13.7" to 16" : The Best Barrel Length?

[@KitBadger]

You can find links to everything here : kitbadger.com/13-7-to-16-the-best-barrel-length/ Get your questions answered here : www.patreon.com/c/KitBadger

[@fmyles3]

"Everything is a trade-off, the end". The end. Period. Hard Stop. Right on. 100%. Now I'll watch the rest of the video.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

20" barrel gang. ALL the velocity, we don't do CQB. That's what fire is for (in Minecraft there's rarely any point in fighting indoors, just remove the building).

[@mtnbound2764]

thats minecraft though.... not you know, reality.

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

@mtnbound2764 you totally misunderstood

[@markrichards7452]

What if you can't avoid it

[@mtnbound2764]

@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 so..what was your point then?

[@StephenRWilliams]

@@mtnbound2764 "minecraft" is a codeword used to avoid censorship on social media. it's like how "unalive" means dead or kill.

[@joquin4618]

Love my 18” criterion core barrel!!! I was getting 2800 + FPS from 77gr ammo AAC for about $0.62 cents per round 😊

[@VBMichael_D]

Similar. I've a built MK12 SPR clone. You can find 75 grain 5.56 rounds for a little bit less as well.

[@SVTBansheeman]

I keep hearing about criterion barrels. Always good results. I plan to sbr my Daniel defense rifle but do a Criterion if I buy another.

[@jlew6890]

Criterion is the way

[@shojus]

I was always told 4.5" was the perfect size!

[@KitBadger]

Bless her heart...

[@christoperdevore3617]

@@KitBadger😂

[@nwordpass80]

That's average

[@alvinfry]

Barrel thickness and personality are all you need.

[@alaskadrifter]

4.5” works great for 44 mag!

[@GR1MKA1]

Answer "The barrel length you have, is the best barrel length."

[@dexterous187]

Love this kind of content. I just bought every color springco spring and all the different buffer weights and some rifle length tubes to see how it affects recoil.

[@scherry9198]

Gotta video?

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

Springco green spring is all you need.

[@Clutch_Kick187]

There is a fine line of reducing rearward force yet you have a stronger forward pull while the bolt is returning forward harder.. you also don't want to get it too light, as the rifle will need that extra juice to chamber rounds when the rifle gets some serious fouling..

[@kanejakejimmy]

Wow! This was a lot of work and a lot of money. Thanks.

[@almostontimehero5415]

I have researched this topic too. Basically, barrel length doesnt matter until it does, usually at 300yards you start to see short barrels just tank. 14"-16" is the best barrel length on paper. User preferences & comfort over take ballistics performances for what matters.

[@scubasteve743]

16 with small suppressor, velocity is king with 556 so it’s up to you how much you want to compromise

[@JKaz-kj3kg]

@kitbadger you get me with the music at the beginning of your videos Everytime. Im always like what is that who I think it is.

[@DonJohn-h8l]

Don't sleep on exceeding the elastic limits of soft tissue @ 1800-2200 fps. Temp wound cavity becomes permanent damage.

[@AA-yx2kf]

Nothing wrong with a 16in barrel. I think it's a great choice still. With that said, if you can own a silencer. I would go pin/welded 14.5. But I would argue if you can own a silencer. Then go 20in!

[@kippnovak9833]

Thanks for arguing nothing...

[@AA-yx2kf]

​@kippnovak9833 Well thanks for pointing that out......

[@dpchief_216]

Dude… I was thinking this same question a few days ago…. The algorithm is getting downright scary at this point! Ok, I mean it was ALREADY scary…. But this is another level!

[@RolandtheThompsonGunner]

That's because your device can literally read your thoughts. Anything with an LCD screen can pick up vibrational frequencies from us and turn that signal into code. They can also transmit a frequency to us changing our, emotions, behavior, and/or thoughts. The scary part is that this technology is not as new as you may think. If you are interested here are some patents you can read about how these work.: US6017302A US6506148B2 US4877027A US5159703A US20030171688A1 and there are more. Basically your phone and other devices can be sent a frequency that your skin feels, then sends that signal to the brain, where the brain translates the signal into words. You can buy devices now which do exactly that. People advertise them for brainwashing yourself with subliminal positive affirmations.

[@Sirikid]

You also need to factor in powders. For example the 5,45 7N6 is optimized for 415mm (16,3") long barrels and uses faster powder than the 5,56 M193, which is optimized for 20" barrels.

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

Yes - great comment!

[@TerminalM193]

Is there any sources out there that indicate what powder is being used with a multitude of different factory loaded cartridges? I'm in the process of finally setting up a reloading bench but still have a TON to learn before I start pulling levers.

[@Sirikid]

@@TerminalM193 you will not get useful information from this knowledge from a reloading PoV. Develop your loads in QL/GRT, measure real velocities you get and you'll be fine. Reloading isn't hard, just expensive)

[@jeffhuntley2921]

15:15 you move your arms like C-3PO in Star Wars when he’s talking:) great video. Thanks for putting all the drop charts together for a quick screenshot

[@BigDrum]

Living in IL, I'm not cool enough to get an AR for the time being, let alone an SBR. In my military career, I've never shot a rifle shorter than 14.5". One day 🙏

[@ssniadach012]

Great information and Terrific video, Thank you for your work and sharing 😊

[@WinningDeadlyEncounters]

Good video Ivan.

[@declineofthewest.]

Ivan with another banger. Keep up the great work, sir.

[@hmongvaj08]

I really like the 13.7. It’s that sweet spot length.

[@nosyarg1997]

Standard deviation on the AAC open tip "match" is almost double winchester XM193 is crazy. AAC needs to QC those powder charges and seating depth. Dang that's bad.

[@TerminalM193]

This is exactly why I stay far far away from that junk. I don't mind spending more for heavy for caliber performance cartridges, " BH MK262 / IMI MOD1". Same goes for training ammunition. If it's not IMI M193 / Federal XM193 / PPU M193 then I don't want it.

[@bmrz38]

Ever heard of a bad batch. It’s not unique to any particular manufacturer. Assuming you shoot on occasion. …keyboard commander I assume?

[@TerminalM193]

@@bmrz38 I've given AAC far too many chances now just for reasoning to be a bad batch or two. Ran into poor crimping twice with 308, had wild SD's and accuracy issues with multiple 5.56 cartridges. The only AAC that's worked as advertised has been their 300blk subs & simple 9mm ball..... I've yet to have any bad lots from IMI / BH / PPU when it comes to 5.56 / 308. Sure some lots will group bigger / smaller than the next but all the SD are within accepted ranges.... When it comes to 9mm I've stuck with 124g S&B and 124g Federal AE. Full power loads that feed in everything I put them through.... I've yet to have any lots of gold dot / hst over the past 8 years that didn't behave identical from earliest lot to latest.

[@C_oprator89]

Excellent dang video

[@julietlima5564]

16inch pipe with the 64grain Federal LE bonded tip seems to be the best all around performance.

[@tiiiimmmmmm]

One thing to keep in mind with the 13.7 and deadair can, even though overall length is shorter than the other setups w/ the plan-b, the deadair has a lot less actual baffle volume because its got that chunky attachment mechanism and also accounting for the initial expansion chamber the nox goes into. I would wager the plan-b setup would have noticeably better suppression.

[@celmer6]

I've been rocking the AR-15 for 35 years now and have 20", 18", 16", 14½" pinned and welded and 11½" pinned and welded XM-177E2. For general use 20" is dandy. For CQB 16" is the best balance of Terminal Performance and mobility in and around vehicles and structures. And 18" for those times when you need to do SPR Precision stuff.

[@ssniadach012]

BCM 14.5 BFH Barrel, MK2of course

[@mtnbound2764]

its 100% my opinion based on my ( relatively limited) experience, but i love me a nice 14.5" P/w. currently my go to carbine is a 14.5" BA hanson .625 profile on aero receivers. super handy, but not as light as a pencil barrel so it doesnt overheat too quick

[@kevinelliott9679]

I really enjoyed the video. Definitely. Would have also liked a single picture, showing all the barrel lengths, and the distance at which they dropped below 2700 feet per second with xm 193.

[@brazzy1467]

I have one 13.7" Noveske stainless steel barrel for precision work and that's using an SBa4 brace. My other uppers are either 12.5" chf chrome lined or criterion 20" hbar chf chrome lined. I also don't pin and weld anything if it's under 16" it gets an arm brace. My favorite AR-10 barrel length is my 13.7" 308 Noveske barrel with headspaced bolt. For what I need it for it's small compact and hits hard. It's great for hunting hogs and deer in thick brush. Just my opinion

[@32Thomasthetrain]

I got a bazooka green 13.7 SS barrel Noveske N4 upper and the muzzle velocity and accuracy is unbelievable

[@Turtl-ss4lj]

Incredibly valuable info. Thanks for putting this out!

[@jasonhilliker2266]

It's also a good way to get three free uppers, well played sir

[@crazyhorse705]

5.56 Nato 75 gr InterLock HD SBR Hornady Black is designed specifically for 10.5"-11.5" SBR’s by using proprietary propellant technology and a bullet designed with technology from industry leading Critical Duty FlexLock bullets. This round provides exceptional ammunition performance in SBR’s suppressed or unsuppressed, with virtually no flash or residue, dramatically reduced sound signature, will not foul or overheat suppressors, uniform velocity and accuracy, and provides controllable rate of fire in automatic platforms. Designed to meet the requirements of the FBI protocol, this round is the optimum choice for 10.5"-11.5" barreled 5.56 rifles.

[@apexaustriae9973]

16" is the best compromise between bullet speed plus terminal performance and flexibility I think.

[@roncterry]

I had the same bout of curiosity and have a similar set of uppers (13.7”+NOX, 14.5”+Rearden R2C, 16”+Rearden R2S). I tested with the same suppressor switching between Keymo and Plan B mounts. The conclusion I came to was that 14.5”+R2C was the sweet spot when considering only the 2 factors of length/weight because the Plan B suppressor mount was over 4oz lighter than the Keymo mount and the velocity was better. I figured that why not save weight at the end of the gun where it really matters and gain velocity if the overall package is the same length. Having said that my overall choice is the 16”+R2S because it only adds about 1.5” to the length and about 1 oz in weight but gains a significant amount of velocity making it the sweet spot when considering the 3 factors of length/weight/velocity.

[@KevinMc7-s8o]

The best barrel length isn't determined by velocity as the difference in a few inches isn't drastic.... it's what length and configuration best fits your specific purpose it's modular for a reason ....add on or deduct what you need to meet the mission .....

[@DanDannyDanielleBob]

The last video i watched like this indicated that 12.5 was the point of diminishing marginal returns where added length got you more but at a decreasing gain and so was the most 'efficient' and that 18" got you basically all if the juice out of almost all rounds tested and so was 'optimal.' solving for 16" legality is a different question. I think you start with the supressor you want and look for the combo compatible muzzle device and available barrel length that gets you there reliably. Good to note though, that a lot of optic reticles are tuned for 14.5 m4s, and 14.5 is readily available from manufacturers and is good to go for most supressor mount patterns. These niche lengths seem kind of a fad as the supressor market converges to hub mounts with a preference for rearden / plan b ecosystem with some hold outs like surefire and hux

[@Pompomgrenade]

It's interesting how you have laid out my favorite kind of $cience.. Thank you Mr. Kit badger🎉

[@maryspeight2840]

Very well done sir !! Thank you for posting this . Cheers . Stay safe . Guy Speight

[@protectpersevere2030]

Got a 13.7 pw for my Sandman can but honestly would rather have a 16in with a direct thread 4in can. More velocity and probably lighter lol

[@sermike16]

I personally enjoy my ballistic advantage 13.9 barrel. With a suppressor its well balanced and performs great.

[@evanacey1414]

12.5” middy FTW!!

[@killacamfoo]

12.5

[@JG-gw5cc]

My rifle is 14.7 with a 1.7 mid length Hanson profile from Ballistic Advantage, pinned and welded with dead air keymo flash hinder in a bcm upper receiver. My shorty is a 10.5 with 1.8 carbine Faxon socom both are zeroed with Frontier 75 grain bthp.

[@ronaldebrownjr5622]

Thanks for this! Great job!

[@peanut2220]

Always best music

[@Pompomgrenade]

😮 the 16-in seems to contain flash quite well 🤙

[@j.rashid8257]

I just feel a 16" gives you the best of both cqb and velocity between a 14" and 20". If you are primarily going to be a cqb platform use an 11" suppressed or move into a 300 blackout.

[@mrshort2379]

Awesome and very valuable information. I have actually been looking for a comparison on barrel length ballistics from a respected & reputable source. the only thing is I wish you would have used a 13.9" . however I have been wondering, that with the modern advancements in barrel designs, is the barrel length, to weight ratio, was even a factor anymore. for weight transfer, off the nose, and light weight builds.

[@samadams9557]

20” is the best barrel length if you want a 5.56 to do what it was intended to do. You won’t be doing CQB in SHTF or you won’t live very long.

[@Clockwork0nions]

Depends on the load. Loads optimized with shorter barrels in mind can get some really good velocities out of shorter barrels.

[@WhatAboutTheIndividual]

Faster than a 20”?

[@Clockwork0nions]

@@WhatAboutTheIndividual I’ve seen some loads that are 3k FPS out of a 14.5 barrel.

[@samadams9557]

@@Clockwork0nions within specified maximum pressures? These off the shelf rounds? Not advertised, but actual chronograph verification? I’m finding that really hard to believe. 3200 fps out of a 20” is typically only achieved at 55gr. actual m193.

[@Clockwork0nions]

@@samadams9557 Recoil has an article titled “Best Ammo For Short Barreled 5.56 NATO [2023]” wherein the 62gr Barnes VOR-TX was cooking at ~2,700 FPS out of a 10.3’ DD MK18. If you do the math that would be roughly 3,000 FPS out of a 14.5, given you normally gain about ~300 FPS going from ~10.3 inch barrels to 14.5 ones.

[@TRNCHWRF4R]

Personally 10.3 11.5 14.5 16 are the best with cans

[@phoenixnfa]

Here is the story behind 13.7" barrels. Weapon Outfitters was in the same building as BE Meyers back in the day. BEM made the M249F flash hider. Someone from WO decided to see what the shortest barrel p/w with the M249F would be to still be a 16" barrel. Turns out it was 13.7" No special SOCOM contract. NO DOD request. Literally two parts smashed together and a bit of basic math.

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

A P&W barrel length should be matched to the muzzle device, simple as. Dont start with a 13.7 and then hunt down the device, find the device and then hunt down the barrel. The end result of a 13.7 or 13.9 or 14.5 is still 16 over-all.

[@petesheppard1709]

In the world of SBR infringement, the only reasons I see for the shorter barrels (P&W to 16" OAL) are 'want' and 'fun'--which are perfectly acceptable reasons 😎, since bullet performance goes downhill as the barrels get shorter. Go SBR or pistol, and the increased handiness of the shorter barrels makes them practical.

[@weeznaz8195]

If I were in the market, I would do a 20 inch bullpup.

[@RolandtheThompsonGunner]

Bullpups are a dying fad. Several military forces in the world who where issuing bullpups, has or is in the process of switching or to M4s.

[@frankopanklaric]

If I already didn't have a 16 inch hellion I would get the 20 inch variant.

[@apexaustriae9973]

Steyr already got you covered on this one. Terrible trigger though.

[@weeznaz8195]

@@RolandtheThompsonGunner Europe allowed their weapons manufacturing capabilities wither and are just looking for what's already on someone's' shelves. That's AR esc designs unfortunately. Israel, a country that has consistent combat in urban areas, picks bullpups for their ability to deliver excellent ballistics in a small package. Seeing as their more of an active combat zone I give more weight to their decision since they invested in their manufacturing capabilities and this is what they chose.

[@brendanmoore9283]

@@apexaustriae9973steyr sells different springs that completely change how the trigger feels. Arid makes a trigger that you can adjust to remove the overtravel.

[@pescad0]

Cool to see the 75gr stuff is still horrendous, I got about a 116 ES today lol

[@bigc7710]

I’d like to know the groupings with each upper.

[@jameskiser7791]

I’d like to see the same data for 18 and 20 inch barrels

[@jwhiskey534]

16 inch gang, It's funny how the USMC traded in their 20 inch M16's for 14.5 inch M4's, only to go now to 16.5 inch M27's w/ KAC suppressors.

[@sorryociffer]

Personally, just go 16 inch and forget about it… never understood the whole point of buying a shorter barrel only to add specific difficult to remove multiple devices to bring it back to 16 inches also that you can have a package that is 1/2 to 1 inch shorter overall with less muzzle, velocity, and less muzzle options. Let’s not pretend that having a rifle that is half an inch to an inch longer than the pin weld is set up Is going to have any noticeable difference in the real world. That’s just a psychological mind game that people use justify enjoy the better ballistics enjoy the fact you will have more options for changing down the road.

[@derek3154]

Hopefully barrel length will be a thing of the past soon💯. To me that -2 to -3” really makes a difference in storing and handling. Love the 13.7” P & W. I don’t shoot past 100yards and if I did I have other rifles for that.

[@taylormartin4346]

This ^

[@sorryociffer]

@@derek3154 but that’s the thing you’re not saving 2 to 3 inch you’re taking the shorter barrel and then adding 2 to 3 inches to it all in order to save less than an inch from a 16 inch gun

[@derek3154]

@ no, muzzle devices make it exactly 16” instead of 16” barrel + 1-3” of muzzle device. 13.7” with SOLGW NoX makes a 13.7” pin n weld exactly 16”.

[@sorryociffer]

@@derek3154 i’m aware that it won’t be exactly 16 inches but only a small portion of the actual muzzle device will actually extend beyond the muzzle so you only add maybe an inch or so. I can’t listen to anyone with a straight face who tells me that that one inch or so is going to make a noticeable differencein 99.999% of their use of that rifle. They aren’t exfiltrating from an APC or an up armored suburban or doing close quarters battle spend spending $6000 for night Vision literally makes more sense than owning a pin and welded rifle.

[@erikmcclure912]

Thank you for spending your time and finances on this test. Not to put too fine a point on it but could you please tell us at what altitude and temperature was this test done. I live 400 feet above sea level and winter temps here are 38 to 45 degrees.

[@TwoWheelNinja]

No 14.5”? I’ve never even heard of 14.75” and 15” being a thing 😅

[@johnqpublic2718]

14.75" as opposed to 14.5" is so that you can pin and weld a standard sized flash hider/muzzle device and with most of them, get to 16". For example, with a 14.75", you can p&w a standard A2 flash hider and get to 16". With a 14.5", you have to use an "extended" A2 flash hider. This isn't an issue, unless you want to mount any suppressors to it. You're already limited to certain A2 adapters with which to mount cans, and even more limited if you're mounting to an extended A2.

[@TerminalM193]

I have two different FN uppers that are both pin/welds that are 14.7" uppers.

[@mrgman1326]

Why didn’t you do this with 62 grain M855, the most common 5.56 cartridge in the US?

[@CrashingPotatoEngineer]

For me it's gotta be 20 inches. Each to one's own.

[@geebanger68]

I like 16 inch for a rifle

[@mylesrickbeil1493]

In the flash hider test, the shots with no flash at all, is that full supression or is that the 60fps missing the flash completely?

[@SHOTRED555]

Kit no 12.5 love ?

[@1982rrose]

Velocity, range those are things, within the linitations of barrel length is there a difference in their acurracy? It used to be said the 12.5 was the most accurate of the Noveski's.

[@thecocooreo]

10.3 Master Race!

[@slaughtersenpai1951]

these are basically all the same barrel lengths you might as well just get a 14.5. if you want any real differences 12.5 is likely the best compromise however you cant skirt around sbr regulation if you care about that.

[@michaeljames6560]

We all know 11.5” is KING but thanks for the video .

[@mtnbound2764]

BRRR wrong. that is a neat opinion though

[@hopewilliams6705]

​@@mtnbound2764My 11.5 is my absolute favorite!

[@not_your_business666]

Facts!

[@triphammer1203]

Cool urban opinion. Touch some grass

[@scherry9198]

You misspelled, that should be 10.5 😉

[@mattkennedy9732]

What gloves are those please?

[@nicholasemerson9852]

Under the red hot moon

[@Skidjit]

Take a bus downtown to the graveyard shift tonight

[@aaronmcelrea8172]

20” barrel with rifle length gas system

[@0v417]

11.5” for most builds and 16” for GPR… all you’ll ever need. maybe 20” for civilian IAR build or SPR

[@mizaqenyad4269]

Damn crazy how this video is 27mins long and it only takes 3 seconds to say "20 inch barrel" lmao

[@Pompomgrenade]

😅 designed for coyotes try the 40-grain varmint grenades... They break apart on a blood of grass and Don't ricochet

[@rmenard1986]

14.5 or 20 🎉

[@flawseeingeye]

the answer is 12.5.

[@etizzle915]

If your oal is the same then i don't understand why anyone would want a shorter barrel as they're giving away velocity for nothing gained except a few less ounces of weight

[@etizzle915]

@scherry9198 but the oal is the same.

[@martialbushcraft]

20

[@cw7legionofpewrights596]

20” to 13.7” maybeeee

[@mariocarretto6109]

The biggest benefit I didn’t see touched on is balance. A fully built out 16” rifle with a can pushed out doesn’t handle nearly as well as a 13.7 built out and the same weight. The forward weight is really noticeable on the range.

[@celmer6]

16" and 13.7" are not the same weight. The 16" is better for 5.56x45 NATO because the higher velocity produces better wound ballistics than 13.7".

[@mariocarretto6109]

@ im referencing to a fully built out riffle with accessories etc. being the same weight.. im not claiming the 13.7 and 16” from the video are the same. 24” is going to out perform 16”, im not focused solely on the ballistic performance in my comment like you are.

[@suteki恋人]

no 11.5? kac cqb sbr gang right here

[@Lazybump]

20 inch barrel is the best barrel. Always has been, always will be.

[@adamb2619]

20"

[@justanothergunnerd8128]

Anything less than 16" on an AR with velocity dependent 5.56 is kind of dumb, unless operating in a very tight CQB or other unique environment. The debate over anything smaller than 16" is a waste of time.

[@DocMitchell69]

It’s really not a waste. I have a shoulder/muscle injury from the service and a govt profile 16in just isn’t viable for me anymore. I need to take any advantage I can get, especially if it’ll help balance the rifle out and make it less front heavy.

[@ericj6636]

​@DocMitchell69 what about an ultralight upper.. something like a Faxon pencil barrel with carbon fiber handguard. I'd think the weight would be more important than the length for you, no?

[@garrettboone4306]

lol the last 20 years of war fighters would probably disagree. *coughs in MK262*

[@SamSung-jn5fi]

18inch barrel. We aren't kicking doors.

[@heatheruntz5315]

Nah, 20 is the way to go.

[@SamSung-jn5fi]

@heatheruntz5315 based

[@not_your_business666]

The problem with 13.7 you are most likely will be stuck with keymo, which is an absolute garbage. 14.5 guves you more options.

[@Cgonz1982]

Liberty precision makes a plan b MD that will work for 13.7/13.9

[@not_your_business666]

@@Cgonz1982 I absolutely love their products, but this specific muzzle device effectively adds the barrel length, so you are basically getting 14.5 with 13.7 velocity.

[@Cgonz1982]

@@not_your_business666 the velocities differences are negligible.

[@not_your_business666]

@Cgonz1982 but it doesn't change the fact that this configuration completely defeats the purpose of 13.7. You are not saving any weight or length.

[@Cgonz1982]

@ you’ll shave weight not having to use keymo

[@randyreviewsit]

11.5 and 12.5 mid gas gang

[@thomashansen9390]

40fps SD in that AAC ammo. That’s junk

[@BrooklynNick718]

10.3 master race

[@Pompomgrenade]

Blade or blood speech to text obliterates any meaning in communications....🍝

[@ElTejon47901]

Stop LARPing, get a Colt 6920 and move on.

[@RedRaider1803]

Lmao you’re a clown

[@rrr3r2]

That sounds like something a fudd would say. You shoot a 1911 too?

[@zobernuts]

my 13.7 Noveske averages 2524 with 77gr otm

[@Keepinitmovin-tw7dr]

7.5

[@seyahznarf]

14.5

[@Gunny11795]

12.5