164: Mastering Vocal Compression: Unleashing the Power of 1176 and LA-2A Compressors

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

🎧 Listen to Inside The Mix here: www.synthmusicmastering.com/podcast 🎥 Watch Inside The Mix episodes here: kzbin.info/aero/PLKYajovwzov15GcPzIInQbZmB0zQlTY5E

[@sin_phany_tv]

The combo has been out for a very long time and it’s amazing with vocals, on the 1176. I would back off and hit anywhere no more than -7 or negative 8DB and on the L2 a anywhere from -3 to -4 amazing demonstration by the way.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Indeed, it has, and I slept on it for far too long 😆 I agree with your comment. On reflection, in episode post-production, the gain reduction is a touch to aggressive. I'm glad you enjoyed the demonstration 🤜🤛

[@user-uu2xy3se6c]

Greetings, I won’t lie these are my favourite compressors and I use them on vocals for tracking and for mixing vocals

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Greetings! Thanks for sharing. You're certainly not alone. It's a fantastic combo.

[@martijn_thatsme]

Manually adjusting single peaks of the waveform first (both up and down) using your ears and eyes will vastly improve the process. Both compressors have to work way to hard now. If time is limited you could use something like Waves Vocal Rider to do it automatically but manual adjustment preserves the human touch. Hopefully soon you will discover the Tube-Tech CL-1B as well. Cheers

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Agreed. I describe just that at the end of the video. Thanks for highlighting the importance of using clip gain or gain automation before hitting the compressor. I'll add the CL-1B to my list, thanks for the tip.

[@LateNightAlexx]

how about watching the full video before commenting lol

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

@@LateNightAlexx 👆👆👆

[@bildjan]

I would automate the gain before sending it to the compressor.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

A great idea. I mention the use of clip gain to take the load off the compressor at the end of the video 🙌

[@kristiyandimitrov8711]

Just perfect! Thanks a lot Marc for this tutorial!!!

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

That's great, I'm glad it's of use. Keep an eye out for a follow-up video in a couple of weeks 😁

[@DonnTarris]

I've set up Felt Tip's Sound Studio as my external audio editor in Logic Pro. For a vocal performance like this, I'll just open the track in that software and edit the envelopes of words or whole phrases using the "Fade Special" tool. Very fast to work with and no worry about attack and release times. In "the old days", we'd ride the fader on a vocal or instrument track, it was just part of the mix "performance". There is compression already on this vocalist's long held note, you can see it in the wave form. They may have overloaded the signal chain while recording. To focus on further compression of that section, to my ears, just accentuates the sound of the compression more. I found that riding overall gain worked better for this track, rather than using any compression or limiting. One could then apply just enough compression to keep nuances heard while sitting within the overall mix. At the time compressors and limiters were first used, they were an automated way to manage overall level on program material being broadcast. In the 60s, these tools began to be used creatively in producing recordings, but the ones used for controlling program material for broadcast were still designed to be as transparent as possible, over a wide variety of program material. Today, I may use a compressor or limiter during recording, as I can't ride the signal fast enough to compensate during that task. Once the track is recorded, I prefer using the method I describe above before reaching for a compressor/limiter - it's easy to edit the volume over time on the computer. I'd suggest doing that, along with adjusting eq, prior to using a compressor/limiter.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Thank you for taking the time to provide such detailed feedback.

[@grgdfgdfgdfgdfgfdgdf8606]

Since I started working with vocals (trance music) I use Waves 1176 and L2. I'm extremly happy with them: First I use the 1176 with -4db gain reduction, 8:1 ration and fast attack & release for catching the peaks. Second it's getting compressed with the L2 and -7db GR and 4:1 ratio. (Obviously settings depends on material.) (Of course there is more in the complete vocal chain, but it's a great start! 🙂

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

I think I used the Waves 76 version many moons ago or that might've been a dream 😄. I'm pivoting into EDM music and it's great to read your experience. Thanks for sharing!

[@bigheartsmolpen]

L2 limiter? Or you mean LA2A?

[@grgdfgdfgdfgdfgfdgdf8606]

@@bigheartsmolpen It is "Waves CLA-2A", emulation of the LA-2A, I guess...

[@djvictornova9188]

Great Demonstration , Thx for sharing

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

You're welcome, friend. I'm glad you found it useful.

[@PrincipalAudio]

I usually go 2A into VSC-2 so that it levels the audio before doing the faster VCA comp so it doesn't squish it too hard/too fast. This means you get less gain reduction and less pumping on the faster compressor if you do the slower levelling first. I don't really know the rationale for doing the faster compression first. Haven't found an explanation for it yet. It is a great comp combo. 👌

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Thanks for sharing and agreed, it's a great combo. I use the FET compressor first to catch/tame peaks before using the slower optical compressor to smooth and "colour" the audio. Admittedly, I use clip gain to even the dynamics before hitting a compressor. But that's the great thing about audio, there's multiple ways to achieve a similar outcome.

[@indyawichofficial1346]

Seen LA2 into 1176 as well, never worked for me much, was more in the common use - boxes set other way around, i.e as first a quick FET 1176 to catch peaks, used in polite manner, followed by LA2A reducing from -3 to -7 or more dB, smoothing the stuff, bringing density to the vocal, weight or dimension, - all of this is often followed by another box or two on the vox bus to smash and squeeze the ish out of it.

[@AndredeBruinSoundengineer]

Using the same 1176 and LA-2A chain here, getting her 2,5Khz slam on the ears out of the way I put a TDR Nova before compression and notch out that horrible frequencie with the Nova dynamic EQ.. Makes life easier and less tweaking with the compression chain. Makes the mix feel more dynamic instead of compressing it to ..........TDR Nova is free and there's a paid version with side-chain.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Wise words, my friend. Thanks for sharing the tip. I'm a big fan of TDR Nova. The TDR Kotelnikov compressor and TDR Prism frequency analyser are great, too!

[@JamaikiTv]

The free version has sidechain too

[@PawFromTheBroons]

For the sake of trying and not paying up front, Analog Obsession 1176 is awesome and free. So is his LA2A...

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Thanks for sharing, I'll definitely check out Analog Obsession!

[@lenardashton4217]

The best thing is these two plug ins are now compatible with Pro Tools. Back when I first got them in 2021 while I was mixing a project they weren’t. However I took them seriously when I opened it up on another project I had running in Reaper. I really like their Pultec too.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

​@@lenardashton4217​ that's great and 🙏 to a fellow Reaper user! What's your favourite Pultec(esque) plugin?

[@indyawichofficial1346]

Best free LA2 box plug in - TLS 1295 Lea in my opinion - give it a try. Sounds really nice. Molot / Molotok free comps are absolute beasts as well. All 3 standing their own next to those at the top of the food chain!!!

[@billesposito2112]

Id clip gain those transients a bit first. The compressors will respond even better if the waveform is a little more consistent . I set it opposite with the Attack and release. I'm halfway through the video do we hear it in context? I used an 1176 and two LA-2As on a Chicago tune I did and it sounded amazing. The vocals just grabbed you in that tune. Subbed and Liked

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Thanks for the insight, and I agree 👍 I mentioned clip gain at the end of the video. It's been mentioned a few times, so I recorded a follow-up video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5bOlZithreerMk

[@texasrwayne31]

I believe your knobs for attack and release are backwards. The lower values indicate faster attack and release time. They need to go counterclockwise if you want the compressor to respond faster.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Check out this official UAD 1176 blog post: "Note that the Attack and Release controls of the 1176 work in the opposite direction of many other compressors (i.e. turning the knobs toward their higher values actually shortens attack and release times)" www.uaudio.com/blog/1176-collection-tips/ What are your thoughts?

[@leadfoot64]

You really should stay out of it if you don't know what your talking about.. and especially if this offends you. lol

[@devon-graves-studio-D]

I'm in the camp that uses these two in the opposite order. I record into the real analog ones. I use the optical first at 3:1 (Limit, on an LA-2A is 10:1 actually.) Since the Optical is slower, I use it first to smooth out the signal. Then I hit the 1176 actually at 20:1 to nail down the peaks that escape the Optical. You can see it in action here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6ivoImadrSal6Msi=tZ6_x6eARr-R4d9H

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing, Devon. That's the great thing about audio, there's more than one way to achieve an objective. I'm always experimenting with the order of dynamic processing. Is the 10:1 limit referring to the hardware version? The UAD LA-2A manual quotes "When set to Limit, the ratio is approximately infinity:1. However, the compression ratios are nonlinear and frequency dependent, so these figures are not absolute" help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/articles/19378009641748-LA-2A-Tube-Compressor-Manual

[@BenDover-n7e]

Thst waveform says one thing to me - clip gain b4 anything else .

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

I agree and share the same words towards the end of the video 🙌

[@BenDover-n7e]

Ah yes I stopped watching at the 11 min mark. My apologies...

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

@@BenDover-n7e no apologies necessary, my friend. Thanks for checking out the video!

[@radosmusic3308]

а разве атака у 1176 не 1 должна быть? или 2 мс, слишком сильно задавили

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

An attack of 1 is the slowest attack and would let the initial transient through. Here I wanted to catch the loud peaks with a fast attack (all the way right).

[@personalwatching9312]

Print that then run it through a la2a in limit mode again. You're welcome. ;) :)

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Challenge accepted. Thanks for sharing :)

[@personalwatching9312]

@MarcMatthewsProducer you're most welcome mate. Hope your channel is doing well. Thanks for the video. Also, if you ever get your hands on a real la, curious to know your thoughts. I have one and it's just gorgeous.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

@personalwatching9312 Thanks, buddy, that's much appreciated. The channel is going well, slow but steady progress. I'll be sure to post my experience the next time I get my hands on a physical LA-2A. I think the last time was at Modern World Studios (Tetbury), but it was well over 10 years ago, and I could be wrong 😂

[@cekirdekci32]

Guys like this who never used la2a with an 1176 and dont know gain automation are on youtube teaching these.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

Thanks for highlighting the importance of gain automation. Toward the end of the video, at 13:51, I describe the process of using clip gain or gain automation before using the compressor.

[@fookoo567]

same old stuff lol

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

I bore myself sometimes

[@lemonaudio]

If you use next time real vocals instead of AI, would be nice. Thanks

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

I would love to agree, but I can assure you that the vocals were performed and recorded by a real-life human.

[@lemonaudio]

@@MarcMatthewsProducer That´s interesting, it sound´s reeeally, even in the beginnin the "raw" and non compressed version, heavily digitally distorted and noisy, simillar to AI vocals. But thanks for prooving my ears wrong.

[@cekirdekci32]

This is bad. Use gain automation guys.

[@MarcMatthewsProducer]

It's absolutely awful, but I do describe the use of clip gain or gain automation at 13:51 in this video.

[@skullsession]

Seems impossible to know if this was a good move or a bad one since we never got to hear it in context with the rest of the mix.

[@leadfoot64]

I disagree, I like the sound of compression and the character and harmonics it creates.