An Appraisal of the New PMC twenty5 23i

[@1moderntalking1]

I like the fact that you tell it truthfully and without bias 😊 Subscribed…

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thank you very much 😀👍

[@nodyaheads5111]

Hi Simon. I love your video productions and insight, which do take a lot of effort and commitment from you. How do the PMC twenty5 23i and the previous model compare with the BBC-type monitors in terms of mid-range and voice reproduction? Thanks

[@JingoLoBa57]

Simon I was hoping for a lot more information on their sound signature- fuller review. Oh well must look elsewhere then.

[@alfredtan4648]

Hi Simon, does the this 23i goes well with the NAIM 282/250 combination? Also, would like to know the names of the musics you used in the video. Thanks and regards.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Don’t know what I don’t try. 😀I try to remember to put music lists in but Shazam or Siri etc is your friend too.

[@Rascallucci]

I did consider PMC, but I was thinking more towards the Twenty5 26i size, so I totally skipped the Twenty5 23i. But, when I saw the price point of the 26i, I really wasn't prepared to spend up to that amount at that point. What I had in mind in terms of budget was more around the 24i range max, but I was also concerned whether the more lively topend of the PMC house sound could be a tad much for extended listening sessions. In the end, I kept my brief with regards to size and went with the Dynaudio Evoke 50, a very different pair of speakers in terms of sound signature. It leans warmer, a full 3-way with a separate midrange, a soft dome tweeter and 2x18cm woofers which punches way above its size. But, I have already been doing research for the next upgrade. I have been thinking what if I were to swing back towards something with a slightly tighter and punchier bass with a more extended topend? Then, to my surprise I found something pretty interesting. It has similar characteristics as the PMC house sound, but only more all-rounded with a lusher midrange. In other words, if you like PMC, the chances are you may like them. It is in fact a high end brand, but the top model of its entry level range. It is the Marten Oscar Trio. It uses ceramic drivers and the enclosure also happens to be in the same trapezoidal shape as the PMC. The topend is just as extended as PMC, but not harsh (not necessarily saying PMC is harsh), but smoother. It is priced at around GBP 10K, just slightly more than the PMC Fact 8 Signature. Another perhaps safe choice in that similar sound signature and price point would be the B&W 804 D4. You might want to check out the Martens. I will leave a few links of some auditioning sessions for you. Listen to Weeknd's "I feel it coming" from the Korean dealer and see whether you like the punch. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4eQfGqhlNGWj9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/eaGxc5eoqJ6reJY kzbin.info/www/bejne/gni9fp6Qfctrm5I

[@kunsliu]

if i pair the 23 w the lyngdorf tdi1120?

[@lucullus6127]

Hi Simon, i have the Twenty5 24 and the Norma Revo Ipa 70 amp. Do you think the new Twenty5 23i would be a better option ? Thank you . Luca

[@jeffadams9699]

I have a chance to get a lightly used set of the Twenty5.23’s, not the i version. Is it a major difference between the two? I am pairing it with a Hegel H390.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

It’s a good change but I wouldn’t say major. I was going to upgrade with my old Cyrus amps but when I upgraded to the H390 , the extra brought was more than going to the newer 25.23i. It’s always an amp/speaker combo. What speakers do you have now?

[@jeffadams9699]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 I rotate speakers but for the most part I’m really enjoying the Quad S-2’s and ZU Audio Dirty Weekends on the Hegel’s. I own a ROST as well.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Pmc = big step up

[@jeffadams9699]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 the 390 transformed both speakers. It’s amazing what serious upstream electronics do to the sound of your speakers. Some people don’t get that.

[@jeffadams9699]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 are you familiar with both speakers?

[@RonRivet]

Hi, I had and regret selling my Rega R5 speakers. I thought I would "upgrade" to a pair of Totem Tribe Towers but I find the Totem Tibes to be on the lean/bright side. On good recordings like Dire Straits albums and Steely Dan albums, the Totem Tribes sound amazing! On less quality recordings, they aren`t as forgiving as my Rega R5`s were. I run an all Rega system which consists of a P6 tt with an Ania Pro Cart and an Elex r integrated amp. Though I am Canadian, I really do like and prefer the "British" sound. In your opinion, would the PMC 25 23i`s sound warmer yet detailed and less bright? Thanks for posting.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Hi Ron, I generally offer advice on Patreon or for a small fee now as I don’t have the time - I charge £25 for a 40 minute zoom chat.

[@danieloherrick6332]

If you haven't already, check the French made Jean Marie Reynaud speakers in particular the Bliss Jubilee or Euterpe Jubilee. The Bliss Jubilee is similar in design to the Twenty5 at $3500 US w/stands and the Euterpe Jubilee is a floor standing version of the Bliss Jubilee at $4250US. I know that JMR has Canadian distribution.

[@danieloherrick6332]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 Very reasonable cost!

[@erics.4113]

What type of music are you listening to with these? Are they decent all-arounders or mostly just suited to well recorded material?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

All rounders definitely . I listen to most stuff

[@powpowwow7729]

Great review. Listened to a pair of 25/24i and they sound amazing. I'm considering the i series or get a used 20/24 which cost less than half of the new i...what do u think?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thank you . I think you mean 25/24 - used 20/24 not the same proposition. I’d look at discounted older models ie 25/24 as the Twenty5 series a big improvement on twenty series.

[@powpowwow7729]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 thanks👍

[@AndyRat]

Considering a pair of these PMC twenty5.23i with a Hegel h390

[@markusschulzbro]

May I ask you a question? What is your room size? Just curious if these speakers would fit in my 22sqm room

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Not sure of exact size, I think a bit bigger than that. But I think they would. It's more a speaker I didn't go crazy on volume wise anyway

[@markusschulzbro]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 thanks!

[@robcaputo9708]

May I consult with you for about 10 minutes please, regarding a system upgrade ?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

On patreon yes

[@bert3803]

Hi I am thinking of purchasing the NAD M33 you have not reviewed it as yet hopefully soon. Speakers I was thinking about PMC twenty5.23i or the Dali EPICON 2.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Depends what you like and the tone of hifi you like, but I’d be a little bit cautious of matching a class d amp with these pmc’s to keep the treble at bay. I definitely would like to come back to the M33 later in the year. Hegel and pmc’s are a match made in heaven but I’m biased of course as I love that brand. The feature set and streaming/Dirac of the m33 will be really good, as I found out on the M10 I did. Please consider patreon subscribing as ideally if this is to grow and continue a consumer sub model is the best for me. I can advise you fully when I do the reviews.

[@BrentLeVasseur]

PMC makes high end active studio monitor speakers. I am currently looking at them for my home studio. I had no idea they made tower speakers too. Bert for a recommendation for your M33, I would highly recommend the Spatial Audio X5 open baffle speakers. You can’t get a better speaker for under $25,000 or at any price point really.

[@CandidUploads]

Thanks for the review. Since many dealers are discounting the original series in my area, so you think it is worth buying the originals at half the price of the new “i” series?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I think it really depends on you, but undoubtedly a half price model represents better value for money which is probably what you are already thinking. It's not a night a day difference but then hifi often isn't.

[@Villaboy78]

i'm going to see about doing a vs battle between these and the Spendor A7s sometime in the run up to xmas - good video once again :)

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thanks, I wish I had done that one Matthew when I borrowed these as the dealer had the A7's in the shop. I suspect the PMC's will be better as an improved design. I might be wrong.

[@steverees1936]

Hi Simon. Thanks for the review. I've watched this with great interest as I've seen a pair of Twenty5 26 for sale at just under £3000. My friend who is a PMC dealer is selling them.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Very good speakers Steve. If I had the space I would.....

[@HunterG1000]

If you have the amp buy them! Running these with a Rega Osiris and it is delicious.

[@pwhittak88]

Is this the video that was exclusive to patreon?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Yeah nobody paid for it . Wtf?

[@pwhittak88]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 I watched it to the end and got an advert I'm happy seeing. The reason I didn't pay to see it is I don't have an interest in purchasing the speakers so the video has little value to me even if I do enjoy the videos as an entertainment medium. My 2 cents 👍

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Paul Whittaker hardly an advert, as I said what was bad as well. Maybe you didn’t get to the end...The fact manufacturers don’t cover costs, nor do punters who watch it, everybody wants it (at cost to me, when I do it for others). Free riding. So it hardly makes it worth carrying on. Tbh I don’t think most have any idea of how long they take to produce. That intro clip for example, as it rarely get comments on such.

[@pwhittak88]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 no i seen an advert. KZbin shows adverts.

[@dadoluka4648]

new prodigy 5 test maybe?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

If you’ve got a pair…..

[@marcbos8636]

Nice review, just a small note: the backplate and the outrigger stands appear to be from brushed stainless steel.

[@Phloored]

Definitely not.

[@danieloherrick6332]

I think a good comparison would be with the Jean Marie Reynaud Euterpe Jubilee at $4250US. Thanks,

[@sumithran1]

Hey Simon, great review - Nice to see one from an actual owner. I'm looking for a set of pmc's for a Cyrus 82. I'm trying to get the best value for money as I got the amp for a steal on fleabay. I've been offered a set of Twenty 23's for £950, Twenty5 21's with stands for £1200. Twenty5 23's for £1750 and a new set of Twenty5 21i's with stands for £2k all in, a new set of Twenty5 23i's for £3k. All good savings but I don't want to pay too much. Looking for the best value in those deals - What's your opinion? Thanks

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thankyou. go for Twenty5 range or twenty5i. You’ll need a better amp to the Cyrus to get best from them.

[@sumithran1]

Thanks appreciate your help!

[@billywindsock9597]

They are hard to get hold of, I have ordered mine and have to wait to the end of September for my Oak pair.

[@dengdeng80]

Hola ...may I know how does this speaker compared to ATC SCM 40A? and which one you prefer ..Thanks for the great review👍🏼

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I prefer the pmcs. More insight, detail, not as smooth, bigger dispersion FOR SIZE, cheaper, brilliant bass dynamics with pmcs. Atc just need a much better room which means they can sound too rounded and little treble and too big and heavy as well

[@TheManunderwater]

For me the ATC SCM 40A wins all round. The hefty customised amplifiers makes the match much better - although it does mean you don't have the pleasure of weeks trying to find a well matched amp....... .

[@themosyannakou6893]

very well articulated :) would you say the change in crossover point made them more or less bright sounding

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Themos Yannakou thanks, answer - same

[@RennieAsh]

Changing the crossover point down 100Hz isn’t going to change their tuning too much. I wonder if a tweeter l-pad would help, or if the drivers just sound that way

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Rennie Ash It changed it a lot. Besides it’s not just one thing..... I don’t base my reviews on a theoretical classroom discussion about what should and shouldn’t happen where arguments can be presented for both sides...I base it on what I hear. Please don’t say I heard things as if you do there are other places to thrash out technical debates.

[@RennieAsh]

13th Note HiFi Reviews why are audio reviewers so uptight about their beliefs? I didn’t insinuate you said anything of the sort, further more I wasn’t even replying to you.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I’m not uptight but this is my channel and anything you post that challenges what i say without foundation is bound to be challenged - unless you weren’t?

[@pala23mj]

I have an older set….. PMC OB1 I Fantastic still to this day. Dated 2009

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

They are expensive and I wish pmc would look at prices. The new twenty 5i range was an opportunity to get green, reduce their carbon footprint and offer driver and crossover upgrade kits rather than making people buy a whole new pair for the newer model when they have the existing Twenty5 speakers.

[@jondonnelly3]

Still worth it at £4300?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Price gone up

[@oso5573]

Hello great review I had and enjoy the previous PMC twenty5.23, now I own and enjoy the new "i" series, PMC twenty5.23 i, After the burn in process, the conclusion is clear, emho, clear improvement in the response of the tweeter, better detail, transparency, but at the same time, with an even more outstanding naturalness, which makes the entire mid-high spectrum be more musical, creating fluidity and superior harmonic development, I also perceive a better scene, more stable and open ,, As for the bass range, I think it is on par, being in both cases, and taking into account its size, extraordinary, without a doubt it has deserved, in my humble opinion, the effort to access the new series "i" a greeting

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thank you very much, I found some of what you have. I was going to upgrade and then came along the Hegel H390 which got more out of my Twenty5 23s. What amps do you run out of interest. And enjoy your terrific speakers !!!

[@oso5573]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 Densen B-150 xs & Dnrg(power supply) is my amp

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

@@oso5573 can recommend increasing power when you can, and if you want to, because PMC’s love current and power. I ran mine with Cyrus mono x200, now even better Hegel H390 250 watt amp, which is a beast of an amp. I’ve run mine off 75-100w amps in reviews and it’s not a patch on the Hegel’s power , damping factor and drive.

[@oso5573]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 Thank you very much for the recommendation, I'm actually very happy with the Densen B-150 xs amp & Dnrg power supply combination, it is about 100 wts, of force and dynamics, I think that more than power what the pmc speaker needs is current and control, and in those aspects The Densen is excellently served, I have more amplifiers at home, owned or loaned, and without a doubt the best for the PMC is this B-150 xs, ((curiously, an clones audio 25ir of just "only" 25 wts offered an extraordinary sound also, although limited when it comes to reaching high sound pressure levels), a Densen dm-10,, mkii (70 wts), was an intermediate point between the two aforementioned amps, B-150xs and 25iR audio clones, I also have a cyrus 8a & Psx-r2, and being good, in my opinion, below the level of the previous three, with Rogue Cronus magnum kt90 valves, it moved very well, but the timbre was not so refined ,,, finally I have it was also an excellent but limited combination with my wonderful Marantz Ma-24 (30 Wts Clas A pure) I repeat with Densen B-150 xs & Dnrg power supply ,, in my room, 24 m2, and in normal listening it is an excellent combination

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

All I’m saying is don’t think they’ve reached their plateau just yet......

[@JG-nx3jg]

Could a naim atom run these

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Not to their best.

[@MrBravo143]

The reason why PMC only allow selected people or magazines to review is because all of the PMC speakers measure very badly. They knew it and they worried it will be exposed.

[@paulrose8967]

Own the Twenty5 23 sound amazing once they get a good few hours run under their belt I've owned from new since march and only just starting to show their true capabilities plenty of lockdown usage sound supperb with my Naim equipment amp Cd and hicap dr . Personally I see no reason to upgrade to the new model unless I was going for a larger speaker .

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Wait till you’ve owned the Twenty5 23 like I have for a four years or so, then swap to the new ones, and you’ll agree. But it is tricky with the prices. I would have liked upgrade kits.

[@sn0w8]

David Smith hi David I am inclined to agree. I have a set of twenty5.23s in my naim system and match really well. I have picked up a set of 23is for my fathers new system and have them next to my old ones at home. Everything Simon has said about the sound quality is correct. Impressive image, particularly the Center vocal image, wider soundstage and lower noise floor. Brilliant stuff, but the overall presentation is brighter. For my system the old 23s are a better match. This is with about 30 hours burn in. Hope this helps any other naim owners thinking of upgrading. I would suggest you think carefully about what you are pairing the twenty5 I range with.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Max Williams thanks for saying about my review. But are they not just spacier? not necessarily brighter. Brighter means more treble, and if that’s the case it’s extremely slight. The presentation is more open but treble is far from in your face. As I said in the video, playing devils advocate, this is not a speaker for people who like smooth systems or who are sensitive to anything they perceive as brightness or any treble. I suspect looking at the frequency response curve if any is available online , that would be pretty obvious. So trying to help both camps. I’ve always been in the camp of needing a little treble as you need it for dispersion and these speakers like the 25-23 are great in that respect. The dispersion takes over from 25-23 to make it, alone, a character of a better speaker. The reason being speakers like this don’t create the dispersion of a big kef with dual drivers, with the PMC’s small driver. But that means more accuracy and less distortion with the transmission line, it also means the use of these new drivers on the new range adding great dispersion, is a smart move on PMC’s part to cope with the bigger speaker driver brigade.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

David Smith you shouldn’t be buying without listening, ever, is my recommendation.

[@sn0w8]

13th Note HiFi Reviews hi Simon, had another good listen to the 23i speakers in my system and I am hearing more in the top end. This is at about 70-75db a weighted. Perhaps they need a little more break in to ease up. I am running a naim SN3 with hicap, Hugo TT2, mutec mc3, Innuos zen mk3, isol8 minisub axis (off your review), with a dedicated mains spur When I go back to my standard 23s there’s a slight loss of focus with the imaging, but it’s a slightly more supple sound signature and more relaxed top end which to my ears prefer. It’s all about balance. I feel my system is just on the boundary where it’s there’s tonnes of detail, but not fatiguing for long listening sessions. The 23is just tip things over the edge! Like putting on x ray specs! Once again I’m not being negative about the speakers they sound amazing, and will make people very happy, but with my combo of gear they are just a bit too much in my room with my ears. Cheers Simon, it’s great to hear your still reviewing products :)

[@Bartmanblues]

Good review I own the Twenty_23's and still like them. yes true the Twenty are smoother then the Twenty Five series which are tuned to a more tilted high frequencies. just depends what you are looking for.

[@swiss889]

Hi, what amp do you have with your PMC 2023's?

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

I run 25-23. Run with Hegel h390. See film on this channel.

[@swiss889]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 thanks will watch now, thanks for the vid, I've just bought my 2023's from a mate and I don't know what amp to get, so many out there...

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

@@swiss889 PMC’s like power so my recommendation would be to at least match the recommended power output. Hegel and Musical Fidelity are power horses and great vfm, whereas naim/Cyrus not so. Also arcam class g or class d amps will work well. Check out nord.

[@georgebartolo8856]

@@swiss889 I use a Bryston 4B SST Square. More then enough power to drive them. They are efficient but having more headroom wouldn’t hurt.

[@johnsweda2999]

Selling your old ones got anything else

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

No

[@johnsweda2999]

@@13thnotehifireviews7 when you do let us know you're in the UK