10 Worst Fantasy Tropes in Books pt 2

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Here are 10 more fantasy tropes I can’t stand. Yup, fellow fantasy readers, we’re going in. Some of these tropes are problematic and should be retired completely (and immediately), while others are just overdone and tired. From fictional worlds that have to be ruled by a male, to the seriously popular “mates,” to names that look like you spread alphabet soup around, I’m covering it all. Let me know in the comments if there’s a trope you think I missed-I wanna know what really grinds your gears. Without further ado, if you’re tired of the same old fantasy tropes, join me. Let us gripe together! 😫
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[@Clxxdyyyyyyy]

As a British person, calling someone a mate makes it sound like a friend zone

[@sorinblack]

Definitely, and many writers like to pay respect to England's vast contribution, if not creation of to the fantasy genre. That last bit is debatable, but English writers made classical fantasy and modern fantasy the brilliant genre it is today

[@joefawley9264]

Gender neutral

[@ToraVanguard2004]

'Arrite mate

[@hiyalanguages]

That's what I thought. Then... only then I thought... the other kind of mate haha

[@KittyKatt_Luna80s]

Yup. British (South East English) woman here. :-)

[@crystallinecrisis3901]

Hey! The two female characters CAN be in a scene together! They just have to hate each other!

[@Sky_Sovereign]

I thought she would say that those two female characters are shipped lol

[@Zero_Is_Stopping_Time]

@@Sky_Sovereignenemies to lovers

[@destroyerinazuma96]

​@@Zero_Is_Stopping_TimeGlorious sword lesbian protagonist: "imma steal yo fiancee". Gay Prince: "finally! Take her! Just ask if she's okay with that first!"

[@emilymatthews2990]

Just goes to show people women CAN be friends. I don’t understand why men can’t see that

[@paulsophocleous2544]

"Have you read a fantasy novel where the characters are literally fucking in the snow?... How does the guy even get hard in those conditions?" He just waits until it gets frozen stiff.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

just make them from a race immune to cold. Job done.

[@uncannyalien3301]

Some tropes that I absolutely despise are 1) male & female friendship will always lead to a romantic relationship. Just let them be friends! Please! (except for if you're writing a romance novel, that's the whole point of the book) 2) every character by the end of the series will be in a relationship. Where are all of these couples coming from? Let people be single! It's not bad to be single! 3) love angle. It's not a love triangle. I'd rather have an actual love triangle, that'd be fun. But the whole two men fighting over one woman and the only difference between the men is their name and hair color? Hate it. 4) female assassins who seduce their targets. Please for the love of the stars stop tying successful women to sex! Just let her be a badass without sexualizing them!

[@trinaq]

Agreed, why can't a man and a woman who are both heterosexual simply be buddies, as opposed to forcing them into a romantic relationship. "A Cinderella Story" dealt with this well with Sam and Carter, who stay besties throughout, without either of them secretly crushing on the other.

[@ern1609]

​@@trinaqBecause....fandom

[@michaelkolarik6189]

Ad 4: I understand why you hate it, but honestly... it work. :)

[@ToraVanguard2004]

I think 4 when done well is great, there are just too many examples where "character = hot" is their only trait, and they don't feel like a living breathing human being, just eye candy.

[@savethefantasticfour292]

For #4 I would say women are shown using sex appeal as a tool because it is a realistic way for them to deal with men. Imagine a very strong male assassin refusing to use strength or speed against female targets because it is just so cliche. Men respond to sex appeal. It is one of the easiest ways for women to have an advantage over men.

[@ShadowPhoenix82]

As she was discussing her problems with mentors, I laughed in consideration of my similar character, proud that it seemed to pass muster. And then she said "we all know the mentor will die; how else will the protagonist learn to fend for themselves?" Damn... Called out so hard.

[@britt6184]

The mentor in one of my series doesn't die. He has to live with all of the trauma he's endured and all his failures. He doesn't have a good relationship with any of the people he is suppose to act as a guide/teacher for but he's fine with it because he just wants them to be safe.

[@charlottewilliams1707]

I know she said she doesn’t like D&D and magic tats, but I heard of a kinda cool combination of those tropes. A wizard has their spells tattooed on their skin so they don’t have to carry a spell book around

[@FwooshEye]

Oh you mean a bit like how some alchemists do in Fullmetal Alchemist? Yeah like that it works really well

[@kenzashenna]

Reminds me of the runes in mortal instruments series

[@AlbinoBlackHole]

I HATE the "Pair the Spares" trope where EVERY character HAS to be a STRAIGHT relationship and chemistry is optional.

[@sekai9906]

Agreed, it's so frustrating !

[@somerandomgal3915]

Extra agreed here for the mentioned reasons + because I am aromantic making it overall feel like „but… why??? They were perfectly okay and happy on their own! Why force them both to something neither of them would enjoy at all?!?“

[@serahne]

This is so annoying ! Everyone doesn't have to be in a relationship by the end of the book omg

[@Iso20227]

People naturally pair what fits together. The spares are both just spares, so they go together in a writers mind. Same can be said for men and women, they go together, so people naturally pair them. However, just pairing them for the sake of pairing them is lazy and irritating. There should at least be a reason that they like each other, have them work well together or something. Give a little bit of depth to them, and “pair the spares” is instantly so much better.

[@thatcatholicgirl5675]

@@Iso20227- I agree! You could even write a spin off detailing all the side character’s stories and arcs!

[@AndrewHalliwell]

I did my mentor in a completely different way. He's in his twenties, he's a bit of a rogue and by the end of the first book, the MC is teaching him.

[@ToraVanguard2004]

Similarly, my mc and her mentor depend on each other to reach their goals, especially with his powers having weakened from 20 years of hypersleep. It's much more of an even friend dynamic, and I love it

[@tbnrrenagade9507]

I’ve never read mentors like that before Sounds fun The only mentor I’m writing is the not really a mentor just accidentally teaches the mc stuff mentor lol

[@iamkillia6431]

All your books sound so cool omg!! I need to read these!😅 I’m not really a writer lol I just like reading

[@nighttime8435]

My “mentor” is admittedly old and sickly looking, but practically immortal, sickly looking, paranoid, and is more so friends with the main character.

[@MonAhgasInsomniAroELF]

yeah, there are a few mentor-ish characters in my story, most of them young, and one older. but they're not typical mentors, since they don't really stick with the mc or anything, and their influence on her is very limited. one of them (the youngest) has a closer relationship with her, but they see each other more as equals than student and mentor.

[@Kub1na32]

'No one put a gun to your head!' I am obligated by the gun to my head to say that I, in fact, do not have a gun to my head while writing that.

[@Acorn905]

Yeah not trying to sound cheesy but the real gun to anybody head seems more like society or others expectations.. okay anyways back to the funnies.. Yes i was the bullet in the gun and that did actually happen 😌

[@AlphishCreature]

Sorry, but I don't think English speakers are in position to complain about Daenerys name when they speak "definitely" as "definetly" or "rogue" as "roug". As someone whose native language uses mostly phonetic spelling, English pronunciation is often more arcane than most of fantasy names. Though I admit, some fantasy names do get unnecessarily long, or include some clusterfun of consonants. Apparently it's supposed to make the names more "mysterious" or "alien", but it mostly interferes with my inner reading voice instead.

[@lemon265]

daenerys pronounciation makes so much sense in german.. xD

[@calaminthagrandiflora7065]

​@@lemon265 agreed

[@vanessammiller3436]

@@lemon265 I hope Jenna reads this.

[@aix83]

Leicester.

[@bodine219]

English being weird is the main reason it's a problem. If this language had standard pronunciations for spellings, then any combination of letters would be pronounceable. If you want a real headache, there is literally a game English speakers play where we intentionally spell a word wrong, using letters that are pronounced that way in other words and the other person has to guess the word. (i.e. icecream becomes aisckrieme) Edit: the game is called Incohearent

[@theatheistpaladin]

The magic tattoos is actually new to me. I was thinking of doing magic tattoos, but it helps you cast magic and is regulated. You are not allowed to "free cast" and it an earned system.

[@ca19ro_32]

I don't only hate mates, I also really don't like the concept of soul mates, especially when it's portrayed in a way that makes you doubt how much of the relationship is actually the characters getting along vs what happens because of 'fate'. It's probably just a personal thing, but I would hate nothing more than to be destined to be with someone via powers outside of my control. It removes the 'I decided to be with you, even tho there's millions of other people', which is sort of off putting and incredibly unromantic in my opinion.

[@MonAhgasInsomniAroELF]

i love soulmates, though yeah i prefer when it's not something where you are like, mystically compelled to be with them and can't avoid it. as in, i like the idea that there is someone out there who is absolutely perfect for you, with a personality and traits that perfectly complement yours, who maybe even is your ideal type aesthetically, but you don't _have_ to be with them. it's still a choice. and because people don't know if they'll ever even meet their soulmate (because that's 100% chance, not destiny/fate), they sometimes are already in relationships when they meet their soulmate, and they decide whether they'd like to stay with their partner, or leave to be with their soulmate (or even better, romance isn't a given even with a soulmate, so your soulmate could just be your bff and you can happily be with someone else romantically) 🥰

[@isaiasherrero7889]

facts!

[@johnmcclure40]

One which always annoys me is from time travel/displacement stories, where our hero/heroine is somehow whisked off to another time/universe, and they take a few days to realize it. "Oh, how weird. Literally EVERY SINGLE THING around me indicates that I am in 17th century England, my cell phone has absolutely no reception, and nobody knows what I'm talking about when I refer to anything modern. " (pause) "Gosh, I bet this is a really elaborate film set without any cameras or crew." Oh, and another one. "Good heavens, Jenna. I've just discovered that you are plotting to take over the kingdom, after you murdered your stepsister, Queen Kamyrynne " (sorry, couldn't resist) "I am now going to turn my back on you and walk slowly over to the door so that I can go and denounce you. So you just sit there, in this room with no witnesses, holding your loaded crossbow, while I go find someone to tell."

[@crimsonhawk52]

is gandalf really the prototypical mentor? Bilbo and Frodo never learn magic. He's not even there for most of any of the books. He just kinda shows up, bing bong magic time, and fucks off promptly. Does Frodo even really learn anything in LotR? He learns to hate lembas bread, I guess?

[@Hrafnskald]

Merlin would be closer to the prototype.

[@songogan]

Gandalf mentors Frodo and Bilbo not in powers and abilities, but in wisdom, giving them values, such as the piety that was necessary for Frodo to spare Golum

[@storyspren]

Personally I love "alphabet soup" names because they can give different places in the world different vibes, and get across the point that there's more than one language in the setting. But they gotta be phonetically and orthographically distinct or else they won't do that. Names like Faythe and Kamryn on the other hand, agreed, it does give a very specific midwest suburb vibe that I don't like.

[@lydierayn]

I like fantasy names until they aren't too far out. Sona, Nara, Koi, Vixen. Amilya, Ronnathel, Sir Sinnutis Then again, i have a character who is named "Grand Vazir Victor King of Thiefs, Master of Blades" and he is so god damn Narcistic that he uses his full name a lot 😂

[@VorpalSpider69]

Some alphabet soup names can come from the weirdest places at the weirdest times. For example, I was thinking of a name for a female half-orc barbarian for a D&D campaign. Suddenly, while in the shower, I came up with the name “Y’góna” (pronounced “yee-go-na”, emphasis on the “o”), and that’s how she got her name.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Jenna should sit in for even ONE of our Game Sessions... and it's GURPS at our Table, though we dive into the fantasy realms frequently enough... We just adopt mechanics as necessary... After a few too many Pixies named Bob or Frank, Elves that argue who's going by Steven or Stephan (with emphasis on the a)... AND the Dwarven couple Raymond and his wife Rae, she's either going to fall back in love with Alphabet Soup naming, or blow a head gasket... ;o)

[@crystallinecrisis3901]

I don’t mind some of them. I had a character named Rhythe once but when you have names like Æthenneflyndel it gets a to be a little too much for me. As well as the Midwest vibes like Raevynn or something

[@wolfcara16]

​@@crystallinecrisis3901 Raevynn is for those unique parents wanting to name their kid Raven, but special xD

[@Raideortega]

"Can we circle back to the tree-fucking?" --Jenna Moreci, 2023

[@jbcatz5]

“I just want a mate.” (He means a friend, not someone in love with him) “You want to mate? You ain’t mating with me sunshine.”

[@britt6184]

That part was hilarious. Donna was the best. Loved her friendship with Ten.

[@herbertn.oafallas3565]

The things I hate the most are: 1. The Oblivious MC that doesn't know his/her powers just because the MC is an idiot. 2. The Damsel in Distress but more distress. 3. When the romantic "subplot" overtakes the main storyline. 4. The Cold and Callous hearted mafia boss that only sweet to his lovey-lovey (just the Mafia Boss stories in general) 5. When a cute story turned into a nightmare-inducing development.

[@KarmaSpaz12]

1. Make them a bumbling, clueless idiot who fails upwards. 2. Damsel in distress is acting as one and is the only reason MC isn't dead because she's the brains. MC confuses her angst and distress at all the near death situations as the typical damsel in distress trope. 3. The main villain is hot, MC falls for her and entire situation is derailed as he chases after her for the rest of the story (inadvertently thwarting her plans etc). 4. The boss behind the main villain is utterly oblivious to how bad the situation is but his blind love for the main villain leaves him to trust her even when their plans are crumbling around her. 5. The comedy drops off a cliff in the final stages and everyone dies in the end due to realism suddenly becoming more of a factor and this isn't a Mission Impossible story.

[@functionalaviation144]

I actually really like five

[@SysterYster]

Personally, I prefer when a fantasy world has fantasy names like Danerys, or Hermione (which I still can't spell, my computer informed me). There's nothing as distracting as Here comes the hero, Greg, or the animist Sophie. And stuff like that. Sure, they don't need super complicated names. I have characters with names of three letters, and some with twelve. You know, like in the real world. :P So, I think the problem isn't that there are hard-to-pronounce names, as long as they're not ALL hard to say.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

1st Hermione has been a REAL name for ages... AND there just SHOULD be a relative sensibility involved in creating "unique" names. Sure, "Greg, the Conqueror" or "Bob, the Ravager" just don't have a "ring" to them that largely rolls off the tongue, let alone sounds pleasant or anything to the ear... BUT we need to start with the attitude taken for the themes of the story at hand... There's only so far you're going to get with Roland Havoc or Seymour Buttz unless your clearly writing a farce. You could get by with surnames of Goetz with the cleverness to put the Character in a service industry, as a sales pitch... BUT you're going to wear thin quickly with that sort of thing, regardless of your personal historical knowledge of Mullers and Smythes or anyone else's old-world origins... It's worth the effort to create some interesting and fantastical names, especially if you CAN write them clearly enough to be relatively straight-forward on the pronunciation and enunciation process. Many of us DO have "voices" that narrate in our heads, and when the words make those voices fumble and flub, it can be arduous and even painful to try to get back on track, depending on the level of "What the actual f*ck did I just read? Did someone's parents outright HATE him???" still echoing after... The one point that ABSOLUTELY BURNS MY ASS to no end, is when there are several characters in a story that have VERY similar "unique names"... It's like going out of your way to CREATE "same face syndrome" without actually making several copies of the same Character... no matter what else you do to descriptions, with a set of "James, Jim, Jiminy, Jim-bob, and Jameson, I see the SAME person in different clothes... like some kind of stupid Hollyweird stunt for pentuplets... or like "Joe Versus the Volcano" when Tom Hanks kept running into Characters played by Meg Ryan everywhere... I didn't mind the plot of the movie, but that was a little bit annoying... ;o)

[@QualityPen]

Or Tobias, the name that totally fits a main character in a Greco-Roman setting.

[@SysterYster]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 Yeah, I know Hermione is a real name, but it's still hard to pronounce and spell. XD Kinda making my point. And some real names fit better in fantasy settings than others. Not sure where you're going with the names that sound like what the characters are. I kinda hate that. Don't have characters names Dumbledore (bumblebee) or Umbridge (displeasure, annoyance, offence). Like, please, people don't name their kids like that. Like, what parent would ever go: "I think my kid's gonna be hella annoying, let's name them Pique!" No. You gotta consider the setting, of course. And the character's lineage, education, family, etc etc to get fitting names. Sure. But personally, I hate when characters have names that basically tell the reader WHAT or HOW they are. That's stupid. lol. Yeah, I agree to some degree with the names should be easy to pronounce. But honestly, a fantasy setting would be like a different country, yes? And I sure as heck don't know from text, how to pronounce French or Portugese or Egyptian, etc, names. So... does it matter? I don't think names should be like you hit your head on the keyboard, no. XD But some weird, hard to pronounce and some easy should be fine. Like, I have names like Pei, and Sern. And some like Hiaashaqwi and Raadhinilin. But still, they're from different cultures in my book, and they're not all hard. I think it makes it more real to have a mixture. And yes, hard agree on the same-sounding original names. I recently read a book where there were like three characters with very similar names, even the same letters, and I had trouble recalling who was who. If you write siblings though, they often do have similar names, so from a realistic point of view, that can be done, as long as the rest of the "cast" are more varied. :P

[@SysterYster]

@@QualityPen lol, I have known a guy named Tobias, and it's not a compliment to be honest. Not to mention how totally not fantasy-like of a name that is. I have a character called Ralf in one of my stories. And people are gonna be like: What? That's a weird name. XD (Though I've considered changing it to be just his nickname, and not the actual name).

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@SysterYster Names that are a bit "on the nose" to their Characters are more for farce and comic points... If the story's meant to be more substantive, better names should probably be used, BUT the odd exception CAN be made for a side Character... "Did your parents hate you or something?" can be a regular gag so long as it's not beaten to death... AND for D&D one-shots... I've been known to use the WORST names for Characters on those, at least until we had a One-Shot (single adventure-game meant for one session, but can carry to 2 or 3)... AND that turned (somehow?) into a full-on Campaign... "Dixie-Lee Pynch" (Dick Pynch?) NEEDED to die... but I digress... Hermione (for example) was the name of an old flame, and member of Jack Nicholson's old gang in the movie "Goin' South"... It stands as a relatively fun comedy-romance in the old west with a few dubious twists... BUT it certainly isn't a fantasy in the traditional sense... haha... The occasional "difficult" name in literature SHOULD reflect on my lack of literacy as a reader, or my lack of cultural exposure... It gets dubious when I'm struggling to enunciate half the names in a story... This falls on similar lines to the peculiar attempts at technical jargon employed in futuristic sci-fi... It shouldn't be difficult simply for the sake of being difficult is all... BUT we (as writers) are NEVER going to satisfy everyone... There's always at least a few who are willfully illiterate or so culturally blind that they can't possibly even make an attempt at a name for being a little stranger than they're used to... Where we exactly draw those lines is as much a question of style and voice as it ever gets to be a question of quality in the story itself. ;o)

[@elizabeths.3634]

#6 The entire fantasy race is evil. Somehow this one has me trying to picture a good Dementor.

[@acanna7602]

those things could be good if written ngl

[@elderscrollsswimmer4833]

The Groke from Moomins. She is lonely and yearns for warmth but freezes everything she touches.

[@WarmLusamine]

Considering these things are (supposedly) based on chronic depression...yeah good luck, pal.

[@elizabeths.3634]

@@WarmLusamine I said I was trying, didn't say I was successful. 😆

[@DarthBiomech]

Jenna: "It's _fantasy,_ don't be bound by realism!" Also Jenna: "...Except sex. Sex makes dirty dirt and bugs materialize out of air."

[@trinaq]

Haha, hard to argue with that logic.

[@kimifw58]

Breaks from reality need explanation. Is someone using magic to keep them clean?

[@shadowthehedgehog181]

As much as I liked Jenna's videos, a lot of her advice sounds silly, contradictory, or sometimes comes off as shaming. What if some people like these tropes or authors use them for a reason? It's partly why I rarely listen to her stuff anymore

[@AlphishCreature]

To be fair, if I was a fey and someone disturbed my tree, I'd definitely conjure some bugs to chase them off. If anything, bugs materialising out of thin air are even more "realistic" in the realm of fantasy! That said, I've been fortunate enough not to come across tree-bothering scenes in any fantasy I read. Another matter altogether is having fantasy be purposeful. We accept cryptids and mages, because without them there would be no terrifying dragon attacks or fascinating spells. On the other hand, non-realism in characterisation or mundane activities - with no clear indication it's intended - will usually come across as poor writing, lack of life experience and/or failed research.

[@chrisrudolf9839]

@@shadowthehedgehog181 Yeah, I miss the old times when she was giving real writing advice that had a practical use. Nowadays, she sadly stepped down to the formula of doing flashy "10 worst" or "10 best" lists with quick bullet points that barely have any substance and are mostly subjective. But I guess that's what generates the most clicks.

[@ssj_brownie6447]

I'm British, and when she was talking about "mates", I thought she meant mate as in friend. E.g. Me and my mates went out for a beer. I was so confused lmao

[@simonmagid4205]

Um, Jenna. 'Daenerys' is a Welsh name. I'm sure it is news to the people of Wales that it can't be pronounced. >.< Edit: I have poked around and found claims of it being variously Greek or Hebrew as well. I've written a Welsh person I know and asked. I admit, Welsh seems more likely to me in a retelling of the War of the Roses.

[@KittyKatt_Luna80s]

Really? That's cool.

[@person8834]

These are all just her knee-jerk opinions, she’s not stating them as fact. I think that’s important for remember when watching her channel.

[@Shatterverse]

The reason "woman marry man" is in fantasy so much is that because like 90+% of historical precedent. That doesn't mean you have to do it that way in your book - for example Robert Jordan's WoT series deliberately flips this trope more often than not because of the world history. There's just a pretty huge pile of history that makes it make sense in a fantasy genre. There's more to it too, but there it is.

[@squeemdweem]

Im sorry but i completely disagree with the names section😭 i love creative names and subverted name spellings😂❤

[@aeroxoxo]

I have a super weirdly spelled name (Aeryn but pronounced erin) and I agree

[@herbertn.oafallas3565]

But not into extent of making your readers to develop Dyslexia.

[@troikas3353]

I only think it's a problem when the spelling is so odd it makes it difficult to read/pronounce. So long as it's still something you could say out loud at a glance I think any spelling works fine. When we read our brains largely ignore the actual, specific spelling of most words we are familiar with anyway.

[@wolfcara16]

There appears to be a thin line between nice fresh names and names that feel like parents trying to hard to divert from the mainstream.

[@d.b.2215]

These "creative" names just reek of American suburban mom vibes, exactly like Jenna said. I'm not from the US, and I agree this seems to me like a very USA thing to do. It's seen as really cringe in most cultures to have weird names for the sake of being weird. Like you're trying to make up for lacking an actual personality

[@trinaq]

Yes, I ABHOR when the protagonist is oblivious to their magical abilities, even when it's blatantly staring them right in the face. They try to play off telekinesis or shooting lasers out of their hands on "adolescence," but they just come off as woefully naive or sheltered.

[@Holden_..]

Instead of my protagonist not knowing she has magical abilities, she thinks she’s going to. She has a magical parent and expected to have magic and is thrilled with the idea. But instead, she doesn’t have magic. And since she doesn’t have magic with magical parents, that means she worships a darkness god. (No body likes him.) and is chosen to be executed (no logic, I know.)

[@susanscott8653]

I think it makes sense if is some sort of prohibition on magic or magical beings. Then I think denial would be fairly understandable. 🤔

[@christopherb501]

In the very least, have them be ignorant of the full _scope_ of their powers, or reveal later that they've been specifically bamboozled - be it by enchantment, gaslighting, etc. - until a given point.

[@stuarthutzler6670]

I mean, to a certain degree, it is realistic. A lot of real people's journeys of self discovery involve saying things to themselves like "I'm not gay or anything, but you have to admit that you tend to see more good-looking men than good-looking women" or "It must suck to have ADHD. I mean, I forget what I was doing every thirty seconds and get yelled at for it constantly, it would suck if that was a clinical thing" or "I mean, every man would rather be a woman if given the option, right?" People can be and often are painfully oblivious to things that make them different, especially if the existence of the identity that they fall into is either hidden from them ("Those scars on my back can't be angel wings. Angels don't exist.") or stigmatized ("I can't be magical, because magical people are evil and steal babies or something")

[@Thagomizer]

What on earth does it mean to say "white" things or "male" things? The role of an archetypal mentor could very easily be filled by a female character--the wise "crone" in a triad of witches, the Orcadian spae-wife, the abbess, the wasteland elder, the shaman, seer, wisewoman, druidess, etc. In fact, I immediately thought of the sorceress Fin Raziel from Willow before you even mentioned that this trope is apparently only occupied by males.

[@DS-mi9ru]

Yeah, that was a bit of looking for issues where there aren't any imo. Gandalf is even named The White for half the book, but I've never gotten the impression he's an example of toxic masculinity. If he was Gandalfina, the story would remain exactly the same.

[@jaustill237]

The problem isn't that they are white or that they are males or that they are old or that they get killed off. The problem is how often these four things are tied to mentor. It would be very easy to subvert the trope by removing one or more of these.

[@ivystead]

About the #1 trope, I’m actually writing a book about a princess who must get married to a prince. Not because he has to inherit the throne, but because that princess’s nation is stuck between two rivaling kingdoms. In order for her people to have at least a semblance of protection, she needs to marry a prince from one of these kingdoms (aka get some help because her kingdom is really just blocking the way for the two rivals, so all the crossfires happen in it) and fight off the other one. Marrying to inherit the throne is kind of a cliché, but is marrying for protection one too? Can this whole thing work or does it have to be revised?

[@LockonStratos999]

If the prince's kingdom has a military strength enough to protect the princess's land, then go for it. Alliances by marriage were a thing so if she is forced because of it there should be no problem. Just make her rule her own land, not just go to the guy's court and forget about her territories. An interesting development you can exploit is that the kid should inherit both kingdoms (or not, if the prince is the 2nd heir. You can play with that however you want)

[@lenabluejay1166]

A potential twist: Do they necessarily have to fall in love with each other? They could be friends and have an agreement that they're married for protection but able to see other people. (Of course, if the story is that they do fall in love with each other then go for it, you know your book better than I do, this is just my idea.)

[@gabrielaguirre8488]

It is totally a cliché for me, but Dune and A song of ice and fire have this trope too. It's not bad for your story, just nothing special to hook anyone. It was the space drugs, future sight, sand worms, etc that drove me into reading Dune, not the marriage for convenience thing, or the kingdoms in war. Maybe you don't want to write fantasy and/or have a unique setting, and your writing skills can be awesome and deliver a great story with that plot, once you write it you'll probably know how to sell it, I just think your premise won't be the sexy thing to catch an audience

[@fandomonium3789]

That's a great use of realistic reasons princesses would marry in the middle ages. For a princess to offer herself like that is stepping up and fulfilling her duty. She can lament that this is her duty, her family can lament it, her love interest can lament it. But at the end of the day, she's stepping up and doing what a princess was expected to do. It's archaic, and not a great position to be in, but she's making a sacrifice and showing tremendous courage to make this sacrifice for the good of her kingdom.

[@Mana_Ski]

I like it

[@valinsyrcen1673]

Against a tree is actually fine, and bugs tend to mostly be a grass problem. But you absolutely nailed it with the snow. Which is more than most guys get to.

[@g_hyperstar3609]

I think that while it is important for the main character to make mistake and figure out things on their own, sometimes a little guide or help isn't bad. It'd be especially good if rather than the "mentor" being the only one teaching, we'll have him also learn from the hero and see things from a different point of view. Basically don't make another Gandalf but alternatives are possible

[@steveirwin3594]

Hey now, I've met several Jaxons in real life, let's not shame real people for having fantasy names

[@Holden_..]

Still waiting to meet someone named Frodo

[@Barjavelle131]

I have a classmate named Merlin, another Nemo and a third one Werther, in the same class. I'm studying humanities

[@soloragoldsun2163]

I'm definitely with you on the "evil fantasy race" trope. While I love the Redwall series, one of my pet peeves is that all rats, foxes, weasels, etc. are evil. And the books that looked like they'd tackle that trope and maybe turn it on its head (Taggerung and Outcast of Redwall) ended up having the moral of "Yeah, this guy is inherently good because he's an otter." and "Yeah, this guy is inherently evil because he's a ferret." There were a few gray characters in a few books, but I feel like more could have been done.

[@grenenjaex5342]

Well, it means sci-fi will get a second one too in the future

[@iona.wayland]

Not the names with 27 vowels 😭

[@Celestirys]

I noticed I tend to put more female characters in, though by now I think I managed to balance things. As for the mentors, they share their knowledge and experience, as they have more of those, but they still have to deal with their personal issues. One of them is cursed and is forced to live in the body of a wolf, the other is the daughter of a demon and has to battle her own dual nature, while the third has to find something to break a mindbending spell. So pretty much they're only a few lectures ahead of their apprentice in the book.

[@ruthmellodasilva348]

Sounds great, you have three mentors in your book? Or they are in different histories?

[@Celestirys]

@@ruthmellodasilva348 I have three sort of mentor figures. The cursed wolf is the first one Sharla meets, the wolf gives a kind of general prep. However, it's a bit of a strugle as she might have her memories and mental capabilities, physically she's still a beast so her lectures have their limitations. The witch will teach her more about magic, and how to not just survive but thrive among people (Sharla was born and raised in a village, though becuase of her unusual upbringing she's not as lost as she could be). The thrid mentor will aid in refining her already learnt skill to help the team achieve their goals. She's one of the most educated people so she will also provide information on the lands they reach, and will give advice on what to avoid or how to blend in. The latter part can come quite in handy if someone accidentally became a famed dragon slayer. 😆 But to be honest, the group is so mixed that everyone can/will learn a thing or two from each other as part of the team dinamic. Or at least that's what I'm aiming for.

[@ruthmellodasilva348]

@@Celestirys This remember me Naruto (in a good way, not just because is a cartoon). He have different mentors and this help him to learn about this powers, but it also helped him to form a stronger opinion about people, finally discarding the concept that Bijuus are evil.

[@Celestirys]

@@ruthmellodasilva348 Thank you! I really enjoyed that character relationships and dynamics in Naruto. :) I'm afraid the biggest lesson she learns won't be as grand as the one with the Bijuus, but she will learn that it is okay to get some aid from time to time, as they can achieve more as if team when they work together, no matter what they have to face.

[@lizanna6390]

People seem to think that fantasy must be sexist because it has a medieval feel. I was playing a wheel of time table top rpg and they dm got mad at me because 'In that time a lady wouldn't care about orphans' in what Time? It's fantasy, there are dragons!

[@Surgemaster2012]

Am I the only one who laughed my ass off at Jenna's Dirty Sex rant? Or Alphabet Soup names?

[@KittyKatt_Luna80s]

Nope! It's hilarious 😂

[@alejandrovallencci]

I wanted to say thank you Jenna. I’ve been planning my novel for the best part of a year now, and thanks to your videos I’ve managed to structure the story in a unique way and you’ve really helped me identify what I was doing right, as well as a few things to change or stay away from. I’ve begun writing now, only a few chapters in but it’s thanks to you I even got that far💕

[@larizaokyadisty4467]

oh, hi there Felix (waves at your shirt)

[@SysterYster]

I think having an evil race isn't too crazy considering you can also have evil gods/goddesses in a fantasy world. And if they created said race, sure, be evil. But if they didn't, and most of them say just happen to worship an evil deity, then all of them shouldn't actually be inherently evil, cause it makes no sense.

[@jbcatz5]

Unless it’s specifically a hive mind or all members are indoctrinated races can have individuals who rebel against the majority viewpoint.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

I like it in a lovecraftian way. Having a race who is so alien to humanity that they can just do horrible things without caring, no more than we care about bugs.

[@lightningtiger7721]

I really haven’t been digging the takes from this channel of late.

[@imaginepageant]

I love how with so many of these worst tropes lists, my WIP subverts them. My “wise old mentor” is a woman and doesn’t actually show up until the third act, so my protagonist has to figure out most things on her own. And while she is a surprise! magical being, there isn’t any evidence of it her entire life until the story begins, and then the magical things she does aren’t obvious at all and aren’t revealed as magical until close to the end. Go me!

[@Stancella]

One the characters of the story i'm writting has a master. He was only 25 when he took her as an apprentice. Everyone was surprised he did it so young. He did it prescisely because his own master was so old that he died barely 6 month after the start of his apprenticeship and he had to continue his formation in a specialized school. He thought that the sooner he took an apprentice, the more time he would have to teach her everything he knew.

[@SysterYster]

It's funny, cause when I wrote my first book, I had SO many male characters. And it wasn't intentional, at all. Like, I didn't even think of it, and maybe it was because most (especially older) fantasy are written that way??? I don't know. Anyway, my best friend pointed it out, and some people got gender-swapped. XD And in my second book, there's tons of female characters.

[@m.j.1470]

I'm here for the Felix shirt. 😂❤❤

[@AishaAlaya-my2jl]

Finally someone noticed 😂❤

[@Bandikit]

Funnily enough I ran a scene of my (completely nonsexual) story though an ai story finisher just for the lols and all of the sudden my MC and his childhood best friend (she was the one comforting him after he sustained injuries to his eyes) just start randomly goin to town in the snow despite it being the end of summer. What's more is that when they were done a single tear fell from the childhood best friend's face and hit the MC's eyes, curing them instantly. I've never laughed so hard at a product of ai before

[@BKPrice]

The D&D part reminded me of a time in Jr. High when I was writing a story for my English class. It was a fantasy dungeon crawl because I have adored fantasy for all my life and I used the D&D 1st Edition books to help create the dungeon. They had a random dungeon generator, basically just floorplans, and I took my characters through there. Not exactly the same as taking D&D sessions and turning them into prose, but it was fun. My teacher liked the story too, so that was cool. Nowadays I just use D&D materials for handy aids, like tavern name generators or the like.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Oh, snap, what about a fantasy kingdom *mixed with* the white suburban American Midwest? The kingdom flies into chaos when noble King Jaxon's seven-layer frito pie is POISONED!

[@britt6184]

It really depends on how the tropes are written into the story and if they fit with the story that's being told. Mentors are needed for main character growth so we don't have another Rey Papasmurf on our hands although a self-taught hero arc could be interesting. I'm gonna use that some time.

[@n908qd7]

I love how brutally honest this channel is. It helps me feel motivated to be different, and to add twists and turns and pray to god they're unique and never been done before.

[@r.pinheiro549]

Agreed

[@ZoneofA]

This video in one sentence: tell me you are misandrists bigot without telling me you re misandrist bigot.

[@myafelicia]

Not agreeing with the mate since that is quite historically correct. Since it is a fantasy book, people should/could invent their own owrds to denote a spouse or life partner.

[@therealsugarbitzskelly9780]

I will say I'm trying to write my D&D campaign into a book series, anyway. But trying to do it right in any way requires SO MUCH trimming, and reordering, and more trimming, and lots of changes! So, so, so much stuff to do to take it apart and rebuild it to fit an appropriate structure. And in the end, it's not going to be the same, not even close! But I love that honestly! It's just way more polished and easier to follow. And easier to write (but takes a lot more work to outline)

[@MrPokemon248]

Star wars is a sausage fest and it is one of the most successful franchises of all time. George must be doing something right.

[@user-wm1yc2gk2w]

Jenna forbids fun-having in fantasy writing

[@joelbailey176]

The only one of these tropes I'm guilty of (so far, only half way through book 1), is the names... got a character called Aless (pronounced like Alice). I like it and I'm keeping it, dagnabit!

[@unqualifiedtoast700]

"I don't know dnd but I'm going to misrepresent the good part of the playerbase anyway."

[@SweetTreatsPolarBear]

honestly, yea, i'm writing my book based on a dnd game i was in. but it was a failed game that ended like 3 months in or something because of player drama. i thought the initial idea was good, so i ripped out the major plot points, rearranged them to make sense, then talked with the other players who were still my friends about a lot of 'what-if' scenarios or plot ideas, or what they might have liked to see happen further on in the game. picked some of the best ones and now i just have to make it all make sense. it kind of feels more like a challenge just to see if i can make it come out good. if it does, i might want to publish it some day (i guess duh, that's the ultimate goal for writing a book) but if it just turns out to not be great, at least it'll be a neat fanfic-y thing for me and my friends to read about what we wished the game could have been.

[@AntiEspada]

I simply had to refer to Chaol as "Cowl" in my head and now I'm too afraid to ask how to actually say it.

[@poumybeloved]

I read it as Caol(?) at first but then changed to Shaol then after first book it became Chaol. Im still not sure how to pronounce it tbh..

[@nerdydaydream]

Hey Jenna! I would love if you could make a video on how to write a villain protagonist!

[@winterglow000]

Love these types of videos I’m so in! Also is that Felix from Stray Kids on your shirt?!?!?!

[@bumbleb2nah]

Hells yes!

[@jimothysmusic7658]

This is one of the reasons I like Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time because he subverts a lot these tropes.

[@alexandriaklein3594]

Is that Felix from Stray Kids on your shirt?

[@andeeharry]

3: Vanielle, Asabella, Tafael, Lersephone, Ishly, Eorraine. Sometimes names are fun to use in a different way, as it is unique and you can say it how you like, there is no rule saying that it has to be this way. I do like the name Vindarial.

[@Lavenderina_Garden]

Not me noticing that she has a felix from stray kids shirt.

[@Babysongebob1]

The second way you spelled kamryn is how the girl at my daycare spells it 😂😂😂😂 I'm dying

[@ZenitaDee]

The funny thing, when I was first starting my story, I had them had magical tattoos 😅

[@Raycheetah]

In most cultures which used them, tattoos WERE considered magical. =^[.]^=

[@creatore1359]

Im guilty of the alpabeth smashing, but i tried to justify it by saying that the magical species doesn't come from a specific geographical location or have culture of themself, so they just take the names they like around them and twist them how they want even if in the language it's derived from it doesn't make sense like a guy named "Ernhankez Afuera" or something like that

[@wolfcara16]

That name is actually kinda cool. My brain had no trouble at all, pronouncing it and if that fellow doesn't happen to be the MC i wouldn't mind reading it multiple times. Kinda sounds like that enstranged, way older brother that kicks ass and is open to growing closer again.

[@creatore1359]

@@wolfcara16 thanks, i honestly just took some surnames and words in spanish smashed them together and added some letters, for MCs i usualy go for shorter easy to pronounce names that don't really have a true meaning couse in the universes i created names have lost their meaning so you could simply say "my name is Lucas, it means *microwave fucker*" and peoples would totaly belive you

[@gabrielaguirre8488]

Daenerys unpronounceable? I never heard one person struggle with that name in my country, and we speak spanish, wich isn't that unpopular of a language. Try Kvothe...

[@britt6184]

Also the author provided a easy to pronounce nickname for her almost immediately. Dany.

[@BooksForever]

All of them. We need ALL the Gandalfs.

[@MOONFIA_]

wowwwww is that felix on your shirt???

[@sekai9906]

I totally agree with the "sausage fest" part. I hate how omnipresent it is in media. This is why I only write matriarchies. Btw another trope that I hate is when you've got a world full of magic, it's used for basically everything, but when it comes to babies, gays and especially lesbians are banned from having them. Like, there already exists a ton of books where a child is made out of magic, or by a magical creature or something, but it's unthinkable for the gays to have them ? What the hell ?

[@georgiprenatt8270]

I’m so glad you brought up 2 and 6! “Mates” comes up so often in Sci-Fi, I’ve become desensitized to it. And “evil races” suck so much, I refuse to read or watch anything that has that!

[@tbnrrenagade9507]

Evil races is an interesting one as many perceive a race whose culture is objectively evil as the whole race is evil.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

To your first trope. I think it was mentioned in the past of a nation in the story, where that trope was mentioned. However they added a little twist. The 'princess' in question simply declared herself to be a man and inherited the throne. Because of the politics around it and every suitable husband would have led to squabbles among the nobles, maybe even civil war or war with another kingdom everyone accepted it. Sure, they could have called her out, which would have led her challenging to a duel. Maybe someone could have won the duel, but then someone would have to marry a very resentful woman. And even if this has happened in the past, it set a precedent that can be used again even if there are suitable suitors available. In short, writers can use the trope and easily turn it on it's head.

[@roguedogx]

2:11 agreed finding Beta readers (or in my case testers) is hard. it makes it really difficult not to "ask too much" when you find a good one.

[@roguedogx]

4:29 so at least flip the script and make it the other way around, or make it so they must get divorced before the protagonist can take the throne?

[@henryharrison5927]

There is a fun thing with mentoring that I read once in a light novel that had a regression trope to it, the protagonist gets mentored by a guy who dies (trope) but then the protagonist regresses and ends up essentially becoming the mentor to his old mentor before they originally were supposed to meet

[@lexiemuncy4514]

Jenna: "MENTORS SUCK." Me: "But my guy is the MC kid's estranged dad, (estranged bc he didn't know about the kid), he's a main figure, and he DOESN'T die, how about that? OH! Oh, AND! AND he is an important person on a Magic Council, and he's an awesome landlord and well-renowned scholar/researcher of magic who regularly takes in kids/people in bad situations to take care of them under the guise of teaching them how to use their magic! (Everyone HAS magic, but the TYPE of magic depends on the ratio of the 3 super powerful bloodlines from a really long time ago that you have, and each bloodline needs to be taught to use their magic in specific ways, so not many people are living up to their full potential since one particular style was unfortunately lost until like book 3. And once that knowledge is known, he helps spread this knowledge with the world). Does this meet with your approval, O KZbin Mentor, mine?" Lol he's a favorite character of mine, and even though he IS really important, he's not a main character, so I plan to have random facts about his life kinda pop up everywhere and from random places instead of as one big blob of exposition. This includes when he actually addresses some of the rumors when someone asks him about them directly, but even then it's deliberately less than most would like, so that when you get a BIG chunk of his backstory later on, (a necessary evil bc he's telling the MC/his kid about his family) readers can compare it to their headcannons lol (if they have any, that is) What do you think?

[@airacummins5076]

A matriarchy could be cause "we gotta make sure the heir is actually the heir" cause in a lot of era's of history, royals slept around *A-LOT*

[@kimifw58]

Make the protagonist a mentor!

[@Holden_..]

That is a wonderful idea! But instead of the mentor being the protagonist, he is an old wise man who floats on a cloud playing a flute. He is intended to help my protagonist, but he’s just trying to lead them to death.

[@meganthompson6676]

Trope 1: But doesn't give the female lead a chance to prove herself to her "kingdom", "father", "government", herself, etc.?

[@SchizophrenixTheGaul3478]

Yeah lol it wouldnt give much motivation to a princess protag anymore.

[@skeletonviolin3221]

On the "they didn't know They were the magical creature" trope a version of that I'm using is she knows magic happens around her, but the church told her the magic is from a demon or evil spirit possessing her, and she believes that and runs from/intentionally suppress her magic for years untill the story forces her to confront it and she realizes that it's her magic not a evil spirit

[@skeletonviolin3221]

So she doesn't figure out she's a magical creature until then but it's because she thought she knew what the magic was. Not that she was completely oblivious.

[@laurenschenck5355]

Definitely on point ❤

[@joefawley9264]

One of the worst lists yet

[@AaronPoston]

“Save the insanity for your magic system.” Lulz!

[@STAY5161]

OMG is that Felix on your tshirt??

[@justanothercommenter4334]

Mates makes them sound like good friends lol

[@scloftin8861]

There's a lovely scene in Dr. Who with Tennent and Donna where they straighten that one out ...

[@SchizophrenixTheGaul3478]

Me when streya

[@cannibalgender]

Nothing salts my apples like dudes who make up entire worlds in their brain and then decide there HAS to be misogyny, or he'll die.

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

It doesn't HAS TO. But it doesn't HAS NOT TO either.

[@djervalevy9784]

I see nothing wrong with mentor characters- they provide a parental substitute for the main character. And even if they're old, white, or male, why does that matter?

[@laurenschenck5355]

Thanks so much Jenna YOU ROCK STAR ❤

[@AmateurStorytime]

I actually really enjoy how The Owl House handled the mentor trope. Eda starts off as Luz's mentor, introducing her to how magic functions. However, because Luz isn't a witch, she has to learn how to wield magic in a different way with a series of runes. By the end of season 1, Eda's curse completely strips her of her magic, meaning she has to start learning how to use runes like Luz does. In other words, Luz and Eda's dynamic as student and mentor completely flips on its head.

[@savethefantasticfour292]

It's ok, D&D still loves you....despite your prejudice. Official D&D and D&D inspired fiction is incredibly wide-ranging. Saying you don't like it is like saying you don't like any fiction that includes space or space ships because they are all just the same. Sure some of it is shlock, but you can say that about most things.

[@Yuki2501-yh4ik]

How's this for an idea: Amateurish magical tattoo. Super powerful but the drawing of the goddesses is so embarrassing that the character covers it and says it's a hideous scar 🤭

[@person8834]

The second one can be amended if you put an easy-to-understand pronunciation key at the beginning of the book. Done. As for the one about misspelled names: Ummm, you do realize that different cultures sometimes spell the same name differently. To those cultures, the name is not misspelled. For example, Joseph is Josef is some countries. Also, Victor is actually Viktor in some countries. If a character is specifically meant to be from one of those countries, then the spell-change is fine. I like you, Jenna, but that whole rant gave me “the egocentric American way is the Highway” vibes lmao. Also, just because you have a mentor, that doesn’t mean you can’t screw up. For example, Zuko had a mentor, but Zuko still made huge mistakes, even with the mentor around. Having the mentor give wisdom to the hero in despair is usually a touching, wholesome moment. Iroh, Gandalf, and Dumbledore are iconic characters for a reason. I think you need to purchase yourself some developmental psychology books lmao, because there’s a reason why people without parents are more likely to drop out of school and end up in prison. I understand that you see it as “raising the stakes”, but some degree of realism is also important, especially when it comes to the human (or human-like) psychology of the characters. Allowing your main character to have help is not only more realistic, but it makes the story more wholesome. Stories don’t always JUST have to be about how badass and “independent” the MC is. Pretty much all (or most) of the most famous badass characters had mentors and a lot of help. And having a mentor in the story doesn’t mean that you can’t screw up. Sometimes the mentor isn’t always available, and times when the mentor IS available are like sparse pieces of gold scattered throughout the earth. Not frequent, but worth reading. Again, in Avatar, Iroh couldn’t be there for Zuko the entire time. In Percy Jackson, Chiron was rarely there there to save Percy and his friends; they had to save themselves. He was just there to provide training and wisdom whenever they were at camp. In real life, Alexander the Great had mentor (one of the ancient philosophers, but I forgot which one).

[@Starrie-Eyed]

The magic tattooa just made me think of Maui from Moana.

[@yo.johnson]

I am crying laughing. I just KNOW you are talking about From Blood and Ash. Like these examples were WAYYYYYY TOOO SPECIFIC! LMFAO

[@quinnmccoy3012]

I almost want to *attempt* to use all these tropes to write something good. But I feel like it might be extremely difficult

[@fantasyflows]

Lol you should try that... they are used because ppl actually like reading them. Too bad it's usually the writing or story that sucks, not the tropes.

[@The_Leftysaurus]

XD I am laughing my ass off at the Alphabet Soup XD Gonna stay quite on the tree-stuff though XD * whistles innocently *

[@SLYKM]

4 is a good point. I always wondered that. But some things I think people are willing to do when they are desperate. BJs is one where I have trouble with if someone didn't shower on the same day, I just couldn't do it.

[@orikarru7877]

(Apologies if it double posts, internet cut out just as I sent it the first time.) I agree about the "how do you not know you're magical" thing when the effects seen are in utter defiance of physics. Fire from hands, reading minds, 'oh hey that one time I flew'. If it doesn't fit within the 'normality' of your world, and can't be explained any other way, fucking deal with it. But I feel it's permissible and even fun, though, when it's subtle. A woman in my story has an ability that allows her to 'ramp up' an aspect of her being, like getting really strong for a few seconds at a time. Except 'really strong' in her case is about three times the force your typical 5'1" art student (which she is) can produce. Friends who know her think her body just has no moderation of how much adrenaline to use, because she's invariably exhausted after these moments. Now, once she does learn the truth, and trains herself to be stronger, tougher, and faster? Trains to be able to ramp up higher? Then that multiplier gets Real. And bonus, unlocking this doesn't change her personality, because that's a trope that I loathe. She still does her art commissions, paints her nails (enchanted polish that un-scratches itself), enjoys watching magical girl anime (admittedly now somewhat ironically), and hanging out with the girls. Now, her friend knows something is up. Has ever since he got stabbed one time and pulled the knife out to fight back, and the wound had healed by the end. He's not sure what exactly is going on, and he keeps it on the down-low because weird shit like that brings out the spooks in black suits. But when certain truths are revealed, he does do a bit of an "I fucking told you!" dance.

[@marleymarss]

This video seems rather narrow minded. The very reason why so many writers use the European government and its historical context into fantasy is because....it's a tried system that has worked for eons and a system that was built from the ground up throughout years and years, a groundwork already laid out. Good look to any authors who actually is willing to not only build a government system, but a different hierarchy system, the populations process, various degrees of laws in place, different names and meanings besides King and Queen, various rituals, and so much more to lay down the groundwork. And the other government systems that are still being used in various countries and to incorporate into a fantasy setting, is wildly different and hard to comprehend every aspect of it. Mentor is a matter of opinion. There are people who love the Mentor and there are those who don't, it's okay. There are various reasons why Mentors are in fantasy, and I'll say it's for people who never had father figures or mother figures in his/her life and to come across Mentors in fantasy or any other genre, can be seen as a coping mechanism for them and seeing these fictional characters they can latch onto in some way. Not every Mentors are white and old, keep up with the times woman. For the last 50 years or more, there are loads of Mentors from every kind of race and cultures even and various of ages for any genre. Or sounds like you keep reading the same Mentor tropes that makes you rather narrow minded. D&D...okay so it's old Fantasy...what? You saying about it's self-inserting, with nonsensical story elements, and rigid, are the very same problems or annoyance readers have with YA Fantasy and Modern Fantasy that can also be rigid, many self-inserting characters, with nonsensical stories, meandering, and oh guess what....fantasy. Isn't fantasy in a way supposed to be not fully understand (there still needs to be some kind of logic to make a believe story in some way yes) and to go with our imagination wildly? Believe it or not, these fantasy genres are almost similar to another. It's the matter of how an author writes and comes across these materials is what makes a Fantasy story unique.

[@Matrim42]

Re: banging against trees Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.