154 | Jeffrey Selingo: COVID Was Supposed to Change College. Why Didn’t It?

[@Semelem]

Covid ruined college for me, isolating for 3 of my 6 semesters killed all of my social ties, networking, and pre-career plans

[@Enginshim]

Social ties and networking is all college is really. Otherwise you are just taking classes.

[@Semelem]

@@Enginshim yup, that’s literally all it was, just writing things down and regurgitating it back into a computer. that’ll be $30,000 please.

[@direwolf6234]

absolutely... learning to work in small groups is the best prep for your future...

[@hudson2441]

Because Money! Their sports programs, coaches , administrators, and buildings are too expensive to quit. They need to trim all that stuff out that’s not directly about education and no one who is not there teaching something doesn’t get a six figure salary. Plus there should be no requirement classes that have nothing to do with your major.

[@enotdetcelfer]

You mean the institution that required people to purchase hardcover later-versions of the professors' books well into the digital age didn't take an opportunity to move into the 21st century of content delivery? I for one am shocked.

[@michaelr1225]

a lot of memorable and insightful points made in this one, had to go back and listen to it twice

[@jonhepworth1674]

I guess I am old-school. A screen is not a replacement for the in-person interaction at the campus. Screen experience is different from standing 6 feet away from another human.

[@SwiftySanders]

I’m technically Gen X (barely) and I believe the government should be able to pay down some portion of the student debt people have…like say everything over 5k gets paid off. The problem is that the debt keeps growing if you don’t start paying it off now. That’s a ton of money. Leaving things as they are leaves people in a financially unstable state. Not good for getting them to take the risks involved with education and trying to better themselves.

[@firstlast-cs6eg]

We need free higher education. Not government money to pay for private education but purpose built educational places funded by tax payer dollar, just like grade school and highschool. Also I don't think these educational places should be reserving seats for legacy and athletic. Neither of these categories has anything to do with educating.

[@frederickmiles8815]

Corruption and money - the beast must be fed.

[@dtaylor091489]

the most obvious way to solve the “HR Problem” and the credential inflation problem is for employers to simply give out aptitude tests and simply hire those that score the highest.

[@harivatsaparameshwaran4174]

American colleges are an amusement park. Its like a 4-6 year long vacation from the real world after which you start with a negative income and don't have the necessary skills to get a job.

[@direwolf6234]

attend a state school & study engineering...

[@hecticenergy1233]

Fix High School. College bound should do 11 and 12 at community college or at least get college credit without AP. No reason to take algebra or foreign language twice. The WGU model could help with this for test takers. Tradesmen bound should begin internships and the like. Putting people through college for 4 years unnecessarily just lowers our national productivity. Obviously some careers need it, and there are huge benefits for networking with others in your future field; but the vast majority of our population shouldn’t require it. The focus on having college for a life long career should be adjusted. Industry is changing rapidly (most anyway), and many will shift out of what their degree was in to pursue other endeavors. We should not be asking k-12 students “what do you want to be when you grow up?” But rather, give them the opportunity to find out what they excel in, and allow them to sort from there. It doesn’t have to be a forever career, but something they’ll do well in for a while until they decide to shift.

[@spiralflame88]

Ever since the mid 2000s, college has pretty much made social networking a requirement as you're working on your degree. If all you have is your degree and have made no social connections, you most likely would have been better off have you not gone to college because you also have that money pit you dug yourself into.

[@ianbelanger7459]

This may underestimate the extent and depth of the networking problem. College education has been a gatekeeping system since the modern global world began post WW II. Many of the actions of students, parents and colleges make a lot more sense once it is understood that most are concerned with moving or staying in the top 20% of Americans. Students know what they need for good jobs. Parents have a good idea of what types of colleges bosses like. No parent would choose another college over Harvard, Princeton or Cal Tech if given the option. Colleges know that their endowments (where all there money is made) come from the top 5% of Americans that in the main go to college out of high school. Adult schooling is high volume low margin because in general those people will not be part of the top 10% let alone the top 5%.

[@jamessilveria5148]

You guys should have Michael Malice on to talk about this issue. Very different perspective. Would be fun to watch!

[@ryane1383]

They do not shift outside the overton window of the establishment

[@davidcwitkin6729]

What is so horrible about forgiving the first/worst $10k of student debt for everyone? Why not give the economy a jump-start by giving people a small leg up? This small amount would actually set free the poorest or oldest workers who still have some student debt while not excusing the massive debt-loaders and letting us settle the broader question eventually?

[@ryane1383]

I am all for the money printer going wild, because I have bitcoin, but the people you're talking to still think the dollar will hold value long term

[@Simba365]

Why should they because at the end of the day its not the governments money its gonna be burdened on the tax payers. Why would you borrow money with no intentions of paying it back.

[@normcorecowboy6863]

Gov created problems don’t get fixed by Gov solutions. Pay their loans off yourself if you truly care. I lost money on a football game last weekend, can you cover me? If not, what’s the difference? I thought I was going to win!

[@FloridaMan12345]

Memories of moving into GWU in 1987. $30,000 and all you can drink (so said the T-shirt). It must be up to $100,000 per year by now! Thanks for mentioning GW Saagar.

[@jessicajones657]

As an elder millennial who saw tuition DOUBLE per semester in 2 years I learned it was all a game of of who is in the club. I fortunately landed in an apprenticeship and worked my way up to where I'm now capped because the HR problem (sense i don't have a 4+ yr degree im usually booted out of their metrics even if im helping people a level above me). George Carlin said it best, It's a big club and we ain't in it. It's too expensive, not all jobs we value should come from university and there are basic classes that should be taught in high school so college level courses are distinctive of the degree one's pursuing. I find it sheer insanity to get into debt for "social experience". That path has led to adult babies who have brought that thinking into very dangerous real world positions. Proof you can't manufacture good leadership.

[@dmp1962]

My Son had to do his senior year at home due to covid, definitely was short changed on the college experience, you can not get that back

[@direwolf6234]

beats being drafted to iraq...

[@quantumking1724]

My college just shut down and is officially moving online tomorrow. Fml I thought getting that double Moderna was supposed to count for something

[@Moneybags78]

My school reinstated a mask mandate literally 3 days before it started up, bs man.

[@Enginshim]

To cut costs, maybe you should just take the courses you need for your degree. Why should an accounting major take English and history classes

[@8BitNaptime]

Because you're not a robot. If that's all an accountant is, just replace them all with computers. That should have already happened by the mid-1970s in any case.

[@Enginshim]

@@8BitNaptime it pads the bill.

[@philosophicalthirstworms6645]

@@8BitNaptime Everything you learn in undergrad English courses you can learn in an afternoon. A degree is a pathway to a job. I can handle my own personal development just fine on my own time.

[@8BitNaptime]

@@philosophicalthirstworms6645 I can handle my accounting myself as well.

[@philosophicalthirstworms6645]

@@8BitNaptime That's perfectly fine! At least you are not mandated to spend tens of thousands of dollars on accounting courses in order to do something completely unrelated.

[@calebkeen8967]

Spoke with a friend who went to Harvard why they can't educate more undergraduates and he claimed there's no way to give a larger # the Harvard experience, which is dependent on packing the most ambitious and very smart young people into close-quarters and forcing them to live with each other and compete against each other for four years. If you make the applicant pool bigger you necessarily dilute the physical and sociological conditions necessary for making Harvard a great educational experience for attendees.

[@ryane1383]

The entire point of the Ivy league is to keep the poors out. most of Harvard is trust fund babies makes friends with other trust fund babies and preparing to destroy the working class through corporatism.

[@calebkeen8967]

@@ryane1383 The friend who I mentioned in my comment came from a middle-class home in Worcester. Anecdotes don't make data but your blanket statement is wrong.

[@MatthewGraham027]

You just made a nightclub argument. The reason that nightclubs don't expand is because they want only the coolest people inside, essentially what Harvard is arguing about education.

[@direwolf6234]

see the new york times wedding section ... harvard lawyers in love ...

[@calebkeen8967]

@@MatthewGraham027 to follow your metaphor the club that accepts the four thousand most beautiful people so that they can dance with and fuck each other sounds exactly like the kind of club I’d like to spend time in. What’s your point?

[@direwolf6234]

this conversation was too focused on the 'need' for loans and not on why we need them... until college costs are radically reduced this debate will be an 'endless war' of a different sort...

[@adtastic1533]

The problem with US colleges is all the superfluous BS. I went to school in Australia and really it's just about wonks doing research and a bunch of students going to class and getting a degree. No campus social programs, no lifestyle experience, and definitely no running of multiple professional level sports programs. It's no wonder people pay out the nose with so much shite going on you don't need

[@DocDanTheGuitarMan]

Higher Ed doesn’t change because students had no choice. They had to pay exorbitant tuition.

[@smalltalkbigthoughts6558]

I wish the discussion had focused on how these Titanic's are going to avoid the icebergs. How are the egghead academics going to out compete the internet?

[@bocajrs7628]

Time to be honest. A key reason students attend universities is to have 4 more years of being immature and childish. Universitiies know this and can charge the same whether courses are online or in person. Most students don't really care about learning anything, but want the fun things for 4 years and get a diploma that is more about who you met or the reputation of the university. If universities cared about education, they would charge reasonable tuition rates. If the government were not involved, the universities would have no choice but to charge reasonable rates and would be forced to offer degrees that actually lead to jobs and careers. And do more to help their graduates get jobs.

[@direwolf6234]

clearly you were not a science or engineering major

[@leerichards2313]

If we got the government out of the student loan business, the reorganization would be profound. If you think where they will start cutting costs, you can see how that reform will happen.

[@bocajrs7628]

I agree. Universities are the reasons for most of the financial problems of students.

[@jaredlewis8689]

College has a lot of intangibles. Kind of life belonging to a family/community. Football games, other sports, libraries with legit so many resources. Expensive yeah but at 23 I’m in no rush to work, I have my whole life to do that.

[@TerryManitoba]

IT IS pronounced depoliticized - NOT - DepoWiticised Bolled over - NOT - bowed over policy - NOT - powicy call - NOT - cow If you wish to become a real journalist You must learn how to speak clearly & not how you chew the cud on the street with your homeboys. Go back to school - and learn a thing or two. Get the marbles out of your mouth...Son