#12 Lisa Kaltenegger - Alien Earths, Astrobiology Controversies, Frequency of Life

In this week's episode, David is joined by Lisa Kaltenegger, Professor at Cornell and Director of the Carl Sagan Institute. Lisa's new book, "Alien Earths", has just hit the shelves so we talk about what made her write this book, her view on the abundance of life in the cosmos, and her take on a couple of recent controversies in the field of astrobiology.
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Lisa’s book, “Alien Earths: The New Science of Planet Hunting in the Cosmos” a.co/d/iQFE2X5
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[@vee2877]

What an absolutely lovely guest! I don’t understand how she can sound so calm and so excited at the same time, but I’m here for it. Thanks for sharing such fascinating insights!

[@geoffreynhill2833]

SEMAPHORE ALERT !!! 👺

[@KevinCullen]

Lisa (and David) is a joy to listen to. What a treat to be able to hear into the minds of those who are doing such wonderful science. Learning about their passions is an inspiration, with each and every interview. Their thoughts and insights never fail to leave a lasting and thought provoking slice of their own flavor of fascination in my mind. Thank you David and Cool Worlds for illuminating these captivating scientists who dedicate themselves to moving our understanding of reality forwards through their dedication and hard work. Your content and your approach to topics with your wonder and intellect truly nourishes and grows my adoration of the sciences as a layperson from the IT world. I genuinely look forward to everything Cool Worlds related.

[@kevinme6487]

This is a great insight into what’s happening out there. First for me is buy the book. Construction worker Scotland. Loved this.

[@flinxsl]

As an engineer I remember learning about interferometry by reading about the Darwin mission. I was especially excited when the event horizon telescope used the technique to take a picture of a black hole.

[@CaliforniaBushman]

I agree with John Michael Godier on Multicellular Life evolving from Single Cellular Life (Prokaryotic to Eukaryotic Life?) being the largest Great Filter. Then large brained land life with opposable thumbs, perhaps. I'm starting to believe large O2 concentrations & combustion & the ability to smelt metal on land are prerequisites for most Technical Civilizations. These Great filters among dozens more may render Technical Civilizations exceptionally rare.

[@NeckNotes]

True but the conditions that we evolved in and even better situations must be spread all through the universe

[@leoborganelli]

Very well stated. Agree with you 100 %

[@anniealexander9911]

I believe that JMG has changed his position on multicellular life being a great filter. Think it was about a year or so ago, and think he's mentioned it in passing on his channel as well as Event Horizon. Some new research came out indicating that it was actually a much easier change than originally thought. I think a big hurdle is when life evolves. We are at the tale end of Earth's habitability. In 100-120 million years the continents will have reformed into a mega continent making much of the land mass uninhabitable. By the time the continent breaks up the planet will be becoming uninhabitable from the sun getting hotter 😬

[@davecarsley8773]

John no longer agrees with this.

[@KerryMartin-tc4jm]

David, I admire your integrity. Keep it up. Watching your podcast with Dr. Kaltenegger compels me to advise you to read Nick Lane's "Life Ascending" if you haven't already. It ties in with the challenge of defining bio-signatures. Life is physics at the molecular and atom level.

[@bryandraughn9830]

The coolest thing about Venus is that a system like ours can develop MORE than 1 Earth sized planet in or near the habitable zone. How she can have any respect for the science "journalists" out there is beyond me. Excellent interview!

[@chrisgenever7002]

Thank you for this interview! What a great use of my time :)

[@xeanilshutes6485]

Thank you for this david. I love your podcast and am looking forward to future episodes!

[@H4ppyCustom3r]

Awesome we are being spoiled with 2 episodes of the Cool Worlds podcast in the last few weeks 💙👍 thank you Ps. Professordude you starting to look real ripped good job 🤟

[@Penrose707]

Just finding the podcast channel now. What a treat. Additionally it was a pleasure to hear from Dr. Kaltenegger

[@Ethank33]

Damn I'm beginning to think life on earth started with an alien on a pitstop to take a shit in the ocean😂

[@gavinsaunders01]

So you’re saying it wasn’t panspermia it was panspooia?

[@colleenb.873]

Love this episode! Life WILL always find a way ❤

[@farielvolador]

Simply a superb conversation. A must to understand current search for biosignatures out there

[@steverafferty4114]

You two are brilliant thank you

[@Blong52]

Loved it

[@paketisa4330]

I love how Lisa sometimes randomly says the sentence twice.

[@01Grimjoe]

A lot going on in there ;)

[@AndrewBlucher]

Evidence for the matrix

[@anticorncob6]

It worries me that she has dementia.

[@jonathonjubb6626]

Well now! Saving this till later.... Nice one Kipping!

[@MrMark595]

I love this stuff. Please let their be life out there and let's hope they are more enlightened and further on than us.

[@markmcarthy596]

There is. They are

[@darthzelius1906]

Im more and more skeptical about intelligent life, moreover I don’t even know if we should hope for some other civilisation… we will see

[@cyanea-]

just found this! dope!

[@arvelcrynyd6311]

I was the 420th “Like” on April 20th. Blaze it.

[@mattpage9826]

Fantastic conversation. And I would like to second her suggestion on an exomoon book.

[@shanecreamer6889]

Here's hoping that the Colussus dedicated Planetary telescope is still on the table from Jeff Kuhn. It will be able to directly sample habitable worlds at a fraction of a price as the Next Gen JWST successor.

[@eternisedDragon7]

Actually, according to at least 2 more recent studies, we know that animals existed on earth not just 500 million years ago but 1.6 billion years ago, from fossils that were harder to identify because organisms were more squishy back then, and bones are more durable.

[@anticorncob6]

When did they say animals didn't exist before 500 Ma?

[@tendertales1]

1 mil incoming for the channel soon🎉

[@jamie9680]

Another sub for you mate. You make a good guest yourself (funnier than you think you are). Lisa was an absolute delight.

[@aceundead4750]

Dinosaurs on a spaceship! Lol the dinosaur part of the convo is where i started thinking about Doctor Who, just a few minutes before Lisa did

[@davidb2380]

Great Podcast, technical question: When it was mentioned that the Methane spectral line does is not able to measure all of the Methane, are you really saying that for that line, it is optically thick ? If so, is there an Isotope line sufficiently strong but optically thin so that one can get a better idea of the Methane ? How about interviewing some time Sara Seager ?

[@furbs9999]

Thank you, though some time stamps would be helpful.

[@ThisIsLeeBird]

What camera do you use?

[@suyapajimenez516]

We need a little more of volume 🥲🙏🏻

[@johnfallas3627]

So, when’s yours coming out? And what’s it about?

[@FakeJelly212]

Which exoplanet are they referring to with 1.2 sigma DMS? K2-18b? 1:17:25

[@Snaveltjeskrant]

Yes

[@tigertiger1699]

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@gavinsaunders01]

There will always be alternative explanations for every potential detection of alien life in an atmosphere so will never really know unless we go there.

[@user-dc6cy9cg6r]

It was an interesting conversation except that I think to much effort is being considered to life as it is on earth at this particular time and place. I think biological evolution and its resilience is being confused with the conditions necessary for abiogenesis. I would say that while its true almost all stars have planetary systems we have yet to find one like our own. And even in our neck of the woods the Earth - Moon system is unique as well. As with so many other factors that made the abiogenesis possible here. I agree the numbers on the probability for life other than ourselves are absolutely astronomical but I also take into account that the probability of the occurrence of abiogenesis might be a number so infinitely small that we could be alone. I agree with you that we have to keep open unclouded minds because the real answer is we just don't know.

[@anniealexander9911]

I used to be extremely optimistic about life elsewhere in the universe (I blame growing up watching Star Trek), but have become more and more and more pessimistic the older I get. My view has become: if the answer is even just there is no other life in our galaxy then we will never know. We'll just keep doing what we do now which is "ah, but..." everytime another pessimistic result is returned. If the answer is "no" then there will always be a get out clause (but we haven't looked here, we need a bigger telescope, we're using the wrong telescopes, we need a $30B telescope etc) to cling on to. So, I'm going with that anything outside of our galaxy is probably out of the question - too far away to measure - and I'm assuming there is no other life in Milky Way at the same time as us. I'm even becoming pessimistic we'll ever get out of the solar system. The issue with red dwarfs is not the colour of the sun. The problem is the tidal locking stripping rocky planets of their atmosphere, hurricane winds, frozen atmospheres. I assume this is why the results for the atmosphere for Trappist-1 planets in the habitable zone is taking so long. I assume the results are pessimistic, and people are focusing their hope on them, and the results are going to create a lot of media interest. We need to move on from red dwarfs. We need future telescopes to inform about yellow and orange dwarfs. Until then, red dwarf systems will start chipping away at the hope that was discussed in this podcast

[@michaelrowsell1160]

Could life have arrived on earth with the water from comets .

[@johncarter1150]

Yes

[@blogsfred3187]

Look up the concept of panspermia. It’s been discussed on this channel

[@XXplosiveUK]

I bet her arms ache like hell. Never seen such busy hand gestures while talking 😂😂😂

[@iluvweezies5688]

Lisa who :)

[@EarlyRains]

When talking about how life began isnt it quite plausible it actually started in another solarsystem and was allready hitchhiking on the asteroids/rocks that formed our planet. Especially considering from what i have understood there were far more solar systems created a 6 billions years back in the than there was 4.5 billion years ago when our sun formed, that should mean statistically more chances for life to form then. It would also give more time for the complexity of life that we see to evolve if it didnt have to start from scratch here and instead had a few billion extra years of evolution

[@niksinclair8761]

I think if we don't find life in our solar system we have to go with rare Earth....

[@disconnected22]

I keep watching her hands....

[@markmcarthy596]

Universe and University are a contradiction of possibilities

[@joostonline5146]

There are 750 US billionaires... why isnt even 1 sponsering the build of space telescope for humanity

[@johncarter1150]

They are billionaires... probably extremely greedy and motivated, and ego driven.

[@blogsfred3187]

Look up seti, breakthrough, these are being funded by billionaires. Also blue origins, spacex are enabling space exploration

[@faizanrana2998]

There are starving people and diseases which they could also fund - probably more deserving than a fucking telescope

[@AndrewBlucher]

Check out Yuri Milner and the Breakthrough Starshot Initiative

[@gagarinone]

In the end of 1800's a US billionaire sponsored the first US astronomical observatory in return for it to bear his name. You can be clever and appeal to billoionerae vanity.

[@MikkelGrumBovin]

Try Listen to Jason Breshears ! The - hands down - greatest chronologist to ever have walked this earth ! He can tell you a thing or two about DATES, Kalendars , and Ancient History - Not the usual Billy Carson /Graham Hanckock Atlantis balderdash drivel -'

[@adamfollat719]

Dr Flex

[@NateSmokes816]

Lisa Kalt-a-whatnow?

[@xlostlovex]

How many did you count? I count ten.

[@joelweidenfeld471]

LIKE Gábor Szabó. I always said that In 90.percent of cases one or both people want to disconnect , usually at least one and thus is just a good excuse... here no ONE even told THEM to, give me a break.YOU ALL HAVE no idea what WENT down...on its face the dad has SOME BULL SHITTTD STORY about rejecting the kid because of a flight of steps and he's felt guilty all THESE years. ..and who knows if he didn't cheat on the women who THEN divorced him

[@XAirForce]

I want to bring up the fact that we’re not done studying live here on earth yet like using AI to learn to communicate with everything around us before we reach out into space. We wouldn’t be having wars and environmental crisis the way we are if we respected the life that was even here so it gets a little ridiculous talking about life outside of this planet when we don’t hand ourselves correctly. Our next social evolution is to unify as an entire world. That would bring us the most efficiency and which would help ensure our continued existence and it’s the thing that makes the most sense. there are no religions and there is only one group of people here with the habitable planet being way too far away for us to go to with current technology so we need to start acting in the most efficient manner possible. 8:28 STEM girls grow up to model planets : ). Why don’t S.T.E.M. girls have a runway to walk down and show their planet models on like the fashion models do because this is more important 😂. I posted this on Discord under the last article that I was commenting on and as I’m looking, Lisa and the sun both have red hair.😂 I was just commenting about nuclear fusion and there was a picture of the sun corona and she’s sitting right underneath it, and they kinda looked the same. That should be her new hairstyle is to go to work, looking like the sun with her hair, moosed and sticking out in different directions. 😅

[@johncarter1150]

Please find your way back to some form of rational reality.

[@XAirForce]

@@johncarter1150 that is reality. You’re one of the people that would still be living in a village with a chieftain if you had your own way.

[@XAirForce]

@@johncarter1150 I’m retired military and I’ve worked around nuclear weapons so my mental capability isn’t up for question but yours absolutely is. I also ran for president in 2020. I’ve also responded to natural disaster around this country and been to war zones so your opinion really doesn’t matter to me.

[@XAirForce]

I have over 850 videos on KZbin and you haven’t published anything nor is your comment useful in any way because you’re not backing up anything you’ve said. You just make a general statement that makes no sense because that is the next evolution in society. I think you need to go look at history, and the current situation were in fighting wars amongst nations, and then you should be able to realize that that’s exactly what we need because there is only one set of people there.

[@napalmholocaust9093]

I definitely did not hear that right. Sounded like you introduced count Dracula's racist cousin.

[@Christina-mx1nr]

Optics and bioengineering? Cool…look HERE

[@hahtos]

SpaceX's Starship will revolutionize space-based telescope science and engineering. It could have launched JWST unfolded. With the minuscule launch cost compared to existing rockets and much simpler telescope engineering, you could put literally a constellation of JWSTs out there.

[@CoolWorldsPodcast]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYSxnKinecSNmLMsi=gfdTaGQiJAzaNZuM

[@hahtos]

@@CoolWorldsPodcast Haha, smarter people have already thought about all these things it seems

[@MichaelZimmermann]

Imagine putting a folded telescope on Starship. That way, it could be even bigger 🤯

[@sicko_the_ew]

My take on the rare Earth possibility (apart from the fact that I think all things are possible - that's the state of our measured knowledge right now) is on the matter of Responsibility. If life is rare, it could be rare enough to only have happened here. (There are no real statistics, so that's the kind of possibility we have to settle for). So what if that's the case? That means (to me, anyway) that there's a natural Responsibility on us to take out the insurance policies life needs. (Because if life itself is this rare, our kind of intelligence is already proven to be incredibly rare - unless the previous civilization used something as primitive as buildings, and these all got turned into glacial morraine or something.) One of the many possible scenarios is that we're the only intelligent beings ever, and if left to chance, will remain so. That means "It's Up To Us". If intelligence as we know it (or "to this level" in stranger ways) is everywhere, there's nothing "mission critical" about our missions of discovery, and quests to explore and extend. There's "someone out there" who's got this. Relax. It's all just a game. All you're doing as an astronomy is repeating some version of the progress the nearest million year civilization made in their early years. And you're the millionth (just to give it a big number) to do this. Once again some beings discovered the items on your intellectual checklist that take a civilization beyond something like astrology and "little stars" that twinkle twinkle "in the Sky". As a game that's nothing to scoff at. Must have been fun for us to get started like this without guidance. Well done. Bing bong High Score, Play Again? However it's different if we're what will either become the million year civilization, or dinosaurs whose bones will never be examined by a being like us. Responsibility. I think we need to at least behave as if we're the Caretakers - or even the Foster Parents of this Earth and those other Earths etc. Until we have data, it's all up to us. And it's a game, too, hey? And it's maybe good enough if it ends up just being a game. Great game. Makes life fun. Life is all very well and quite nice really. But Fun is Better?

[@robertwhite1810]

Is she signing for the deaf?

[@xlostlovex]

Pretty sure she is overjoyed for the habitable worlds observatory in 2040

[@Ai-he1dp]

Billions maybe trillions spent on other planets and that's ok? why no live stream from the moon of our home planet earth? technologically not possible? No interest after thousands of years of wondering what our planet looks like from space, a few pictures from the moon etc and thats it? Two cameras please live streaming from the moon, one in zoom mode i think would be incredibly interesting especially to children! Strange?

[@jasonshapiro9469]

Am I the only one who clicked on here thinking this was an old interview with Morrissey ..should of read description I guess lol

[@alexswage1853]

Sharefacts/ Aliens races spacecrafts been visiting and observing primitive earth mankind for thousand years! Earth mankind is very primitive with very limited intelligence as warrior race that's 400years behind in scientific sciences

[@johncarter1150]

Zero evidence for your delusions.

[@leoborganelli]

What the fuck did you just try to convey? Please your grammar is so bad that we can't understand the context of your statement

[@Stellarcrete]

The diversity of life. You are in love with DEI and every campus/institute is scrambling to show it is more woke than the next. It's easy to see why there is such a bias toward the Carl Sagan view. However, let's examine how the diversity of life actually works to prove it's trunklike origin rather than a much less likely bushy tail. Since we know life is resilient, can emerge in all different kinds of environments and can't easily be sterilized away.....................................how do you explain all proteins being L? Surely, if R proteins were possible, they could emerge in all the places L proteins can emerge and couldn't be easily sterilized or outcompeted away. It makes sense that there are only 4 bases in DNA and RNA has a fifth, because all the life that RNA and DNA creates can outcompete even slightly less fortuitous or advantage life, but even Archaea have RNA and DNA of the same molecular composition so if life emerged twice, it would have had to have done so prior to archaea and been outcompeted into complete extinction. But none of this explains why all proteins are L. Further, if you manufacture proteins they are both L and R in equal measure. That seems like very strong evidence life didn't start too many times and most likely just once.

[@FreeYoutubeChat]

Symmetry is a thing. But not with this haircut😂👍🏻

[@Nerzhina]

Why are you so anti-life; intelligent life & advanced intelligent life in the universe? Is it because you as a scientist are afraid to step outside the safe, sterile world of academia & university don’t dare think outside the box syndrome? Albert Einstein said, “Imagination is more important than knowledge.” Think about Einstein’s words, perhaps then you as a scientist will open your mind to expansive thinking.

[@richschmitt100]

Why does she smile and laugh while speaking? Strange.

[@user-zs7wc1mx5t]

when 2 annoying voices come together for a podcast... wow - im surprised the world didnt blow up... I lost all my nerves on this one.