10 Things in the Monster Manual That Don't Make Sense

[@xiongray]

Creatures need more vulnerabilities & resistances, and less immunities. Also, Orcas scare me because of their Intelligence.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think that would definitely make fights a little more interesting and tactical if players could find more weaknesses! And I agree, orcas are some of my favorite animals AND the most terrifying things on the planet. Way too smart!

[@wayneslater5531]

Anyone who has read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy knows that the average dolphin has an intelligence of 18. 🐬

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I haven't read those books, I need to get educated!

[@wayneslater5531]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT The books are great! They are satire, but sci-fi - frequently poking fun at humans thru the point of view of aliens... Anyway - in the series Mice and Dolphins are the two most hyper-intelligent species in the universe, and humans aren't even on the list. Lol

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Ha, that’s awesome! They definitely seem up my alley, I’ll have to check them out!

[@appidydafoo]

Well, it is a fact that John C. Lilly never gave acid to an Ogre and tried to teach it English, so I'm going with Dolphins on this one

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

You got me there, BUT I bet an ogre has fought an ooze before, which is basically the same thing!

[@omnivice14]

I think for rats, they're just so common that you see one in a dnd setting and think 'Oh, a rat. Anyway.' Their "stealth" is in their commonality. You don't really think twice about it. Same with cats or small birds. If anything, I have Druid characters roll Deception rather than Stealth for common creatures (which uses their own charisma versus the creature's dex) to see if they successfully act like those creatures. Makes for interesting shenanigans.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think that’s a great way to run it! You’re right, a rat definitely attracts less attention than a dragon! I just think it’s silly their stealth is so low when in real life rats are good at it!

[@donniejefferson9554]

Exactly. For a creature of theory size and commonality, they aren't particularly sneaky. For a creature as large and rare as a dragon, it is pretty sneaky

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I guess that's a fair point, but I'd argue that rats can be pretty sneaky sometimes! Not always, but I think they deserve more than a +0!

[@drakegrandx5914]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT That's actually one of those things that get lost in nuance due to how simplified 5E's rule system is. By itself, rats aren't exactly sneaky, just hard to notice due to their size. It makes sense that an ambush predator (especially one with camouflaging hide, not to mention centuries of experience processed through superhuman intellect, such as a Green Dragon) would have a far superior Stealth score. The problem is, as you pointed out, that size should play a factor. 3.X actually addresses this through "size modifiers": each size below Medium (Small, Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine) gets an iterative +4 on Hide and a -4 on Grapple (and similar checks, such as against being pushed or disarmed), whereas for each size category above Medium (Large, Huge, Gargantuan, and Colossal) it's the other way around. Size modifiers are even used for the whole "bigger=easier to hit" debate, with creatures below Medium getting iterative +1 AC and creatures above Medium getting iterative -1 AC (ironically, though this makes more sense than 5E's mechanical approach of "being Small only has disadvantages", it would also be completely broken in 5E due to how bounded accuracy works). I want to clarify, though, that "3.X did this better" only applies as long as we are exclusively talking about rule design. The moment we get into the actual application of those rules, you still get dumb shit like Shadow Demons having a Move Silently check just 4 points higher than that of a Juvenile dragon just because of the latter's levels, or Dire Elephants getting listed with a Climb bonus because of technicalities, or the obscenity that is Monster Manual II where almost every monster with a CR above 16 (including some epic-level monsters) have an AC... below 10. Not to mention the fact that monsters' natural armor bonuses make absolutely no sense when put next to each other, and are arbitrarily chosen just fit the monster's CR.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s really interesting, it’s a shame they didn’t try to build on and improve that system instead of just tossing it out. Thanks for the insight, I always love hearing about the weirdness of other editions!

[@grr-OUCH]

I change things whenever I find something to be "off" to me in a monster stat block. That makes me happier, and the only players that notice are the players that try to know the monsters better than the DM.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Totally fair, I just thought this would be a fun video to make! But yes, changing things up as you see fit is definitely the way to go!

[@saskcurt]

For the rat vs adult black dragon stealth, older additions had adjustments to stealth (Hide) based on the size of a creature. So a tiny creature would get +8 and a huge creature would get -8. The chart was unnecessary but I wish they had baked some of those adjustments directly into the stat blocks in the monster manual.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That honestly makes a lot of sense! I can see why they would want to simplify it but you’re right, I wish they’d incorporated that somehow!

[@elgatochurro]

SWADE is just better

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I’ll have to look into it! How do they handle stealth?

[@elgatochurro]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT roll stealth, roll notice. no passive notice or stealth. all skill checks are usually Target Number 4.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s interesting, but it would still require them to give the rat a good stealth score! So hopefully the took it’s small size into account!

[@mrmuffins951]

My favorite contrast to the Beholder is that even the Unicorn gets Legendary Actions

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Honestly! It’s insane when you think about it!

[@flikersprigs5641]

noble's strength is actually undervalued because nobles in feudal society would be warriors and would have a much better diet with more meat than commoners and so they'd gain more muscle and there for be stronger

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I can see this argument, but I think commoners could have some raw strength as well depending on their line of work. But definitely one of my weaker points, I think the others are stronger!

[@flikersprigs5641]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT i mean I'm not arguing the other ones but no, nobles would train since childhood to fight and they'd get a better diet, a commoner would very much not be as strong as a noble.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I suppose like with commoners it would depend on the noble - while they had training and better diets, that doesn’t mean each one of them was a paragon of strength. And vice-versa, I think you’d have plenty of commoner that, while they lacked formal training, were still strong from years of hard labor. It just stuck out to me as a weird one!

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT You want to know where the legend of the superiority of the English longbow comes from? Not from the bows. They had the same bows on the continent as in England. No, the superiority of the English longbow comes from the law that forced the English peasants from ages 15-60 to train with the longbow on Sundays and holidays.We are talking 200 lbs. bows here. But that was only in England. That's the reason the longbow didn't feature that much in the wars on the continent. The only ones there trained with and had the strength for the longbow were the soldiers and, yes, the nobles. And then add the ability to move and fight in heavy armour. And sure, you will find exceptions on both sides, but on the average?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s a fair point, training can absolutely make you stronger. Of the points I made in the video, this one is probably the weakest, and the fact I’ve had a lot of folks in the comments question it says a lot! There’s some logic there, but on the surface it does seem strange (especially with the Monster Manual choosing to use a picture of an older man)

[@bengrace8808]

Dolphins obviously aren't that smart, they CLEARLY couldn't, for example, write a KZbin comment. I mean, how would they? With our fins?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

No way. They definitely couldn't create a KZbin channel and pretend to play DnD in order to hide their assimilation into human society. We wouldn't do that!

[@deKahedron]

Nobles are almost universally better fed than commoners, and many of them take up hastiludes and other sports with the free time they have (which commoners don't have).

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Very true, but personally I think being better fed would reflect more in a higher constitution. And I don’t doubt that they’d be more fit, but in terms of raw strength I think commoners would have the edge due to a tougher lifestyle. But I can see your points!

[@guyman1570]

​@@TheBardsCollegeYTyeah higher CON but weaker STR makes sense!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think so! Though I can see both sides.

[@TwinSteel]

🥳🫂👍🏿 The rat vs dragon sneak off has a dark horse contender it seems

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Apparently! Though I'd love to see a dragon get under my sink and chew through all my cleaning supplies (definitely not a true story...)

[@TwinSteel]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT maybe a dragon that shapreshifts into a mouse - synergy

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Now THAT'S a perfect solution!

[@TwinSteel]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT 😄 🐉 🐭

[@spicyboi544]

Bards college: "these things make no sense, do u have an explanation" WOTC: "...DoN't QuEsTiOn It"

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

My biggest fear for the new Monster Manual!

[@mavfan21]

Great video and it reminded me of another issue I have with most Bad Guy books. There's no entries for weaker/stronger versions of each creature and rarely is there any instruction to DMs to "make your Orcs/Goblins/Ettins, etc" reflect that diversity. There should be a couple of weaker Orcs and stronger Orcs in each raiding party. The PCs should come across a weak and tired old Owl Bear at some point. Great DMs figure this out on their own, but there's very little to no advice on doing this.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Some of the additional books did this to an extent by giving different roles for orcs and other monsters, but some guidelines on varying up your monsters would be nice! I think the new DMG actually does have some language about this!

[@drakegrandx5914]

In regard to ettins: I think the reason they get those advantages (not the only edition in D&D where they get something like that, while other multi-headed creatures don't, anyway) is that ettins actually have two independent brains, they are basically two people in one body, whereas that isn't usually the case for things like chimeras and hydras (or at least, not constantly so; there are some sources that describe the heads of a D&D chimera as functioning independently from each other, for example, but that's not a constant trait like it is for ettins).

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That would make sense, but I still think having multiple heads, even if they’re one consciousness, would help with safes for their perceptions. For example, blinding one head wouldn’t blind the other eyes. But that argument definitely resonates more!

[@sharondornhoff7563]

Possibly extra heads don't count toward such benefits if they're *animal* heads, not sentient ones. A chimera has one dragon head (sentient) and two animal (goat, lion), so it's effectively got one consciousness that prevails over the other two heads' instincts and reflexes in a pinch. A hydra's heads are all animalistic, so they can't communicate effectively among themselves and aren't particularly coordinated in their actions, sometimes working at cross-purposes like an IRL two-headed snake trying to eat the same mouse with both mouths. Only the ettin's heads have worked out plans and tactics between themselves in the past, and coordinate their maneuvers well enough to take advantage of the benefits in question.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Those are fair points, but the hydra DOES get those benefits like the Ettin! I always thought of their heads the way you describe them here, but then I feel like the Chimera's heads should confer the same benefits. Just a bit strange, but I can see the argument for separate minds!

[@Crits-Crafts]

I always thought that nobels having higher strength was due to better training. Historically, nobels would often be trained with a sword or rapier. No match for a trained soldier but better than your average commoner. That said, a farmer or blacksmith or stonemason would be stronger because if the back braking labor

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think that's definitely their logic, and I could see dexterity getting a bump since that's their weapon of choice in the Monster Manual. But I agree that a labor-based lifestyle would probably give at some commoners comparable strength!

[@Crits-Crafts]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT I'll be honest, I don't use the all 10s commoner... Depending what I want, I'll move up to 4 points around to suit. So my librarian has 13 int, 12 charisma & 10 wisdom but only 7 str & 8 con... Just mixes it up a bit if (when) my players start a fight. And by limiting myself to moving only 4 points, they don't get ridiculously over or under powered stats. Even a 14 in one stat isn't op

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think that's a fantastic way to run them! Thanks for sharing, spreading around a few points here and there really does make each person feel unique.

[@salty-nick]

I'd be sooo happy if the background music could be a bit quieter 🙏 harder to hear you and to focus at this level.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thanks for the feedback! I can tone it down a bit for future videos, it can be hard to tell how loud is TOO loud when hearing it through headphones vs. speakers vs. in editing software. So that's good to know!

[@salty-nick]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT Thank you! Probably best to err on the side of "too quiet". People with auditory processing issues will love you.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Good to know, I really appreciate that insight!

[@guyman1570]

​@TheBardsCollegeYT and upload your own captions if you don't mind?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I’ll look into it! I’d imagine it’s as easy as copying my script in and going from there. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@bc4198]

Fascinating! It's too bad D&D hasn't had an army of nerds in 50 years to catch these things before 😬

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

If only! Though I know I’m not the first to think of some of these!

[@gamemasters]

heh awesome food for thought! I DO hope that the new MM addresses some of these issues. (I love to black pudding mini, always cool to see a mini that can fit another inside of it haha)

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Me, too! And yes, I don't use it in videos that often but I'm a fan of that mini as well, really conveys to the player that "you're slowly being consumed"

[@DucksAndCatnip]

i thought this was a 120k view video ngl. good luck out there dude, remember me when you get famous if i was you, i would release the individual parts of teh video as Shorts ("Things in the Monster Manual That Don't Make Sense #X")

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thank you so much, that means a lot! That’s not a bad idea about the shorts too, might have to do that!

[@DucksAndCatnip]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT loved the video dude. makes me want to get back into dming. i hope you had/have a good day

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thank you so much, you too!

[@Drakalester]

Iron golems are immune to fire, but that implies the material doesn’t react to fire, meaning the golem would be impossible to make.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That's a great point! Maybe the idea is that the form is created first, then imbued with magic that makes it immune to fire? Either way, strange!

[@Drakalester]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT They should give it a threshold of dmg, and if the fire dmg goes over than it starts to melt. I’d prefer the magic make some sense rather than just “It’s magic”.

[@Drakalester]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT This is part of a problem with fire damage too. Everyone and their dog is immune to it, despite there being a spell at every level for fire dmg.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That would be a pretty cool mechanic, is there a monster that has a damage threshold? I know structures do, but I bet that would be interesting to play with!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

True, there should definitely be some more variety with resistanes/immunities!

[@clowdde]

Nice vid bro ❤

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thanks bro! Appreciate the support!

[@guyman1570]

Actually no, Dolphins are EXTREMELY SMART!! Almost smart as a human, even.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I can respect that dolphins are VERY smart for an animal, but I don’t think they really compare to humans in terms of learning, logic, mathematics, language, etc. I think ogres would have them beat!

[@lozm4835]

​@@TheBardsCollegeYT Dolphins can actually learn some level of arithmetic and logic.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

But to the level of a person? Maybe I'm underestimating dolphins (I'm actually a huge fan of orcas and have a lot of respect for their smarts), I just think any humanoid creature that can speak, enter society and take military commands would probably be smarter. But I like the debate!

[@DuskyPredator]

On the Chimera, I can interpret a difference. The description does mention it being influenced by the natures of its heads, but not in the same way Ettin heads can disagree eith it's heads. It must mean charming one head is all it takes. They have different heads with different natures, but only a single mind

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s a good point! I suppose if they’re all acting as one I could see that. It makes me think of the hydra though: Does this mean all of its heads don’t share a consciousness as well? I also think some of the physical conditions, like Blinded and Deafened, would still be harder to affect them with, just by sheer number of eyes and ears. But this is a good interpretation, thanks for sharing!

[@isaiahkreifels7995]

The thing about intelligence is that it mostly pertains to how well a creature can remember, learn, deduce, and solve problems- a dolphin having more intelligence than an ogre might be because they solve problems a bit better than ogres. Intelligence isn’t about what you know but how well you can acquire knowledge and apply it.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I don’t think you’re wrong, and I will 100% agree that dolphins are very smart compared to other animals. I just think we have a tendency to overstate how smart they are in comparison to a creature like an ogre, which can fit into military structures and understand at least basic things. But to be fair, it’s hard to quantify animal intelligence, especially when using the human experience as a baseline. So I can see both sides!

[@RottenRogerDM]

Thou shall not compare stats in the monster manual, that way lies madness. Signed 1e DM. They coming to take me away...

[@RottenRogerDM]

Jello and pudding have been dangerous since the 1950 cooking manuals.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Ha, wise words for sure!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Funny some of the most unassuming are the most dangerous!

[@DrDanDoesData]

The average commoners likely would be malnourished, which could explain their lower strength although maybe that should be constitution?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Good point, but I think that would affect CON more than STR like you said! Still, I could see it being a factor!

[@MastertheGamerpg]

Love your content! Keep it up!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thank you so much! Appreciate the support!

[@davidferris6709]

Great point. Perception should be an ability.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That would be interesting! Maybe an “Instinct” score!

[@danielgonzalezbasketball963]

Dolphin communication is actually pretty complex. I would say a putting ogres and dolphins both at 5 int makes sense.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

It definitely is, I’m not knocking dolphins! I could see an argument for them being the same, that seems like a good compromise

[@howirunit2033]

Ha! I always give dolphins human level intelligence!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Fair enough! They're definitely very smart, especially orcas! But smarter than Shrek? I don't know about that one!

[@howirunit2033]

@ I’d argue that they make better life choices than ogres, so they are smarter in that way. 😉😂 But seriously, if I ever ran an all aquatic campaign I’d allow PC dolphins to be psioncists.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Can't argue with that one! There is a creature called the "dolphin delighter" in Monsters of the Multiverse that have telepathy and fey-magic, so there's precedent there!

[@sharondornhoff7563]

Dolphins in D&D have been portrayed as fully sentient since 1st edition. Think of them as a fantastical version of the real-world animal - the romanticized dolphins of New-Age pop culture - not as ordinary dolphins from Earth. Not every in-game portrayal of mythical creatures has to trace its roots to medieval or classical days, after all, and D&D was born in the 1970s: if any of Arneson's or Gygax's first-generation players owned a van, it probably had dolphins painted on it alongside the rainbows and pegasi.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

This is a fair point, and looking at them that way makes a lot of sense! I just wish it was presented that way in the book! But thanks for giving the past edition's perspective, that's always really cool to see!

[@screamingblue7]

If I had a dollar for every time it got brought up that cats out to have dark vision or some other benefit (past editions had low light vision to cover that middle ground, but not so for 5e) …

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I thought about including it in this one! But decided against it since it’s so popular of a take AND technically they can’t see in total darkness. They’re changing it in the new Monster Manual though!

[@mrmuffins951]

White dragons in particular are like that one dumb dragon sibling in comparison to how wise the other chromatic dragons

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

For sure, but less wise than a common bird? I don’t know about that!

[@gregorydelve6475]

Orcas were done dirty with int 3 😂

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I think maybe a 4 (and at least as high as other dolphins). Animal intelligence is hard to quantify, and orcas ARE very smart, but compared to humans they’re still not THAT smart. But it’s hard to put that into a number for a game

[@TyanFH]

I think the shark should have the same boost to speed as a Tabaxi. That is how I have played them to up the challenge without being overkill.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

For sure, they’re speedy hunters but not faster than frog people? I don’t buy it!

[@GamingTreasureChest]

To be fair they do say that dolphins are quite smart haha. These were great because a lot of them I never really thought about but yeah swim speed is kind of messed up and they should change it up a bit depending on the monster. Great video as always

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Thank you! And dolphins are definitely smart, but a 6? I don’t know about that!

[@GamingTreasureChest]

@ haha, I think it’s a kind of joke, because they are know as smart (like owls being known as wise). let’s face it a lot of the stuff in the books are puns or jokes, especially spell components. Like an eyelash in gum for invisibility, putting gum in someone’s eye to blind them. Detect thoughts needs a copper piece, a penny for your thoughts. See invisible needs a pinch of talc, just blowing talcum powder to reveal an invisible person. Passwall needs sesame seeds open sesame to open a door haha. There are so many more too.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s a good point, I love all the spell components that are just puns!

[@MrMuddyWheels]

Wovles, crows and pigs aren't as smart as they should be. Dolphins can communicate with each other very well.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

They absolutely can, but I don’t think it’s fair to say their communication is on-par with any of our spoken languages. I think if an ogre can speak common, that’s a good sign it has them beat!

[@MitchBridges-cf6gn]

The problem with the book is it didn't pass across Gary Gygax's desk

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I don’t know, there are a lot of great things in there! But some of these, I have no answers!

[@deKahedron]

Like the ooze, a stomach is also built for desolving its victims in acid. Still very much vulnerable to poisons.

[@itap8880]

Ooze, unlike a stomach, is built to have constant contact with the environment surrounding the creature. That would at the very least warrant some resistance to things we would consider "harmful to eat".

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Fair point!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

You’d think they’d at least have resistance!

[@lozm4835]

Most poisons work on a creature's biology. Do oozes... Have biology? Aren't they basically piles of animate magic goo? I don't wanna poor old poison even worse than usual, but what is it poisoning in an Ooze?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

This is exactly why it's confusing! Just doesn't sit right with me.

[@The482075]

I think most of the beasts in D&D should have intelligence scores between 4-10. Some animals are really smart in ways that humans are not. Chimpanzees actually out perform humans in terms of memory. Whilst obviously we are smarter than chimps, they do om fact have the edge in specific ways. How birds of prey survive and hunt on wisdom alone seems odd. I think they would be intelligent to in order to investigate and track where their prey is likely to be. Also Dolphins and Orcas should be at least a 10 for intelligence. They might not have the physical capacity to build tools, however their mental capacity easily put performs most humans. If someone told me I was dumber than a Ox I'd take offence. However if someone said I was dumber than a dolphin instead of being offended I'd say "so long nad thanks for all the fish."

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I do agree that judging animal intelligence by human standards doesn’t really make sense - they have completely different lifestyles and physiologies. But I think 10 is too high! Dolphins and orcas are very smart but I think most scientists would agree that humans are a cut above the rest. Still, it feels like there should be another stat separate from Wisdom and Intelligence like “Instinct” that encompasses things like the senses and survival abilities.

[@dario5178]

Most nobles have some combat training and good diet so I can buy their improved stats

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

You’re not wrong, but I still think in terms of pure strength a commoner can match them! But I can see the arguments against that!

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

I presume nobles have more and better food (especially meat and other protein-rich food) than commoners, so they are able to become stronger. And of course most nobles during the human history were elite warriors, and nobles from the Monster Manual are trained in fencing (they have rapiers). On the other hand, most commoners probably aren't well-fed, have almost zero combat training and represent serfs and other people not suited to serve in militia (as well as noncombatants, such as most women, children and elderly). Commoners who are suited to serve in militia or town watch and have some training are considered guards and have STR13. I think your average blacksmith or lumberjack should be considered at least a Guard, if not a Thug.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s a fair way of looking at it, I definitely could’ve considered the wide range of people being a “commoner” would encompass. And I don’t doubt nobles would be overall fitter due to food and training. Perhaps the real problem is that they have only one generic stat block for commoners: Give me a section of the Monster Manual that’s just ordinary people in different professions!

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

You are always welcome to change things you don’t like The books are just a guideline

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

100%! I just thought it would be fun to go through some of the things in the Monster Manual that I think are silly!

[@MagesINC]

You are my people I have found a fellow afroed individual

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

It’s the best hairstyle out there!

[@BurningMonkey]

I wonder if the AD&D Monster Manual has the same issues... Maybe I should go look, just for giggles.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

You’ll have to report back! Sounds like a fun deep dive!

[@phoebuslore]

Technically, dolphins and whales are about as intelligent as humans (maybe more), and Orcas should definitely have an Intelligence score of at least 10.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I don't think that's QUITE true - I think it's pretty well accepted by scientists that while dolphins are smart, they don't really come close to human intelligence. Still, they have really sophisticated social and behavioral adaptations, as well as a pretty complex language for an animal, so they're definitely not dumb! I just think ogres, which are able to speak a more complicated language, understand military command structure, and in some cases integrate into society, would be smarter!

[@EpicRandomness555]

4:27 Balors are probably just made smart.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s true, they just don’t really scream “intelligence” as much as a Lich. If anything, I think they’re fine at 20 and the Lich should be higher!

[@elliotlim4823]

Cats should have darkvision!

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

They actually changed this one for the update to 5e!

[@patrickmcathey7081]

Your lich vs valor isn't really fair yes a lich spent their whole life getting that smart however balor are immortal time wise it's possible a Balor has been around 50k years. Literally fighting nonstop against other demons devils and celestials. That's a lot of combat learning against pretty strong foes it's also consistent with 3.5 where put friends and Balor were explicitly stated with the max mental stats a human could gain without magic. The idea being the best you can hope for is even trade because they are that much ahead of mortals

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s fair, immortality would definitely help! I don’t think Balor need less intelligence, but liches should have more! To me, they represent the pinnacle of evil spellcasters, and I think that would exceed a powerful fiend

[@RIVERSRPGChannel]

Well it’s WotC so…

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Fair, could've just made that the video!

[@ruprecht8520]

Bulettes have steel skin?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I believe they have armor plating all across the top of their body, but I could be wrong!

[@elgatochurro]

I'm so glad I just switched to SWADE just a far superior system, does every edition of DND better than it

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I’ve never heard of it before, I’ll have to check it out!

[@aldeenithegreat]

I can understand Ogres being stupider than even some animals. If your read the lore snippets under the statblock, there's a second titled "Legendary Stupidity", which shows just how idiotic Ogres are. However, what I CANNOT condone, is that Hill Giants also have an intelligence of 5. I understand that they're both portrayed as barely smarter than most animals, but surely being pure Giants would make the Hill Giants at least *slightly* more competent than the smelly fartbags that are DnD's Ogres. I mean, Ettins are technically the lowest of all True Giants, and they have an intelligence of 6. There's just no way that Hill Giants are on the same level as the creatures that can't even count to 10 with their hands in front of them.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

I didn't even catch that, great point! Hill giants HAVE to be smarter, thanks for pointing that out! I still contend even a dumb ogre is smarter than a dolphin, but I can at least see the debate!

[@EpicRandomness555]

1:05 White Dragons are stupid… that’s why lol.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

For sure, but they’re still smarter than a bird! And with better senses!

[@davidferris6709]

Nobles have better nutritional access

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

True, but I think that might affect CON more than STR! But I can see why it could give them an advantage.

[@targetdreamer257]

Cat… Why don’t cats have darkvision?

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That’s a classic one! Apparently they’ve changed it in the new Manual!

[@YashaSkaven]

Cant dragons also like, take class levels

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

A Druid Dragon would be unstoppable!

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

And dolphins are very intelligent - they have their own language and personal names in real life, so no doubt in a fantasy setting they easily can be smarter than ogres.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

If we’re treating them as fantasy creatures then sure! But even in real life, dolphins are great communicators but I don’t think it’s accurate to say they can communicate at the level we humans can, or that they’re nearly as smart as even children. I think an ogre would have them beat, just like the orca in the Monster Manual!

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

@@TheBardsCollegeYT I think there is a tradition of treating dolphins like magical creatures, similarly to Giant Eagles (who have INT8!) since early editions. They were considered Very Intelligent in the AD&D 1E, if I am not mistaken.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

That's interesting! I always love hearing context from earlier editions, with that in mind I can see why they would assign them an intelligence that might be higher than their real-world counterparts. Thanks for sharing, that's really cool!

[@garethhamilton1252]

Why are snakes square? A huge giant constrictor snake is 15 feet long and fifteen feet wide. Too fat to fit through a 5’ door! 😂 okay it’s more a game mechanics thing than a Monster Manual thing but it has become a running joke at out table.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

It is weird to think about how every creature fits nicely inside a square box!

[@ChewyMilk]

Neat

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Glad you liked it!

[@AbstractStew]

To be fair, white dragons are the stupid dragons.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

For sure! But less Wise than a bird? No way!

[@AbstractStew]

Fair. Also, a feral predator should have environmental awareness. I see your point. This is the same Monster Manual where cats lack darkvision and can't jump.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Ha, that’s true! Maybe I expect too much!

[@davidferris6709]

I play some ogres as being smarter than that.

[@TheBardsCollegeYT]

Yeah, it seems low but I wouldn’t mind the score if it wasn’t literally less than an animal!