15. The US Air Force F-15 Pilot who Flew the F-14

The #usnavy #f14tomcat and #usairforce #f15eagle were developed only a few years apart with overlapping missions in sister services, so a rivalry was only natural.
On this episode, retired #usaf Colonel and former F-15C pilot Doug "Norton" Carney describes his exchange tour in a #usn F-14A squadron, comparing the two platforms (e.g. handling characteristics, engines) and the two service cultures (squadron environment, training mindset, etc.).

[@tzisme]

Watching your faces as you tell of your exploits, the years fall away and you are back in the cockpit, beautiful. Best part is nobody can take away those memories. As they say, "thanks for sharing."

[@6605jeremy]

I saw that f-14 in AL Asad!! It was parked with the prowlers.i was a harrier guy, I walked by it everyday for what seemed like a month, and never had the balls to go over and talk to the crew and check it out. To this day thats one of my biggest regrets..never got to see a flight worthy 14 up close...

[@marcdeyerle5336]

I was stationed at MCLF Bogue, Crash fire rescue 84 to 88. we had many visits from NAS Oceana. Loved to see the Tomcats come in for touch and goes

[@Pricklyhedgehog72]

As good to listen to as the first time. Love the Navy/Air Force comparisons and rivalry. A mate, whose former Navy, taught me the important phrase, "we're dangerously low on beer."

[@c2dvr]

A former Checkmate,enlisted,my best assignment in the Navy.1991 to 1994.

[@bearowen5480]

Great interview, guys. I really identified with Norton, because I got to see both the Naval Aviation perspective as a Marine aviator (10 years A-6, A-4), and the Air Force way as an Air National Guardsman (14 years, F-4). As a Marine, I went through USAF UPT to earn Air Force silver wings first, and then followed by an 80 hour Naval Aviator transition syllabus in the TA-4F at Cherry Point to get my gold wings. Unfortunately due to limited deck time availability because of Navy carrier commitments in the Med and Vietnam in WESPAC we Air Force trained guys never got to actually CQ. CNATRA approved the substitution of 6 traps and cats on a SATS field for CQ and NA designation. Asterisk: most military aviators today don't know that during Vietnam for five fiscal years the Air Force trained more Marine fixed wing aviators than the Navy did! With 13 month WESPAC tour turnarounds, the Navy pipeline was over capacity, so the Air Force stepped up to the plate. There were six Marines in every class, twelve classes per base, at eleven UPT bases. That meant that at any given time, there were almost 800 Marines enrolled in UPT! I was one of them. Later, assigned to fly A-6 Intruders, my squadron, VMA(AW) 224 was the first and only Marine A-6 squadron ever assigned to a carrier air wing for a Vietnam cruise. One night during workups off the California coast I had a cut pass during which my hook actually dented the rounddown! So, they kicked me off the boat and I went to Vietnam as a member of a shore based squadron, convinced that my career was over. Following that WESPAC tour, I went to the Training Command at Beeville as an A-4 instructor. While there I finally got a chance to expiate my near rampstrike sin by an outstanding CQ on the Lex, six okay, no comment, three wire traps. That was one of the high points of my combined 30-year career in commercial and military aviation. Another thing I have in common with Norton is that in the Guard I flew RF-4Cs, alone, unarmed, and scared shitless!

[@bobross7005]

Awesome story. Why were you scared shitless in the Phantom?

[@jcheck6]

Where did you fly the RF-4C? Reno, Boise?

[@bearowen5480]

@@bobross7005 That was the motto of photo reconnaissance crews. The Air Force said, "Alone, unarmed, and UNAFRAID". Because we were assigned the most dangerous mission, to photo document the post-strike bomb damage assessment (BDA) the enemy soon learned that the recce jets would come screaming in low and super fast to get the photos, so their gunners were ready for us. In North Vietnam, the RF-101 Voodoo jet squadrons for awhile had the highest shootdown rate per capita of any tactical squadrons. That's why the recce pilots changed the motto to "....and scared shitless"!

[@bearowen5480]

@@jcheck6 173rd Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, Lincoln, Nebraska

[@jcheck6]

@@bearowen5480Was at Zwei AD. Thought Lincoln would be a hard commute with the airlines. Looking back the Midwest might not have been all that bad.

[@JS-zv3yw]

Budget for 40 has been approved. But instead of ordering all 40 at once it will be 20+20. KF-21 will replace KF-5E/Fs. F-4Es that will all be retired by June will be replaced by 20 F-35As. Initial KF-21s for ROKAF calls for 40 block 1s (air-to-air) plus 80 block 2s that will have air-to-surface capabilities.

[@ts1ezrdr]

I was perusing a digital copy the 1996-98 Nimitz cruise book as I listened to the second half of this episode to see "Bio" and "Norton" back in the day when all these cool stories were taking place. Thanks for sharing again!

[@tomsanborn4156]

Thanks for this video. I was at VF 101 in the IWT shop 88-90. Anytime Baby!

[@oldpukindog2108]

Outstanding I was with VF 101 IWT 89 to 91. AT2 Foertsch

[@dasboat64]

VF-101 86-90, AME2 Final Checker/Troubleshooter, QAR 13B & 320. I remember we always had 1 or 2 Hangar Queens.😊 Loved it!😊

[@darrenschultz3572]

Another great episode. Your guest was very insightful on the some of the differences between the F-14 and the F-15 communities. And as usual, even though the episode was 1.5hrs it seemed like it was just 30 mins. Can't wait for the next one.

[@djsmith2871]

10 Percent True is an outstanding podcast. Highly under subscribed given the quality.

[@Spike_au]

Yep I agree. One of the best out there

[@soonerfrac4611]

I find it funny watching the Squids going “What? Your aircraft did all that for you?” Two beautiful birds made at about the same time, yet light years apart in tech even from the beginning. Even though I was an Air Force brat I grew up with a love of the Tom Cat. But the more I learn about it vs. the Light Gray Eagle it’s become apparent why one is still flying and the other was retired years ago.

[@dandlb]

A big part of the problem, as you may know, is that the Navy developed the F-14 "on the cheap." That's why it had a radar from the early 1960s and unsatisfactory engines. I'm not complaining, this is just reality; the Navy aviation budget had to compete with subs and ships. (I know the USAF fighter budget had to compete with transports and bombers.) Considering everything, it's even more amazing that Grumman delivered such an impressive aircraft!

[@user-oe3lh9fh3e]

Your completely wrong on why the big fighter was retired! It had everything to do with Iran getting parts and nothing to do with what you think!!

[@AaaBbb-ff1pn]

the difference is that upgrade to tomcat came too late. It could have become the navy f15e with the bombcat ... and the big bird need a lot of maintanace

[@scoshyg5133]

I think you have the light years technologically apart, even at the same time backwards, though. For over the entire first decade of their concurrent existence, there’s nobody that claims the eagle was more advanced technologically. It lacked a BVR weapon and it’s radar could not see the Tomcat as quickly as the Tomcat could see the The tomcat continued to have superior technology throughout most of its existence, including Rover When tomcats were upgraded, they became more precise, strike platforms than eagles for a short period of time and hence you had the bomb cat But back to the beginning, the Tomcat had a dink that the eagle lacked it had the capability to track many more targets at once and share that information passively When you look at the model D it was more advanced than any F 15 C that existed with an infrared search and track system, and the targeting system actually was adopted by the tomcat and worked better on the Tomcat resulting in greater zoom on the displays for more precision guidance Just in order to have a ground strike capability, they had to build an entirely new airframe whereas the Tomcat that was always built as the more flexible aircraft could do both

[@user-rm6gc2hx2c]

What a blast! Fun to hear from beginning to end!

[@marcosavila8215]

this is so good, the stories...tx guys for this and for your service

[@maximillianvermontsuperbik2624]

You guys are great, a riot. ! Thank you.

[@vspecnurr34]

Brilliant relaxed laid back interview with lots of laughs, awesome to watch 👌👍

[@JC-kk5wg]

EXCELLENT show and pilot experiences. Very well done show and pilots comments.

[@carlfischer4163]

Really enjoyed this. 😁😁❤️❤️

[@craigdillon3974]

This was incredibly cool.

[@hoghogwild]

I can only imagine the discussions occurring as this USAF F-15C guy on short final for his first Tomcat recovery at the boat. . Probably quite the disappointment to many of the crows on "Vulture's Row", though no one ever wants to see any servicemember injured or killed, a healthy dose of embarrassment was certainly on the menu, but Mr. Carney didn't didn't order. He snagged a wire, good show for sure and represented the USAF with style. Can you imagine the "hub-bub" surrounding a USAF F-15C guy coming aboard a carrier and flying Tomcats scoring the first ever Phoenix kill involving a USN Tomcat? While it certainly would do interesting things to the US interservice rivalry, at least there would have been a confirmed Phoenix kill in US service. The way in which the 2 AIM-54 simply fell off the lead's and his Wingman's jets (2 separate missiles failed off of 2 separate jets, launched off of separate cats due to the same redshirt "ordie" arming BOTH of the jet's missiles incorrectly-this led to the term-Phoeeny Bomb and also led to some procedural changes about whom could arm F-14 Phoenix missiles). While I am a firm believer that some of our best weapons never have to be employed, it sure would have been nice for a Phoenix or 2 to have scored a kill on one of the MiG-25s on that day(Jan-5/1999. of Southern Watch) That MiG-25 pilot had a LOT of USN and USAF weaponry employed in his direction. At least 2 AIM-54 from USN Tomcats and at least 4 more AIM-120 from USAF F-15s were fired and all were unsuccessful. Kind of a limp-wristed way for the mighty Phoenix to go out, esp. with the Iranians apparently having such success with the missile and with them just having the early A variant available. The follow on variants were much better with impressive NEZ(No Escape Zones) which Bio alluded to when discussing Phoenix with other F-15 guys. From having MiGs turning and running away after detecting a couple sweeps from the Tomcats AWG-9 radar, with their ground controllers screaming over the radios for the MiGs to get out of the area as those jets are American F-14s. This greatly contrasts 8 years later having these 1000 pound missiles simply fall off the jet into the sand, later being retrieved by SOF assets That lack of a US AIM-54 Phoenix kill, and the manner in which they didn't function when called upon during late "SOUTHERN WATCH, will always stick in my armchair naval aviator crop til the day I die. Great show gentlemen. Pro Patria PS Anyone have any idea what AIM-120 variant was in use by USAF F-15Cs during 1999 Southern Watch sorties? The AMRAAM officially entered service just after Desert Storm in later 1991.

[@glockfan87]

Great program! F-4 and F-15 fan

[@graveydayvee]

That was epic!!!🍻🍻🍻

[@Watchandcutgearchannel]

I really love this podcast.. great topic and great guest… I still feel after all that I can’t tell which Aircraft he liked better… 😂

[@dougstitt1652]

Great listen

[@wallymoose24]

Crunch, Wally. Loved the story about Pink and Trigger! Glad a Swordswallower JO had such a great career. Can’t believe you have a Tomcat Podcast. I figured you guys all rolled to Hornets after TopGun.

[@c2dvr]

I think both F-14 and the F-15 compliment each other.Truely great planes.

[@RAYROTHSTEIN66]

From what I took away, the f-14 was like flying a jet powered brick on hydraulic control. The f-15 had more power and a brain to take over the pilots lack of inputs. Which makes sense, the f-14 was designed to just carry a massive missle and be deployed from a carrier, the f-15 was designed to be an air supiorioty machine with no plans to be be a carrier based plane.

[@dandlb]

@@RAYROTHSTEIN66 As many people do, you are understating the F-14's mission. THE TOMCAT WAS THE US NAVY'S AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER. Yes, it had to carry the Phoenix, but it was _no_ " designed to just carry a massive missile." In addition to the AWG-9/AIM-54, the Tomcat included all of the maneuverability that Grumman could design into it, and other features that were important for a dogfighters: large horizontal stabilizers for good pitch authority, a large canopy for excellent visibility, a 20mm gun, dogfight modes on the radar, and more. Squadrons spent a lot of their flight time on ACM training. The F-14 mission during war would include fighter sweeps, escorting attack aircraft over hostile territory, and other FIGHTER missions. Air superiority, to use the term of the period. I don't mean to engage you personally, but you gave me an opening to make this point.

[@scoshyg5133]

The eagle is not fly by wire And no, the tomcat was not designed to carry a massive missile and be deployed from a carrier. It was designed to be an air Superior aircraft first It was a direct replacement for the phantom

[@No-turbo]

Great talk guys. Enjoyed it start to finish. Holy crap I had to edit because the last guy said dang near the exact thing lol. You must be doing something right.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Great minds think alike!

[@timblack6422]

This Grunt loves the stories!

[@miletello1]

56:22 did you tell em they didn’t really solo 😂😂

[@jcheck6]

Norton had it made in AF UPT having flown the Recce F-4 since it had a stick in the back seat. In my UPT class we had two former WSOs, one with 3 Mig kills, and finished #1 & #2. Not sure why Norton went to Nav school first.

[@atlclutch]

What a great episode, I'd love to talk with you guys on my podcast.

[@georgesykes394]

It was my job as an AO to make sure Tomcats were armed. I salute the Men and Women in other rates like AMS, ABF, AD, AT, AE who kept them fueled and properly maintained. Bottom line if the Naval Aviator knows what he's doing and the aircraft is well maintained, he's going to give the other guy he's Dogfighting problems.

[@SAINTCR33P]

Wonderful episode guys! :) Just wondering, what is the music in your intro?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks. The music is what our musician, Jaime Lopez, created when I requested an “80s-style pop / rock song with hints of ‘Top Gun’ for a show about the F-14 Tomcat.”

[@wastedapathy22]

@@FighterPilotPodcast I love the intro and outros!

[@SAINTCR33P]

@@FighterPilotPodcast Thanks for letting me know!

[@nathanfisher1826]

Thanks Gentlemen 😊

[@jamielancaster01]

Love Virginia Beach

[@fillyphiel2212]

I don’t care what anyone says…. You guys are cool. Thank you for your service! Semper-Fi

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

...wait, what do people say?

[@dandlb]

@@FighterPilotPodcast 🤣

[@modscientist9793]

CAG's watching the danger channel !😂😂😂😂

[@nimaiiikun]

He looks a lot like Coach George Karl too!

[@hoghogwild]

KC-10 retired this year? Like plugging a big soft pillow.

[@AlteFleiger]

30 min into the episode and we hear Zero info to compare the two airplanes.... ?

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Lots of foreplay.

[@maximillianvermontsuperbik2624]

I notice you didn't have to pull the A+ or the D card. :0)

[@mandyfox9376]

We need brand new episodes please like episodes of each F 14 squadron with a Pilot and RIO telling us about the history of each squadron plus I want here more about the VX Squadrons like the Playboy F 14 Tomcat that be cool Fly Navy 💙👍💙

[@modscientist9793]

Did he get to wear both wings of gold and Air Force wings?

[@michaelrunnels7660]

It's interesting to hear about all the "high end" comfort stuff the Air Force had over the Navy because there are a few story on the internet about Navy guys trying to impress Air Force guys by giving them "Swag". It always seemed that what the Navy thought of as something special was considered normal everyday stuff to every Air Force guy.

[@davidkoon767]

AIR FORCE FLEW EA 6B DESERT STORM

[@davidkoon767]

VF32 SAILOR QUESTION THE F18 IN DESERT . STORM ...FULLY LOADED HORNET SHOT DOWN A MIG21 .WHAT IF IT WAS A IRAQ MIG29. HAVE TO GIVE THE MIG29 THE ADVANTAGE???

[@kentgregory3299]

Maybe MAYBE, if an American was flying the Mig-29. Otherwise highly doubtful.

[@brandonknight4709]

Q

[@MultiCconway]

It drives me crazy when the WOKE influence is so strong that grown men (fighter pilots) cannot use the term Hangar Queen! You can tell he is AF because he eats 'burgers' not Sliders.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Yep, it's a sad world we've inherited.