#148

It was evident well in advance that launching the highest thrust rocket in history would put an enormous strain on its launch pad. However, even SpaceX did not anticipate the extent of damage caused by the Super Heavy Starship.
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[@imapaine-diaz4451]

The booster is reusable. Looks like the launch facility isn't 😂😂

[@SpaceFlightNews]

:-D Well, you see, not even a quarter of a year has passed and the launchpad is already repaired. It's even been upgraded to prevent similar incidents from happening again. I can't wait to hear more news from Starbase. ;-)

[@ibsn87]

Looks like you were wrong

[@Study49]

Good analysis, but were these launch problems only due to the lack of a flame trench and a properly designed water deluge system at the launch pad? During the ascent phase, several engines failed, flashes were visible, and the color of the exhaust went from clear to yellow. Also, there was no stage separation and the rocket appear to be tumbling out of control. A version of this second stage must safety land humans at the South Pole of the Moon! If these problems had occurred during the launch of either Apollo 4 or STS-1 or Artemis 1, what would we have called this? There is a crater underneath the orbital launch mount! When will Space X build a complete launch pad like one use to launch SLS at the Kennedy Space Center. NASA's Stennis Space Center's test stands have flame trenches and water deluge systems. Why did Space X fail to perform a full duration test firing of the first stage at one of these test stands? Finally, was this rocket (two Saturn V's) a danger to the public at Brownsville, Texas? Debris fell onto the public. Was this launch a success? On the positive side, the first stage ignited, there was a liftoff, and it cleared Max Q! This was a test flight; now review the flight telemetry, determine the cause of the technical problems, correct these problems, retest the components, and then relaunch. Then you can explore the heavens!

[@dododostenfiftyseven4096]

What if max Q actually damaged separation

[@rj7920]

@@dododostenfiftyseven4096 that’s actually a good question other ideas I have heard are debris could have screwed with it as some debris screwed with engine aswell

[@twinkieerella]

@@dododostenfiftyseven4096 think about severe acoustic vibrations

[@karlkarlsson9126]

Most likely the debris caused a lot of damage, for example the hydraulic system that exploded short after launch, and two engines next to each-other that suggests failure from debris.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

The way SpaceX develops its rockets is very different from the methods used by established companies or space agencies. SpaceX is not afraid of crashes during tests, which will provide valuable data for further development. This allows the company to improve its products so quickly.

[@daviddeam7050]

SpaceX really needs a Reusable Orbital Launch Mount, ROLM, the output from the 33 engines basically represents 33 continuous shaped-charge jets for which their outputs are virtually unstoppable for any short distance. They need a long-vented air-tunnel to allow a free expansion of the super-heated gases to dissipate the massive amounts of energy. I am betting that it will take 2 years to rethink the pad design, build needed barriers, harden tower hardware and build a whole new well thought out structure that is certain to work as determined by experienced seniors that have worked with NASA over the years. Maybe it's time to use a Tunnel Boring machine to make Venting Tunnels that carry hot gases away from the site. I don't think a water deluge system or water-cooled plates alone will do the job, the massive amount of engine thermal energy will just vaporize all of the water and create a massive steam cloud that may create new problems. Remember that there is something like 25 tons of propellant burning per second. Methane produces ~50-55 MJ/kg which is about 20% higher than that of gasoline, just imagine the explosive force of 10-20,000 gallons per second of vaporized gasoline. I find it pretty much unimaginable!

[@SpaceFlightNews]

Yes, the power these engines produce is virtually unimaginable.

[@ibsn87]

So. You still stand by this comment???

[@imyourocd]

@@ibsn87 LOL yeah, he got that timeline wrong!

[@j121212100]

concrete spalls when heated with a blow torch. Flame temp of the Rapter is far hotter than a propane blow torch and delivers enough kick to put 5000 metric tons into orbit. I though that cloud looked more like pyroclastic flow.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

I don't think the concrete had time to get too warm. Yes, rocket engine exhaust is very hot, but here it was more about breaking the concrete, which was subject to extreme force.

[@executivesteps]

@@SpaceFlightNews Concrete is permeable to water. Moisture in the concrete and groundwater below it flashing into steam would certainly propagate rapidly as large pieces were blown away.

[@j121212100]

@@SpaceFlightNews 5980 F exhaust and a hypersonic flow capable of lifting 5000 metric tons. Fadang (or whatever it is called) didn't get too hot?

[@SpaceFlightNews]

Every material needs some time to heat up. Here, the concrete was broken in the first fractions of a second after the exhaust gases hit it full force. The fragments were then thrown away with great force. So the material didn't have enough time to heat up adequately.

[@de0509]

Launch abort system: No Self destruct: YESSS!!!! lmao

[@SpaceFlightNews]

:-)

[@TylervHayes]

I may be just an idiot, but can’t they make a deep water horizon type structure to negate all this?

[@therabbitswhisper]

is it necessary to light all of the engines at once? Light half, then get off of the pad and light the rest a few seconds later.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

The rocket is extremely heavy at launch. That's why you need the thrust of the rocket engines to push that heavy weight off the launchpad. If you only ignited half the engines, the rocket would have too little thrust and would sit on the launchpad.

[@dododostenfiftyseven4096]

That’s so scary

[@SpaceFlightNews]

On the other hand, it taught them how NOT to do things.

[@rodneylee4026]

Oh, that's not good.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

Let's wait for the results of the expert analysis.

[@jesseturner9865]

I look at this as a capitalistic perspective. "How much can we get away with?" They took quite some time to build stage 0 yet here we are. They had plenty of time.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

On the other hand, it taught them how NOT to do things.

[@hawkdsl]

That's exactly what happened. Elon is on record as saying it'll be ok, or the dumbest idea ever. It's a strange place to try to minimize spending... Now they have maybe tripled pad cost.

[@executivesteps]

@@SpaceFlightNews In other words the launch was completely useless, you can always use it as a bad example.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

Even such knowledge is important for further development.

[@hawkdsl]

@@SpaceFlightNews disagree. They can't get anything useful from a rocket that's been shot up like swizz cheese.

[@1701Larry]

OK--------... Space X needs to move the exact same High tower and Launch Platform out to a Mile off the Beach with a pier running out to it from the end of the Boca Chico Road... With an Elevated 30-foot wide set of rails running from the Construction Build sight to the existing test launch sight and then on out the Pier to the new Launch Sight a mile off the Beach... With only a couple of Sub Coolers under the roadbed at the end of the Pier safe from any exhaust or explosions... Space X would reduce all of it's Regulatory, Environmental and Launch sight Exhaust destruction problems by 99% with the Gulf serving as the Ultimate Deluge system... and Crash area Junk yard serving as New Fish habitat Reefs making for the best fishing along the Gulf Coast... Not requiring much cleanup... Multiple Off Beach Launch sights even farther off the beach out of reach of local Regulations and Restrictions would allow Space X to launch a hundred times a year instead of just 6... Making Boca Chico the Space Launch Capital of the World...

[@SpaceFlightNews]

While this proposal looks nice at first glance, it would bring with it further complications. SpaceX has already built a decent base at Boca Chica.

[@1701Larry]

@@SpaceFlightNews OK.. Yes but they can not USE the Launch Platform in it...

[@markcaserta1367]

It will be .much longer than that. The FAA will now put the whole process under a microscope. Don't expect 3 months. We may be looking at about 1 year.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

You're right. My personal guess is at least six months without a launch.

[@hawkdsl]

The FAA is not that tight... The issue is the olm/stand was completely destroyed. SpaceX will have to start all over, and it has taken three years to build the current stand. This was a major blow, and will cause serious delays.

[@tonydacruz]

...and the FAA gave them a permit? Hahahahaha

[@SpaceFlightNews]

Yes, SpaceX had all the necessary permits.

[@billyjoe3309]

Tell me you're dumb without telling me.

[@SuperMassman]

😂 HOLD ON😉,,, HEADY DUTY? "BULLSH#T.. it fell apart..they tried to build the launch pad on the cheap. The storage tanks are to close, protective barraries failed, they cut corners on the launch pad itself. To fix it properly will cost Billions and there to cheap to fix it properly. EVERYONE new the launch pad was defective from the beginning to,,, you didn't even have to be an engineer to figure that one out. They will do a cheap fix that won't work

[@SpaceFlightNews]

I don't think it will cost billions. SpaceX just tried the easier route and it turned out not to work that way. Even that lesson is valuable. The company has been taking this approach for a long time, and it is part of what has led to the success it has today.

[@TrevorSachko]

@@SpaceFlightNews What lesson? This stuff has been done so many time before and Head Twit ignored everything.

[@TLawless]

Why would we want to rebuild it when we need a new one? Which we have in Florida already. It was all junk that needed to be moved out of the way and this was just the cheapest/fastest way, and we got to learn while we did it. How many rockets have you launched? 😎

[@JonYSnoh]

Says the rocket engineer. 😂

[@raimundomartin5459]

@@SpaceFlightNews One thing is to One thing is to blow up rockets, another to destroy Stage 0 … cutting corners will not do, a real mess

[@patricklaska2409]

Why not make a launch pad of heat shield tiles.... and a taller launch pad

[@victorvandenbrink6851]

Heat tiles aren't nearly strong enough to survive the thrust of 33 raptor engines. Look what it did to the concrete underneath the launch mount. Besides heat is not the main issue. The heat exposure is quite short. A taller launchpad would probably start to cause instability issues, besides they would have to increase the height of the launch tower and aswell.

[@SpaceFlightNews]

You're right.