12th Century Norman Fashion - Online Class!

[@К.П-к6щ]

Timestamps: 4:14 start of presentation 4:36 map of Normandy 6:15 extant garments 6:30 alb of St. Thomas Becket 7:57 undertunic of St. Thomas Becket 9:39 alb of St. Bernard/Bernulf (Book mention: The Art of Manipulating Fabric by Colette Wolf, pages 144-147) 11:25 coronation tunicella for King Roger II of Sicily 13:23 Robe of King Wilhelm II of Sicily and later Frederick II of Sicily 15:30 Moselund Gown 16:14 Kragelund Tunic 16:36 two dalmaticas 17:37 tunic of Don Garcia Alfonsez de Borgoña 18:23 extant accessories 18:29 coronation mantle of Roger II of Sicily 18:37 St. Thomas Becket's mantle 18:50 early 13th century 19:01 pieces of headwear 20:06 pouch/purse and King Roger of Sicily's coronation glove 20:34 stockings 21:45 sock and shoe 22:17 cingulum of King Wilhelm II of Sicily 23:24 extant 3D art 23:38 Chartres Cathedral (more specific at 24:09) 32:38 Angers Cathedral 34:40 Haloed Queen (also"Slim Princess") 35:47 debated statue 36:49 effigy of Queen Berengavia of Navarre 37:16 water, fire, earth, air Mosan sculptures 38:00 Virgin and Child 39:03 two enamel plaques (briefly 1:16:35) 42:31 building your kit (basics) 46:55 undertunic 47:38 tunics with hoods 48:18 tunics with slits 51:54 dalmatica (and briefly 49:35) 52:57 bliaut 54:59 belt/girdie/cinture/ceinture and cingulum 56:00 shoes and boots 57:39 cloaks/mantles 59:27 men's clothing 1:00:13 braies 1:02:01 chausses/hoses (briefly 1:07:12 - 1:07:55) 1:03:24 cowl 1:05:52 hats/headwear 1:09:35 coif 1:10:35 hairstyles and facial hair 1:12:31 women's specific clothing 1:13:00 headwear 1:14:32 hairstyles 1:16:08 extant textiles (party sideline 1:16:35 - 1:17:23) 1:23:46 jewelry 1:25:14 Sicilian Normandy website 1:27:59 bliaut website 1:29:19 medieval reenactment group's website 1:30:23 hrafnheim website 1:31:28 manuscripts 1:32:00 questions

[@HarpyandHag]

Спасибо большое, Калина!

[@FinnLongman]

Thank you -- as a writer working on a project set during this approximate period, this was incredibly useful!

[@vonbalt4891]

This is amazing! so much historical information about the smallest of details that are so hard to find googling around

[@HarpyandHag]

Thank you so much! The 12th Century is a fascinating century in terms of fashion, with lots of neat and interesting things! It's the smallest details that really rounds things out, in my opinion.

[@_Uhtcaru]

Wow! I've just joined my local 12th c. reenactment group and wanted to research what sort of clothes I can wear and this video is perfect! Very informative and comprehensive thanks for sharing!

[@terrysmith4831]

What 12th century reenactment group did you join, if I may ask?

[@angelicadinovalipa7739]

Thank you for recording your class and sharing your resources!

[@HarpyandHag]

Thank you for watching and stopping by! Be sure to subscribe as there are many more classes coming!

[@evamuhlhause]

This is hugely instructive, thank you so much for all that research.

[@HarpyandHag]

Thank you so much! I'm glad it was helpful!!! Stick around, as I'll be doing more content like this - related to Ducal Normandy and other Medieval topics!

[@evamuhlhause]

@@HarpyandHag I will, I've subscribed now.

[@HarpyandHag]

@@evamuhlhause Awesome! See you 'round!

[@krisluthy]

This is a stellar class. Fantastic presentation.

[@krisluthy]

Do you have more information on dalmatica in the 12th century?

[@HarpyandHag]

What exactly are you looking to learn?

[@marcellacruser951]

Thanks so much for a really informative session. I'm sewing a wardrobe for someone developing her first persona and this both gave us quite a few ideas and lots to think about.

[@EnchantadoreaPlumaDelDragon]

This was a super interesting class and much more in depth than my university Costume design course I took as an elective when in Uni. A super class!!! I am excited to see ifn I can put together a 12th Century Norman soft kit. Thanks so much.

[@samseaman6181]

Thank you so much for this class! I'm looking into Sicilo-Norman fashions for my very first persona and this was an amazing resource!

[@HarpyandHag]

So glad to hear it! Be sure to subscribe and stay in touch! We'll be producing new and relevant content soon!

[@Kartsie]

This was awesome! Thank you for the detailed lecture on the 12th century! 💜💜💜💜💜

[@HarpyandHag]

Thank you for watching! Be sure to subscribe for more awesome content soon!

[@ladysoapmaker]

Finally got around to watching this. My persona has always been Norman/English and I've finally getting around to making garb that matches

[@HarpyandHag]

Can't wait to see your new pieces!

[@drungarious]

Regarding braies, a fellow named J. Morgan Kuberry taught a class at Pennsic on his interpretation of braies. He thinks they were essentially a form of wrap pants; a single piece of fabric secured in the back and pulled through the front. He later wrote up an article in Renaissance Magazine (issue #106, if you're curious). I've tried his method and it really does seem to replicate all the peculiarities we see in manuscripts: the rolled top, the slits in the legs, etc. It's also more secure, and waaaay more comfortable.

[@HarpyandHag]

AWESOME! I look him up and see what he can share! Is that his mundane or SCA name? Any idea which kingdom he was out of?

[@drungarious]

@@HarpyandHag That's his mundane name. I think he was out of East Kingdom? Hardcore crusader persona, I remember that much.

[@HarpyandHag]

@@drungarious I will seek him out!

[@MichaelRainey]

Fellow medieval youtuber Roland Warzecka also presents this in a video that "braies" were a square of fabric in a belt and did not look anything like the modern boxer-briefs everyone keeps making.

[@lupakajsalisa3652]

1:01:49 I know why! There are other clearer depictions of medieval field workers in long rolled up braies where you can tell that rather than a slit, it's a cord hiking up the rolled up pant hem attaching to the waistband

[@gremlinchet]

If we email you, can we still get a copy of your manuscript document? This was a great resources, thank you! I

[@HarpyandHag]

Yes, please email me and I'll get it to you!

[@motokokusanagi1172]

How much can we be sure about colouring in this period? What were the most popular clothes colours during High Medieval period?

[@HarpyandHag]

We know that bright, primary colors were most commonly used, when garments were dyed. Red (madder), yellow (weld), and blue (woad) being most popular; secondarily (an olive) green was sometimes seen (weld/yellow, overlaid with woad/blue), orange shades (also resulting from madder, sometimes with other mordants or with weld/yellow) and various shades of blue-green could result from dye baths in this area of the world during this time period. NOT COMMON: black, brown, royal purple or bright kelly green). Natural undyed colors of varying shades of white to creme to a light tan color were also commonly depicted and verifiable through extant garments.

[@ceannRuadh]

Curious about women's unstyled hair. It's intetesting that the left figure in the righthand picture is labelled "Phrygia ancilla," or "Phrygian slave/serving woman." Does this have significant bearing on her hairstyle? What source is this picture from? Anyway, thanks for all the great info!

[@robynspencer4534]

Shoes - there are several extant English 12th century shoes detailed in "Shoes and Patterns", published by the Museum of London.

[@vmwp799]

Fabulous. Thank you.

[@HarpyandHag]

Thank you for watching and subscribing!

[@anthonymartino9917]

Another interesting aspect is the exaggerated length of fingers. This was also true in many 15c paintings like Van Eyck etc. As an artist myself. I think there was some symbolic reasons for this over exaggeration. For instance the Hodegetria or "Showing the Way" aspect in symbolism etc.

[@lumikkihusu7259]

The split pant legs at 1:00:30 - Could this be to allow them to be rolled higher in order to not get wet? The figure is shown doing something that could involve fishing or something else to do with water. Of course he would need to pin them up to prevent unrolling as he moves.

[@HarpyandHag]

I dunno...I've rolled up pant legs and shirt arms before (without any splits), with no problems. It's an interesting theory though!

[@MayYourGodGoWithYou]

I do Norman although I don't wear the exaggerated wide sleeves of the overtunics/bliaut as they don't work when cooking, especially over open fires. I am interested in the Dalmatia and whether it was worn by women. I find the styles practical as well as comfortable. Thank you for an excellent presentation, much appreciated. An SCA member in Ireland.

[@HarpyandHag]

I have not yet found the dalmatica on women in manuscripts, though I can't rule it out. Note that slimmer sleeves were much more what the every day woman was wearing for the practicality functions that you mentioned!

[@MayYourGodGoWithYou]

@@HarpyandHag Thank you. I had wondered about the Dalmatia as I haven't seen it in manuscripts but I am also no very good when it comes to hunting for information on the internet, I prefer my local library which, obviously, isn't an option presently. The person who has visited my local SCA for event wears one but she also has a Byzantine persona and I suspect she borrows it from that, when sked she can't/won't give sources. Although there are many videos on KZbin in which the basic garment they make is dalmatica in style, and again no specific sources are ever given. I do find it difficult to tell from images on the internet whether the sleeves on Norman garb are part of the body, T tunic style, or separate and sewn in as in later styles. I also have found lots of images where the bliaut is shorter than the under dress showing off the under dress, but also an equal number where both are the same length. Were shorter over dresses, with 3/4 sleeves that are wide,but not draped almost to the floor wide, worn or are they mainly shown in imaginary images rather than factual images. I admit to really liking the look of the shorter overdress with 3/4 straight sleeves but am hesitant to make one simply because of the uncertainty. I must also admit to being a "history bounding" fan, except in my case I prefer to wear my SCA garb in daily wear and much as I would like to add shorter over dresses with 3/4 sleeves, unless they are authentic and not just a style in books from a century or so ago I can't, in all conscience, make and wear them. Thank you for the class, it was very interesting and informative, though I'm SCA in Dragenwald.

[@ElinT13]

I hate to dissapoint you, but the Chartres Cathedral door figures are not showing "real" dress. At that time the craftsmen had stylised ways to display clothing (for example the pleats, they do not represent real pleats, but the fact that the stone was worked with all possible intricacy) and had more to do with craftmanship (like: how many fine patterns can we pack onto a surface?) than with showing real life. I studied medieval cathredrals ...

[@katdee239]

Did those statues have paint on them originally?

[@HarpyandHag]

Great question! Some did, but for the most part, most did not.

[@MsBlueHand]

It is not true that the COLOR purple was reserved for Royals by sumptuary laws. Royal purple is Tyrean purple. Tyrean purple can range from fuschia to dark red to reddish purple. Orchil ( a lichen dye) makes purple as does alkanet. You can also achieve purple by dying something red and then dipping it in indigo or woad until it is the shade of purple that you want. None or this would be reserved as "royal purple".

[@HarpyandHag]

When/where do I claim that or talk about Sumptuary Laws?

[@maryhardcastle5362]

Missed things in my own look ups research so to not lose who taught ones in mine own line .. old world mostly yah! Fest!? Not I any familiar with coz- play.. nope hi ya? A mason?

[@josephnebeker7976]

I can't even go into a history video without hearing about inclusiveness and identifying as the wrong gender.. What a shame.

[@HarpyandHag]

You clearly need to do more research into history then, since the notions of genders are constantly changing throughout history and by culture.

[@josephnebeker7976]

@@HarpyandHag You'd be surprised. But that's not my issue. You're actually apologizing for using hinchey in male and female without knowing or being able to give the self-identification of people when it's very obvious that they are man or woman. when you post your video as a history class about medieval fashion, just give a history lesson about fashion.

[@HarpyandHag]

@@josephnebeker7976 I fail to see how me saying, "Normandy France in the 12th century recognized a bigendered culture. Here's what was traditionally male and here's what was traditionally female but wear what you want," is bothersome to you in the least. How does this harm you or impact you? If it's not applicable, what do you care?

[@josephnebeker7976]

@@HarpyandHag it doesn't harm me, but it does impact and potentially hard young impressionable children who have easy access to KZbin I don't want indoctrinated by your garbage. When they hear this stuff I need to explain about gender dysphoria. Ok. But you people keep spreading this stuff everywhere it doesn't belong. If you want to talk about people self-identifying as the wrong gender (yes, I know that's not what this video is about, but you were still talking about it), please make a video with that title. Better yet, learn about gender dysphoria yourself and maybe you'll stop kowtowing to the sickness. When you're making a video about historical medieval fashion, please do that. What you said wouldn't bother me so much except my kids can get to this crap and all they want is to learn about medieval fashion. Can I be more plain?

[@biteursknbiteurskn]

@@HarpyandHag tbh im a transfem enby (from Channel Islands, what was Normandy too!) and it felt a bit on the nose, i'd jus go "yea Normans used ya traditional male and female roles so I'll be using those terms but obviously nowadays switching it up fucks" and leave it at that

[@Kinotaurus]

Oh God... even in a video on mediaeval clothing content creators now feel obliged to pay obeisance to the current ideological madness...

[@HarpyandHag]

Your ignorance of the history of genders and clear bigotry is not one I'm interested in engaging.

[@bellatordei3440]

​​@@HarpyandHagYou're not interested because your lies would plum like a cauliflower

[@millieil6510]

While this presentation was interesting in terms of discussing garments, the historical comments are downright shocking and ignorant. Why does the fact ladies are not wearing wimples and headscarves appeal to you more? Do you feel it’s limiting to women’s “liberation”? The truth is braids and head coverings are worn because these people lived mostly outdoors. Braiding and head coverings and hats are popular because they keep your hair clean and help regulate temperature in days before climate control and urban development. Considering, bathing was a laborious task, and most people didn’t bathe daily (and it’s not true that they NEVER bathed), washing long hair is even more of a chore. Women wore dresses and men wore chausses not out of some kind of inequality. Women squat to urinate, and men can do so standing. Considering there are no enclosed bathrooms or bathrooms period (except the odd garderobe), a woman wearing pants/chausses would require her to expose her private areas to relieve herself, where a skirt will permit her to remain covered while doing so. Also, another disturbing comment was regarding the wardrobes of wealthier women being extravagant and precluding work. Are you insinuating wealthy women didn’t work? Perhaps they didn’t do physical labor, but I promise you, managing an estate and dozens of servants is no small task. That women’s work was mostly domestic (prior to the advent of Feminist theory that women’s work is undervalued unless it’s performed outside of the home in direct competition to men’s work), does not preclude its importance. But this again feeds into your trying to insert post-modern, trans and gender ideology into the past as something horrendous that we’ve “evolved” from. You cannot even discuss religious vestments without somehow casting dispersions on them as cretinous people and that you would never force religion on your viewers and have limited religious depictions of an age steeped in deep religiosity. If neither you nor your viewership can handle these facts, then you need to explore a different time period.

[@tomatobird1307]

Looks like someone of no consequence was butthurt

[@millieil6510]

@@tomatobird1307 really, you don't have to be so hard on yourself

[@marcellacruser951]

Your religious rightedness is hanging out. You might want to tuck that ugly crap in. She simply stated that she wasn't covering it several times, and left it at that. I'm sure you can do the work and find that information for yourself. Go ahead and give a class of your own. See if someone... anyone wants to listen to you.

[@RandallPinkXL]

TL;DR - ignorant person crying about gender.

[@terrysmith4831]

My thoughts exactly. I find it odd and sad that woke idology worms it's way into scholarship of the ancient world where it has no place or value.

[@bellatordei3440]

Wtf means "traditionally identified as male" and "traditionally identified as female" 🤣🤣🤣😅