#1 Myth About Getting Hired as a Self-Taught Programmer

[@AndySterkowitz]

Did this video help clarify the job hunting process as a self-taught programmer?

[@guitarman813]

While I understand and appreciate what you're saying in the video, I only partly agree with it. The reason being is because in the UK job market in particular, there has been a steady decrease in new hires being recruited by businesses. Now of course, there are numerous factors as to why that is. But the bottom line is that employers in UK-based firms are not willing to train or strongly mentor inexperienced employees. Simply because they don't have the time nor the resources to do such things. Therefore taking your example from the video, if there was a candidate who applied for a position as a Java developer and never knew any Java in the first place, then he/she would have pretty much zero chance of being offered that job. On top of that, not only does the candidate in question have to know Java as a programming language. But he/she must also know the Spring framework and also more advanced Java concepts to be even be considered. Which while it sounds like a fair amount, there are potentially hundreds and sometimes even thousands of applicants for just one job post. So a fresh and green-shoe candidate rarely ever cuts it in the UK job market. So therefore, these UK-based firms will only really consider candidates who have experience, even if those job posts being advertised are at a junior/entry level. I can't comment on the US job market but from my experience, I've found that one has to go above and beyond in their skill-set to even be considered for a UK job in software development, despite the increasing demand for such people in the UK itself. A good video though and good news about that individual who did manage to land a job in a programming language that he didn't know. But like I said, that would have been 1 in a 10,000 chance here in the UK.

[@Hofer2304]

​@@guitarman813 I don't understand these firms. Just because you aren't a Java developer doesn't mean you are an inexperienced develeoper. A developer, who has successful made serious projects in several languages, is much more experienced than a Java developer who has only made toy projects.Such a developer will learn Java, and the needed frameworks, in no time.

[@Ophelia11]

@@guitarman813 Is there not a shortage of developers in the UK? I find Andy's scenario to be true here in France because there's a severe developer shortage and companies are desperate to fill positions. Sure, the postings are asking for the ideal, but developers who "have it all" aren't going to work for what these companies are willing to pay. The Holy Grail devs would rather work for big players like Google and Facebook, freelance or launch their own startup. So these smaller companies have no choice but to hire the next best thing.

[@johnnycastillo9139]

So you're saying that a company is willing to help you learn a language that you have no xp with as long as you show a record of learning something related? I thought companies don't train people anymore.

[@Hofer2304]

@@johnnycastillo9139 You have to learn yourself. The company should give you all the means needed for successful learning. You are an experienced programmer, you just don't know Java.

[@yanksbroncs413]

I’m a former IT recruiter for a multi billion dollar corporation. Hiring managers hire off of attitude. If you’re driven and willing to learn, they’ll hire you over someone with more experience, who has a bad attitude. If they ask for 10 years experience, they’re good with 4-7 If they ask for 5, they’re good with 2-3 1-3, good with entry level and good attitude They will never admit it, but they just want someone who can fit personality-wise into the group they already have

[@cautarepvp2079]

wait what? So i can get a job that requires 1-3 years of exp, and i have 0 years of exp, all i need to know is "basics" and a thirst to learn and become better? Thats it?

[@yanksbroncs413]

cautare pvp That is correct. I’ve hired MANY people in IT who didn’t have the “required” amount of years experience, or skills, but had the right attitude and fit into the environment. Don’t get me wrong, there are also managers of the opposite. They are dead set on years of experience and don’t sway, but don’t hesitate to apply to a job of 1-3 years of you have a good attitude and maybe some relevant personal projects.

[@m.wilkinson9559]

@@yanksbroncs413 Are you talking about the US or the UK? Because in the UK when the job posting says x,y,z they won't even give you an interview if your CV doesn't show x, y, z

[@yanksbroncs413]

M. Wilkinson US. Not sure how the UK works. Submitting a resume or planning out your LinkedIn is all about key words. When people say match your resume to the job your applying to, they aren’t lying. Recruiters use boolean searches for candidates, which allows us to scan resumes quickly and efficiently

[@cUser691]

@ BubbGumpShrim... an illuminating comment. Define further “ good attitude” though beyond pop psychology’s ‘ positivity’ and ‘positive attitude’. Obviously don’t bad- mouth previous employers and show through work you’re excited to learn anything. What else?

[@johnnaranjo1668]

This makes me so excited. Thanks Andy.

[@immortalnub]

When I applied for my job, the only skill I had that was desired in the list of requested skills was Java, and my knowledge for that was vague. I still got hired. My programs that I submitted were a c++ program that drew 7 cards at random, a java program that had buttons to "change the speed" of 3 different "vehicles" (there were no vehicles, just text boxes), and a basic website that wasn't even online or have a backend language with it. The purpose of my programs were to demonstrate my knowledge in oop, encapsulation, and inheritance. This, and my cousin putting in a good word for me, was enough to get me in the door, and my experience from my internship secured my position. They seemed to like my experience working with the marketing team, and the languages I used at my internship were not the ones I use at this job. So don't be discouraged when you find jobs that ask for skills you don't have. Just keep in mind that they expect you to learn those skills on the job.

[@AndySterkowitz]

Great story! Thanks for sharing ImmortalNub :-)

[@cautarepvp2079]

hmm so reading your post, should i build few websites and some apps? Will i get easy an job?

[@immortalnub]

@@cautarepvp2079 Sorry if I downplayed the difficulty of getting a job. It is still not easy, and I went a year searching for one. The important parts are your connections and previous work experience (if any). I made a profile on a bunch of different job searching sites, which led me to getting a call from someone who specializes in hooking people into government programs that help people get jobs. The program I was in was called WIOA. There, I attended a couple classes taught by a career coach. I got my internship without an interview because the guy hiring knew me since I was a child (father of a friend of mine). And for my current job, I got it because of my internship experience, my job references from my internship, and my cousin who works there put in a good word for me. If I were you, I would look for gov't programs that help people get jobs, or find a career coach. While writing your own software is important, it is massively overrated with respect to getting a job. You just need to demonstrate that you have a strong understanding of the fundamentals.

[@immortalnub]

​@Neal DoubleAA If that's that attitude you want to take in a job search, then you should give up now. However, I wouldn't recommend such a decision as the programming life is great and is absolutely achieveable if you can focus on your objectives properly. The career coach I mentioned from the WIOA program stated that your skills will only account for 20% in your ability to get a job. I doubt that there is a single person watching Andy who hasn't solidly hit that 20%. You need to build connections. Yeah, I got extremely lucky. So did literally everyone else who got a job. The way Andy got his job, applying to job postings with an updated resume until he got a job, is about as likely as winning the lottery. The career coach has stated that too. Did Andy and I have to work our asses off to get our jobs? Absolutely! "Privilege" isn't going to get you a job if you sit around and do nothing, which is what you seem to imply that I did despite the wall of text I had put up explaining how I got my job. I would not have gotten my internship if I didn't study vigorously to become a programmer. You need to build connections, and job coaches and recruiters can help you with precisely that.

[@immortalnub]

@Neal DoubleAA Hey, can I use you instead of powerpoint for a presentation? Your projection is incredible. Stating the reality of how to get a job does not make me a prick, but you can deny reality all you want; not like I can force a horse to drink water or anything.

[@AtomicKnights]

You are right. I got a job as C++ developer 15 years ago and I had never written a single line C++ code before. I still have that job.

[@danp2596]

To be fair it was easier 15 years ago

[@m.wilkinson9559]

@@danp2596 exactly!

[@HCoRE8]

This is the kind of content that makes me love KZbin. 👍👏

[@Praxis_by_tanay_pingalkar]

Is there any way to get a job at 14? without having any college degree. I'm a self-taught full-stack web developer and I am just confused that am I capable or just a noob.

[@piotrn2491]

"He does not have a high IQ." Man, that must be painful :D

[@AndySterkowitz]

He is a smart guy...just not a genius level IQ. :-)

[@kiwicami287]

That cracked me up to be honest :)

[@danieljulien4099]

Piotr Napierala LOL 😂😋 Andy made me laugh when he said that but i got what he meant + he didn’t mean it the bad way LOL i just thought : "if his friend sees this video...hahahahaha" Andy ❤️👍🏾

[@Rhodair]

What about all the jobs who use robots to filter resumes? Many won't even get you to the interview if you don't match what they're asking for.

[@rdoetjes]

That first myth is getting a realty here in the Netherlands especially for us freelancers. Recruiters and customers what degrees and certifications. I don’t care for either! If I see someone who’s build something worthwhile in C++ then I know they can do C# Java, Python without an issue. It takes them 1 or 2 weeks to google for the way how to transfer a programming concept into the new language but if you done C++ you can basically do any OO language as its more abstract. I always so that when you know the concepts and one language very well, you can learn any other. And that goes for programming but also sysadmin or network admins. But now they want more and more diplomas and yet complain they can’t find people. I have a trade school engineering degree that is as good (if not better) than a BSc degree now. And they now even started to ask for MSc’s here. And ironically they higher the education the less practical people are. Ive never hired a wrong individual or wrong intern. All that I hired were people that demonstrated initiative, a way of problem analysis (very important, because if you can explain the problem the solution is generally easy). I noticed that in my freelance career instead of based in my experience on my CV. I get hired based on references. The bank that I work for now. I came in through a person who’s an MSc and he said: “Ray is good”. But Ray doesn’t have a BSc! “Ray has a tradeschool diploma cum laude, he has build the system from my former client from the ground up”. Okay he can do an interview. But they wanted a now colleague to be there to ask the technical questions. But since he was sick he said I can’t make it, take care of it. Who is it?! They said my name and he said: “Dont brother with the interview give him a contract, he’s really good. Our knowledge supplements each other and I want him”. Turns out that we worked together at the justice department :) But despite my massive amount of experience on my resume all references are perfect. They just look at education. And I don’t know why a tradeschool is allegedly worse than a BSc. I break down most BSc educate people because of my experience. I do understand that us freelancers are far more expensive. Costing 85-110 euros an hour. So they basically want guarantees. But diplomas and certifications aren’t those guarantees. I’ve come across MSCE’s that didn’t understand the concept of DNS and had no clue how to tune a System for performance and MCSP’s that wrote the most inefficient code possible. Their argument: “this is how it’s taught”. But it’s taught in that way to be legible and maintainable and for low volumes. We are on the end of the spectrum of low volumes! Here read and write calls add up and cripple your OS! You need to think about reducing IO calls in this case. Or a other case some moron, thought that it was clever to have a thread per socket connection... I just asked him (an MSCP .Net) how may socket connections can IP handle concurrently? Much to my amazement he didn’t know. So I said 65356 minus 1024 that’s the theoretical maximum. He said but we only have 20.000 concurrent users.... Oooh... I see what you’re saying. But he couldn’t come up with a solution to accept requests without spawning a thread per client and instead have a select and poll on sockets in a thread, that takes the requests or delivers the responses. And that guy also (much to my amazement) didn’t know binary math. As the system that was among others feeding the information back to the requesters was a serial process. I explained him to read the data but every time the clock pin goes low and just shift the data coming in to the right. And you know id there’s a new sequence starting when the latch is high. So the easiest way to start reading is doing a logical and on clock plus latch. He was actually (I kid you not) having a 16 step for loop (the data was 16 bits) and checking to see what the loop counter was on. Then have a switch statement and adding the binary number for that bit). I refactored the code in a more robust way by just using a binary shift operation >> It shows that MSCP teaches you how to do the basic stuff but not how to conceptualize and solve problems.

[@m.wilkinson9559]

I find that a lot of web development videos on youtube typically are from developers working in the US and I believe the way developers are treated over in the US is very different than the UK. Not only are developers paid more in the US than equivalent in the UK but it seems that US companoes care more about the portfolio of work that applying devs have. But in the UK companies are specifically looking for devs with commercial experience and don't recognise "bedroom coding" as legitimate or even being self-taught. I think Andy if you have insight in the UK job market for developers, please share that with us. But if your advice is just based on the US job market, then it's not fair to make your video's message universally applicaple since what you're saying doesn't really apply in the UK.

[@kiwicami287]

Thank you Andy, coming in clutch with that video because i'm currently job hunting and i've told myself that there's no point in applying to jobs that asks for a language i don't even know, i'll apply to every job offer i come across now. I've only applied to job offer that asks for languages i know because i thought that it would be crazy that an employer would hire someone that doesn't know the top language that they listed in the offer, but as you said i guess they look for a person that as the track record of learning on their own. Thank you! Edit: I'll be going to my first interview for a web developer position, in a week, i'm incredibly pumped! And really nervous but i'm preparing myself the best i can for it

[@AndySterkowitz]

Cheers Scorpio!

[@user_16309]

I feel I’m not a “fast learner”. I am a thorough learner (I feel I am at least). Is this a deal breaker for changing careers to become a developer?

[@cUser691]

Dustin Wright, your conscientious learning will reward you. You will become a craftsman-level programmer. Remember, HR throws terms like ‘fast-learner’ around. What the h does that even mean? There’s no objective measure w/ that terminology, “fast learner”. That means only someone who can learn a new language/framework. If I learn Python crappy half-baked in 2weeks while you gain more careful mastery of Python in 2 months, which is best? Keep up your thorough learning. “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast”.... this quote from a bcamp exec to me when I lamented my ‘slow’ pace. Dustin, you could also shift your wording from ‘feel’ - you mentioned it twice- to “think”. When you internalize that word, things will get clearer. Good luck.

[@cautarepvp2079]

@@cUser691 yeah but what you think of people that learn in 3 months to be good for a job and people that need 1 year for example.. doesnt that make a difference fast learning vs slow learning?

[@casioamplifier]

Thank you. This video was helpful. One last thing. How important is data structures and algorithms? For example, can you still get a front end job or back end job without knowing data structures and algorithms? Your input would be appreciated.

[@willf.h6951]

Does this also apply when you're 48 yrs old?

[@kiwicami287]

Of course it does, why would it change anything, godspeed sir

[@AndySterkowitz]

Yes

[@Janzer_]

well you'll deal with some ageism stuff in tech. think not? go look at social media. people like to pretend that "i don't see color/age/gender", but that's bullshit. on the other hand, you don't want to work with those people anyway so, fuck it. apply away.

[@immortalnub]

@@Janzer_ Technically, people are illegally discriminated against in the hiring process all the time for all sorts of reasons. If you're white, you will be discriminated against for that reason. Black? Same story. Male? Female? No one is safe. However, for that reason, you're not going to be at a disadvantage more so than someone else. And it's like you said, you wouldn't want to work with those types of people anyway.

[@MikeySKA]

Cheers, Andy. Really enjoying the vids. Very helpful. I'm in the middle of my IT Masters, which is focused on IT Management. But I'm adding self-taught programming (Java/JScript/Full Stack) on the side. Your recommendation of a broad-based job search approach definitely brightens the horizon.

[@AndySterkowitz]

Glad to help MikeySKA

[@daniel71626]

Thank you Andy! I think this applies to all countries, and it is such good information!

[@AndySterkowitz]

Glad to help Daniel!

[@PugzofSteel]

What's stopped me is every post starts with: "Bachelor's required". And so I gave up with my Associates and enrolled in cybersecurity.

[@cautarepvp2079]

you mean every job requires bachelor degree?

[@PugzofSteel]

@@cautarepvp2079 All software development jobs have a "Bachelor's required" in their post.

[@keshavdk3080]

Thank you for the video. I have worked for start up as “Internet of things developer” where my contribution was to design a prototype for our client where i programmed(C language) a microcontroller with sensor which is connected to AWS Internet of things cloud platform for a duration of 8 months which includes sending the sensor data from device to AWS IoT cloud. Now the company is not operating. Since I have less experience I now work in different domain to take care of myself as well as pay my bills. I am also learning python programming language from Udemy and also completed 6 small projects like building a website using Python flask, Open CV,Desktop database applcaition,Creating webmaps using Folium,Data analysis using pandas,numpy,webcam motion detector using webcam, Interactive Data Visualization with Bokeh. My query is, as a self taught programmer ,I would like to know from experience person like you that, will these projects help me land a job. I believe I can make a comeback and work even though I have gap in my career. But I would like to get suggestions on how can I apply with these skills in my resume,the duration of these above projects I can put in my profile. Please correct me and suggest ,if I asked anything wrong.

[@SSEnrich]

Good this video comes now. I might get back on track. 3 days now without coding. I have worked very hard in my normal job which prevents me from coding. And at the rest of the time I have been trying to learn trading. Which I find more interesting than coding. However today it is back to the projects.

[@conquered.kozmos1395]

Bro the unintentional burn at 3:12 😭😭

[@goonholiday656]

I got hired as a full stack in a .NET dev once with no experience in .NET But I went the same approach and showed my ability on how quickly I could learn

[@omar_mtl]

Guys I’m about to start applying, and dropped out of college last year. What should I put in my education on my portfolio? Or just leave it blank.

[@katrinastallworth5996]

Very insightful. After studying countless job postings, I was feeling a bit overwhelmed by the laundry list of job requirements. This is good to know. I also agree that learning one programming language well probably makes it easier to learn other languages.

[@aravindravindranatha4260]

Hi could you please help me .....i have changed the career from telecom to developer

[@aravindravindranatha4260]

@Andy could you please guide me in getting my first job

[@Frank78565]

Andy. Can you clarify in one of your videos if you “need” to be a full stack developer?

[@immortalnub]

Be willing to become one. When I landed my internship as a full stack, I knew c++ (not used), basic html (thank you steam guides), and some sql.

[@dianasvideos123]

Thank you for this video, Andy!!!

[@AndySterkowitz]

You're welcome Diana!

[@istandaloneroronoazoro5188]

I thought that companies are made of money just because they exist, not vice versa.

[@oscarbustillo5055]

Andy I love your videos they're very helpful. I also would like to know the beat at the end of your video where can I get it.

[@williamparrish2436]

My first job I knew nothing about JavaScript. I got hired to build an Angular front-end for a Python backend. I built it in 12 weeks of hell, where every time I completed what they asked me to create, they changed the scope. At the end of the 12 weeks I was let go. They were disappointed that I needed help with the project. Not saying what is in this video is not true, just saying I will NEVER again say yes to a programming job where I don't know the language, the library, and the environment backwards and forwards. Why create that nightmare for yourself?

[@jonp6709]

What languages do you know?

[@williamparrish2436]

@@jonp6709 i know some c++ and java. For the past year ive been using javascript. When i return to web dev, i will be ready, but it took a year

[@jonp6709]

@@williamparrish2436 do you know machine learning

[@workoutbinodpro6555]

For a STP what do i show as my work experience? I have some udemy certs

[@Samir-50082]

Thank you for your informative videos. You are motivating me to keep up.

[@contemasanting3168]

Just right on time when i needed this. Thanks a lot.

[@bsteez]

This was definitely something that I needed to hear. thanks

[@limitless1692]

It is extremely hard out there... I applied to hundreds of jobs in Tech. And I still didn't get hired. I am to the point whre I start to regret that I resigned from my job and wasted over 3,000 hours in learning how to code. The market is oversaturated :(

[@amrindraouk3440]

I feel you :(

[@javiervera3367]

thanks for your words, データ先輩

[@ManeelxAkosAdor]

Loud and clean! Thanks Andy.

[@sergiomendoza6833]

thanks for the claification

[@MrDa47ve]

Great video! TKS

[@ksriharsha2911]

Thanks a bunch Sir!

[@AndySterkowitz]

Glad to help!

[@fahemzoldyck1729]

Hey Andy, Great video. ✊ I wanted to ask you , do you know how to develop a graphics-based Windows application ? for example to create UML Diagram . (like this online does : www.draw.io/)

[@Garbageprincess]

Thank you so much. This video was precise and very helpful. You have many excellent points! Its also relieving to hear how we can properly jobhunt and apply to jobs that we don't even necessarily qualify for, with the right attitude and track record.

[@kaushikmitra28]

This doesn't work for most service based companies in India... They won't even conduct an interview in such cases..

[@ferfykins]

Hey Andy!! THanks for the video... Was wondering what type of math do i need to know as a self taught developer? Also, you said your first big projects was a tetris game, what sort of math did you need to know to complete that game? Thanks

[@yourstrulyjohnnydollar8775]

I think this advice also applies for those who are not self taught as well. I raced through community college to get my first IT job, but I would have had the same problem he describes if I had not gotten an internship.

[@tatheerjumani4044]

As a senior citizen on Medicare I am interested in coding but I met somebody he said you won’t get the job don’t waste your time I have to believe him as he trains people in Queens ny I am 65 active mentally and physically

[@ryankanno2562]

My friend majored in Java in college, and got hired for a C# position right out of college with 6 figures having never seen C# before in his life.

[@Steven-wo9bm]

Hey Andy why don't you make tutorials on programming?

[@thinhphung1507]

Don't have any computer science degree, Can I get my first job?

[@lycansre]

You're a very good informative in regard of these myths

[@PangeaPrime]

Iv started studying front end and iv finished a non responsive project first ever project does that mean I can apply

[@dean6046]

Thanks man!

[@AndySterkowitz]

Cheers!

[@quattrontech188]

is there a minimum age requirement for coding jobs?

[@AtomicKnights]

No, I saw amazing coders still in their teenage years. If you have the skills go for it.

[@Alche_mist]

In most countries, yes. There is often the legal age minimum for any jobs - that includes the coding ones.

[@georgettebeulah4427]

This is so true and can relate to it but not so sure wish to read more and understand a lot from it.

[@zach4216]

Is that lightbulb gonna set fire to the wood?

[@merlin2049er]

what program do you need to write to become a programmer?

[@ademineshat]

Thank you Andy!💪 I'm that Person. 2 years no luck! Forgot to mention, I've lost job opportunity many times, because i didn't know Laravel, even though I'm very good at php,js,html,cs,c# and some frameworks etc :(

[@freddiejambaro5919]

the coding Bootcamp that I'm currently enrolled is nearing its end, this video is so timely

[@jonp6709]

How was the bootcamp

[@staffordnelson9053]

Your great! Thank you!

[@malic_zarith]

I went into a psychosis when I was 21 and it has taken me years of treatment to recover. I've had two jobs, but lost them both while in that psychosis and can't put them on a resume. Can I still get the job if I have zero job experience on my resume? I'm a very fast learner and I know most of python already.

[@ruslanyakushev4107]

If python is your first programming language, then you'll have to learn more. Build some personal project, try to make them unique and make sure these are apps you like. Cause programming is not about knowing a language, it is about building products, problem solving and if you're going to get lucky creativity. Then move towards the direction where you want to work. And when you're going to ask yourself a question "am i ready for a job now?", then apply. Learn from the interviews, continue to make personal project and you'll get hired. By the way, learn other languages as well

[@malic_zarith]

@@ruslanyakushev4107 Thats encouraging, thanks

[@qwertyguy1556]

I like your videos👍

[@1313Juje]

What are the Head First books in the background? I think I make out C# and Python? What are the other two? What are some other book recommendations you'd make?

[@izildopimentel6853]

Stop reading start building.

[@1313Juje]

Fair point, but if you're just starting out, a few good book recommendations couldn't hurt. Even if you're more intermediate or advanced, there are still "classics" (e.g., GoF Design Patterns, Pragmatic Programmer) that anyone should probably have on their shelf.

[@viscom999]

Good vedeo good channel

[@kostasdrakakis8386]

0:35 He said what the f , I TRUST HIM !

[@fredirecko]

I agree and disagree

[@waytoprogramming]

So true #ihavereadthatbook

[@sadekirfan8582]

how are you Andy?

[@minenhle1]

Am self taught programmer should i apply for junior position or intermediate or senior?

[@mucyotreasure9178]

Yes you can, sometimes these companies are asking for experience but there are other factors that should qualify you

[@kiwicami287]

I've been applying to offers that demand more experience than i have but only in languages i know, i'll be applying to every offer i see regardless of experience or knowledge of the language. You should do the same, what have you got to lose, worse possible outcome is that you'll not get a response or you'll get a negative response.

[@guitarman813]

If you have no commercial experience, apply to junior positions only.

[@warrior100girl]

As a working student, i was hired for C++, Java, C# and SQL. Guess what? No, i wasn´t working on either of these. They gave me a list of ToDos and told me, I should do it in Powershell. I was like: "WHAT? I don´t know Powershell." The supervisor said: "Well, you said, you learn fast." Well, indeed, that´s true. :D And the boss said: "If we wrote Powershell, no one would have applied!"

[@whatshatnin4572]

Powerful video