10 classic and toy store games that dont suck

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"Killers" "Exit the premises" "werq" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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[@thanosgattos5783]

I believe another game that should deserve a place on this list is "Mastermind"

[@movax20h]

Oh. Yes. I played it as a kid, it is an awesome game.

[@christiananimepunk4793]

I honesty didn't like that game. Every time I play it I just about win it every time. You just pick every combination for every slot and win. I can understand that the game has created the whole riddle/thinker/mystery Genre and it's mechanics have influenced games like "Codenames" and "Dixit". But I just couldn't get into "Mastermind" sadly.

[@aos-archive]

@@christiananimepunk4793 That's why you start including Duplicates when it's not challenging enough for you.

[@zacdredge3859]

Another toy store game that is underrated and did solo gaming before it was cool is RushHour.

[@aos-archive]

@@zacdredge3859 I never heard of RushHour before I learned of "Unblock Me" on iOS.

[@barry_t]

You nailed it with this one! There's a channel about appreciating whiskey...where the most important was enjoy what you like. This is what I feel watching this video.

[@huh8514]

whiskey vault?

[@barry_t]

@@huh8514 yeah, them...small world

[@thorny1]

"What you like, the way you like it"

[@user-ol7xj6qz7l]

Dude, darts totally has a board! It's just...on a wall. :D

[@edwardliddell501]

I really appreciate how inclusive you are when speaking about games and the people that love them. Your thoughts on these mass market games, and your previous discussion of "gateway" games show thoughtfulness and kindness. I, too, get frustrated with how dismissive some hobby gamers can be sometimes. Love your positivity and approach.

[@3MBG]

Kia Ora Edward. Thank you

[@KZsZs]

Thank you again for this great, and useful list! I too believe that the question "do you like board games?" is reaching the level of "do you like movies?" with it's divisive nature. There are so many ways to approach board gaming, so many aspects this hobby covers, that the answer cannot just be a simple "yes" or "no". Like when you ask people if they like movies, and they say "Yes I like to watch 3 hour long French art films from the 60's" or "Yes I ADORE Ben Stiller movies". We have different taste, preferences, and concepts of "fun". None of these answers should be considered bad or stupid, because movies, just like board games are diverse and can offer significantly distinct experiences. I am in the middle of building a board game collection, and the deeper I get into it, the more I have to realize how differently my gaming groups approach the hobby, and how a game can be perfect for someone and a disaster for someone else. Your list points out that we should not forget a crucial aspect of gaming when it comes to "non-gamers" : familiarity. Poker, Chess and many of the games you mentioned became part of the global cultural concept of "gaming". For many people gaming is the smooth, well-know, familiar feeling of being a child, sitting down and play these globally known games with their families. For many people this feeling is part of the act of playing. No wonder so many people gets turned off by 30-60 minute long rule explanations, intricate mechanisms, new concepts and complicated gameplay loops. For some people gaming is smooth, relaxing and simple with rules they known for decades, and a gameplay that became second nature, like being at ease around your family. We should never look down on this, but respect it. This hobby is about having fun together, and not about judging someone else's personal concept of having fun. Love from Hungary!

[@3MBG]

And, a little bit like movies, the "everyone's a critic" factor is creeping in. You can't just play a game/watch a film and have fun. Some people feel the need to constantly challenge your right to have enjoyed a film.

[@fluffnight]

Additionally, I recently worked in the Dominican Republic where Dominos is very big. For a few weekends in a row, I would play with some of the local coworkers. Also great fun when language is a barrier!

[@Vysetron]

Backgammon is so good! Do play it with her, though maybe not on the super expensive board at first. My pick for a "toy store game" is Masterpiece. It's one of my absolute favorite auction games, and that's by today's standards. All the paintings have hidden values that could be as low as 0. Making a heap of money off of a fake painting, only to watch the buyer sell it to another player at a profit? Amazing.

[@monomundo]

watching your video reminded me of my mother saying “bridge is the game of Kings and poker is the King of games” - and you are absolutely right, nobody should be humiliated for loving any game.

[@tylerwarner3677]

I'd put Sequence on this list, too. It was the first board game my wife and got into. Then Settlers, then Magic, then one thing led to another and - well, here we are. And Sequence is still fun.

[@3MBG]

There are plenty of games I missed out that I think are worthy of mention. Either due to me not playing them (mancala for example) or just running out of spaces on the list (Uno). What classic and toy store games do you rate alongside modern board games?

[@RobertKonigsberg]

Othello, and the whole genre of playing card games: euchre, cribbage, pinochle, gin rummy. Let's play cribbage!

[@quibily]

Mancala, Othello, and Mah Jong. Though, I'm not sure if Mah Jong would count. I'd never heard of it until I moved to China seven years ago.

[@spot7006]

Great video! I still have several of these in my collection. I'd also recommend Dominoes, Cribbage, Mastermind, and Rummikub.

[@matthewcrawford4216]

Chinese checkers, checkers, Life and Uno are some classics that get pulled out all the time when I let my kids pick out whatever they want to play. I have need to pick up a couple more classics because people still enjoy them and know the rules. Often times it is difficult to get non gamers to try new games due to absorbing new rules (my Dad can’t stand learning new things) What a great list. It’s so upsetting to see the self righteous disapproval from board game geeks of what is or isn’t “acceptable or good”. I agree with what others said, play what you like! Always enjoy your very excellent analysis of this hobby.

[@davidgreenberg8456]

Chinese Checkers, Clue, Mastermind, Cribbage, and Gloomhaven.

[@experiencednoob8400]

stratego was my first ever experience with board games, and is no doubt the inspiration for my love of them today. I'm so glad this review mentioned it, as I think it can still easily hold up to many other games, and is over just a very fun game where you have a lot of agency and suspense

[@rjamsbury1]

IMHO Diplomacy is the purest board game ever, and bridge the best game ever. Neither are easy to casually play though. Can't agree with you about Monopoly, Yahtzee and Risk - they're fine for introducing youngsters to games but quickly get tedious. Go, Scrabble, backgammon and chess are timeless classics and should never be forgotten as options.

[@foxbear60]

The only game of Stratego I've ever played was the newer 4-player version. My wife and I crushed two friends who were highly competitive by taking the most ridiculous strategy ever: walk towards each other. For whatever reason, we both immediately went for the win condition and got it. I've temporarily retired as undefeated. Best that record!

[@gregrld]

Scotland Yard has been a favourite of mine ever since it first came out. I still own our family's first edition.

[@eugenb.8448]

Great list. One of my faves is Careers. Still enjoyable and brings back fond memories.

[@3MBG]

Oh man, I had a copy of careers as a kid, and I am still mystified that one of the most prestigious careers was something like "uranium mining".

[@eugenb.8448]

3 Minute Board Games Yeah. The way the board changed over the years was interesting and reflected how career choices changed but also how society changed. I still pull it out now and again and it’s fun to play and to comment on how my old 60s era copy reflects a vastly different time than today. My kids find it a fascinating statement on 50s and 60s thinking regarding careers and employment options, especially how it’s skewed to sexist biases of the time

[@ratguy69]

I live pretty close to the Kapiti Bridge Club and have been thinking for some time now of doing what you suggested. MIght have to wander down some time and have a chat with them.

[@moofinly]

When you said Go, my heart melted. I have loved being a Go enthusiast, and I used to take it so very seriously. It's enlightening. It takes so long to truly learn, and you always learn so much about YOURSELF along the way. it's a philosophy and I love it.

[@3MBG]

Yeah, the game makes me feel like an ignorant child, but in a good way

[@scyldscefing3913]

Love both the idea and the execution of this list. Nicely done.

[@ryanstieglitz8077]

Fantastic video and great list! Very well said, your message is spot on. I would always include Clue on a list like this, just from nostalgic reasons from me playing it so much when I was a kid.

[@lisamatthews2369]

Blokus is a classic that often comes out at our games nights! We like to keep a good variety going :)

[@danielastin9445]

Love your attitude man, great video! Also recently picked up a 80's Ravensburger copy of Scotland Yard, can't wait for my kids to be old enough to play it.

[@1987Hades]

I agree with your partner that you need a backgammon board! Then do a review of it! Good work on this vid, love the message behind it, thank you

[@vj7248]

i would recommend picking up backgammon. dice, mancala, backgammon, chess, go, and 52 playing cards deck essentially nets you the entire history of board gaming prior to modern era which i think is neat.

[@TheMartinChronicles]

Don't forget backgammon.🙂

[@ceramicchicken1]

If you like Scotland Yard you should check out “Clue: The Great Museum Caper”. It is the reason I got in the hobby and holds a special place in my heart. The board is similar is similar to clues board with the separate rooms with hallways. Except it’s oddly a “3D” plastic board that sits an inch of the table, so it’s interesting to see on the table. One player takes the role of the their and receives a pad of paper with the map drawn on it. On their turn they can move 3,2,1, (or I think 0) spaces. The guards start the game by taking little stand up paper minis of famous paintings and placing them throughout the board in the colored rooms as they see fit. They then also receive 6 cameras that can be placed anywhere and matter if you place them orthography or diagonally. Guards then move by rolling two 6 sided dice. One is a normal 1-6 spaces of movement, and the other is the random action the guard can take that turn. The thief is trying to move through the board and take paintings by landing on the spot on their pad of paper. The next turn they move their 3,2,1, or 0 spaces and remove the painting from the board. So now all the guards have a General idea where you are to find you. It’s so much fun and the end chase when the thief has been spotted is only highetend (for my family at least) by the hilarity that guards need to land on the thief to capture them (or that’s how my family plays) so it just seems like a bunch of bumbling guards are diving after this person. It’s definitely not a game for everyone, and the random movement and action of the guards may frustrate some players. But I love it!

[@ElainaRoberts]

We picked up a copy of this at the Goodwill and my daughter has fallen headlong into love with this game. She wants to always be the art thief :D We have a closet of games, but I think she'd play this one every week she comes over for game night if she could. Ok, this and Mageling, but this is definitely high on the list.

[@ericfrancis7816]

This! This is brilliant! It's the best deconstruction I've seen of the exclusionary gamer mindset, and also a fabulous evaluation of classic games. Go, BTW, has long been on the top of my list of "games I'd love to learn but are very intimidating." :)

[@hanng1242]

Mahjong (not the American version)? Shogi?

[@DnDarrenJ]

I loved playing Shogi with my cousin in high school in the 80s! Haven't played in years now.

[@t.b.1568]

One of the greatest channels excellent reviews and lists ALWAYS! I want to thank you for your amount of time and great work you spend. Its always a pleasure to watch thank you.

[@legalmeeple53]

What a great idea for a top 10...keep up the good work!

[@johnholmes9730]

You definitely need to try backgammon. It shows that the often hated roll-and-move can be used in a strategic game. It really shines in matchplay (as it gives the skill of a player time to shine) but is still fun casually as the inherent chance of the dice rolls always gives a new player a chance at winning.

[@revimfadli4666]

Tbf the "often hated" version of roll-and-move commonly used relatively recently often lacks any mitigation or agency whatsoever. In contrast, Backgammon not only uses it as pre-decision input randomness, but you also have multiple dice to pick from, that you can allocate to different pieces often in multiple ways. That is part of what enabled it to become strategic. And to think that the game managed to do so two whole millenia before the current trend of said hated version...

[@bondaluh]

I like playing backgammon, and I totally suck at chess, but I absolutely love that you mentioned the musical, which happens to be my favorite musical of all time.

[@christines3638]

Candy Land is a great game to play with people who suffer from moderate dementia. Its bright colors are attractive. It encourages them to be social. To them, picking the next card is exciting. Its easy to remember how to play and is low conflict. They love landing on the candy spots and talk about candy they enjoyed as children. I highly recommend it.

[@eselectrician]

Two spots wasted on Bridge and Poker? I think they should have been honorable mentions, lumped under a single umbrella of "A Deck of Cards." There are plenty of great classics, Spades, Crazy Eights (original Uno), Hearts, Solitaire variants, Old Maid, Go Fish, War, and so on. Lol. I own Stratego and love it, but I'm on the hunt for Electronic Stratego which spices it up by 200%. You forget Operation!

[@3MBG]

Electronic Stratego, I remember seeing that in stores as a kid and having a severe case of the "wants"

[@TracerQQ]

@@3MBG I never played Stratego, but always wanted it :D

[@TracerQQ]

Honestly I think a deck of cards games should have take up more slots in the top 10, Euchre and Cribbage are fantastic, Bridge and Poker are just the most prolific.

[@eselectrician]

@@TracerQQ I agree card games are fantastic, and there could be a top 10 list of things to do with a deck of cards. But the deck is just components, if I gave you a bag of wooden bits and said here are 30 different rule sets to implement using this bag-o-bits it's not such a great game(s). I wouldn't be able to place Rummy 500 or Spades in a lineup of top 10 games even though I enjoy them.

[@3MBG]

You can do a lot with a deck of cards. I also enjoy blackjack, but not at casinos as 8 decks means you cant't count cards easily.

[@DanielHolding]

Casual Snack Poker is genuinely one of me and my mates favourite evening games.

[@maxpowr90]

Sad you didn't mention Cribbage. It's technically a board game :P.

[@3MBG]

I have not played cribbage. One of the many things about lists like this is I can only cover what I know. Still, have heard loads of people love cribbage.

[@amieridley1150]

Cribbage is a really great game if you get the chance to play it - I swear the reason me and my siblings can all add small numbers fast is years of trying to beat Dad at cribbage 😂 Also yes your partner is absolutely right on with the Back Gammon - another game we played pretty constantly, and now our kids play it too. Even though its dice based, how you use them to move is important so its a nice mix of random + choice. And a nice set feels so good to play with. Keep up the awesome work - its great to hear from someone who really puts people at the heart of playing games

[@wyatth2992]

Darts is awesome! I have both an English and an American board in my basement. Most game nights involve a game or two of darts just so that we can get up and stretch out. Also, because darts offer enough variety of possible games to play that everyone has a favorite. I've spent more time playing either darts or poker than I have all other games combined. Thank you for the mention.

[@3MBG]

Darts is a good time, and so good as a spectator sport too ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY!

[@michaelmelen9062]

I love backgammon. But... you must use the doubling cube, which means there must be money involved. We play for 25 cents per game, so with a redouble you are up to a dollar to the winner. A lot of fun, especially with a glass of sherry. Crokinole also. Wonderful.

[@revimfadli4666]

Or you can play up to X points without money, where the cube doubles a game's point(s)

[@bogardeth]

I love Go, my girlfriend bought me a beautiful set, but so hard to master.

[@tychay]

If the reverse side of the board has a 9x9 board I recommend you find anyone and play that side. Since the rules are so easy to teach, the 9x9 board is a great way to get non-Go players enamored with the game. I still enjoy the first time anyone discovers the ladder. Their eyes light up!

[@fluffnight]

Chinese Checkers as well. I recently taught and played that with my boyfriend (who I do play board games with). However, I play Hong Kong style which is slightly different than regular Chinese Checkers. (You can move further hand have crazier combos in the game.) This past year I also pulled it out and was able to get a game of three with my parents! I used to always play with my dad, but it was a rare sight to have my mom join in. (I also used to always play Go and two person Big 2 with my dad. He actually taught me poker hands a long time ago!)

[@kgeorg1979]

I loved Scotland Yard so much as a kid in Germany. Am having trouble getting my family to play it with me now.

[@arenson9]

Are you familiar with the Pure Diplomacy variant? Seven spaces, all with a supply center. Each space can reach each other space. Seven players. Go!

[@3MBG]

Damn, that is taking the idea to its most refined level.

[@hausser3024]

I used to hate board games. Mostly because i thought of board games as things like Scrabble or Monopoly. I would literally cringe every time people asked me to play these type of mainstream games. Then i tried real hobby board games and discovered that i LOVED them. The moral of the story is don't let utter trash like the games they sell at Wal-Mart define your board game experience. And yes Monopoly is utter and complete GARBAGE.

[@Anthraxinternational]

The original landlord game was about how evil capitalism is. So its supposed to be bad actually.

[@pnutbutrncrackers]

So I guess you're saying that if Steven Hart didn't like a game or that it's carried at Walmart that means the game is "utter trash" for everybody. I'll remember that next time I see Pandemic, LOTR, Santorini, Horrified, etc. at WM. BTW, I used to play Scrabble with my intelligent next door neighbor, and she found real enjoyment in it. I'm glad you found games that you enjoy (which some wouldn't). Can't you appreciate that others might have different tastes?

[@hausser3024]

@@pnutbutrncrackers I think games like Monopoly etc are bad for the hobby and make people feel like board gaming is trash, because most of what people think of as board games are the mast produced trash they sell at big box stores. When the hobby has so much more expansive games to enjoy.

[@pnutbutrncrackers]

@@hausser3024 I'm not a fan of Monopoly myself, but how does your argument make mathematical sense? For every person who likes a game you would approve of, there are several hundred times that many who like and play Monopoly. Like it or not, Monopoly and other "big box store" games have kept board gaming alive for the better part of a century.

[@007Kiristo]

Great list, I agree with all of it. There are some good classics that are classics for a reason. Still hold up and a lot of modern games are just a fancier version of them. Like Dice Throne looks so pretty, but I know it's just Yahtzee with health bars. I love darts. Not sure I'd count it as a board game, seems like a stretch, but it's damn fun. Have had a fancy board in my cart for many months now. I really like the poker suggestion to have the winner buy a new board game with their winnings. I have almost purchased Stratego a few times, too. Loved that game as a kid. I have Star Wars Rebellion, which I feel scratches the itch for it though. Monopoly sucks though.

[@holtth4]

Thank you for this! I recall this sentence from a interesting book about art history (Gombrich, The Story of Art): 'There are no wrong reasons for liking a statue or a picture...There are wrong reasons for disliking a work of art.' A very humane and inclusive view of art - and I like your message as it applies something similar to board games. One game that gets ripped on a lot by serious board gamers is Talisman. I've played countless games of Talisman with my family even though I have plenty of other games I'd rather play. Why? Because my son has absolutely loved it from the age of 3, and my wife has fond childhood memories of playing the game. Therefore I play with them, and we have a wonderful time together, spending time with each other and some very nice memories built in the process. Like the time I need to simply role 2 to 6 to exit the woodlands, take a new destiny card and teleport near the center of the board and to certain victory. I rolled a one, lost a battle, had to leave the Woodlands, eventually, died and my son went on to win. To me that's the real pleasure of boardgaming - the time spent with people and the stories you create. What are my other options? Refuse to play any games with them until they realize how bad Talisman actually is and how great the other games in my collection are? Nonsense, let's all play and enjoy it together.

[@3MBG]

Talisman was my first hobby game, played it in 1987 at primary school. It's a big reason I am in the hobby. Sure, its random and silly, but it tells a story. We don't play Talisman anymore, but relic hits the table once a year or so (The Warhammer 40,000 reskin of talisman). It's our go to game for evenings when everyone is stressed out by work and life, and we just want to roll dice and have fun stuff happen. Also, that statement about art is absolutely true. I loathe how declarative people are about art, what's a good sign, film, book and if you like something they don't, they grill you like its a Phd Defence.

[@NicholasSando]

I liked this video a lot. Go, Gomaji (it's vaguely like 4 Square/othello/reversi), and the Asian chess vsrients are quite popular where I've been based in Asia, but what really surprised me was how quick, competitive and popular mahjong is. I'd always thought of it as a Gray Power Game and never actually bothered with anything but mahjong solitaire. I was happily wrong. Oh, and Steph is right, you two should get a classy backgammon set that reeks of antique class.

[@ericclausen3874]

Masterpiece and Survive

[@camipco]

Several of these games I won't play because they are too hard. Chess, Go, Scrabble and Bridge all make me feel relatively stupid.

[@louism2970]

Good list. I would personally put Scrabble at number 1, it is a fantastic timeless design. I would also maybe add Cribbage, Mahjong, and Scattergories, why not. If an over-simplified version of the game is good for the Spiel des Jahres, it should be good for this list :). Most importantly, I would put backgammon into the main list (older than Go according to wikipedia), the Big Three games belong together. Backgammon, the game of the Middle East, Man vs Fate. Chess, the game (not originally from but which became ) of the West, Man vs Man. Go, the game of East Asia, Man vs Himself.

[@3MBG]

OH, i like that comparison of the three ancient games. That's classy.

[@louism2970]

@@3MBG those words are not mine. There's a similar discussion here for instance www.kiseidopublishing.com/three.htm

[@emmaplaysgreen2849]

J, you definitely have to let S teach you how to play backgammon! I learnt to play back at the end of the 90s when there was a copy of the Hoyle's Board Games app floating around my former workplace. It included a great version of backgammon and a more complex version of Parcheesi that was also very addictive. Backgammon has the perfect balance of luck,logic and strategy. Some classic games that I have enjoyed and also played with my kids are Mastermind, Pass the Pigs, Cluedo, Triominos, Kerplunk and Ravensburger's Labyrinth - it has different names in different countries but here in France, it's just called Labyrinth! As far as Monopoly goes, my Mum gave us as copy of Monopoly World Edition (but in French) which is a much shorter game. I still wouldn't say it's my favourite game ever but I like this version for something that is still familiar to most people but without all the baggage that come with standard Monopoly. I also got sick of standard Monopoly as my ex always played with the same damn strategy every single time. He kept my copy of the game post divorce.

[@3MBG]

I think we may be getting a nice copy for our shared XMAS gift to ourselves.

[@seansteel328]

The rule for poker is have a buy-in, so all your friends put in a note (the amount obviously depends on your group, but the idea is a small enough amount that you aren't going to be disappointed when you lose it) and everyone puts it in the pot and gets the same amount of chips and you play until someone takes the pot. It costs you maybe £10 if you lose (but going to the movies can cost that amount, at some cinemas) but you still have money on it (we tried playing it with monopoly money and no one takes it seriously without jeopardy) and the winner takes maybe £60 or so, that's a decent little win

[@lamossus9030]

Definitely not as popular or influential as games in this list, but still a great classic game - Durak (and another variant of playing it with a bit more depth - Perevodnoy Durak). It's a Russian card game that can be played with a regular deck of cards. The rules are very simple but provide enough depth to make it a really nice filler game. Not something I'd bring to the table during board game night but still a pretty fun game

[@3MBG]

Durak is one i have never heard of, will look it up

[@emperorspock3506]

Absolutely agree, top filler game with a standard deck of cards (with the 2-5 cards and jokers removed). No weird twisted trick-taking rules, very fast, very easy to learn, offers you a good amount of agency, yum!

[@zacdredge3859]

Teffy is right; Backgammon is an underrated game and still going strong however millennia later since its original form.

[@patrickgagnon1019]

Funny thing, I had never heard of Scotland Yard before watching this video last week, but yesterday at the thrift store I found a barely used copy for cheap, instant buy!

[@3MBG]

Score!

[@pnutbutrncrackers]

If I could give this video 25 upvotes, I would (btw, who downvotes this?). Jay has played more board games than 99.whatever % of people on the planet, and has one of the best YT channels on the subject. Yet he doesn't let it go to his head. He doesn't look down on 'the uninitiated', he resists what C. S. Lewis called "chronological snobbery", and this video is a sterling example. I really like, or would like, almost every game he mentions here, plus a few additions like cribbage and Clue. If I made my own "Top 100 Board Game VIDEOS of All-time", this one would certainly be on it. (applause)

[@3MBG]

Awww, thanks Hop. Most appreciated.

[@rockxhero]

I regret not picking up Scotland Yard when I saw it @ Goodwill once now.

[@shawneldridge4465]

🤠 Even though I have the Xbox 360, believe it or not I still enjoy these good fun board games. I do have a few of them already. Like Parcheesi, sorry and fishin'-opoly. Here are the ones I have to buy yet. Connect four, candyland, The game of Life, battleship, trouble, Yahtzee, checkers, chutes and ladders and then there's mouse trap. Even though they're old board games but they are so fun to play after all these years. Great review and all that,i enjoy the video

[@frenchy1138]

Great video as always, but no love for Clue(do)? Roll to move aside, I think it still stands up as a deduction game. (And cinema classic)

[@stevenrobinson3451]

Scotland Yard is fantastic, I’ve yet to find a hidden movement game I like better.

[@NickSibicky]

Hooray for Go!

[@KrazuulLevioth]

I would like to see the mentioning of chess would (nearly) always include the other (older) chess variants: Xiangqi and Shogi (the latter I would choose to play over western chess) :)

[@jonathanpickles2946]

I've played all of the game outside the top 3 and would not play any of them except Bridge again - but then I would not play most modern games either & I am a long way removed from being evangelical. I am dreadful at a few of them, including bridge, which doesn't help & do not enjoy them enough to try to get better! As pointed out elsewhere Scotland Yard was SdJ in 1983 and that should remind us that it did not start out as a hobby game thing, in fact I am not sure that distinction was really recognised until the 90s with hobby gamers from outside of Germany turning up at Spiel. The original Euros were just the best of the German family games market (best in terms of strategic depth, clean mechanisms and originality). It did push more towards the heavier games peaking with Tikkal I would say but then has gone back to much lighter stuff and even the Kennerspiele is lighter then my taste these days. Really liking games does not give any overlap. I like computer games, my nephews like computer games & the young guys at the wargames club like computer games. But I like RPGs, my nephews like driving games and the wargamers like shooters. Of course we all like GTA.

[@jasonmetcalfe4695]

finally a video of yours with games i've heard of

[@3MBG]

Ha, sorry.

[@jasonmetcalfe4695]

All good... What is your opinion of Monopoly deal (the card variant)

[@3MBG]

You've got me there, not played that one.

[@jasonmetcalfe4695]

Try it sometime, it's streamlined just enough to take the monotony out of it, and can be rather competitive.... and there is such a thing as a "quick game of monopoly" using this one... in fact between that and "Phase 10" it's enough to start world war 3... with Phase 10 we're trying to add new variants to make it more interesting and a little less cut throat

[@markrhodes9632]

Police quest! Loved it as a kid

[@ripwolfe]

Doesn't speech French, wins French scrabble tournament = mind blown.

[@3MBG]

Here's the news story from the time. Still hurts my brain. www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11484662

[@amieridley1150]

And (because games brings out the chatty in me) - a couple of other games getting pretty constant play with the kids at the moment is Mastermind and Uno. While these wouldn't be my first choice, the kids love playing them because they get a great feeling of mastery when winning. And the long goal is kids who want to learn more games so playing these games with them builds that positive relationship with us as parents and games.

[@3MBG]

Uno is a great game with kids, We played the heck out of it at primary school at lunch. I think it was that group of kids who played uno where one of them brought in Talisman, which would have been my first "hobby" game. Masterminds an odd one, almost more of a puzzle than a game. But enjoyed that too

[@johchadow]

I was hoping Scotland Yard would make the list, it was my first thought of a game that would fit this list.

[@rockxhero]

I figured Stratego would (& of course, Monopoly).

[@SingularSuperNinja]

I've seen both those productions of chess. First was directed by Craig Revel Horwood, and the second one in London had the wonderful Michael Ball and Tim Howar (saw it 5 times). Do you still tread the boards?

[@3MBG]

I was never a board treader as such. I was in a band at school/university. And two of our band were the Russian and Arbiter. I was in a role more suiting my talents. Managing the sound board and singing along from behind the desk.

[@krotenschemel8558]

Much agreed with the list, though my order would be different. I'm not much of a fan of Go or Scrabble, but there's still a very valid case to be made for this game. I would have put in Ticket to Ride and Skat. Now Skat is an amazing card game, but sadly not much known outside Germany. The interesting thing is that you play a minigame first to setup the main game.

[@3MBG]

Interesting, for me Ticket to Ride is very much a hobby game. Because it came out way after I was looking in store stores at board games. But, it does fit a pretty good case for being consider a classic these days

[@tjwright]

I still like Conquest of the Empire, one of the original MB Gamemaster Series games. I've never played Risk, but I imagine it's similar... "dudes on a map". I had all three of the original Gamemaster games back in the day. I kept one, have re-acquired one... and don't care enough to get Broadsides back to pay the going rate for it. :-)

[@benjaminvanderhoff7101]

I also like othello. Love Scotland Yard and diplomacy

[@3MBG]

Othello is a solid game. Good choice

[@popmon6446]

Yay for Darts!

[@99smite]

Nice video and a list that I can agree on. What I realised is the fact that so many international gamers do care about the "Spiel des Jahres" sigil, liek you do and the people from the Dice Tower and so on. What really pisses me off though is the sad fact that many games that could be really successful in Germany are not being translated and therefore remain accessible only to a small handful of German gamers. This seems so ridiculous when gamers around the world come to Essen once a year and nearly every games publisher has a booth there, but when it comes to marketing and selling games in Germany, many companies simply FAIL...

[@3MBG]

Which is a pity. The problem is i guess that so many games are really language dependent. Like it takes far less effort to translate Azul, than say "agents of smersh"

[@99smite]

@@3MBG This is true, but translating from English to German is not really such a big enterprise. We have a huge translation industry with many companies and freelancers offering their services. Very often companies fear that they might just not sell enough copies/units of a game. Furthermore, and don't get me started with the FOMFO policy of CMON, where they sell injection molded plastic miniatures in very low numbers, but refuse to restart production with the injection molds they already own and got them financed through kickstarter... Imagine, collecting all the money needed to start the production of a miniature heavy game, producing a very low number of units, then, when miniatures packs are out of stock due to limited availability and high demand refusing to restart production despite all the tools already being present and paid for... Then there is the case of gamely games, the company that publishes the "tiny epic..." games, they have a real shitty German distribution partner "Schwerkraft Verlag" ("gravity publishing"), they do not have a proper online shop, a customer cannot pay via paypal or credit card, customers have to manually make a bank account payment and manually put in the reference number, they flat out refuse to do customer support by refusing to send missing parts and they need an awful lot of time to get the games translated, sadly enough, they also publish "Terraforming Mars", which is of course, out of print in the German version, most of their products are now out of print as the "Spiel" in Essen approaches, but I do not think that not doing sales for 2-3 months before "Spiel" is a valid business strategy. Most people in Germany who have professionally to do with noard games and who know the owner of Schwerkraft personally, hate this guy. HE single handedly is ruining the potential succes of all the gamelyn games, of terraforming mars and Clang!... Such a pity... Luckily there is still the option to get the english versions of above entioned games in decent online shops, althoug local games stores have difficulty offering the english versions due to legal conundrums...

[@shaneannigans]

I laughed out loud at #occupybridge 😂 BUT... I think you're onto something!

[@3MBG]

Take the power back! #occupybridge

[@shaneannigans]

@@3MBG 🤣😂🤣

[@noeldillabough]

I have yet to play Scotland Yard....must fix that!

[@TheJimmy000]

very cool idea for a video!

[@ericwinkelmann3834]

When i was a kid i wanted to combine monopily and risk or monopily and life

[@SBNinjaPirate]

Interesting video & I like the overarching message in it. 'Don't be a dick'.

[@khristienpennanen1810]

Every time we played risk my one friend found a way to fortify Australia and then would force us to roll through the whole fight until she lost lol

[@KujoPainting]

Backgammon is great, you should give it a go!

[@3MBG]

Steph is going to take all these endorsements of backgammon and shove catalogues for really expensive copies of the game right in my face now :) I guess i know what we are getting ourselves from Christmas.

[@KujoPainting]

​@@3MBG I have one of those expensive sets, they look the business on the table, plus you get to feel like you're James Bond while playing it (even though once you know the rules you realize James Bond doesn't have a clue how to play 'double 6s I win', yeah no James, you just get an extra turn). :)

[@tychay]

@@3MBG They still make nearly the same exact backagammon set I own (from the 1970's btw). 15" classic brown and white set, my FLGS sells it for $32 USD. (Not sure if my set was leather of vinyl like the ones today). If it's anything like mine, the quality is very good and its portable and is probably the bare minimum for a "keeper" set. Backgammon sets can get almost as crazy as chess sets (or Go). Compared to those prices, $32 to have a decent travel set is worth it since you won't be traveling with one of those sets. (For Chess, I like House of Staunton pieces and a good wooden board - though that may be cheaper for me in the U.S.. For Go, the best stuff comes from Japan but it gets crazy expensive (at least here in the U.S.).)

[@michaelneufeld4515]

You mentioned that there are newer games that you think do Scotland Yard's thing but better, what are those games in your opinion?

[@3MBG]

Last Friday & Letters from whitechapel.

[@khristienpennanen1810]

Ooh I love bridge

[@Castorshells]

Blockus is great and for card games you should try Cribbage.

[@TheEmmaHouli]

I love the attitude you have to new/casual gamers, that gate keeping is one of the worst things about niche hobbies!

[@3MBG]

Cheers. yeah, I've been in the hobby for a long long time, and I really get heated about this. Especially when its people who have been playing for a few years doing the gatekeeping as well, which it frequently is

[@TheEmmaHouli]

@@3MBG exactly! I'm a dirty causal and even I almost went down that dark path when my brother bought me a game of Harry Potter cluedo. "What is this?" I gasped "a tacky IP slaped onto a basic bitch game like cluedo?!" I dug it out with some non gamers out of a sense of obligation and had SO MUCH fun! The best games are the ones you have fun playing! Not the ones that look cool and intimidating on your shelf, Which is why Jenga (and now cluedo) always have a place in my home!

[@gregmattson2238]

ah.. I was watching this and was saying the whole time.. what about go... what about go... I love that game although I don't have time to play it anymore (yes you can play on computer but the best way is to seek out clubs in real life and play on a decent wooden board). I got to about shodan amateur level but that's peanuts compared to how far you CAN go with it. Anyways I was about thinking you were going to skip it and when I saw it in the top spot I was very happy.

[@arenson9]

I sense some fuzziness as to what counts as a toy store game. I might not count Chess and Go, as they're classic games. Backgammon possibly fits here as well, though it's less clear. I might not count Diplomacy or Risk or Scotland yard as they're hobby games (or war games) that simply predate Catan. Poker and bridge are interesting examples, though once you're opening up the list to card games, there's a whole slew of possibilities, so I'm also tempted to put them in their own category. In the end, the most interesting items on your list, to me, are items like Monopoly, Scrabble, and Yahtzee.

[@arenson9]

Looking back, the only two you mentioned that I didn't were darts (you pointed out yourself that it's a stretch, though it was certainly interesting to consider) and Stratego, which I'd throw in with Diplomacy, Risk, and Scotland Yard.

[@3MBG]

The toy store games are the ones I remember being on shelves from when i was 5-10 or so. I probably should have made that clear.

[@dadboddrumming4261]

Long time Lurker. LOVE the channel!!!! This was one of your most thought-provoking and valuable additions to the gaming hobby to date! Keep up the great work! If you're ever state-side, specifically around Pennsylvania, lets grab a beer (pint) : )

[@3MBG]

I was in Philly in 1999, lived for a brief time in New York Harriman State park, and then in Hacketstown NJ, so spent a bit of time popping into Penn state for various visits.

[@arenson9]

Speaking of chess, have you seen Tak? So good!

[@3MBG]

I have not, will check out.

[@SpoonyBard88]

It's my experience that most people have absolutely no idea that good games exist. Evangelizing the hobby seems only natural.

[@3MBG]

Talking up the hobby is one thing. Evangelizing comes with other connotations. One can offer the promised land without mentioning burning in hellfire :)

[@SpoonyBard88]

@@3MBG The hell that is your idiot cousin making everybody play Cards Against Humanity at Christmas...

[@thegamesninja3119]

Bridge, and other team trick-taking games, has had longevity out of the partner dynamics.

[@KesSharann]

Monopoly is fine. Just play by the rules. Then put it away and play Acquire. Then look into more of Sid Sackson's games and collections of games he didn't make. They're classics.

[@MattyTL]

Spheres of Influence again in a video! Does someone still has the PNP files of the game ? Or know how to get them?

[@RichardArpin]

The game is available direct on Little Nuke Games Website

[@3MBG]

Yep, thanks Richard.

[@sylvansorrow]

Some I feel are a stretch. I wouldn't really consider poker a "board game" or a particular game either. More of a genre as there are endless different poker games. The ONE card game not on this list that I feel definitely belongs here is Cribbage.

[@3MBG]

Fair, poker is a family of games. Good point. But card games have always been counted as board games on this channel. 2 of my last 3 recaps are card games.

[@geoffreybawden6390]

Scrabble is the queen of board games

[@3MBG]

I have friends who would definitely agree with you.

[@teslakiteable]

Didn't know you were based in Welly! Do you host any boardgame meet-ups?

[@3MBG]

Yes and no. Yes I do, but never open ones as such. My place is not big, so its normally just me, steph and 3-4 others

[@3MBG]

If you are keen to get involved in testing for the channel, email me. Most of my games sessions these days are playing games i plan to review. Always need new people and new perspectives.

[@Bluegoose-df7if]

I love dominos and checkers and monopoly my favorite game is Monopoly

[@corytoews5222]

I've been playing Scotland Yard for years and had no idea it was technically a "toy store game". I guess that kind of gets at the underlying point you're trying to make here: we shouldn't ostracize games based on where someone bought it; if you like it, play it!

[@3MBG]

Yeah, I had no idea it won the SPJ award. But, that award seems to have changed focus over the years. When scotland yard came out, it had TV ad spots in NZ and was only sold in toy stores. I remember the "on the hunt for mister X" ads

[@tychay]

@@3MBG Yes, the SdJ has changed a lot. The first winner was Hare and Tortoise and the second was Rummikub (basically rummy with tiles)! They've tried to come back to its original meaning (great board game for general audience or families) which is why they created the Kennerspiel for the hobbyists. I think the most recent SdJ winner (Just One) is a great example of this: even though I haven't seen it for sale in toy/calendar/bigbox stores, it is a great party game right up there with Codenames (another SdJ winner). I saw the previous winner, Azul, for sale at Target in the U.S.. Great game, but I don't think it should have won the SdJ. I think it should have been a Kennerspiel nominee. I believe it got put in the general category only because it is an abstract game (abstract game = general audience to most board game hobbyists).

[@VGInterviews]

Everyone who claims to hate monopoly 99% doesn't even know the actual rules of monopoly

[@3MBG]

Agreed. but even playing with the proper rules (auctions, no free parking etc) it's still not the best game. The best thing about the proper rules is that they dramatically reduce the playing time making the game a much tighter experience.

[@VGInterviews]

@@3MBG yeah, it is not the best but it can be quite fun, and as you said the main effect the "true rules" cause is reducing the play time, which I think is the main problem with monopoly, the extremely drawn out games with 2 properties left on the board that nobody manages to land on and everyone has 2/3 of each color group so that is when all hell breaks lose .....but it can be fun tho! Lol

[@whoisbatman]

Unlike many of the people who commented, I think this video kinda missed the mark. I click to watch a video about 10 classic or toy store games that don't suck. Okay, but what I get is 5 games that are, as you call it, lifestyle games: bridge, poker, chess, go, and scrabble. Yah, no shit they don't suck. If they did, they wouldn't still be around and millions of people wouldn't play them. (Also, two of those being card games is kind of a cheat, in my opinion.) But I literally know no one in my board game hobby group (of around 200 members) who would turn their nose up to any of those games and go: "You play SCRABBLE? What peasantry is this?" So again, it kind of missed the mark for me to include those. The other five are alright picks, with Yahtzee, Scotland Yard, Risk, Diplomacy, and Stratego being legit things you might call a classic game that influenced later games and which you can still buy in toy stores today. Maybe not Diplomacy, I haven't really seen that game being sold anywhere.

[@RichardArpin]

Way to get into the spirit of the video! Really uplifting and encouraging to see your positivity around here

[@whoisbatman]

@@RichardArpin This is kind of a weird comment to make. Were you that bothered by me not entirely agreeing with the games picked in this video? I don't recall anyone saying that you can't have some mild criticism of his top 10. And it was *mild* criticism that I had, I even explained what bugged me about it and everything. So, yeah, not sure why you were bothered enough to comment on my comment with your very deep and nuanced sarcasm there, but I do hope you have a nice day!

[@RichardArpin]

@@whoisbatman to me when you're lacing your comments with soft profanity it can take on a different tone as many have encountered that sort of thing in abusive situations. I'm always reminded of the critic in Ratatouille, all the criticism in the world is worth very little in comparison to creative works. I think these videos are excellent even if I don't always see topics the same way. And in those cases where I disagree I tend to hold my words as I'm not the one running the channel. I took umbrage with the fact that your comment was mostly vinegar and not much honey.

[@whoisbatman]

@@RichardArpin Okay, I guess I see your point. Maybe one /should/ first offer praise before offering criticism. After all, it costs nothing to be kind. On the other hand, doesn't that make it an empty compliment if I do it out of a need to add "honey" to my "vinegar" just so people don't think I'm being too harsh and oh no I dashed the creator's self esteem on the cruel rocks of mild criticism woe is me... You know? Not trying to be snide, it's more of an idle musing. As for holding one's words, I don't think I'm so important that I know better than anyone else and after I have offered my criticism the person behind this channel can take it or leave it as they like. And if by some chance they've read my original comment and thought about it, maybe they can see it as a lesson in honing in on their ideas and getting their point across better in the next video they make because it obviously didn't click with 100% of their audience this time. I mean, if you're only ever praised then how can you learn and grow? Even if the criticism comes from an anonymous nobody you don't even know. (To be clear, I'm talking about legit commenting, not just assholes trying to out-asshole the other assholes.)

[@RichardArpin]

@@whoisbatman Yes, empty compliments should be avoided. In my experience it can be difficult to offer honest praise when seeing what deserves critique. However, that's when it's probably most valuable. Without taking the effort to genuinely praise someone the relationship is flimsy and even if the critique is warranted and valid the critique is typically ignored if not coming from a trusted reviewer. As for this video particularly, while the title may say "Toy Store" games, he went on to define it in the video as games you can buy at a toy store. Here in Canada all the games mentioned can be bought at our 'Toy's R Us' or other children's games stores. So the video is accurate for me as it's not about a genre of "Toy Store" games but rather the actual logistical point of purchase. Yes, I agree that learning opportunities arise from seeing where we can improve. But ethos and pathos matter just as much as logos in classical rhetoric (much to my own chagrin). As Churchill stated "Diplomacy is telling someone to go to hell and them looking forward to the trip" How does one do that? Method matters. I think any critique that states "no shit Sherlock" falls into the rhetoric for rhetoric sake rather than communicating the points cleanly and mildly. Obviously people differ on communication and style but I wouldn't expect that from a boss or coworker about my work. It's one thing for it to be about chirping me and another thing for it to be about my work. This may be our leisure to watch these videos but they were a lot of work for the creator.

[@SolidStateSoul]

Go is not older than Backgammon. Backgammon's history can be traced back nearly 5,000 years to archeological discoveries in Mesopotamia. Making it twice as old as Go.

[@levihobbs1416]

I LOVE GO.

[@tristan_840]

Chess is the best board game. Atleast for me.

[@3MBG]

Millions around the world would agree

[@tristan_840]

@@3MBG surely