1849 Colt Comparison

Let's take a look at an original Colt Model 1849 Pocket manufactured in 1853 and compare it to a third generation Colt 1849 Pocket. I'll admit that this one gets a little technical, but the machining and parts manufacture on this 170 year old gun is impressive and the third generation is nearly identical. Stay tuned because the old Colt is going to the range someday soon.

[@oldgeezerproductions]

Enjoyed the video, thanks. For 50+ years I've owned a "Baby Dragoon" .32 caliber pocket pistol made originally by Armi San Marco. It is a very well made piece, but many of the parts have been replaced over the years, including the cylinder, all the cap cones, the hammer.and the internal "hand & spring." Careful gunsmithing over the years has kept the piece working perfectly. My "Baby Dragoon" differs from the standard pocket model in that the barrel is longer (5 1/2 inches) for added muzzle velocity, more precise aiming and the barrel is machined round (as are the larger Dragoons) instead of being hexagonal. It is a fun little revolver to shoot. Like all Colts, cap fragments WILL fall into the mechanism, so it is helpful to hold the revolver to the side as close to up-side down as possible when cocking to the next round. Cap cones (nipples) that are worn out and have an excessively large "flash holes" through them will NOT cause chain firing. That is an old myth that has been handed down unquestioning over the years to explain chain firing. Do a google search on geojohn revolver articles for lots of tips and a scientific explanation of what causes chain firing complete with experiments you can do to prove it. Excessively large flash holes in the cones will cause the hammer to be blown back and in extreme cases, will cause the cylinder to partially rotate as the hammer is pushed back and unlocks the cylinder. If your revolver is losing timing when it fires due to excessive blow-back of the hammer, your cones need replacing, -- no amount of extra mainspring tension will work, the cones need replacing -- period. For removing stuck cones, you might try making up a mixture of 50 - 50 acetone and transmission fluid, put it in a jar, put the cylinder in the jar, close the lid and leave it soak for a day or two (or more), wipe it down well, then heat with a torch to see if you can work the cones free.

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

Congratulations on getting a original 49 pocket. A thing i highly recommend you do is a Preservation Service on it. I have a video on how to do that. It looks and sounds scary but its not. You end up boiling the gun in Distilled water. its how Museums do it and where i learned this process. It converts and kills any active rust in areas you cant get to. Turning that rust into a black Oxide that protects the metal. Just like how rust bluing works. You will be amazed how much areas show signs of neutralized rust when done, even on guns you didnt see any signs of rust before. I have seen a original walker go through this process. I have done all my originals as well. Funny in my video i am doing the preservation of my original 49 pocket from 1858. When i got my 49 pocket the nipples were worn out and the flash holes were far to big do to flame Erosion. When i fired it the hammer shot back to the halfcock Position... it has its original very Heavy hammer spring. I hope you all the luck when it comes to removing the nipples. Unfortunately when it comes to removing most original nipples. Most of the time you end up having to drill a few out. If you have to drill it out. Its not to difficult using a drill press. I have a video of me drill out the nipples on my 49 pocket. the drill will normally follow the hole through the nipple. I recommend using a milling machine, but a drill press works..when it comes to 2nd or 3rdGen Colts, one thing i found they didn't get right. the originals have progressive rifling.It starts out straight and gets more twist at the end of the barrel. Its hard to tell on short barrels like on your 49. my 5 inch 49 its very easy to see. Colt did this to all the original cap and ball revolvers. i notice it really helps with leading, fowling and maybe accuracy as well. if your having a hard time finding that hand spring. If you by a hand from a uberti replica. You can remove the Spring off that replica hand and then install it on the original hand. just slide it into the grove thats cut. lightly crush the grove closed with a vice.. sometimes replica parts can be made to fit if Necessary.... Cant wait to see the upcoming range video. Definitely glad to hear you will shoot it. I shoot all my original guns no matter there Rarity or value. Shooting it doesn't hurt it in any way. As long as your not Abusing it with heavy loads... One thing you have to be careful with. When you see how good the originals shoot..its hard to go back to replicas. The originals are extremely addictive. Dont want to have to see you at the antique firearms addiction anonymous meetings😅

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

Thank you. I appreciate all the info and I'll check out the boiling method video. I have a feeling the flash holes are much like you described and I haven't tried to removing the nipples yet. We'll see. Thanks again for commenting, Todd

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

@frontierwesternheritage1356 best of luck, please feel free to hit me up. Happy to help any way I can. If you end up having to drill out the nipples I recommend using new drills. Also, I do see every now and then nipples being very very hard and dulls drill bits. There's 2 things you can do if this happens. 1 is use Carbide drill bits. They are very expensive and break Easily so you have to be very careful. Or the other option is heat the nipple almost red while wrapping a wet towel around the cylinder. Then let it cool slowly to kneel the metal. This will make it soft enough to drill.

[@charlesangelo723]

Plug nipple with a little ball of wax. Soak acitone and auto trans fluid in cylinders. Work slow and carefull and they will come out. Some times have to soak a few days.

[@ronrobertson59]

On reproduction 1849s I've had I had to fit two main springs to get them to fire reliably and stop cap jams.

[@soylentgreen7074]

I have a newer 2023 version and I think they finally stiffened the springs. I replaced the nipples with slix shot just in case though and it shoots great.

[@lets_fish_already_9345]

It's funny that you say that cause I have one of the cheapest reproductions ever made back in the 70s and it has a heavier spring than my Uberti London model 1851.

[@soylentgreen7074]

The 3rd gen colts like you said are mostly uberti and people poo poo that but so what, they are beautifully finished and you can get parts if you fire it a lot unlike the 2nd gen colts. Also,(my opinion) the uberti’s shoot better. They aren’t as tight and so they don’t foul as fast, and they are dimensionally closer to originals vs the 2nd gens. Some uberti parts can interchange with originals. Cap and ball EU shows that in his 1860 video. I silver plated the grip frame and trigger guard on my uberti but the finish and markings on your 3rd gen colt will always be superior. Great vid.

[@ronrobertson59]

I just picked up an 1849 and was pleasantly surprised I didn't have a ton of work to do on it. I did the normal things you have to do to any BP percussion revolver. Not the case with the 1862 pocket Navy that was a nightmare.

[@samuelprice2461]

I’ve read quite a bit online about the “how loose should the wedge be” question. Probably the best answer I’ve ever read was that the wedge was never intended to be a tight at all. It’s technically a pin, not a wedge. It’s only job is supposed to be to hold the barrel onto the arbor. Like how a double barrel shotgun stock is held onto the barrels with a pin. The spring on the pin is what is supposed to keep it from falling out. On the modern reproductions, the pin is used as a wedge, in order to squeeze the parts together and get a good cylinder gap. This is not how the originals functioned. They were simply properly fit by hand by Colt employees.

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

You are absolutely correct. Great point. My only concern is that it is so loose I'm going to have to push it back in after every shot. We'll see. Thanks for the comments, Todd

[@samuelprice2461]

@@frontierwesternheritage1356 Your best option may be to simply buy a replacement wedge and fit it yourself. They come from Uberti oversized.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

A very good comparison, I think as far as interchangeability is concerned even original parts would vary across the production run, the screws would surely have had the same slot sizes, but could have been changed during 170 years of service, there is also the fact that reproductions would not be an exact copy due to them being sold onto the market as originals, but if parts are "fitted", they usually are replacements on an original after tweeking The hammer springs on original Colts are far heavier than on repros, and I think that is the reason for so many shooter complaining about mis fires and flash overs, all of my original Colts have circa 12 Lb hammer draw weight, whereas repros are normally less than half of that, adding to the problem there are after market springs that are even lighter? Many thanks for posting this video, and All Best Wishes for 2024. Chris B.

[@sasquatch885]

Very nice find! I had to pull out my Uberti and look at the muzzle. Big difference! I’d be shooting that piece of history too.☝🏻

[@steveshoemaker6347]

Boy you got a fine original Colt Model 1849 pocket made in 1853.....An thanks for showing it to me.... Old F-4 Phantom 2 pilot Shoe🇺🇸

[@dianasteward4530]

The baby dragoon was in the second generation series,which was the beginning of the pocket model.

[@jeffshootsstuff]

FWIW my original Pocket model has a flush/countersunk loading lever screw.

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

That makes me wonder if the loading lever assembly so fixed/replaced or if the design simply changed during production. But thanks for letting me know, Todd

[@randyadams03]

Happy to learn more historical information. Hope a range time comparison. Thank you

[@johnpalmer7272]

Love that stuff. Had a repro years ago. Did not like it. To slow. Older now. Think I would enjoy it now. Thanks.

[@Dusty_Tucker]

beautiful revolvers Tod! I only wish that I could own something like that here in canada! barrel is too short for our laws, unless I'm lucky enough to find and antique! great video ! keep em rolling !

[@coltguy32]

Trudope and his handgun freeze screwed us from acquiring any reproduction or any handgun right now. Antiques are out there but are expensive

[@freddiemansky7102]

well done! thanks😎

[@user-ts1fp4nm9y]

You might try Dixie Gun Works in Tennessee for original spares.

[@Gunsmith-4570]

Great video. Dixie Gun Works has original repro parts for the 1849 pocket model.

[@daleweller5193]

The second generation Colts are much better than the third generation Colts !

[@Patmclean232]

Great comparison!! Love the 1849!!

[@peterwright217]

the gun on the top of book shelf a paper weight??. welcome to 2024 Dr👍👍👍

[@Tammy-un3ql]

great video.👍👍👌👌

[@StevenMMan]

So today I picked up my uberti 49 pocket today to look into some fitting issues on it. Started addressing them. The obvious one was the arbor to barrel housing. Normal issue for these replica's 😢, but no this one the arbor is longer than the housing is deep. Leaving a gap between the barrel housing. And frame. So took the barrel off , and also discovered my wedge fits loose in the barrel housing enough that it would rattle front to back. So I removed the wedge from the housing so I could compare it to the slot in the arbor. And the slot of the arbor is nearly 1 1/2 the width of the wedge 😮 All that explanation to ask this question. How does yours uberti compare to the original, based on my observation compare? Mountain man

[@Schlachtschule]

Nice find! I think David Stavlo at Lodgewood has a selection of authentic Colt nipples (not original, but exact matches), so you might be able to get new ones there if you don't already have a source.

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

Thank you, Todd

[@btinsley785]

You mention that these guns were carried more than they were shot. How long could you carry without shooting/reloading and still be sure that it would fire when you needed it?

[@codered7453]

Good question. I carry my 3rd gen Colt 1860 Army (sig series) every day and everywhere. I load it with 35 grains of 777 and .454 roundball for self/home defense, and I shoot it as often as I can, but I've gone 2 months with it loaded and capped and when I fired it, I could not detect any reduction in power whatsoever. It shot completely through 2 2x4 pressure treated boards and into a 6x6 that I had for a backstop. No hangfire or anything. I strongly believe now that you can leave them charged for quite awhile before having to worry about possible issues with powder performance. Black powder will probably last even longer than substitutes.

[@danielcurtis1434]

I don’t think id ever buy a .31 caliber reproductions if I could get a colt pocket navy in .36!!! I mean a little pocket gun with a 130 grain conical is no slouch.

[@martinkavanagh196]

Well done Doc - Good buying. I am not so impolite as to ask you personal questions, - but Doc .. what might be a fair price in USA for a similar condition original Colt? - I have two '49's here in NZ and pay maybe NZ$4,500 for good ones & perhaps NZ$3,000 for a 'Beater' with corroded bores. They are sweet machines to own. (exchange rate is around two NZ for one real Dollar ..) Looking forward to seeing your range time.

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

Martin, As you know, there are a ton of variables. But the good ones run about $2000 - $2500 American. Of course extremely good goes up from there. Beaters are $500-$700. I paid the beater price for a shooter and ran out the door before the store owner changed his mind. Thanks for sticking with me, Todd

[@thomassecurename3152]

Todd can any inferences be derived from Sn: 186583 in year? Or in numbers sequence, like what was the first Sn stamp? Have no history so trying learn. Is it #83 in the year 1865? Tom. Poulsbo,Washington

[@chillios2222]

theres a serial number and date range online, should be marked Colonel after 1861 i believe

[@peterwright217]

mmm, are the barrel wedge upside down on both guns???

[@frontierwesternheritage1356]

Not according to the retaining screw. But I wouldn't put it passed me. Thanks, Todd

[@BigRooster616]

The writing is upside-down so you know it's a repro and can't fake a original.

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

Unfortunately its not quite that easy. All the pistols colt had many changes over time. Even the markings change Font and size. The barrel address flips a few times on some models like the dragoon. I even see left and right gain rifling on 1860 armys. To really make a determination you have to compare guns with close SNs. Because colt changed a lot of little things.