12 min on how to evaluate WW2 Battle Damage

A subscriber and me have been digging more into this aircraft and its fate. It seems that my overall interpretation of this plane being shot down over France seems more likely. I have contacted the Swiss site for more information on this picture, they have yet to respond. Personnaly, I now very much doubt that their use of the picture is correct however. It seems likely that it was in fact shot down near Lille, France. Who shot it down is somewhat of a mystery, Hurricanes and French MS406 all shot down planes in the area on the same day.
⚜ Support My Work ⚜
- You can support my Channel with Patreon: / milavhistory
- You can support my Channel with a donation [Paypal]: www.paypal.me/BismarckYT
⚜ Find Me On Social Media ⚜
- Twitter: / milavhistory
- Facebook: / militaryaviationhistory
⚜ Sources ⚜
Original Reddit post: goo.gl/DWcP9y
History of the picture: www.amicaleaviation4.ch/html/1... (Thank you 'Goldelite')
⚜ Musik von www.epidemicsound.com ⚜

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

*Edit: ATTENTION: A subscriber and me have been digging more into this aircraft and its fate. It seems that my overall interpretation of this plane being shot down over France seems more likely. I have contacted the Swiss site for more information on this picture, they have yet to respond. Personnaly, I now very much doubt that their use of the picture is correct however. It seems likely that it was in fact shot down near Lille, France. Who shot it down is somewhat of a mystery, Hurricanes and French MS406 all shot down planes in the area on the same day. The investigation continous. This is obviously a massive topic, condensed into 12 min. A lot can be added and expanded. For example: how heavy AA delay fuses work and how the explosive damage differs from subsequent shrapnel damage. I focus mainly on shrapnel here since I think many misinterpreted the holes of the He 111 as shrapnel damage. The pictures shown (except the main pic) are mainly with AA damage but there is always a chance that +70 years later, something gets mislabelled. Which emphasizes the point I am making. Anyway, I know all of you understand the necessity to limit scope and depth of such a video to the core so I hope all of you enjoyed!

[@withnail1967]

Bismarck Very compelling analysis - thanks for posting.

[@jkeat5512]

Bismarck I have a question- How do you know that a 20mm hit that He 111? The size of the hole?

[@jonathancarshow9573]

Bismarck it says​ 11:56 Otto would not be proud. I expected 12 on the dot but I'm just fuckin with you I know it's a great video yet I'm busy now but you've never disappointed before. A and a personal opinion in ww1 the germans went to war with the confidence of Bismarck behind them I feel like that was the most negative effect on their leadership. Bismarck was a great leader and the Kaiser didn't have the skill that he had. You should make a video about Bismarck and what he did in his life time I feel like their hasn't been a politician yet to reach his greatness. He was for sure a master in politics and conducting warfare and when to. I feel like he gave Germany the confidence to conduct the war but was not their to lead them and the Kaiser in my opinion was not fit for the job mainly due to Bismarck taking the controlling role which was not a bad thing for Germany as it created Germany but really hampered them when he was gone

[@viniciussouza3139]

My first guess was a Spitfire Mk.IIb. Guess I should study a little more about switzerland at WW2, then.

[@BillMcD]

I am guessing there aren't that many people who have spent a long time studying bullet strikes on the internet. You hit the nail on the head bismarck. Only thing odd to me is just seeing 20mm holes, normally i expect some sort of blow out from an HE warhead, but that may just be my video game experience talking. if it were flak that somehow managed to only shrapnel into small pellets, there would still be a direction of convergence pointing from the direction of the explosion. All those trails lead to the back of the plane though so it had to be someone shooting from behind. I suspect though a number of those shots on the vertical tail surface were while the plane was turning or a side attack. Some of the patterns look too round for them to just be shots from behind.

[@xwillxfrostx]

Turn this into a series! "Period combat photos - speculation and explanation"

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Might be an idea!

[@p0xus]

I approve aswell

[@taotoo2]

+1 we need you to do this

[@navyboieatscheese2017]

@@MilitaryAviationHistory YES PLEASE

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

nice! I almost forgot that I posted this until you told me about it a few days, glad you made a video out of it.

[@MilitaryHistoryVisualized]

of course we are, but am I not allowed to talk to myself?

[@billcounterstrike]

Joe Schmuckatelli I can't tell if you're trolling or not

[@WildBillCox13]

Attend one of their cooperative livestreams to hear the difference in inflection and variations in pronunciation of English. They're two very different but very interesting, young men.

[@Imblu95]

hell yea i got em all right except that it was a swiz pilot, i thoug it must be a bf109 that did friendly fire.

[@dougdenhamlouie]

This is not 20mm damage to the rudder. 5 shots with a 20mm to a rudder would have pool ball sized holes it. Likely you see a 50cal and .30 cal mix.

[@Bengtssonsan]

Imagine being in that He 111, lost and trying to get back to germany. Suddenly they see two Bf 109, which should be a certain sign that they have reached safety. Then comes the horror when those 109s open fire.

[@MrSinny]

Bengtssonsan Well, the crew, if it happened during day with a clear weather could have easily identified Swiss aircraft seeing their roundels and knowing the nationality of the plane, they surely knew what will happen.

[@jonaspfister682]

In clear weather they would have seen that it isn't a aircraft of the German Luftwaffe. The Swiss Bf109 were painted completely different then the German ones. Sorry for my maybe not so good English and Greetings from Dübendorf

[@dylanmilne6683]

Funnily enough, on the link in the description it says the "tail gunner Opened fire on them" I would guess dorsal gunner as there isn't really a true tail gunner for the '111.

[@schmiddy8433]

They knew they were going into swiss airspace and I imagine they would know that the swiss were armed with bf-109s

[@johnsilver6525]

I feel that those 20 mm hits on the tail were made from both sides as the tail was moving side to side trying to avoid being shot down

[@residentevil742]

Switzerland is the country equivalent of the grumpy old man who yells get off my lawn then starts shooting at you with a .30 caliber rifle.

[@xmm-cf5eg]

Then captures you for crashing your aircraft on his porch.

[@evanwickstrom5698]

Ah, good ol’ Mr. Johnson. Trick-or-treating hasn’t been the same since the feds slapped him with some light felony charges and took his M1 Carbine away.

[@jonrok100]

Lets play a drinking game, everytime bismarck says "kinda" take a shot.

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Last Man Standing speak up to claim your Iron Cross

[@user-do1kg1py1d]

i hear this with ro2 voice in my head as zhe germans

[@schmiddy8433]

Bismarck I'm still standing because I know how to choose my fights.

[@Dragonspeaksopinions]

Every time he says a word at all

[@Rutang835]

This had a more entertaining end twist that most movies

[@mossfoster5317]

Wow, that's really cool, I love speculation over old photos, specially downed planes. Thanks for making the video!

[@matchesburn]

>"Oh, it was flak." >elongated holes all in tail and fuselage that look .30 caliber and up, extremely uniform Erm... How did anyone think this? Flak is shrapnel projectiles. It is quite impossible even for the most well-engineered and built shells to have uniform detonation/explosion, let alone *_uniform shrapnel._* It there's 1,000 pieces of shrapnel generated in a shell's explosion, there will probably be at least 1,000 different shapes and sizes of projectiles.

[@scotiabricks]

Just discovered your channel and I am really enjoying your content. I work at an aviation museum restoring WW2-Cold War Era aircraft and it's nice to see a KZbin channel devoted to aviation history. Keep up the great work :)

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Cheers Trevor!

[@richardmeyeroff7397]

This is a great video. It covers something in detail that usually is just stated not researched. and gives many of us a basis to evaluate what we are looking at. I see that a # of people have asked you to extend this series I hope that you will do so and go into more detail about the type of damage that each weapon could do/

[@ysbrandvdvelde4352]

5:04 R.I.P tailgunner

[@sergeantdetritus4273]

Ysbrand vd Velde Actually, there's a pretty good story to that one - by some miracle the tail gunner's section was blown free without seriously injuring him, and other bomber crews reported seeing him flying through the air still on his seat and holding his gun handles. He was knocked unconscious but apparently woke up in time to pull his parachute. The aircraft was called Hang the Expense III. www.ww2incolor.com/us-air-force/351st100thbg.html

[@WildBillCox13]

So cool. Thanks for sharing.

[@schiz0phren1c]

Thumbs up for the info...(I wonder would The Piecemaker" make a good AA Weapon? for the name :) one of my favourite Terry Pratchett characters!

[@willa.568]

HE-111 did not have tail gunner. However, the later versions on the aircraft had a fixed, unmanned 7.69mm machine gun that couldn't move around. It was used for scaring off British fighters. But then again, it wasn't even on the aircraft in the picture because of it being a early model.

[@WildBillCox13]

Good point. On the He 111 there was a dorsal gunner at the aft end of the cockpit and a ventral/aft gunner at back of the gondola on the bottom of the hull. This sort of tends to explain the spread and fall of shot in the photo, as the enemy pilot was trying to stay slightly above (to be out of the FOF of the ventral gun) and straight behind the tail empennage (to make it hard on the dorsal gunner), in order to avoid riposte.

[@pux0rb]

Very interesting video Bismarck! I'm subscribing.

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Thank you and welcome :)

[@michaelb3363]

Thank you for this. Your arguments were very well organized and presented, and you also did the most unusual thing, which is emphasizing that your position was entirely speculative despite the use of logic and experience. The punch line about the Swiss Me 109's really made your point about speculation, and you used the information brilliantly to point out the hazards of assuming knowledge not in evidence. I didn't know a thing about Swiss defense of neutral airspace, but it doesn't surprise me when I think about it a little. The Swiss have always been as serious as a heart attack about their neutrality. Fine work indeed!

[@MilesStratton]

i have seen this photo as long as i can remember and i had no idea what the background of it was. thanks for sharing this with us Bismarck!

[@pascalchauvet4230]

Very very clever analisis. Thank you so much for posting!

[@idleonlooker1078]

Thank you for your analysis of differentiation between heavy and medium flak damage. Very interesting and informative! 👍

[@peterbourne5926]

Fascinating video thank you. I always like all of your shows they are so good. Pete

[@justelynnnjoelle]

great video! I've always been a history buff since I was old enough to not wear a bib and THIS topic has been of great interest to me and you cleared up quite a bit of my biased knowledge, thank you!

[@tristanfloris9970]

real nice vid, well done!

[@tomt.1825]

Very interesting! 20's and rifle caliber damage..., definitely a puzzler. But you broke it down nicely. Plus confirmation!

[@guldham]

amazing video, good job!

[@petrameyer1121]

Well done Bis.

[@stoneblue1795]

Enjoyed your forensic review!

[@lukedaduke3533]

Interesting video, good job!

[@LupusAries]

Hey Bismarck it is absolutely clear that this bomber was brought down by Birdstrike! Sparrows, to be exact! 20mm and 40mm Sparrows! ;)

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Hah !

[@jondho530]

You explain things well and carefully explain any potential misunderstandings. You know your material very well and I'm genuinely impressed at your presentation skill. But foremost this was entertaining, which is why I subscribed. Can you do a video about the use of proximity fuses in AAA? I've heard it was a closely guarded secret by the US because they were so effective compared to timed fuses. Also I heard they were only used in the Pacific to maintain secrecy. I think it might make an interesting topic and shed some light on a technology that doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.

[@scarcatch]

Around 250 bombers and fighters where shot down, crashlanded or just ran out of fuel and had to land somewhere. Around 80 B24, B17 and Lancaster's crashlanded in Duebendorf durring the war. Some of the crewman from these bombers are still around, 15 or so. Some of them are still in Switzerland to this day.

[@NashmanNash]

Because they are still not allowed to leave because they discovered secret swiss factories...*Bell rings*..Sorry,gotta go ... ... ... "Nooo don´t take me,i won´t tell anybody about what i know,please,i dont wan´t to go to switzerland arrrrghhhh*

[@DrRich-mw4hu]

WOW!! Well presented! You convinced me, and I agree. Thank you! 🤔👍

[@petesampson4273]

Excellent analysis! I would like to add a little personal history. My Uncle Walter was a engineering officer with a P-47 squadron, I'm having a senior moment and can't recall the number, that was based in France late in the war. A single Bf-109 made a strafing run on their base and it was brought down by a .50 cal M2 machine gun mounted on a half-track. A single .50 cal round hit the main wing spar and almost sheered it off. The initial damage caused the wing to fold and then the extreme loads ripped the spar off completely about 18 inches outside of where the round hit. The original point of impact remained attached by an amazingly slim chunk of tortured metal. Uncle Walter managed to save about 3.5 feet of the spar, shaped like a relaxed "L", and even managed to ship it home. It was the centerpiece of his den until his wife donated it to a museum upon his death. That old hunk of metal intrigued me to no end. Every time I visited Uncle Walter I would spend most of said visit pondering that piece of wing spar and it held some lessons. 1. Never underestimate the power of a .50 BMG. It would not have been as effective as a cannon if the U.S. was trying to shoot down B-17s but it was more than up to the task against fighters. 2. When an airplane breaks up it does so in weird and unpredictable ways. That spar was totally destroyed for about 95% of its cross section but the part that actually separated was 18 inches away and never hit by any bullet or shrapnel. 3. My first degree is in chemical engineering and I think that wing spar was one of the chief reasons why I went into the manufacture of munitions and then studying ballistics. Getting the most bang for the buck, whether it's my own hand loads or a military cartridge, has been my life's passion. 4. If I was given the job of equipping a military from scratch I think my first purchase would be a butt-load of M2 heavy machine guns! Of all the weapons devised by man I think you would be hard-pressed to find one that will last longer without ever being deemed obsolete. Cheers!

[@marosenmd1664]

You may be already aware of this, but, if not, the Figure appearing in your video @5'07" ...... Directional Fragmentation Density... is labelled "WRAMC-4829-A18, A9" was a report published by WALTER REED ARMY MEDICAL CENTER, Washington, DC. It was a detailed report written by an AAF medical officer (physician/surgeon) during 1943-44 on the types of injuries sustained by bomber crews as a result of FLAK hits on heavy bombers. I recognized the image and remembered the source, it was the only ballistic analysis that was applied directly to the study of traumatic air combat injuries of US-AAF air crew members that I ever came across. You're use of such excellent and well established sources of reference for your analysis is most impressive. I have enjoyed every one of your uploads that I have thus far seen. Ihre Arbeit ausgezeichnet ist. danke sehr!

[@RemusKingOfRome]

Excellent analysis ... yes I was wondering about the 20mm holes.

[@Sverge]

Nice video, I just discovered your channel. btw I was wondering why you have a fleur de lis in your video titles?

[@xgford94]

Well done!

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

Absolutely fascinating.

[@HjalfnarFeuerwolf]

Very well done research! The hole on the bottom also catched my eye but I (other then you) couldn't fathom anything that would cause such a kind of damage. Thank you Sir!

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Cheers :)

[@spawniscariot9756]

Great video on a fascinating subject! I have a quick question on terminology. When you talk about delay fuses for heavy AA ammo, are you referring to fuses designed to activate at a certain height/time after firing, or proximity fuses? A delay fuse, to me at least, would seem to indicate one designed to activate after penetrating the airframe.

[@00yiggdrasill00]

that was a hell of a study, very interesting to watch

[@symie8]

Your sim flying is nice. Do you fly in DCS? If not would you fly in it now there is a WW2 Normandy Map?

[@artificiallift9110]

Interesting video! Just wondering what software you use to record and produce your IL-2 videos?

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

Record: NVIDEO Shadowplay. Edit and Render: Sony Vegas

[@GypsMoth13]

great post with a twist ending

[@pierauspitz]

Very interesting analysis Bismarck! And a very good reminder to be critical about what we see. There is one thing that bugs me though: the guy on the right looks a lot like wearing a french Armée de l'Air uniform. It's very dark (navy blue in real life) and even seems to show the characteristic bright (gold) shoulder stripe and specific flat cap. The one on the left also seems very "dark", more in tune with b&W rendering of french army Kaki rather than the light grey Swiss uniforms(they tend to show quite bright on B&W picture). They also had a very characteristic cut, very similar to German uniforms. The headgear were also specific (either a tall kepi or a German-style field cap). Neither of these men seem to fit this description. Mystery mystery.

[@VicodinGH]

Bo brought me here...and I think I have to go ahead and watch all your videos haha :D

[@wesleyjarboe9571]

"...if a shell from a heavy Flak hits scores a direct hit on the aircraft, and goes off, it's pretty much good night for the aircraft." This is an understatement of galactic proportions. Since Flak is a German word, we'll use the German 88mm Flak as our example. Allied heavy AA guns, such as the American 90mm, had similar performance. The Wikipedia article for the 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37/41 noted, "All versions were able to penetrate about 200 mm (7.9 inches) of armour at 1,000 m (3280 feet), allowing it to defeat the armor of any contemporary tank." In other words, if a King Tiger, one of the heaviest tanks in the war, received a direct hit by a shell from a 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37/41 it would be good night for the tank. If one of those shells scored a direct hit on an aircraft, and went off inside the aircraft, you're not gonna have an aircraft left. That aircraft will be coming down in pieces.

[@phxJohn2010]

Hey Bismarck, fantastic video. When you mentioned the snowball effect, I cringed. I've been slowly building an online museum dedicated to the Douglas A-26 Invader. I've researched this plane for years. I have photos of at 20% of all Invaders built. It seems like every other day I come across some error, myth, or misconception that has been perpetuated but is completely wrong. A lot of times these errors even make their way into books.

[@nathaniel5756]

I have a book back home with this photograph and others taken from the RAF archives, will try to dig out its explaination this week

[@sharky09000]

Very interesting outcome👍

[@jmoney3613]

Very interesting video

[@Richardcecker]

Interesting. Thanks!

[@palomino73]

One if not the most important information about this photo/case is: Did the bomber-crew survive their downing? Else: Well done dedication. Did you use "tinyeye" for researching the circumstances ?

[@Terrados1337]

Those 20mm hits probably did not contain a lot of explosive judging from the size of the holes. The Emil used the MG FF which was a licensed produced Oerlikon and it didn't fire mineshells (MINENGESCHOSSE! JAWOLL!) so that would make sense (MG FF/M did? Not quite sure atm). I have seen pictures of mineshells hits and it ain't pretty. Maybe I am just missjudging the size of the He-111. Just spinning some thoughts :)

[@residentevil742]

If I remember the swiss had E-3s which had MG FFs which didn't fire mineshells while the Germans had the E-4s that had MG FF/m which did fire mineshells. So it's a real possibility that the plane was hit by a regular MG FF and not a FF/m.

[@caveman13801]

Terrados1337 s

[@heisnotlongbutthin]

Seems correct the E-3 i seem to remeber didn´t feature the MG FF/m yet, those where included in the E-4 versions for the first time. (The E3 Variations for export also had the spezial desination E-3a i think) Even if that is not true i would assume the Germans would not have given the swizz the Minengeschoss or the licence to produce it anyway, Although i do think the germans sold the swizz enough ammo for the normal MG FF. Juding from the holes i think i was a healthy mix of 20mm AP and HE used on the E-3a.

[@Terrados1337]

It's nice to see people sharing information and personal thoughts :) This is a great community! Thanks to everyone :)

[@WildBillCox13]

I am in complete agreement with you there.

[@mikemontgomery2654]

Solid analysis. Definitely a combo of machine gun and cannon hits. That much stood out for me, especially with the apparent angles of those holes. The amount of holes also stood out, which tells me it was very likely a fighter that brought it down. The 111’s could take some serious damage before they would come down, which would require a lot of shots hitting the engines and airframe. That brings me to my next point. If you look at the engine beside the two men, it appears that it has been burnt, along with the skin of the airframe surrounding the engine. A popular target for fighter aircraft on both sides in order to bring the enemy down.

[@Rhinozherous]

Very interesting! Not only because history, also interesting because of how to argument!

[@WildBillCox13]

Well reasoned. I was so ready to call it a mixed armament Spit . . .

[@buzzbierbaum4026]

that was great info

[@scarcatch]

Hey Bis, have you visited the Museum in Dübendorf? It has great stuf there, ww1, intermediate war, ww2 and coldwar Airplanes AAA units SAM and lots of Aerial Gun's from P51's, 109s, D.520 and on and on....

[@MilitaryAviationHistory]

No, I've only been to Zurich and Geneva thus far. Maybe in the future!

[@ddjay1363]

I went to the RAF Museum in Hendon, UK. Lotsa cool stuff there.

[@ma-rz9rd]

i like the plot twist at the end!

[@Kyoptic]

Can we have some more CSI: Vintage Aircraft Photos?

[@teddy7746]

Please make this a series about deconstructing these types of photos!!!!!

[@aaronseet2738]

With your level of scrutiny I thought you were also going to analyse the angle of rays of light to determine what time of the day the photo was captured. :) Regarding the bottom rudder holes, isn't it pretty easy to hit _both_ port and starboard sides of an aircraft's rear when stalking from behind? After all, the fighter would be trying to align straight, while the bomber would be _frantically_ trying to manoeuvre itself out of alignment; wouldn't ruddering left and right be a common tactic? Thus exposing both sides for projectile entry/exit.

[@skipd9164]

If you look closely on the rudder. The damaged holes show that both sides got hit from there side. All flak amo had different types of destruction from balls (like shotguns ) to shrapnel . The closest hole on rudder about 5ft above fuselage shows the projectile came from other side and went through rudder leaving flaps of metal. The one above it has different characteristics meaning it entered from that side and exited out other side. It kinda looks like barrage firing. Where ever AA gun shoots same location and different heights . Basically a wall 10,000 ft high and a couple hundred feet thick and very wide. Planes get hit in all directions

[@rickroscoe4734]

Wonderful detective work. Yes, the Swiss flew Bf-109s throughout the wartime period, even though they were neutral.

[@brandonwright1791]

Fascinating, I've seen this photo a number of times and I too came to the conclusion that it was brought down early war by a cannon/MG armed fighter but based on the guy wearing the kepi hat I erroneously thought it must have been a Dewoitine D520.

[@Skreezilla]

With the fighter it looks as if it was slightly above due to the char marks, a big part of working out where a shot has gone is the exit hole, generally it will not be a nice round hole, it will be more jagged, so the tail the top holes are entry, I would have gone for a D.520 my self as a speculation due to uniform, but interesting it is swiss. It is hard to tell exactly so i would not feel to bad about that! as guessing a swiss BF109 is really a trick question. :p The other thing is it could well be a mix of Flak and plane fire, the damage to the side behind the Balkenkreuz could possibly be Flak related but hard to tell at this position. One thing i would say is also the grouping of the shots, because the small rifle caliber rounds are slightly to the sides more so than the cannon damage it would be possible to say this was a nose mounted cannon, and rule out wing mounted, as the damage appears to show a plane that was sitting directly on the six of the HE-111, and the gun config for the BF109 and D.520 would both be consistent to that grouping. Excellent video. :)

[@ChiangKaishek-du6yi]

It could also be a D.520, due to the very low spread of 20mm and very high spread of 7.5mm guns

[@paulhauron]

I need to say that it could be anything so far, there's so little information about that in that image.. but your mental experiment feels right

[@peterschmidt7543]

I believe.. A masters job done here, watta story !

[@mauserpauser4547]

most enjoyable!

[@margretfortune1524]

Looking at the aircraft, the thing i noticed was the left prop was min pitch (feathered) the cowl and wing surface are burt again with many small holes in the cowl. The damage to the tail and fuselage i surmised could have happened from a low level strafing. as the aircraft came down. The wing however, with the smaller holes, and black burn mark obscuring them appear to have happened before many of the ones further aft. There is raised metal and no flow marks from the oil you see on the horizontal stabilizer portside. So after hearing your synopsis, I can see, I can't see.

[@canicheenrage]

+Bismarck Impacts seem to indicate a shooter dead behind, the pattern ( central 20mm impacts and light machine gun fire around ) would be consistent with the armament of a D520 or a MS 406. If the Swiss didn't have the former, they had some squadrons equipped with their licenced version of the Morane; But it could as well have been the wing armament of a swiss 109 E. I am however curious : i've read repeated accounts of swiss shooting down germans during the battle of France, or in a reprisal operation against Switzerland. Any source for the french and italian aircraft shot down ?

[@chevysuarez7306]

Nice my speculation was a SAS raid with those holes made by .30 and .50 cal machine guns

[@victoriacyunczyk]

When he mentioned that one of the few planes with a mixed 20mm and rifle caliber armament was the Bf 109, I immediately thought of either friendly fire or the Swiss.

[@Caseytify]

Good analysis. I agree that the fuselage holes were made by a .30 (or .303) machine gun, and the vertical stabilizer certainly look like 20mm holes. The conclusion it was shot down by Swiss Bf-109s is defensible. I must, however, point out that the Dewotine D.520 carried a 20mm cannon, along with four 7.5mm machine guns. I doubt one can tell the difference between a 7.62mm & 7.5mm round penetration by eye alone. :)

[@thurin84]

4:43 looks like a ground taxing collision where the tailing arcraft chewed its way up the fuselage with its propeller.

[@VRichardsn]

Very, very interesting. I too would have put my money on Flak. Something very curious: where I live never snows, but during winter, hail is not uncommon. It tends to cause a lot of damage to cars, shop windows, etc. And large fabric/canvas/very light metal surfaces show a remarkably similar damage pattern to what we see in this picture.

[@michaelnorris5838]

you can make out lines in the bullet holes. it appears to have walked across the tail onto the rudder then down from above across tne rudder onto the fuselage..

[@Shrapnel82]

Could have sworn it was Colonel Mustard in the library with the revolver.

[@55chh]

Interesting!

[@Grandizer8989]

Good job as always. Can you settle an old argument and make a video about the B24 named 'Brief' that was shot down over Palau (former German territory btw)? There is a famous video where it looks like bombs fell on the port wing, but in reality, it was a direct hit by AA.

[@JohnRodriguesPhotographer]

If you keep in mind that we're only seeing one side of the rudder those larger holes could be the result of an entry on the other side of the rudder and subsequent tumbling of the bullet as it comes through. The outward bending of the metal on the two large holes would support the idea that it's an exit as opposed to an entry point for a bullet that is tumbling. A tumbling board actually does a tremendous amount of damage as it passes through the material that it's passing through whether it's metal or fabric. The damage to this he-111 looks to me like it was either a hurricane or a Spitfire that brought down this airplane. The damage to the fuselage looks like what would happen if you were in the Convergence Zone of an 8 gun aircraft. To my knowledge or recollection, the French did not have any 8 gunfighters. They also used 8 mm bullets on their aircraft I'm not good with metric so I'm thinking it's baby around 25 caliber. I'm American, so to me 25 caliber is why bother bringing it along! I like big rounds as in 30 caliber and above. If I had to guess the bullets that made these holes in the he-111 were 303 caliber.

[@ukoctane3337]

Bismarck could I get your opinion on the FW190 A3/U7 high altitude fighter prototypes? It seems to me they would have been capable of competeing with anything for the rest of the war despite them being 1942 aircraft, even maybe being the best fighter aircraft of the war if they went into production. Do you have any clue why they did not produce the design in numbers? Ad far as I know it wouldve been faesible so it baffles me as to why they didnt make more of them.

[@jhonlewis5758]

I feel like there would be more mountains if were in Switzerland, but in any case good job! I had at first predicted it was a combination of flak and fighters, based on the line of bullets going up from the elevator to the tip of the rudder, and the concentration of fire around the fuselage, but doesn't make that much sense now honestly.

[@rippertrain]

Subbed

[@sinisterjenks5443]

Before seeing the end of the video I was rather thinking if it could've been shot down by a Swedish bf109. Great content btw!

[@swedish992]

Swedish? We had no bf109 in sweden and nerver had, early war we had gloster gladiator, seversky p35,

[@sinisterjenks5443]

Hmm, I'm sure of what I read, but that was years ago. Maybe I've mistaken it for the Swiss afterall, so apologies for my error.

[@johnwanderin2524]

Sinister Jenks Finns had 109s but didn't fight the Germans until towards the end of the war and only in minor ground skirmishes I believe

[@swedish992]

not really minor, there was actually full conflict but not really the same intensity as when thy fought the russians

[@johnwanderin2524]

swedish992 I meant minor in scale to what else was going on but agreed, I could worded it better

[@davebeckley2584]

I only had to glance at the photo for a matter of a very few seconds to know, without a doubt, what brought this aircraft down: GRAVITY!

[@colebishoff1533]

Before the vid starts, I'm going to say something smaller based on the small and large holes. Not flak. Something with rifle caliber guns, maybe 1cannon. I'd guess a yak or something. Gonna say Russian over american since the holes from american are usually more uniform size due to the weapon load ie. Bunch of 50cal. Ahh crazy story I listened to a video about it yesterday! Super interesting! Love your channel. Great job as always!!

[@csnocke5]

That’s beautiful

[@LukasJampen]

Woooo Swiss. Dübendorf is really close to where I live xD

[@marcconyard5024]

This reminds me of a crashed He111 that had been hit by a Boulton Paul Defiant which was armed with a four gun power turret behind the pilot. Damage from a Defiant looks very similar due to the turret's four .303 guns being grouped together in a close box. I've read that a great deal of damage was done by Defiants if they hit targets within 250 yards. The rudder looks to be fabric covered hence the larger holes.

[@undeniablelogic1963]

I feel like a god with this knowledge.

[@alganhar1]

One thing that could explain the lower damage pattern, is if the pilot of the bomber hit hard rudder, so as the lower rounds hit, the rudder was hard the other direction. Least thats what it seems to me, the pilot of the bomber tried to take evasive action and some of the rounds hit the control surface at a different angle to the point of direction the control surface was facing at the start of the attack. That would certainly explain the difference in the lowest hit on the tail, that that particular round came in from a different angle, and the only thing I can think of that would explain that is the bomber pilot trying to evade, thus changing the angle the rounds would be hitting the surface.....

[@ddjay1363]

When I first saw the picture of the He 111, my initial instinct was that the damage was a mixture of MG and Cannon rounds, possibly 20mm.

[@assessor1276]

At first glance, it looks like the left engine had been on fire. I concur that it was unlikely to have been flak. I'd guess that he was attacked by a fighter (or two) from behind - likely British with 0.303" calibre weapons. They shot the heck out of the aircraft, set the engine afire, likely at low altitude and the pilot elected to force land. EDIT (after watching the video) yes, the hits in the rudder are bigger and could very well be 20mm cannon fire. As you say, the only likely candidates for that would be: a later Spitfire, a French MS-406 (which I think also had rifle calibre m/c guns and 20mm cannon, a Bf109 - likely flown by the Swiss. Very interesting analysis - thanks for sharing!

[@builder396]

3:40 You probably meant a time fuze (fuze that detonates a certain time (ergo a certain distance) after being fired) rather than a delay fuze (fuze that detonates a certain time after impact, such as after penetrating an armor plate). Other than that I could do with less repetitions, but other than that this was pretty nice.

[@tedsmith6137]

I thought that the damage on top of nearly all visible surfaces, i.e. both wings, both horizontal stabs and the fuselage, also tend to discount flak damage. Overall, logically argued. Well done!

[@jimcastor8601]

excellent

[@ArtoriusBravo]

4:16 "YOU HAVE A HOLE ON THE LEFT WING!"

[@youmaus]

I think the 20mm holes having being flared in both directions is the result of the pilot attempting dodging evasion when he got an interceptor on his tail, resulting in the rudder getting hit from both sides in the same burst of fire.

[@HATECELL]

Maybe it was shot down by a Frenchman on behalf of the Swiss. After all the Swiss Air Force doesn't work on weekends XD