSofCNC no it isn't. 3d printing will be taking over.

[@mark2167a]

Lol that underwater transition

[@spearshaker7974]

Arguing seconds over precision parts is something I never thought about. Fast precision it what counts.

[@camerondueck7249]

always great videos. was on the fence about machining counter bores in diesel engine blocks, people charge more that just the tooling for every cut here, i took a chance at self learning and can now cut counter bores. Titans, you are all fantastic and i wish you had a school that i could attend, you guys are so motivated for perfection and we all love it and want to achieve it.

[@netsrotniets131]

Dennis has really got a thing going for him. I love It!

[@SS-he9uw]

I love you so much man 😂❤ .. i don't know how you can be both the best machinest and the funniest person at the same time.. love you ❤

[@markdavis304]

8 Spindle MONSTER! Great video Donnie👏

[@всеяруси]

8 spindles are cool! But riding a chair is cooler!

[@justwayne4785]

😂😂 During my apprenticeship I was taught it was a shadow graph too. (UK)

[@wojtczak1984]

I have always called it a shadowgraph. maybe it is a regional thing.

[@wzhaicthtaarkyer]

Shadow graph, optical comparator. How george Carlin of you!

[@RetinaBurner]

Might want to slow down on the caffeine :P

[@christophervillalpando5865]

Awesome video Donnie! Those machines are so nice!

[@randywl8925]

Can we make Donnie faster if we give him four more cups of coffee? .......hey, were out of coffee ☕

[@stevenzigann310]

Hey Titans, on your 8 spindle machine you have a 7 sec cycle time. But the part isn't finish after 7 seconds or am I missing something? If finished the first cycle it goes to the 2nd spindle and have another 7 sec. Cycle. So wouldn't it be 8 times 7 seconds =56 seconds a part? And you just have the advantage to do step 1-7 while you are doing the 8th?

[@Mikowmer]

Sure, the first 7 cycles aren't going to output any parts. But each and every single cycle after that will. So while it might take 56 seconds for the first part to come out, the time until the next part drops out of the chute will be 7 seconds for every single part afterwards. Hence, it's a seven second cycle time.

[@noahhaller4540]

Cycle time is not the time it takes for a part to be started and completed, its the time for the machine to start and finish a cycle, or rather, the time between finishing two parts. So this machine produces a new part every 7 seconds. The machine cycle is doing all 8 steps on 8 different parts, and it takes 7 seconds to do so, thus the machine cycle, its repeating set of instructions, takes 7 seconds.

[@bengherasim9286]

Looks like Titian's paying a few guys a bit extra coin .... keep up the good work spreading the manufacturing gospel even though I'm not into Swiss turning you still learn something new everyday

[@narzedziowniawbudowie]

Low Mix High Volume => Tornos Multiswiss High Mix Low Volume => Tornos GT32 I would love to put both machines in my future workshop:)

[@anthonyrivers8395]

Awesome comparison. Let’s get some eight spindle action airtime. Maybe some complete cycles for a few minutes.

[@humanspirit3432]

It depends on part type

[@Hybrid869]

Lolol way to clap at TimTheTatman's theme. Ida died if he fell outta the chair 😂😂😂

[@Lferdi94]

i like the editor ahahahha

[@mathewdasilva4421]

Look at all those employees running those brand new machines

[@xXxGameboy500xXx]

Agree, its a shadow graph.

[@Xphinity]

How the heck does the GT32 push a part forward when spinning?!?! How does it clamp?!?

[@mantasr]

7 seconds * 8 = 56. It's actually 64, possibly some more time savings inherent to the 8 spindler. So it's what I guessed.

[@ninjanick27]

Love the video, There's a lot of camera shake that makes me dizzy while watching

[@danielrogers6090]

Ur a badass donnie. Can u guy plz make a playlist for all your storys of experiences through the trade. I would watch and share them if they wer easier to find

[@julianweiser9985]

The question is how many small machines do you need to equal the large one.

[@OpaqueWindow]

i need one of these. i run two star swiss 20s and a single 32.

[@Schematicrhyme9]

it is really an optical comparator

[@BPond7]

I have a Swiss Turn question: Do the guide bushings require precision ground stock, or will they yield the same results with regular bar stock?

[@engineeredtoast]

Depends on the guide bushings u get, some are more lenient than others, some need precision ground stock. If I'm not wrong the looser the bushing the more out of round the part will come out.

[@engineeredtoast]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iovKfGSNg9ueqdU

[@kennethfharkin]

Every Swiss shop I have worked with for 24+ years uses PG stock and it goes further. Holding the tolerance is good but is it uniform down the length and what is the roundness of the bar? Any variation within the length of the bar but within tolerance will result in binding or rattling. If you go to Switzerland you will find the shops are very particular about who they get bars from as the suppliers for material there know it goes beyond the printed tolerance. When we have supplied stock from the USA in specialty grades to shops in Switzerland we often ran into problems until we found a source here who could routinely provide the dimensionally uniform bars needed for optimal turning.

[@donniehinske]

Depends on the work you are doing. Most shops just use regular bar stock

[@kennethfharkin]

@@donniehinske Ask Titan about his visit to Laubscher in Täuffelen, Switzerland. Manfred has retired since his visit but I can guarantee you there isn't a single bar going on a sliding headstock there which isn't PG. I was there again just last month. I sent Manfred and his brother Hans-Peter American sourced material more than once over the last twenty four years and they handed me my ass early on after the crappy performance it yielded. It only takes one time having an angry Swiss shop owner dropping a box of defective parts, swarf, mangled bar pieces and broken tools on the table in front of you and saying "this is the shit you send me" before you get the message 🙂 At the same time those gentlemen taught me plenty and I am thankful for it. You can certainly get away without PG but it impacts your performance, surface roughness, and the tolerances you can hold. The better the bar the better the results. It all comes down to what you are hoping to get in the end. Also, nice background shot of Zurich.

[@junkdubious]

Could you not run a different a SKU in each spindle? Of course, that assumes your running the same material. Unless, you don't care about mixing your chips.

[@TheMonadnockShootist]

1:20 I thought we were gonna get a @timthetatman cameo somehow

[@nathanquinlan2719]

8 spindles executes faster than 8 1 spindle machines is a given. But the cost of GT 32 was not listed for proper comparison

[@nileshsolid1]

150K approx

[@SiempreConTrasto]

Ok, so you've just warped time. Now we wait for some relativistic effects applied to space.😆

[@misfit3050]

What was the swimming bit about? O.o

[@TritonTv69420]

bUt DonNie I Can MaKe THe PaRT FASter on My Machine.

[@donniehinske]

HAHA! Love it!

[@ffagilar2245]

When did this channel become solely a promotional channel for companies?

[@TommiHonkonen]

that what told my former boss, no sense in having multiple bad machines when you can get one proper. thats why its former boss

[@tommytwotimes2838]

Our CNC 5-axis costs 5mil €. Highest accuracy in the world!

[@lerbyn]

Not a machinist, but what is the information gained here? This doesn't seem like a scenario that would ever happen. Could be wrong tho

[@kumo9993]

It's about optimising productivity. When companies as big as Titans get contracts from the medical industry or similar to make a huge bulk number of parts, optimising how fast the parts are made is the difference between making money and the client going to another company who can do it faster or cheaper. Obviously the multi-swiss would be hugely expensive (after a quick google search I could only find "price on request" which means it's likely a million dollars or more) but the fact that it could finish a job of 500,000 parts 9.25 times faster means even if the cost of the machine is 9 times more than the single spindle, the cost vs productivity is still the same. From a business perspective it makes sense then to shell out and buy the better machine, cause being the company that makes parts faster (and therefore cheaper) is so important. Hope this cleared it up. Yes there's probably not many scenarios where someone wants half a million of the same part, but they do exist and this is how you be the best at it

[@helicopterdriver]

Mostly justifying the throughput of a multi spindle machine in large runs of parts in a smaller shop space. It happens a lot. 8 machines vs 1 and time and space saved. Machine payback time as well. 1 guy operating 1 machine and maybe 2 guys operating 8 machines. Time is money...

[@lerbyn]

@@kumo9993 that is not my point. Translating the same operations beween machines is not realistic as they say in the video so what is the point in making the comparasion? Wouldn't a more informative comparasion be optimized operations for both machines? Obviously the 8 spindle version will be faster but maybe less than 8x faster

[@kennethfharkin]

@@lerbyn It absolutely depends on the part. The time for each operation is the key. If one operation is 70% of your machining time on a single then there is no point in going to a multi. Translating the same operations between machines is absolutely realistic. I have watched parts developed on an SR20 in low volume and then ramped up to an MS18 for volume production. Developed in low volume on the Star single spindle and when the 100,000+ orders came in the Index multi had arrived and been qualified. Yes, perfectly optimized operations would be better for a comparison. There is a reason that is not being done here. Note that you can SEE the operations being demonstrated. That is because they are running brass with no cutting fluid. They are also not using the complex tools which would need said cutting fluid, even on brass. In actuality they will be running 400 series SS, 17-4, and other materials. The time savings will never be 8x on an 8 spindle. Ideally the cycle time will be the time of the LONGEST single operation. Say there are 8 operation totaling 120 seconds. If even it would be 15 seconds an operation for a new cycle time of 15 seconds. In actuality the longest operation takes 30 seconds, which is therefore your new cycle time on the Multi. That means you are making 4x as many parts in the same time on the multi. Assume a rate of USD75 an hour for the single spindle. In an hour you can produce 30 parts with each having a cost of USD2.50 Assume a rate of USD150 an hour for the multi. In an hour you can produce 120 parts with each having a cost of USD1.25 Who do you think will get the job?

[@GaryDeans03]

It’s a shadow graph for people who have already hit the smart spectrum, it’s an optical comparator for people trying to sound smart 😂

[@RealNotallGaming]

those are 2 different machines for 2 different types of workshops cant compare those 2

[@davidbcn84]

It doesnt make sense this. Assuming that the 8 spindles are perfectly balance (which I doubt) the operation should take max 56seconds (8x7sec) in the gt32. Why is it taking longer?

[@donniehinske]

Because all 8 spindles have a different operations happening at the same time. So each spindle is 1/8 of the process. Yes it takes 56 seconds for one part to get made but every time it rotates another one drops so it takes 7 seconds to make one part.

[@davidbcn84]

​​@@elanjacobs1 dont believe that tool change is longer than spindle change. Dont you agree?

[@davidbcn84]

​@@donniehinskeyes, I understand that it takes 7 seconds in a 8 spindles machine, which should be max 56seconds in a single spindle machine and not 64seconds as he says in the video. Actually I belive that it should be less than these 56seconds, as probably some of the spindles in multispindle are waiting to other operations to be ready evrn he tried to balance as much as possible

[@biplabsingh9070]

Nice

[@user-vl8dy1os6r]

它的效率太高了。

[@mcolossi]

Wooow🇮🇹😍

[@smokeyou812]

Damn.....tell that machine to save some p#$$/ for the rest of us!

[@vadmalski]

Dude, you need to chill. try to 0,5 your feed speeds

[@jlr0884]

So what was the point of this video again?

[@dejanvanevski4399]

No, for 1mil you can buy 4 machines

[@JarppaGuru]

if it worth it then you make millions. if someone buy parts

[@Kevin-vg5uw]

Dude, why u dancing most if the time

[@XNeo27564]

Third!

[@hskmakinamuhendislik]

First !!

[@canardsalle7731]

Nobody makes 20k parts unless the clients never heard of China

[@kennethfharkin]

Damn, I didn't realize the work I have been doing for 24 years had no point. I better call all my medical customers for whom we make hundreds of thousands of parts for implants and surgical devices and tell them to just go to the lowest bidder in China. That would also include the Swiss type parts we make in Switzerland and have sent to China for assembly into the medical devices made there. Then there are the hydraulic parts we make which again I guess should just go to China.

[@canardsalle7731]

@@kennethfharkin medical industry is government subsidized, therefore using tax dollars. They don't care about the prices. Government clients and defence are a whole new animal.

[@kennethfharkin]

@@canardsalle7731 Wow, that is a laughable statement. If you do not think very real costs drive an enormous amount of medical manufacturing decisions I would like you to go visit a couple of the top line device makers we support and let them know. Government is NOT paying for the enormous costs of design, validation, production, and ongoing quality systems associated with the production of medical components. They do suck money out by taxing every medical device made in the USA, not just those sold to the USA, which is why there was an enormous sucking sound after Obamacare was passed as major companies like Stryker, Abbott and others moved their device assembly lines out of the USA to places like Ireland and elsewhere. The cost to develop and make these medical devices is entirely on the companies making them. The US government isn't handing out cash. The Abbotts, Alcons, Strykers, Medtronics, and Edwards of the world need to make their decisions based on their ability to SELL a new product to improve the human condition or a better version of an existing one. They compete with each other aggressively for the market share and suffer the consequences when they gamble poorly or fail to perform. Any other observations on this market?

[@blackshadow772]

No no is is quite often people are just unaware of it, 20k is even a relatively small batch. Client are from all kind of industry, think about an airplane, you have million of fastner, the inner part of your tire valve, the axis for your whippers.

[@kennethfharkin]

@@blackshadow772 Agreed. I can tell you for a fact that there are parts made on Swiss type machines in Switzerland delivered to American medical device manufacturers in America with annual quantities in the hundreds of thousands of parts up to the millions.

[@VitaliySunny]

Cringe

[@jesvans]

8 spindle, pssst. i want a 42 spindle