180 MHz?! FNIRSI DPOX180H Digital Phosphor Dual Channel Handheld Oscilloscope Review/Teardown

[@emraharslan7361]

Hello OWON I am undecided between HDS2102S and FNIRSI DPOX180H, which one is better, I would be glad if you can help me. Thanks.

[@Sentinel-1]

Kerry, can I ask you to add another great test to your bandwidth tests? If you have a signal generator capable of outputing a correct square wave with a frequency of tens of megahertz, then as a rule of thumb the oscilloscope under test should correctly display this signal at a frequency of up to 1/10 of its bandwidth. If the declared bandwidth corresponds to reality, then the square wave will be displayed correctly with a flat top/bottom without spikes, over and undershoots. It would also be great to see a comparison of all the oscilloscopes you currently have in this test, especially very cheap ones.

[@radiotests]

Kerry you are usually shooting half a million outcof my league with gear. But in this case you have honestly reviewed gear many of us can only afford. A heartfelt appreciation and mad respect for the reputation you deserve on YT.

[@alessandronardin5307]

Qq 3:39 un 1

[@EngineeringAllAround]

On some high frequencies this scop's capture reacts on user hand movement, at least with supplied probes.

[@davidahmad6090]

Yet agian, great video sir, very informative, thankyou.

[@injoelsgarage3934]

Thank you Kerry. I'm on the fence on this scope. Thanks for your time and knowledge.

[@davidh1187]

There is a menu option to save settings.

[@alklapaxida850]

i think that the cornerstone or even the central pillar of any discussion about test equipment is "COST" as that defines the very nature of what you your going to get and at this price this hand held unit is brilliant !

[@battlecoder]

This is a great unit, but I would say that the sample rate is a bit insufficient for "actual" 180 Mhz. You get ~2.5 sample points per wave cycle, which, yes, is above Nyquist frequency, but typically you would need 4 or 5 samples for a somewhat-accurate waveform reconstruction, so it's quite possibly doing heavy sine interpolation. There's many scopes out there with 2x the sample rate (1GSa/s) yet they barely claim 100Mhz bandwidth, which makes the 180Mhz rating a lot more suspicious. Having said that, being able to capture and show a wave anywhere near 200Mhz is WILD for this price range, even if it's not accurate in amplitude or features. Regarding frontend gain, I can't tell hardware-wise, but I wouldn't discard the device having some software gain adjustment to compensate for "expected" attenuation as frequency increases, because in my tests I also observed an increased amplitude as frequency went up, which is kinda the opposite of what happens in my other scopes. I truly appreciate the in depth review and teardown. I was eagerly waiting for someone with more experience and more adequate gear than what I have, to review this product.

[@madcalm2024]

DPO may have 2 times as lower sample rate compared with similar visualization quality as compared to DSO.

[@marat719]

I think most good oscilloscopes use 5-10 times difference between sampling rate and analog bandwidth to be sure all high frequency components are suppressed enough to not be visible after frequency mirroring. They make amplifier with flat frequency response in declared range and need some extra frequency range to lower response maybe 40 db.

[@andymouse]

Excellent review Kerry and do you know what ? well, at less than one hundred quid I think I will look at this further as it seems like a good thing to have around at that money. Will you review it some more ? I don't have any questions straight off the bat but will come back and post them if I do...cheers.

[@KerryWongBlog]

If any questions do come up, please let me know!

[@EngineeringAllAround]

The review is not complete. Fnirsi is famous for lying about specs and using equivalent sample techniques! It should be tested at 5ns horisontal in single trigger mode with random signal, comparing the capture with true high sample rate oscilloscope. Stroboscopic (equivalent) sample technique allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals.

[@TheDefpom]

I think @7:30 the bandwidth is not actually usable, as the sample rate appears to be insufficient, as observed by the obvious jitter.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

And that's the question if the sample rate is realtime or equivalent. Fnirsi is famous for lying about specs and using glitchy equivalent (stroboscopic) sample techniques! It allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals, but has many disadvantages.

[@KerryWongBlog]

@TheDefpom, this is most likely due to the interleaved sampling from both ADCs.

[@user-dz1nm6ed4y]

А если разобрать аппарат и посмотреть на элементарную базу, тогда всё встанет на свои места. Подумайте.Запустите модулируемый сигнал и проверьте истинность показаний. Пока это игрушка, а после устранения недостатков имеет место быть для простых радиолюбителей. Для профи-это игрушка.

[@5cent]

Профи берут настольные осцилографы и от других фирм. Естественно что карманные для любителей

[@arieiwakuni2251]

Kerry thanks for professional review

[@Sobakin76]

At last someone do bw test with proper termination, thanks!

[@recursoseninternet]

It seems like a good oscilloscope, but many users keep complaining that it doesn’t work for digital measurements or for simply measuring square waves or complex waveforms because the vertical lines disappear. Fnirsi has already released a firmware update to try to fix the issue, but it seems like the problem still persists. Many claim that it is normal because it is Phosphor, but it seems inconvenient for square waves

[@hflorin07]

Hi. If you save the settings, you will not lose it. You need to save the settings for this little device... 😀

[@KerryWongBlog]

Yes, however most scopes do this automatically when powering off.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

Fnirsi is famous for lying about specs and using equivalent sample techniques! You should test 5ns horisontal in single trigger mode with random signal, compare the capture with true high sample rate oscilloscope.

[@KerryWongBlog]

The measurement of the avalanche generator waveform is such an example. As you saw the signal was not the cleanest due to the interleaving ADC design, but it does confirm it has the bandwidth it claims to have.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

No, single pulse would be, but not repetative.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

Stroboscopic (equivalent) sample technique allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

​@@KerryWongBlog Stroboscopic (equivalent) sample technique allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals. Please, test single capture non-repetitive signal.

[@EngineeringAllAround]

@@KerryWongBlog ​here is the proof of equivalent sampling in the 180H: on the eevblog new-toy()-scope-fnirsi-dpox180h-claimed-180mhz500msps-(may-2023) msg4932493 "4 x 125 MS/s in interleave is 500 MS/s, but their WAV file taken at 5 ns/div contains waveform with 5 GS/s sample rate (300 samples per screen which contains 12 divs x 5 ns = 0.2 ns per sample). And this is not interpolation, because it has one sample spikes..." But what is the realtime sample rate is an open question.

[@FelinoAnticomunista]

No SD memory slot to store screenshot?

[@Runco990]

I was hoping you would do a review on this scope. Most people don't understand just how important Digital Phosphor really is. Very exited at this price point, it makes a great little entry for the hobbyist. I hope Owon comes out with one to counter, as I almost picked up their latest one, with the DMM and better signal gen built in. Digital phosphor in THAT scope would be a dream!

[@EngineeringAllAround]

The test is not complete. It's better to figure out true REALTIME sample rate first. Fnirsi is famous for lying about specs and using equivalent sample techniques! It should be tested at 5ns horisontal in single trigger mode with random signal, comparing the capture with true high sample rate oscilloscope. Stroboscopic (equivalent) sample technique allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals.

[@richfiles]

Dave Jones did a review and teardown of the FNIRSI DPOX180H 180MHz DPO just recently, and interestingly enough, the one he has had a different front end. Most of it looked the same, but there was a shorter chip in the center, and they added a group of six VHF/UHF transistors after that central chip. Wonder what the changes are doing? His seemed to have major issues with signal stability. I wonder if they did a cost reduction, or what.

[@NN-gb5lf]

Kerry, I have this scope now. It works pretty great for the price but I'm seeing one odd thing - measured voltages are about 200 mV less than what I measure through my multimeter. For example, the scope reports a Vmax of 5V for a 5.2V DC supply. Do you see anything similar with voltage readings? I believe I have the 10X probes probes properly compensated and I've run baseline and system calibrations from the menu. I'm not sure if my device has some drift or if it's something else I'm missing. Would you mind checking this out if you get the chance? Thanks in advance!

[@jancavojsky3161]

ADC is probably AD9288, like in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5rapXetf9GVjc0. The real sampling is maybe 200mps? The Chinese manufacturer to lie about sampling rate of 500Mps.

[@privatename7627]

I purchased this model, and found that when probes are calibrated in DC mode, the calibration being lost when switched into AC mode. Also, its signal generator suffers from large DC offset. Contact to customer support resulted in no solution. It is very disappointing... Kery, please check probe calibration on your unit. And short followup video would be greatly appreciated.

[@TYGAMatt]

I bought a FNIRSI 1C-15 single channel handheld scope about a year and a half ago and it was very useful. Then bought a DSO2512G dual channel handheld scope at the start of this year, only because FNIRSI didn't have what I wanted. It's been very useful but very tempted to get one of these. As a simple hobbyist, not sure I need one, but I quite like their products. I have no need to measure a 180MHz signal, but that's not the point is it 😊

[@Aleksey-vd9oc]

if you observe signals at 10 MHz, then even on a 1Gs oscilloscope, you will have 100 points for a period and only 50 points for a half-period. On the dpoh180h with its 0.5Gs, respectively, 25 points on the half-perode. The Dso2512g has a 250Gs ADC and we have only 12 points per half-period. Thus, for a half-period of 20 MHz of the signal, the dso2512g has 6 points, the fnirsi has 12 ... etc. Whether this is enough for a hobby, and even for a particular person, is a rhetorical question. However, it is obvious that the more samples (dots) the oscilloscope has the more likely it is not to deceive you, even at relatively low frequencies.

[@TYGAMatt]

@@Aleksey-vd9oc thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

[@gonzalotalento969]

Hi! Awesome video! Looking for a sub 200 portable oscilloscope, which one would you say is the best of the bunch? It seems there are more than a couple of options

[@examplerkey]

About ten years ago, someone told me that the actual manufacturing price for any device whether a computer mouse or TV in China is about 50 cents but you will never get that price as a consumer or even as a wholesaler. That's how the manufacturers keep the price super low. Also there maybe some geopolitical elements, for example, instead of making huge profits (they still do anyway), China decides to help the world with both cheap and high tech products at very reasonable prices, so the whole world can enjoy, as opposed to the American model where you have to wait 20 years to buy (if you have money) a second hand product as evidently shown by the look of your lab equipment.

[@robertb8636]

Why do you listen to ppl telling you such a BS... use common sense instead.

[@orlandoalarcon4158]

Muchos no se dan cuenta de eso,pero quién puede comprar otros bien por ellos pero en el mundo miles de millones que agradecen a China pues gracias a ellos por lo menos adquieren información y conocimientos básicos caso contrario no conocerían que es un osciloscopio

[@EonTide1111]

Have you reviewed any of the siglent handheld oscilloscopes?

[@FantaBH]

Banggood says "Due to policy reasons, this product does not exist " so ur link not working

[@tvbox8478]

ölçümleri veya enerjiyi veya sinyalleri, üçboyutlu olarak algılayabilmeye veya düşünebilmeye yardımcı olabilecek bir cihaz olarak düşünüyorum❗ keşke ekranı daha büyük olsaydı 😊

[@RenegadeFury]

250-500 megsamples, and 180 MHz rated... lol

[@EngineeringAllAround]

Not really 500Msmpl/s. It's probably some kind of stroboscopic (equivalent) sampling mode. Works only on repetitive stationary signals. They used it much in 1013d (and official specs of this devise is a total lie).

[@KerryWongBlog]

I did mention for dual channel you wouldn't be able to achieve 180 MHz. Technically speaking, 180 MHz with 500 MSPS is possible and still has some margin, assuming the signal is sinusoidal.

[@mikeconnell698]

A rudimentary FFT for that price too!

[@patrikfloding7985]

Instant regret buying this. It doesn't even remember the probe scaling after a power off. No-one in their right mind would design a 'scope that remembers nothing between restarts. Totally impractical for any kind of real work. And the ZT-703S has a much larger display. Why don't youtube reviewers actually try to use the stuff they review?

[@yalol]

Thank you for reviewing!

[@Misigun99]

It easily outperforms the FRNSI 1014D

[@KerryWongBlog]

Yes, I did a review on the 1014D last year and that scope wasn't even able measure beyond 30 MHz. And it could not capture fast signals (e.g., avalanche pulses) correctly.

[@Misigun99]

@@KerryWongBlog what do you think about the Micsig STO1004 vs Siglent sds1104x-e, which one would you recommend?

[@Igor_user]

Lots of buttons, but few needed ones. There is a big error in measuring RMS with this oscilloscope, both in DC and even more inaccurate in AC input mode. Supposedly it can be fixed by replacing (increasing) the input capacitor; about 0.1 µF is needed. And at a frequency of 1 kHz and a sweep of 5 ns, a “bug” appears - a phantom signal, you can check it on the meander. On large sweeps, the oscillogram is drawn from the opposite side. You can catch single signals and compare them with another oscilloscope. Sensitivity at 5 mV was not tested. In two-channel mode, the in-phase consistency could be checked. It is not reliable, but there is an information that with the Zeeweii DSO3D12 at frequencies from 5 MHz it is already visible, and at 25 MHz it is already clearly visible how the phases in the channels diverge on a sinusoidal signal. Don't you have mobile oscilloscope manufacturers in America? Why do you need these crooked Chinese?

[@EVLOGIA-k9f]

Never thought that this model is far more than what i expected. I have brought one but intention is to use it as a display for a low cost Analog Signature Analyzer instead of buying FADOS or Huntron which is very expensive.

[@ovalwingnut]

You R "The Signal Whisperer".. KW. I like it along with it's low low price. I do wish units of this type could squeeze in some "analog style" control knobs... especially with "menu challenged" features. Thank you for the video... Cheers from So.CA.USA 3rd House On the Left.

[@diaryofageek]

good review, I must have a slightly newer version than the one you tested, i was able to save settings as default, which removed that power on default annoyance for me. I also agree with everything you said and did. great work.

[@PatrykT889]

Dpox180h or hds2102s/hds2202s? No matter price

[@shaolin95]

This is one of those channels that never answers any questions

[@hendriagustian7082]

Suitable for measuring components (all) types of coils (transformers), especially high frequencies (determining the point marks), but whether the Duty Cycle has been updated (becomes higher) than before, I'm not sure (especially cheap class Oscilloscopes).

[@EdSteger-en6jj]

Hi I just bought one an the review was very helpful. Do you think that it would be possible to upgrade the adc’s or anything else on it. Thank you

[@Mauro-qy6sr]

Why doesn't my DPOX180 turn on after only a month? Didn't anyone happen?

[@Aleksey-vd9oc]

this fnirsi first good fnirsi

[@nookcyan]

Thanks bro!

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Thank you for a great review.

[@juhaszpeter4796]

You said in the video that there is no data about the memory depth. On Fnirsi's page, the parameter is among the pictures. There is something called "storage depth 120Kpts".

[@juhaszpeter4796]

The above value is not the memory depth, it has not yet been possible to find out what it means. In fact, he only saved 25K points.

[@MertNazmiSerin]

amazing review

[@ivolol]

Yes, I got this. Cheaper than a benchtop scope, no worries with earth grounding loops like a normal oscope, and at least they are not lying about their basic bandwidth claims. It seems they capable of learning and improving. Now they just need a better brand name XD Big annoyance is not remembering settings. I want to be in 10x/AC by default when I turn it on (least chance I can damage anything / get full bandwidth), but that has to be changed every time... a firmware patch would be nice. Being able to divide the sig gen amplitude from 0->1V wouldn't hurt, feels another half-effort feature added on for marketing.

[@NN-gb5lf]

It has an option in the menu to save current settings as default and it will remember it (in case you haven't found it already) I also purchased this scope following the video and it's great so far. However, there's one thing bothering me - not sure if it's my unit or something else but my measured voltages are all about 200mV below what I measure on the multimeter. E.g 5.2V DC gives a Vmax of 5V. Are you experiencing this by any chance?

[@das250250]

So much background noise in earphones .. you might need a notch filter

[@KerryWongBlog]

Sorry, I currently am recording on my SONY ALPHA 6000 it doesn't have a external mic jack and hissing noise is mainly from the wireless mic system.

[@qzorn4440]

Very nice little scope. 🥳 When the cheap hobby 12 bit oscilloscopes start flooding the market then I will get one. 😎 Thank you for the great video.

[@isoslow]

Not gonna happen. Cheapest you can get is DHO800 and that's for many years to come.

[@qzorn4440]

@@isoslow Darn.

[@rpdigital17]

500 MSample/s is considered as 50 MHz analog signal.

[@juhaszpeter4796]

Real-time sample rate: 50Mhz, Equivalent-time sample rate: 180Mhz?

[@lezbriddon]

bench version larger screen would be nice

[@Aleksey-vd9oc]

Thanks

[@achimlaurentiu6905]

how to set the sensitivity on ch2 when both channels are activated?

[@juhaszpeter4796]

in the upper right corner, it says which channel you are setting. you can change this with the mod/ok button. CH1, CH2 and if cursor measure is active then CSR. If it says the cursor, you can switch it to the other line with AUTO, but with CHx it matches the time and sensitivity to the signal!

[@alex-marques]

I have the DSO2512g, is this better? Should I upgrade? I use to measure audio signals for sound system alignment

[@tiagoferreira086]

I would say that if your scope get the job done maybe you should save some money for later buy a decent and more capable scope

[@alex-marques]

@@tiagoferreira086 For example?

[@honumoorea873]

Get better at knowing your device then you'll know what you need.

[@KuntalGhosh]

Can it do fft?

[@petersvideofile]

16:30

[@deepblueskyshine]

An oscilloscope is not an indicator. It is a measuring tool, so "a bit of non linearity" will prevent a normal person from calling this contraption an oscilloscope.

[@HK-uq9by]

Which one do you prefer to buy?

[@stevenbliss989]

I always look at FNIRSI with DEEP suspicion, they LIE a lot! I hope you do a SINGLE SHOT TEST because you ALWAYS fail to do this, ...please do!!!!!!!!!

[@EngineeringAllAround]

Yes! Exactly! I was yelling about this in comments here also. And they use glitchy parody on stroboscopic (equivalent) sample technique allows to measure high frequencies with low sample rate ADCs on repetitive signals.

[@KerryWongBlog]

If you look at my review of the Fnirsi 1014D last year you'd see that that scope was using some kind of equivalent sampling and was not able to capture the avalanche signal correctly. I am not saying it is not possible they are still incorporating some kind of equivalent sampling technique in this scope. But it would be extremely difficult to implement with very short duration repeatable pulses. I think we can agree based on the findings that this scope is significantly improved over the Fnirsi 1014D.

[@KerryWongBlog]

If you can think of a good experiment to perform I'd be happy to do that. BTW, I just did single shot test on the avalanche pulse, and I could capture that pulse without any problem, but it doesn't prove or disapprove anything that I have already shown in the video. So if you have a good suggestion, please let me know! And if I have the right equipment I will verify and may even make another video.

[@andymouse]

Nice one Kerry.@@KerryWongBlog

[@EngineeringAllAround]

​ @KerryWongBlog To prove it has advertised sample rate you can use avalanche pulse generator: connect identically good fast scope and the fnirsi to the generator (through properly 50 Ohm terminated T connector), do single pulse (NOT just single capture at 5ns/div , but single pulse). And all what left to do is compare fnirsi to the trusted device and calculate period between captured by the fnirsi dots. If bouth captured waveforms is of almost identical shape, and dots quantity is corresponding to the advertized sample rate, than we can state Fnirsi this time was honest. Any obviously nonperiodic signal is good to check true real time sampling, because to build the capture image stroboscopic oscilloscope uses multiple triggers.