139 - The Disappearance Patrick Carnes

[@leahvogelsimpson]

Poor Pat and Lucky. I get a bad feeling from hearing their case. He looks and sounds like a sweet older man. Who hurts an old man and his cute dog? So sad.

[@SukkaPunch321]

A psychopath, basically someone who looks the part of a human, but isn’t. They have no concept of right or wrong. They don’t understand empathy and don’t care about the pain they cause. They’re basically non-humans.

[@leahvogelsimpson]

@@SukkaPunch321 agree. An evil monster in human form. It's horrible. The poor guy made it to nearly 90 years old just to up and vanish with his doggie companion. If someone hurt them I hope they burn in hell. I don't want anyone hurt but those that take advantage of seniors and babies are the sickest.

[@jamesball8519]

@@SukkaPunch321 they definitely know the difference between right and wrong.

[@merricat3025]

@@jamesball8519 agree, they know the differnce, they just don`t care

[@ameliaflowers9836]

Cops

[@alikat1006]

I would never want anyone to get hurt or go missing but something about seniors going missing like this just breaks my heart. 💔

[@Geronimo2Fly]

Seniors and children. The worst.

[@MusicLeeSarah]

@Ruby Barber I've fallen and I can't get up

[@angelagak399]

Agreed. This one really got to me. :(

[@OikPoinFive]

U better bee sing goal

[@bobbyblue46]

The police officer was told by the victim that he was following the truck and the police officer doesn’t take the time to have a conversation with the truck driver and doesn’t remember the logo on the truck. I am really starting to believe that the police are involved in a lot of these missing persons cases .

[@kimymarie596]

Any missing person is tragic, but It really hurts my heart when a disappearance involves children or the elderly. 🙏🏻

[@angelagak399]

Ya, this one really got to me. So very sad.

[@alienesang1492]

@Shaun me too because we’re all human we’re all someone’s child no matter how old we are... some people are just evil 😢

[@melissasaint3283]

We can only hope, no matter what happened, that he didn't suffer😢

[@ScaryBoomBoomGun]

No paw prints with the footprints is a good sign that Patrick was not the one who put the car there. His breed of dog is also very loyal and protective of their owners. Lucky would follow Patrick, or tear apart the car if he was left inside while Patrick was outside to stretch his legs, take a leak, e.t.c.

[@juord]

An elderly man and his dog going missing to never be found. just makes me really sad…

[@VegasLounge]

I love taking solo road trips but as a female traveler I'm always keeping my eyes open, drive with more gas than not in the tank, and never post photos of where I stopped until hours after I've left. Unfortunately you just can't be too careful if you're in a "vulnerable" group and it's a damn shame because some of the most beautiful skies you'll ever see are in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. Cases like this involving the elderly always to get me. Patrick sounds like a remarkable human being- I hope I'm able to keep hitting the road at 86(!) Godspeed, fellow traveler.

[@tammymcc-n7652]

It’s scary traveling. Several years ago I was driving from Joplin, Missouri to Tulsa , Oklahoma to visit my sister. I had my 2 year old daughter with me. Right over the Oklahoma border I stopped for gas and I noticed a man in a truck watching me. Weird, but at the time I was young and pretty, ( if I do say so myself) and didn’t think too much of it. But when I pulled out onto the highway he began to follow me. He tail gated me, pulled along side me gesturing for me to pull over. It was scary as hell. This was before cell phones so I couldn’t call for help. Finally I found an exit and pulled off and ran into a fast food restaurant grabbing my baby daughter. They called the police and I waited there. The truck came into the parking lot and waited but when the police showed up they left. The police followed me for several miles and then I finally made it to my sisters house. But it was terrifying.

[@tammymcc-n7652]

@@user-lk2qf4rt3m Yes, it was so scary, and to make it worse I had my 2 year old daughter with me. I was trying to stay calm but she sensed I was scared and she was crying. And I literally yanked her out of her car seat at the McDonald’s. I was afraid he would jump out of the truck and either grab me and my daughter.

[@tammymcc-n7652]

@BKK I hope not. I really know in my heart he was a predator.

[@tammymcc-n7652]

@@user-lk2qf4rt3m Thank you. I don’t know how brave I was, I was just thinking about my baby daughter.

[@gionee7035]

That scary

[@tammymcc-n7652]

@@gionee7035 Yep, it was terrifying.

[@daisycassidy2448]

Such a sad and tragic story. I suspect foul play and that the trucker was involved somehow. Mr Carnes seemed like such a kind and intelligent soul who deserved to live his life out naturally. I'm sorry about Lucky, too. On the bright side, this was a well-done and well-structured video. You went all out to uncover everything possible. Thank you for your hard work.

[@angelagak399]

This one is so very sad. Poor man. He seemed like such a nice, sweet man. Hearing him say he'll never drive at night again was crazy. Very very sad. I *really* hope his family gets answers soon. Another great vid, SP.

[@Jen-nemo1934]

If no fingerprints were found, being the car was wiped clean.. that may indicate, at least in law enforcement's mind, that it was foul play. And also.. where's the dog??

[@Tsumami__]

Sometimes it just means they couldn’t pull any useable prints

[@traherne6726]

Listening to him on the police dash cam, he sounds so vulnerable, just following a truck in trust. Very sad.

[@yoursotruly]

Stopped at a truck stop, pulled out a roll of cash and a bad man was watching. When he was pulled over, he was following a truck that would have been ahead of him and could not be the one that passed them. The truck he was following may have waited for him to catch up if they had an arrangement for him to follow it, if the truck stopped at exit 205, Patrick would have stopped also and that driver could have killed him, drove his car a short distance to hide it, stole his cash and disposed of his body far away leaving Lucky to wander. Just one truck driver could do it alone but two would be easier though one can keep a secret better.

[@Hurricanetongue]

Is that what happened? Are you trying to tell us you know who did it?

[@shaneculkin7124]

THANK YOU for finally matching up the visuals with the story. And also audio.. WOOHOOOO!!! Seriously impressed. Thanks very much!!

[@Jen-nemo1934]

Yes.. my ocd was very thankful. I was listening from the side, as per usual, until I noticed.. then I had to back it up and actually "Watch".. lol.

[@sourgummyworms8069]

The music is always great and really sets the tone for these cases.

[@marklittler784]

Wonder what music station his radio was set to.

[@theavandenberg6876]

I have been in the US a couple of times and I rented a car twice. But I always made it a point NOT to drive in the dark. I only drive in the dark in my own country. I am not afraid of the dark, but it's just a precaution.

[@devinisdead4061]

Very wise decision. You just never know when a car might break down.

[@maroonforsyth7011]

And? People still have to do things after the sun sets. Single moms, midnight shift works, people who have an emergency etc...don't have that luxury

[@devinisdead4061]

maroon Forsyth well ya different luxuries are afforded by different people. This is true. Its sad we have to worry about terrible people doing terrible things for sure.

[@bethanntay]

@@maroonforsyth7011 they were just saying wise decision... which it is. Not that everyone can do it. Unfortunately, some people can't. Be safe.

[@cdd4248]

This podcast is affirmation you made the right choice!

[@CARDINAL701]

I've always thought there were a lot of truck drivers who were predators and murderers...not knocking truckers because I have very good friends who are over-the-road truckers....but there's a dark side to that profession.

[@neuralmute]

Absolutely agreed. I've got truckers in my family who are completely stand-up folk (with no worse crimes than the best salty talk you'll hear anywhere!), but it's also the perfect line of work for a mobile serial killer who doesn't want to get caught. My uncle, a retired trucker, can give a hilarious, if kind of terrifying monologue on some of the interesting people he used to meet on the road. And he ends it by pulling out his pocket knife, begins to pick his teeth with it, and says, "... and there's ME." Perfect deadpan black humour, but scary once you think it over.

[@jeromeburdine966]

Someone made a comment about predatory truck drivers. Now, my gf will swear to you that they are some of the nastiest drivers to you if you so much as get in their lane when they don't want you to or they also gang up on you with other drivers, giving you a hard time while driving. Maybe a situation like this occurred where he did something one of them didn't like and they "bullied" him off the side of the road and then something happened. I'm sure a majority of truckers are decent and I give them credit for the work they do but there are probably a few vindictive ones out there.

[@MusicLeeSarah]

Omg truckers are norma.... Wait my soon to be narcissistic mentally abusive ex husband is a trucker. never mind as you were...

[@kadyk4185]

That type of profession attracts a certain type of man. Not many people want to be alone on a dark road for hours or sometimes days.

[@jamesball8519]

Theirs a dark side to every profession your statement is nonsense.

[@fabergeegg1722]

I remember when this case was originally reported. Bunch of my relatives were sitting around talking about various things, and someone brought this case up. My cousin said she traveled through that same area of I-80 some moons before. I think she was by herself. She said that area is one of the most scary as hell areas to drive through. She hated it. I'm sorry, but neither senior nor anyone should travel like that by him or herself. I would never allow my parents who are in their 80s travel like that. They too are very sharp, and they don't act like people in their 80s. But it doesn't matter, my sister, brother, and me would never ever let them do that. We live in a very dangerous world and there a lot of evil people out there.

[@whitedragoness23]

I wonder if his mental state was deteriorating as he said he wouldn’t travel at night again. Which it could mean he was having a hard time being able to travel on his own. Sometimes people don’t realize older people have symptoms of Alzheimer’s and the elder relative seem ok but symptoms are appearing.

[@cassandraluvlee4567]

Being from this area, I've never seen someone cover this case in almost any detail besides a few articles here and there, and I revisit the case almost once a year since it happened because I'm obsessed with mysteries and a bonus since it happens right in my back yard. So interesting and also sad. I do hope one day there will be real answers.

[@rocknroll6396]

same here...i dont live there but have traveled through on 80 many times passing that exit and it always hits home that all these years and zero answers

[@jeromeburdine966]

Wow, it's unbelievable how many people disappear without a trace!! My gf has traveled hundreds of millions of miles on I-80, I-70, I-95, etc. by herself, day/night since her 20s and has never met any nefarious people! It just blows her mind that this stuff even happens!!!

[@Autumn_Forest_]

Same! I’ve been driving like a madwoman at night for decades (I’m 46), and I don’t recall any issues at all.

[@glendalangley1877]

@Ruby Barber You can’t be jinxed if you have Jesus by your side.

[@Autumn_Forest_]

@Ruby Barber One really important thing is to maintain your vehicle so you don’t break down, don’t go to middle-of-nowhere/poorly-lit little gas stations (I go to large travel stops or Walmart’s Murphy USA for gas), don’t get out of your car without police present if you have an accident and don’t feel 100% safe, don’t accept help from strangers if something happens (use roadside assistance or police), bring snacks and drinks so you don’t have to get out to buy a lot of stuff, use the bathroom inside places like McDonald’s or Taco Bell (just buy a $1 drink or whatever), fill up your gas tank completely so you don’t have to stop so often, don’t wait until you’re almost out of gas to fill up again (you could run out and be stuck somewhere), sleep at very busy rest areas that have security and lots of lighting (sleep near the entrance off the building, which is the busiest place, where no one will mess with you - even if it might be harder to sleep), make sure you’re lights, wipers, etc., are all working 100%, keep a spare tire (even if just a little donut), and most of all - don’t trust strangers or go anywhere with them, even if they seem super nice, helpful, kind, normal, etc. The nicest people can turn out to be evil when they get you alone.

[@no_peace]

I've had incidents but pretty much go where I want. Some forest service type roads have been a bit much for me, especially if I can't turn around, which is always disappointing. I always have pepper spray and other self-defense items. People at rest stops, like the coffee volunteers, always used to react in shock when they'd see me by myself

[@Scorned405]

@@glendalangley1877 Really?? Lol. Well why doesn’t Jesus prevent this old man and his dog from disappearing??? Smh

[@tf8187]

Love your channel, keep up the great work! Thank you.

[@silojm]

I’m so glad I was recommended your videos this is the best channel ever. Your narration is amazing, and the fact that you cover all the details and that we get the whole story really means a lot and gets people to think about these cases. love what you are doing keep up the good work.

[@doobat708]

My grandad is the same age as this man would be, were he still alive. He drove well into his 90s, maybe longer than he should have, before he was declared unfit to drive anymore. It really gets to me that a man like that could just vanish, or worse, that someone set out to harm him.

[@eriksmovies244]

I’m so glad you discuss male cases too. There’s so many times that their disappearances are overlooked because it seems most disappearances happen to women and children. So thank you for sharing all types

[@susand1177]

What a shame the person who may have seen Lucky didn't call for animal rescue of some kind...even if it wasn't Lucky. Poor Pat, this is such a tragic story.

[@AMYV3]

Thank you sir. I always look so forward to each episode you drop :). We appreciate you very much. ❤️❤️❤️🇨🇦

[@jezt42]

All cases are tragic, but this one is especially so, since it involves perhaps an overly-trusting kind old man. Since some others put in the comments what they were doing whilst listening to the podcast, I was planting holly and lavender plants in the garden here in the UK. 🙂

[@AMYV3]

Sounds like a great day :). Happy holidays from 🇨🇦

[@Autumn_Forest_]

I hope they grow and flourish!!

[@jezt42]

@@Autumn_Forest_ Thank you! 👍

[@jezt42]

@@AMYV3 Thank you, Amy, right back at you! 👍

[@brainsareus]

It's funny to me; how posters, and even Pacheco; talk as if they knew these poor people. At best, we have a tiny snapshot of who these people were; good, bad, and in between.

[@MultiSmartass1]

Notes: 1) My suspicion is that if Patrick were a victim of foul play that the assailant wasn't a truck driver but someone who who knew enough about the area to perhaps give that impression if necessary. 2) Patrick's car was found at an odd angle and looked undisturbed inside with no usable prints. I think the car was abandoned by someone else likely a possible assailant . 3) The previous case of Judith in which her truck was left in the same spot strikes me as coincidence by. intention. The assailant may have known of the case and where it was found . I don't think that if there was an assailant that the same person chose the exact same spot he would left a victim several years before . A large wide area full of possible areas to pull over or leave a car. Why that small spot? Seems like it was chosen to give the impresssion that the two cases were related . 4) I think Patrick was a victim. The area where his car was found was not marked on his map and everything about this case seems intentional: the trucker frequented stretch of road, the spot the car was found in, the condition of the car.

[@amy0077]

Hi Stephen Pacheco, many thanks for all you do. This is grade A reporting. Have a lovely holiday season. 🔍🔎🔍🔎

[@Modern_Nostalgia]

I wonder if Patrick was lured by that unknown truck driver he was following. Perhaps Patrick and Judith made easy targets for robbery or whatnot. I can imagine that trucker saying "yeah just follow behind me and I'll make sure you get to your destination safely and in one piece..."

[@RealistVoid1331]

I really miss the music track you used to use during the podcast. It lent elements of mystery and suspense in your earlier episodes. Can't wait to have them included again!

[@Sid0419]

If the cop pulled Pat you would imagine he lost track of the truck he was following. I think he lost his way and took help from someone that robbed him and probably killed him

[@adricklynn8882]

I'm losing my longtime friend and family kitty today and hearing about lucky the dog immediately made me cry. Poor guys :(

[@rdred8693]

Oh no. I'm so sorry. Lucky and Pat. Let us never forget them.

[@lisafanucchi5939]

If he was lost his body or bones would’ve eventually been found. This is totally foul play. Poor Pat and his dog 🐾😔 I hope this is solved soon!!! Your channel is amazing, thank you for all you do with these cases!

[@greglysne3260]

I don't see it let then ten miles away a lady covered her husband's body with concrete.

[@pulaski1]

It was more than 13 years before any remains of the German family were found after their vehicle had multiple punctures on a "road" (barely passable track) in Death Valley National Park on 23 July 1996, and they were searched for multiple times, and IIRC only found because of persistent and repeated searches by off duty search and rescue professionals. It took more than a year for Steve Fossett's remains to be found in the Sierra Nevada despite what is said to be the largest search for a single person in US history, .... and that search was for a crashed plane as well as a person/body! The site of the plane crash was only found after a hiker coincidentally found some crumpled identification cards, about 750 yards from the crash site and even then it required further searching taking a couple of days to find the crash. The crash would certainly have killed him and yet the only remains found, just a year later, were a couple of bones half a mile away, dragged there by animals. So finding Pat's remains in the desert would be tough even a few _weeks_ later, but probably impossible as little as a year later.

[@majikthise7458]

If animals got a hold of his body, bones would be scattered all over the dessert. If you've been out in the desert, there are bones all over the place. Mostly animal bones...

[@lisafanucchi5939]

@@majikthise7458 or people bones

[@scerb100]

Have you ever traveled through the deserts in the US? It’s incredible easy to dispose of a body. Wyoming... west Texas... man these places are unsettling when you think of how isolated you are

[@AMYV3]

How anyone would hurt someone let alone kill them will always stun me. A stranger too. Young Women children and the elderly 😞😞 Of course men too it’s just so incredibly sad

[@neuralmute]

Predators usually target the people they think are most defenceless. The smallest, the youngest, and the eldest. The helplessness of the victims is what adds to our sense of disgust and outrage.

[@blondegypsy8525]

...or animals....

[@bobbyblue46]

People have to understand that criminals only care about one thing satisfying their own selfish needs. Criminals don’t have hearts instead they are cold blooded monsters that will harm anyone no matter their age just to get what they want.

[@Tamara-ny2ey]

Finally ! What sticks out to me is Steven Koecher was missing from Nevada also that’s one of my pet cases however I’ve never heard of this case but I’m very interested thanks Steven.

[@thebewitchinghour831]

I was listening while multitasking and I think I might have missed a detail. If he was following the trucker when he got pulled over, did the trucker keep going or did he pull over also and wait for Patrick? I would think the trucker would have just kept going and no way that Patrick would have caught up with him. This is the only thing that I wonder about that would make the truck driver not a suspect.

[@candyrain09able]

This notification just made my night. Now I'm all ready for bed. Thank you for the video. I already know it'll be good 😊👍

[@GJYYC]

I'd be curious if the seat was in the right place in the vehicle, did they luminol it, footprints, fingerprints?

[@marklittler784]

Wonder if the mirrors were in the correct position too, what the volume of the radio was what station was being played on the radio, what the heater settings were, whether the spare wheel was punctured, whether the water and oil was ok.

[@DannySB991]

@@marklittler784 I'd also like to know if the footprints they found next to the car did belong to Patrick at all. Same brand of shoe...shoe size...etc

[@gionee7035]

This channel deserve 1M

[@darkideascharliebacardi]

Poor Pat & his dog, very sad story & more than likely they're deceased. It's sad you can't go hardly anywhere or trust anyone.

[@mts982]

Get video from the truck stops in the area to see who he talked to.

[@susandhifaoui]

I was wondering the same thing. if they could have looked at CCTV at truck stops along the way.

[@megyskermike]

Pretty sure he said the police tried, but for whatever reason video cameras in those areas weren't working temporarily/therefore there was no video footage.

[@mts982]

@@megyskermike well yeah, there was no video footage cause there was no video footage.

[@TNcatlover33]

I suspect that trucker HIGHLY! As far as the car being stuck could it be they were trying to get the car further in to the dessert than where it was found so it wouldn’t have been spotted from the interstate? It got stuck snd couldn’t go any further. I absolutely believe he talked to that trucker and that trucker knew he was following him or her (or both. I know several man and woman truck driving teams and that would have disarmed him as well as Judith if a woman were involved). If that trucker knew he was following him/her why hasn’t he came forward? Also did they investigate the person who said they “spotted “ lucky? Could have been injecting himself in to the investigation . That person either took Lucky and kept him or killed him because Lucky would have been found even if Pat wasn’t and a dog would stand out in that area. Yeah this isn’t just a random disappearance .

[@Lerch-zc3ww]

Thank you for covering this case! It always seemed it never got it's due attention.

[@blondegypsy8525]

So sad. Thank you for doing this-hope someone can help.

[@Koala1203]

This video was uploaded on my birthday. Thank you Steve! 🐨

[@KK-fr2jl]

My favourite true crime podcast!!

[@Mmm10348]

Why is life like this it is horrible can’t think like this

[@taticatnineland]

One suggestion that I’d have that I haven’t seen yet is that there may be something about that area that is in some way disorientating or giving false visual information that is more greatly affecting senior citizens than others, kind of like the famous dog suicide bridge that turned out to be a visual trap for dogs along with the scent of some kind of rodent. That’s not to say that I don’t think it could be a serial killer - I think that’s absolutely possible - but in looking at the two missing, the one commonality I see is age. Usually serial killers stick to one gender, although there could be an issue of convenience at work, too. I’m just suggesting that something else might explain why two senior citizens might have gone missing in the same area with their vehicles abandoned in similar positions.

[@slwtgf]

A+ /excellent job , THANK YOU for covering thoroughly, as there isn’t much info to search out more details- I vaguely remember this man and dog on a billboard, though he’s far from MN! Breaks heart, we need this solved..

[@am74343]

I'm glad people are finally bringing these lesser-known unsolved disappearances onto KZbin so that more people can see them in the hopes of getting them solved.

[@kjweitzel4752]

For what it's worth, the truck that he was apparently following, looks like it has a TYSON insignia on the side. (Granted, it just flashes by in a blur, so not 100% sure.) I used to live in Arkansas, where Tyson is based, and I saw so many of those trucks, it just sorta lives in my subconscious. It was triggered, first thing, as it whizzed by. I hope his family gets some answers. His loss would've been hard, period, without the heartache of dealing with terrible possibilities.

[@glendalangley1877]

That’s possibly a very good clue. I hope they’ll follow up with this. Usually those instincts are spot on.

[@kjweitzel4752]

@@glendalangley1877 I tried zooming in on it, but it just got blurrier I'm gonna pull up a clear pic & compare it. If I still feel that sense of recognition & don't second-guess myself out of it, I'll send it to the FB page I think was mentioned. That poor family! He seemed to be such a good man, who'd lived an upstanding life. He reminded me of my Dad, & I can't imagine how I'd feel if it were him.

[@glendalangley1877]

@@kjweitzel4752 I know. Same here. He could very well still be alive. That picture was very grainy thou. It would be amazing if you could get a clearer one. I’ve wondered too if the police tried using dogs to find him. His clothes were still in the car with his scent on them. I just hurt for him and the family. Makes me wish I could do something to find all these missing people. Now if it was a child or young woman I’d be thinking human trafficking. Not for a man this age thou. I believe wholeheartedly in those 6th senses. They’ve never failed me yet either. Good luck and if you uncover something please let me know. Just looking into his eyes you can tell he was a kindhearted man. He deserves to be found or closure for his family.

[@kjweitzel4752]

@@glendalangley1877 I dunno. It's been 9 years. Sadly, I think he's dead. If I recall, there had been alot of rain & snow, making tracking impossible. Altho, they apparently found a single pair of footprints leading away from the car. *I wonder if a casting was done of the prints. *It's a shame that the report by the witness who saw a dog didn't come in time to bear fruit. If it was microchipped, can that be used to locate him or his remains? *Like so many senior citizens, he didn't use credit cards or have a cellphone. Either/both could've provided soo much info. I dunno about 9 years ago, but now there are onboard computers in cars. It would show when the vehicle stopped & any changes in speed, direction, restart, etc. For that matter, if he'd stopped at a gas station or truck stop (& spoke with a driver about following him; maybe the guy saw the cash & said "Where ya headed? I can show ya the way. Follow me!"), the computer would show WHEN that occurred. Maybe WHERE, too, perhaps the town he had circled on his map. Using all that data could formulate WHERE that happened. With place & time, there could be a roster of what big trucks were there at the same time (if he purchased something). Surveillance video of that time would've been GREAT. It'd also be a helluva list for potential witnesses AND suspect. Start with any trucks with two people onboard, for starters. (IF there were two people, as suggested.) *The lady disappearing 5 years before, under similar circumstances, is bizarre. I thought it sounded like a domestic abuse / murder, actually. Imagine if it WAS: he got away with it once, so why not kill again? Anyway! My brother-in-law is a long-time truck driver. I sent this video to him, asking if anything stood out to him. Dear gawd, this is what too much caffeine does to ya! 😹 Actually, my Dad was a career cop; the best conversations we had were about solving crimes. He loved it, it was like a mystery puzzle. I believe the truth always is revealed . Unfortunately, it's too late to help in this case, but it could help keep it from happening again & allow his family members to stop the torture of always wondering.

[@glendalangley1877]

@@kjweitzel4752 Sadly I have to agree with you. I think too many years have come and gone. I don’t know how much work the police put into tracking all the info laid out that you did. You should actually be in some kind of law enforcement. You e got a good head for this. I don’t know anything about chipping dogs. That one pair of footprints is bagging at me. Even if it were his they would have seen Lucky’s too. Apparently other people have gone missing along that stretch oh highway. I’m still seeing that dear man’s eyes in my head. He looked like such a kind man. Trusting. I have to wonder how scared he was. It’s heartbreaking. I don’t know how much family is left but I hope they’ve found peace. It’s a terrible painful feeling to always wonder. Thanks for the info you’ve provided. Maybe it will help future people in their searches. Goodness knows there’s so many victims. Too many victims. Thank you.

[@amberwallace2850]

Doesn’t have a cell phone ?only uses cash? Yep that’ll be my dad if ever went missing.

[@idaniaesparza3881]

There are many truckers who turned out to be serial killers. I live in reno and there was a serial killer trucker near Donner Pass I 80!!!

[@marykazeck1449]

I wonder if the truck driver pulled over and waited for him when the police pulled him over

[@jjoneil1554]

Does anyone ever think that maybe he had pulled off because the dog had to go potty and the door either ventured off and he couldn’t find him or he got injured when looking for the dog also and couldn’t make it back to his vehicle,,,,But it is super odd how the vehicle was pulled in instead of just pulled vertically with the road

[@rocknroll6396]

and the fact the cops have found other missing peoples cars parked in almost the same spot and parked the same way

[@qoriqinti4505]

I’m very saddened by this case and I don’t think there’s much doubt that foul play is involved. However, I have to say my dad is in his 80s and is healthy but there is no way our family would ever let him drive such a distance unaccompanied, with no cell phone, any means of protecting himself, let alone at night. It completely unsafe for an elderly man to be driving such a distance in that kind of desolate terrain at night.

[@mts982]

The cops couldnt get companies to see what truckers were in that stretch of road at that time?

[@jewell92]

That area is not populated. It's quite remote.

[@mts982]

@BKK or compare trucking manifests from BOTH crimes time frame and see if same trucker or company was driving in that area at those times.

[@mts982]

@Ruby Barber still should be records. cops look through hundreds of hours of security tape, they can look through records of trucks, they know the time frame of the crime(s) so that would help.

[@mts982]

@Ruby Barber they can cross reference the 2 times and see if the name(s) that come at both times and interview those drivers.

[@petehohmann3138]

I have a feeling they already did that or at least tried to.

[@Tsumami__]

Wonder if he mentioned to the truck driver that he only carried cash and did not use cards (for whatever reason, maybe it came up in casual conversation about gas prices or something similar) and was robbed and dumped out there where he just hasn’t been found yet. Also I wonder if the spot where both vehicles were approximately found was a spot on the interstate where there was less light or an area where vehicles could pull off to the side with a little more room, a spot that a predator would keep an eye out for as easier to use to dump a body, push someone off the road, attack someone who is pulled over etc. Perhaps the cases are not related directly but that’s why the cars were found in very close spots.

[@claudiavalencia4504]

Since the truck driver didn't contact police I feel he had something to do with it

[@brainsareus]

Insane assumption. We can't be sure he knew what happened behind him; plus, people are reluctant to talk to cops; because innocent people, do at times get caught up in theories that cops have about their degree of involvement.

[@amyrients]

Trucking companies know where their trucks are, I would think. Who had a truck along that road at that time?

[@sandradavis33]

@ Marshall Carwood, yes trucking companies know where their trucks are, Qualcom can locate a truck within 26 feet and that was years ago when i drove. I have hauled a million dollars worth of highly taxed cigarettes, do you really think they don't know where that truck is? And no most trucks are not owner operators anymore, it's too hard to compete with companies like Swift and other companies that don't really pay drivers that good. When my ex husband and i bought our first truck, after fuel and insurance we usually took home about 5,000 dollars a week. Of course we had upkeep, taxes, road taxes, and several other things. Then fuel went up, the government got to involved, they opened the boarders so that we had to compete with drivers out of other countries, which brought rates down.

[@brainsareus]

@@sandradavis33 This was a decade ago; not ALL trucks were being monitored. Especially; smaller box trucks, which, this one may have been.

[@Scorned405]

Now they even have cameras inside them to watch the driver driving. It’s a real shady industry. I got out of it several years ago

[@rdred8693]

This terrible case and Johnny Goshe are two of three cases I would love to see solved. Poor Pat and Lucky!!

[@dulce3744]

I always wondered what had happened to him i remember when they first aired it in americas most wanted with john walsh

[@jennylynny]

Is it just me or is the audio fading in and out between sentences? I've checked and it's only the recent episodes on this channel.. This is my favorite channel lol

[@kdlee3316]

Is it possible the officer is involved?

[@OriginalPrincess32]

I thought of that too

[@dhenry1745]

Be real dude

[@kevinoshea4134]

This sounds like it could be a missing 411 case. Poor guy and his dog

[@kevinoshea4134]

Bkk it's true read the books

[@eriksmovies244]

@BKK missing 411 is a great book. There’s something going on. Strange how almost every time someone goes missing in a national forest you hear about weather hindering the searches.

[@petehohmann3138]

It’s interesting, I read an article on this case that suggested a husband and wife serial killer team. I don’t know where they got this from, why they suggested it or if they know more about this case than everyone else.

[@Scorned405]

Not very bright to not have a cell phone. Especially out in that area

[@serenethoughts921]

Maybe I’m a skeptic but Judith’s husband likely had something I do with her disappearance.

[@angelagak399]

Statistically, yes. Sadly.

[@TheRoadhammer379]

skeptic

[@CDN1975]

Judith was depressed and maybe suicidal.

[@imlistening1137]

I hope everyone has a cell phone on the roads these days....

[@katerryjackson749]

So Steven, I see that they have monetize this video, that's a shocker lol. But back to the subject. I think the trucker Pat was following had something to do with his disappearance. And poor Lucky just got lost in the desert. I think Judith's disappearance is unrelated even though her car was abandoned in the same area. So sad for both families

[@WallStreetWill86]

Two things: 1. I am not sure about the trucker do we know for a fact that he was following the truck? Did the truck stop with him when he was pulled over as he would have to if he were following him. Its possible he was never following a truck and perhaps just said that as an explanation as to why he didn't slow down or move to the left when the officer asked him in an effort to avoid a ticket. 2. Why would he even need to follow a trucker to ELKO?? He lived in Nevada for a while and should have known how to get to Elko himself without following anyone there. It was also said he had traveled from Ohio to Nevada several times so, again, not sure why he would even need anyone to follow there. Its important to not jump the gun right now with so little evidence in both cases. Even IF you want to say there was foul play in both cases there is not proof at this point it was done by the same person or people. The spot the cars were left is intriguing however that's all it is at this point.

[@scerb100]

If he had done it so many times what else could have happened? I understand your point that he may have just been telling the officer that to get out of it. Say that’s true. Now, what could have happened after that? If his car broke down why would you get out of it in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere and try to walk or whatever. If you’ve traveled extensively through areas like this you would know that’s a bad idea? And if your car broke down, why not wait till the morning? Yes, it sucks but it’s not as if NO ONE is going to pass by in the next 24hrs. If I was on the road at 3am and my car broke down I’d hang tight, nap, whatever, wait till the sun came up and wait for someone to pass by. Now from there, he could have gotten picked up and killed. It seemed like his car was ditched but what if an animal ran out in the road and he swerved to avoid it? I drove through south-central Texas out near Big Bend and wow talk about desolate- straight out of a horror film. Incredibly eerie, oddly beautiful but no one on the roads but truckers and many animals crossing in the middle of the night.

[@WallStreetWill86]

@@scerb100 All valid points. I'm not sure on a theory, personally, I just dont think there's enough information right now. I honestly don't think he would have really been following someone so close to home. I can buy into the idea he may have stopped to sleep briefly after changing his mind about driving in the dark. After that it's anyone's guess.

[@valerie7008]

When Pat said he was following that truck because it was going to Reno, it could’ve been that he did talk to that driver. Or it could just be he noticed the address of the trucking company on the side door and assumed that’s where the truck was heading. Either way this case is so sad.

[@charlieangkor8649]

Imagine a relative of this old age has disappeared for 30 years already. You might prefer his bones to be found instead of the uncertainty of not knowing what happened to him. On the contrary, if the disappearance is just 1 day old, you probably prefer not to hear from him than being notified that his bones were found. Now, where is the boundary? After how many days, weeks, months, years, decades do the relatives start prefering to know that the relative is dead?

[@glendalangley1877]

There’s always hope. Some have been found after years. Speaking for myself I’d want to know. Otherwise my mind would always be wondering. No closure. My dad is almost 90. It would break my heart not knowing if he were still alive somewhere.

[@glendalangley1877]

I have to wonder if the police brought in their sniffer dogs and tried to trail the scent. His clothes were still in the car.

[@TheXmeimei]

Why would the cops had their eyes on the truck driver？ Even if the truck driver had some evil attention toward a stranger, who was driving his own car, not like that the old guy was stranded on the road needing a ride, ... the traffic cop had already unintentionally (accidentally?) foiled his murder plan. Plus, the minute Carnes was pulled over, the truck was driving on forward, ... by the time Carnes was back on the road, the truck was how many miles away？ Another thing, WHY would Carnes needed to follow anybody to begin with？He had a map！

[@Vamatt99218]

Thats why I'm afraid to drive long distances at night... better to drive when the sun is out.

[@jonathanrequena4361]

It’s a dangerous world out there people really need to be careful as much as I would like for pat to still be alive I feel that he was kidnapped and in don’t know why but I believe by the trucker but that’s my 2 cents who knows

[@Scorned405]

I think the trucker has something to do with it

[@MariaJohn]

I guess my first question would be, did the trucker that he was following stop and/or slow down when Patrick was pulled over?

[@melissasaint3283]

I can't imagine someone being related to a police officer AND private investigator who are devoted to solving the case, and there's still no trace 😟

[@Autumn_Forest_]

A military man (a hero in my eyes), a beloved and devoted husband, father, and dog dad, and EIGHTY-SIX YEARS OLD... so very sad. Who would hurt an old man and his beloved dog?? This world is too much for me. I often wish I had never been conceived. The world is just too messed up for some of us. (Don’t worry - I’m not suicidal; just wish I hadn’t been born in the first place, which is quite different.)

[@kevinoshea4134]

Or in another time

[@Autumn_Forest_]

@@kevinoshea4134 YES!

[@brainsareus]

One can be Gungho on military people if that your thing; but why is a military person automatically a hero? there are awful people who go to war, and come back from war; and there are those who commit atrocities. I am not saying this guy is not good. I just challenge the idea that being in the military autmaticlly makes one a hero. That's a croc. BTW, WW2; which he was in, was the last necessary war the US was ever in. My heroes; are the people who fight for the ecology of the planet, abolishing child labor, and fighting racism.......... not, stealing other people's oil!!

[@Autumn_Forest_]

@@brainsareus I said nothing about all military men; I said “a hero.” “A” is a singular article. This man was in WWII, and he served honorably in a very necessary and honorable war. You can worship your fellow SJWs all you want, and I will honor HONORABLE vets all I want. Just remember who fought for your right to hate on your own country.

[@danbaron2561]

I'm like you.

[@ilkkarautio2449]

I live in a very rural area, and when you leave the nearest town towards the closest actual metropolitan area, the road is completely dark for a loooong way until there starts to be light from houses and the road itself has lights. So getting lost is a major possibility. 🤔

[@ameliaflowers9836]

Police being the last human to see him .cops not being guilty of anything ever. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@diturner7247]

Yes it is very suspect.

[@pulaski1]

I think the simplest explanation is the most likely - Pat drove off the road, perhaps accidentally, perhaps to walk his dog, but either way got his car stuck and he wandered off, perhaps confused, and got lost. As cold as it was, at his age he wouldn't have survived long, perhaps not even the rest of that night. He may have crawled into a hole or culvert to get shelter, making him harder to find, but once dead his body would be soon scavenged. A very sad case, but my gut feeling is that there is a mystery, but not a crime.

[@pegs1659]

Same here.

[@scerb100]

Why would anyone think it’s a great idea to wander off in the desert at night? Especially a guy who’s traveled through there before. It’s pointless to do that. And if his car was stuck he could still have stayed in it, kept warm and wait till the morning to flag someone down. I just don’t know why anyone would be careless enough to walk aimlessly into the night

[@pulaski1]

@@scerb100 He was 86 years old! Sooner or later most people who live to an advanced age, start to lose their mental faculties, getting prone to episodes of being "confused", "disoriented", or just start to make choices that "aren't entirely logical." Also he didn't have a cell phone, so having, for whatever reason, driven off the road late at night and got stuck, the only good decision would have been the one you mentioned, but there were several bad ones he could have taken.

[@brainsareus]

@@scerb100 OMG... it's an old chap; and, anyone of any age can have a lapse of judgment. Welcome to the world of fallible humanity...

[@scerb100]

@@pulaski1 sure I get that, but if that’s the case why would the family allow an 86 year old man to drive through the desert in the middle of night alone? It just doesn’t make sense that just that very night in that very place he had a mental lapse

[@shaneculkin7124]

I cannot believe that even an eighty-six year old man would not have at least am emergency cellular phone in his possession.. Or in his car in the year 2011

[@susandhifaoui]

initially, I was thinking the same thing but you have to realize that this generation was as tough as nails. They didn't use GPS, and for years before cellphones, we managed to travel cross-country with only the use of paper maps, and payphones at our comfort stops. I am not shaming at all, but a shame that his family didn't give him just a cheap cellphone to have on hand for the trip. Again not shaming, and people of this generation were so self-sufficient. they lived through depression and WWII. such a sad case.

[@tammymcc-n7652]

My 83 year old father does have a cell phone but hates it, and when we travel he insists on using a Rand McNally map.

[@jewell92]

Not that many elderly do have cells.

[@darlahays2471]

@BKK really? My elderly Aunt was first person I to have bought an iPad when they first came on the market. My 89 year old uncle has both a cellphone and a tablet that he uses on a daily basis. In fact most of the elderly people that I know use either a cellphone or computer or both.

[@jewell92]

@Ruby Barber Thay may or may not work in the desert.

[@Scorned405]

I have driven that stretch of road. It’s extremely desolate. It’s not far from the border of Utah and the salt flats. I definitely think the truck driver has a connection to Patrick’s disappearance. Why would he be following the driver and tell the state trooper that there seems like some shady stuff

[@greglysne3260]

This exit is about 30 miles away from where I live, and I really this its a local or a truck driver. If have to see the name of the post but on reddit there is a story on the i80 killer and it makes you wonder.

[@Tsumami__]

This vaguely reminds me of the Dexter Stefonek case. Older man driving long distance alone, foul play suspected. Except obvious differences are Stefoneks vehicle was torched and his body was found. Also, the likely suspect’s vehicle in that case was stated as having Arizona plates. Nevada and Arizona are right next to each other.

[@lisadowney1569]

Lucky would have protected Pat. I don't believe he would have left his side if he was hurt or worse. I also find it odd that someone would target Pat since he did have Lucky with him. Was Lucky turned into local animal control or shelters? Did a passerby pick him up and take him home and keep him? Although I believe he would not have left Pat's side and if someone was hurting Pat he would have protected him

[@rockstarofredondo]

Truly a mystery.

[@cananai2008]

Thank you!

[@MusicLeeSarah]

For me this is a somewhat confusing case and I'll have to watch this over again but I like these videos that make me think!

[@TheSmashingDoc1]

they shouldnt be called predators, it sounds to cool and powerfull, like a tiger or lion. they are just psychos with some braindamage

[@nbr1096]

Afternoon nap listening to this 😍😍

[@Autumn_Forest_]

Same!!

[@barnowlces3883]

Me too till that I got a scary army commercial and was startled awake :(

[@donkiko6708]

I listen to go to sleep at night and I sleep like a 3 month old baby lol

[@donkiko6708]

@@barnowlces3883 i know I hate those stupid ads

[@laurabuehler]

I always have a strong feeling about these cases & this one is no different. Very early in your discussion I became convinced of the person who murdered this man. I am not 100% sure that the woman's case was connected, but I think the killer was at least aware exactly where her vehicle had been abandoned & used that spot to throw off the investigation. I am not going to name the person because I have no proof whatsoever, but I will say that my suspect is someone you mentioned--but not someone that is necessarily a suspect.

[@Hurricanetongue]

@laura Buehler if you think you know who did it please say something now is not the time to get mysterious and respectful. Worst case scenario its not the person who you think it is and nothing happens, if they didn't do anything wrong nothing will happen to them. Please speak up and give us names!

[@christinemoore6911]

Suspect that the trucker was involved in this crime. These cases are nearly always much harder to solve since they happen in country/sparsely populated areas when no one is around.

[@PenskePC17]

I guarantee if you put that picture on a truck enthusiast forum, they would at the very least have the truck make/model and trailer make/model confirmed within a day.

[@jonfomaw756]

I feel it may involve a Refrigerated Truck 🛻 I’m wondering not easy to make man and a dog disappear. Given the search 🔦 that’s been carried out and ongoing. The victims are out of area. Without a trace is a problem??? 👀

[@kevinoshea4134]

I make it a point to never drive at night on road trips. Things change allot at night

[@donkiko6708]

Yea specially in a desert

[@thisisme3238]

I agree

[@TheRoadhammer379]

I think someone stalks the interstate, pulls up beside Judith and then Pat, gesturing that there's an issue with their vehicle. They pull over and strike.

[@cocosmalla2907]

I doubt the lady was related. Five years is a long stretch between events. She maybe wandered off intentionally. Undoubtedly, the gentleman fell prey to the truck driver. That breed of dog would NEVER leave the side of his owner! EVER. Someone took Pat. God love him.