1873 Rust Remedy

[@davidsims1329]

My grandson Kai and myself just love watching both Mark Novak and Yours. I just love that you are still learning my friend. That’s a really good testimony for the younger generation.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks so much! Getting youngsters interested in these older firearms was a big part of why I started this channel. Say hi to Kai for me.

[@jeffreygraf3358]

I agree with your conservation. Sometimes the patina brigade gets carried away with leaving a gun in a rusty, cruddy condition which will only end in a total loss or at best, a wallhanger.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks, Jeffrey!

[@Unrivaledanime]

I would love to see the rest of the repairs and the owners reaction great job keep them coming

[@thecinnabar8442]

Keep an eye out for that episode. The owner stopped by the shop yesterday to see how things were going. Unfortunately, it won't be a complete surprise when he sees it completed.

[@endutubecensorship]

Seems my favorite channels on preservation/conservation are both run by guys named Mark🤠

[@thecinnabar8442]

He's pretty good company to be in, even with his corny humor. 😀

[@RichardGoth]

really fantastic conservation work.. a really satisfying result!

[@3ducs]

I'd like to see some content relating to the ranching work going on at The Cinnabar! Those Highland cattle are adorable!

[@thecinnabar8442]

I'm going to try to include more of that kind of content and see how well it's received.

[@3ducs]

@@thecinnabar8442 Thanks! I, for one, look forward to it. I have two sisters, one likes firearms, the other not so much, but both liked seeing those little Highlanders. Are they the miniature ones? There are some mini horses in my neck of New Hampshire, a friend has a couple of them.

[@Thekarlskorner]

Once again Mark you taught me something of value. I have a old 1873 Winchester 44-40 round barrel that has basically the same finish on it. I did not know the butt plates were color case hardened. Another future project I can now tackle. Thank you for the lesson and we'll done video.

[@thecinnabar8442]

You're very welcome, Karl!

[@moparhp340]

Howdy from N.E. oregon.. great work, really appreciate your take on the preservation of these survivors of history! Just got done bringing a Rolling block back to life from a forgotten pile of scrap metal in someones garage... now it can live another 150 years or more!

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks, Shootist!

[@josephgioielli]

Hi Grayson! Glad to have you here. You have a great grandpa.

[@jeffryrichardson9105]

Outstanding job!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸

[@codyb.7690]

Thanks, Mark, for the great video. My wife and I are down in Florida right now and Greyson is in Michigan, I can't wait to watch it with him when we get back. The whole family got a huge kick out of your shout out. Thanks again and always we are looking forward to your videos.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Cody. I hope Greyson gets a kick out of it.

[@jamesweaver9636]

As with any restoration/conservation, there’s a lot of finesse involved. That’s what separates a professional from a hack. You’re a professional that understands the process and the the firearms. Thanks for sharing your processes and tools. Really enjoyed the episode. Thanks so much.

[@hasanibrahimovic5866]

Great video Mark Have enjoyed it and learned a lot, again. Thank You Take care

[@garyjordan4735]

Good Morning. It would be good to see the owner's reaction, if that's possible. Good job, as always.

[@errolpoxleitner7901]

Beautiful job getting it back to good preservation.

[@kentowens2179]

Nice video, and very interesting. I used to rust blue a lot of old side by side doubles, and some Winchesters as well back in the 1990's. Takes a lot of work, and most folks have no idea of what's involved. Well done, you present yourself well. Always enjoy your videos.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Kent!

[@jimfrieze525]

Very nice,Mark. Enjoyed it as usual.

[@daveclemons1225]

That 1873 turned out great! The owner should be proud of the work you did on it to bring it back! I know I would be.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Dave!

[@titanbluestreak8709]

Well done Mark!

[@WileysShenanigans]

Nicely done! I really enjoy your work. Keep'em comin'.

[@michaelguerin56]

Good job and solid reasoning. As a carpenter, I am aghast at some of the ‘conservation’ requirements imposed by local and central government conservation ‘experts’ in regard to timber structures in the UK, as shown in TV programmes such as Grand Designs. They are often nonsensical and completely at odds with good carpentry practice.

[@daddy_saltoldchannel7672]

I agree 100% with you. Allowing rust to remain, eating away at the gun, in the name of original condition is a crime. These old guns deserve to live again. I have done the conservation method on a couple dozen guns and have no regrets.

[@richardboquist1531]

Great job. Another fascinating video

[@duster0669]

Thank you for the honesty. In a previous reply you made me feel better about my amateur repair job on my 1899 Winchester model 94. It was much worst than your example rifle, and I did what I felt I needed to do...to insure it was safe, and make it run again. You did not beat me up for being a dumb ol "bubba!" I had to do what I could afford to do to get a very near original 1899 model 94 running again. Some times when you want an old gun you gotta accept the gun NOBODY ELSE WANTS, and do what you gotta do for cheap. My gun is safe with my low pressure lead reloads, it looks old, and it works. It actually shoots factory 30-30 just fine. But I feel better shooting low pressure lead.

[@SixRoundsStudio]

You have a healthy philosophy on restoration Mark. As long as I have been doing this stuff, I keep learning from you. Putting a rusted part back through a steam process is another new one for me. Nice work.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Bill! It's a variation of slow rust bluing using the natural rust on the firearm instead of using a rusting solution. It's quite a simple process. I really like it, because it leaves the finish looking original rather than reblued.

[@SixRoundsStudio]

@@thecinnabar8442 Might be giving this a try.

[@henrysara7716]

Great work and very detailed lecture.

[@matthiashellmann6211]

Hi Marc, you are doing right. Those guns deserve being rescued for the following decades. Winchester guns are famous al over the world, everybody has heard about. Those are US Americana and the USA should not make the same mistake

[@cliff8680]

I just love your videos. I spent most of my life as an electronic technician. But I always loved firearms. I have always been afraid to disassemble a firearm. Thanks for showing us step by step process

[@chrislang5659]

Fine job sir!

[@hart64ghs]

I vote with you Mark, all you did was arrest further deterioration and make it usable as well as looking good, retaining the original patina. Your work on this rifle comes under the heading of cleaning and maintenance. Live red rust never stops and will completely destroy a firearm if not treated. Looking forward to more on this 1873!

[@gordoncouger9648]

The gun is shaping up nicely. I look forward to the trigger work. In the end, the owner's opinion is the one that counts. If you fail to suit the folk you work for with any regularity, you won't have much work to do. Our thoughts on the conservation of firearms are colored by the tint of the glasses our customers look through. I expect the shades most of us wear are a close match to tints to those of folks we deal with. That kind of thinking could explain a lot of today's problems.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Gordon! That 73's all done now. I'm just waiting for some good weather, so I can try to talk the owner into taking it out on the ranch to do some shooting.

[@milesh.1125]

Thank you for the video, I think someday I might try to convert rust, that rifle sure turned out good

[@Bayan1905]

I picked up a CVA Mountain Rifle last year, looked kind of like that, a neglected kit gun, and a CVA Hawken. I ended up completely going through both of them. My intention wasn't to make them look new, but to make them look a lot better than they did. I did a lot of these steps and they now look so much better.

[@kbjerke]

IMHO, you have achieved a very reasonable level of conservation with this firearm. And certainly arrested any further deterioration! Great job - anxiously awaiting the next installment. THANK you!

[@redtobertshateshandles]

Enjoy seeing inside these old lever guns. Many thanks.

[@joemiller9314]

Great video, lots of good stuff.

[@patrickcolahan7499]

Nice work, really a great example of conservation done right. Thanks very much for sharing.

[@jeffreyhooper3678]

Mark, I agree with you wholeheartedly. It looks as though this gun will maintain its honesty and ascetics at the same time conserving its utility much as would any wonderful tool of days gone by. Thanks!

[@AngelRodriguez-du5rp]

Mark, just wonderful! I was astonished you could bring an old Winchester back to life as you did. Congratulations on a job well done 👏

[@wilberfifer5563]

Excellent, Thank you.

[@12port77]

Fantastic job on that finish! I agree with your decision to conserve it. There are a lot of rusty guns out there with a coat of oil on top in the name of patina. Those guns are unfortunately dealing with active rust that is only going to deteriorate the gun more over time. I have conserved several of my old guns as well. I don't regret doing it to any of them. Important to point out not to go straight to gun oil after conserving or bluing. Kerosene followed by mineral oil or small engine oil first (non detergent). I am looking forward to the rest of the series on this one!

[@chrischiampo7647]

That’s Quite The Transformation Mark You Did an Amazing Job 😮😮😮😮😀😊😊😊😊👍🏼 Is The 1873 Nickel Steel Mark

[@thecinnabar8442]

No, this one's an early black powder rifle, made in 1886.

[@kencurtis508]

Great video, I concur with you choice to conserve this firearm. You do fantastic work, thanks for sharing.

[@Brett235]

I'll tell you what my grandfather, a farmer and all around fixit man, would do for rusted guns and metal in general. He would take used motor oil, heat it in a metal troph and leave the guns or metal in the oil for about 2 hours letting the metal get warm and let the oil penetrate the metal. He would pull the gun out and wipe it down with a course rag and let it dry. The gun looked like new. Edit: I think he would take a soft bristle bronze brush and rub it down before he put it in the oil.

[@JohnJohnson-bx6li]

There is no harm in stopping a damaging condition which will only get worse. That's what conservation is all about. Now that '73 will continue to be a working useful tool. There is a big difference between original condition and a damaged firearm neglected. That '73 is in original condition just conserved. No new parts, No new bluing and no rework of the hardware or furniture. Good Job

[@usnchief1339]

Wonderful video! Thanks for going over the different types of finish on an original rifle. That's important to understand when considering the conversion process. Should only apply to the original rust blues parts. I don't feel so bad about my current 73 refurbishment project. However, I wish i had seen Mark Novak's video before I started. No pitting just a uniform velvety rust layer and tons of rusty colored mucky juice in the inside of the receiver. Because of the steel used on the 73s, they flash rust very quickly in a humid environment. Looks like mine was never disassembled. All of the screws are in perfect condition. I'm using Birchwood Casey Plum Brown solution and then boiling it in rain water for about 5-6 cycles. Produces a nice black finish with some hints of brown. I'm hoping to have it slowly turn brown over time. For the stock, i just removed any old finish and oil. Then steamed out dents and polished with a grey buffing pad...no sanding. Next came linseed oil dyed with alkanet root for a nice reddish orange finish. Thank you for posting this process!!!

[@thecinnabar8442]

Best of luck with your project. Sounds like you've done your homework.

[@hpbear101]

Excellent video.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks Tom!

[@soylentgreen7074]

I was trying to reach through my screen to plug in that heat gun for you lol! How many situations do we go through in life where an extra hand would be very helpful.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks. I don't usually have cords strung out all over the floor like that, but I set up out there to have access to film. If things are going to mess up, it's always when the camera is rolling and I can't really do it over.

[@martinbouchier3572]

Enjoy your talent in firearms and repair

[@stevenkennedy4130]

That's some great work there! Thanks for the share!!

[@bullseyedixon5660]

THANK YOU FOR A GREAT RIDE SIR

[@johngallagher2313]

I think that since it had at some time been rebarreled there is no harm is the conversion process. Or for that matter rescuing a very rust relic. Originality is fine but you reach a point where that is lost to time and neglect.

[@slvrktman7824]

Have you ever tried Gibb’s Oil? Marvelous stuff!

[@knallis.hjemmelading]

Very nice, I do the same but I have found out that if I let the Cardin wheel goes slowly I get a better result it doesn't need much just a little slower

[@ronbianca1975]

Good job Mark! Are you working on making a any shell cartridges? That will be interesting.

[@gd198070]

Really enjoyed the video I was surprised to see how well the process worked to restore a "presentable" and attractive original finish. I hope you include a video on the current condition of the bore and any recommended procedures that may help to restore the rifle to a shootable condition. I recently purchased one of those inexpensive Teslong bore scopes and was very sad to see how badly worn and pitted my 1887 vintage 1873 really is. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on reboring or sleeving the original barrel.

[@thecinnabar8442]

I'm working on another episode with an 1873 with a bore in much worse shape than this one. I'm not a proponent of boring or relining an original barrel. I'd rather find a used barrel in good shape or have a replacement barrel made and keep the original barrel. Just my personal preference.

[@williamgregory6684]

Great job,agree with your assessment!!

[@williamcollins4082]

A carpenters pencil works quite well for small areas ...

[@thecinnabar8442]

Thanks for the tip. This one was probably a little too far gone for that method.

[@Siskiyous6]

think it is important to point out that Mark considers the conversion process to be maintenance, not restoration. I think that distinction is an important one. I adopted your use of a drill press for the carding wheel, it is obvious once you see it, but I had not thought of it myself. Finally a use for the 270 besides coyote hunting (Elmer Redux).

[@thecinnabar8442]

I don't mean to sound argumentative. Personally, I don't think it really matters how the work is labeled -the result is the same no matter what a person chooses to call it. If a customer wants red rust converted on a firearm, I'll do the work and they can call it anything they'd like. Certainly, what I call it isn't going to matter to the many collectors who would argue that the gun's been restored. Just my two cents.

[@Siskiyous6]

@@thecinnabar8442 fair enough. I am no collector, just a guy who does light work to maintain guns. So few guns are really collectale.

[@richardhutchinson4016]

Thanks for another great video, can’t wait to see the rest of this project! A question. When you use steel wool you add oil as a lubricant, when you use a carding wheel, you degrease everything. I have always been told to do this also but never understood why the difference? Do you know?

[@thecinnabar8442]

The bristles on the carding wheel are very soft and we just lightly take off the powdery residue left from boiling or steaming. When using steel wool to take off rust, the steel wool is more abrasive and you tend to apply more pressure. The biggest issue, though, is contamination. When rust bluing or converting, the parts have to be utterly clean of any oils or the finish will be ruined. The process usually has to be repeated several times, so you would be constantly degreasing the parts and the wheel. Fortunately, lightly carding doesn't do any damage to the parts. That's why I warned against concentrating on a rusty spot when carding, like you would when removing spot rust with steel wool.

[@richardhutchinson4016]

@@thecinnabar8442 thanks, makes sense.

[@MAGA2024.]

i agree, rust is not patina and must be removed as best as possible, you did very well

[@normanfolger9508]

Where do you find parts for a 1873 Winchester? I really enjoy your shows! I get over on the good side of OR often as I can but haven’t been in the Summer Lake area for some time. Norm

[@kevingay5666]

Great job,

[@guaporeturns9472]

Was that some kind of Scottish highland cross? Seemed to like human company.🙂

[@thecinnabar8442]

He's a purebred Highland steer and my buddy.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@thecinnabar8442 sweet.

[@miroslavstarosta2655]

Mercie

[@thecinnabar8442]

You're welcome!

[@u0010002]

Do the maintenance! ❤❤

[@lazybonescomics]

good day Cinnabar, I'm hoping you can help / advise on a Win '73 receiver I picked up. It was for sale how could I not buy it...right? Anyways I've scoured the internet and the information gathered was conflicting at best. So I figured I'd ask the Winchester Lever Guru (yourself). What I know, it's a Large Frame, Saddle Ring attached, the throat for the barrel is NOT stepped, the tang reads Model 1873 with a little design after it, It has been refinished (not the best for sure, but I've seen worse), dust cover rail is integral to the receiver, no bottom tang/no serial number. No doubt I could buy a complete rifle for less than building, but where is the fun in that? I for little reason believe it is a 3rd Model? Due to the work previously done to the receiver I plan on building a fun shooter out of it. So for advise on what would be the most practical build Rifle, Carbine, Caliber? I apologize for asking so much, I just want to get started on the right foot. Much thanks, Ken

[@thecinnabar8442]

If the front of the receiver isn't stepped, it was originally a 44-40. If the dust cover rail is cast onto the top of the receiver, it's a second model. If it's screwed on, it's a third model. Also, the trigger pin on a second model is exposed to the outside of the receiver, while it's covered by the receiver on a third model. If it already has a saddle ring, I would definitely keep it a saddle ring carbine. It'll be a challenge to find all the parts, but the fun is in the hunt. Best of luck!

[@lazybonescomics]

@@thecinnabar8442 Very much thanks to you Sir. In the mean time I'd picked up another '73 receiver. I must have 30 projects rolling at one time. Priority based on what parts show up and when. 3 are repeater / lever guns and I must say I find them the most exciting 🙂

[@jasper903]

Great work Mark! Did this on a badly neglected Martini cavalry carbine, couldnt believe how good it came out from just converting. Ps; did you ever work out a black powder load for the 38-72 1895? Greetings from the Netherlands!

[@thecinnabar8442]

It's amazing how well it works on rusty old guns. Unfortunately, I'm so busy with gunsmithing these days that I don't get time for reloading or load development unless it's for a customer's project.

[@gilbertdelgado6703]

I really think the results on the 73 turned out great. I looks like an old rifle that was taken care of but got a lot of wear from packing it around and shooting it, the one question I have is can you take that butt plate, in the condition it’s in and re-case harden it. What do you think the colors might turn out to be?

[@chipsterb4946]

What breed is that beast? He’s very mellow whatever he is, and sturdy looking.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Scottish Highland. They can be quite the pets.

[@chipsterb4946]

@@thecinnabar8442 oh! I thought it looked like a Highland but have only seen them in ginger, not white. My buddy called his Yogi and he was a sweet beast. Yours may be the mellowest cow I’ve ever seen. I raise Belted Galloways which have the advantage of being genetically polled. Those Highland horns are really long with complex curves.

[@chrislang5659]

I have ended rust with Johnsons paste wax! Stop it before it becomes a problem! "For the new gun owner"

[@thecinnabar8442]

Agreed! Best fix is to not let it happen in the first place.

[@dgoodman1484]

Neglect is just neglect. Rust isn’t patina. Some of the most expensive firearms you can buy today (British SxS double rifles) got sent back to the manufacturers every off season for maintenance and refinishing. They are so expensive because they are old yet still in great shape, but they aren’t necessarily in “original” shape. Personally I try to save every firearm I buy from ongoing “ patina” The only thing that makes a firearm less valuable is a bad restoration. I good one looks literally as good as new. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@chrislettenmaier6822]

I understand what you are trying to do but I recommend having the rifle restored by Turnbull Restoration. This way it will regain its value and will be new again. By doing it this way yes you will have stopped the rust for now but it will not be how Winchester did it originally. You will have devalued the rifle greatly.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Sending a gun to Doug is about the worst economic decision you can make. No matter how pretty it looks, it's still a refinished gun and you've spent more than the gun is going to be worth when you get it back. This gun's original finish has been restored through the rust blue process that Winchester used to finish it originally at a fraction of what Doug would charge to create a restored gun, worth far less than the cost of the refinishing. On top of that, much of the work coming out of that shop has been inconsistent as of late. I'm sure he's having trouble finding good help like most people. I had one of his restorations come through the shop lately where the owner was charged $2,200 just for the metal polishing - and it was very poorly polished. The bluing and CCH was beautiful, but the polishing had ruined the finish. There seems to be this "hero worship" of Turnbull and his restorations, but the reality is you spend a fortune to devalue a gun. The rifle in this episode certainly wasn't greatly devalued as you claim, just the opposite. The serious rust issues have been resolved and the original finish restored for about 20% of one of Turnbull's "restorations" and the customer is quite pleased. Don't be taken in by Turnbull's marketing, in the end he's just refinishing guns and many of them only have one or two original parts when they're done. As one of the best Winchester smiths alive today told me, "Anybody can make them look new again. That doesn't take any talent."

[@Tammy-un3ql]

👍👍👌👌

[@dphillips4351]

Have a 73 needs a new barrel or a liner. Exterior of the gun is original. Caliber 32-20.

[@thecinnabar8442]

Our contact information is on our website: www.wyomingarmory.com/ We can help you out with either a new barrel or reline.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

I would have gone further.

[@thecinnabar8442]

After talking it over with the owner, I have.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

@@thecinnabar8442 i have come to the same conclusion, petina is just oiled rust. getting a balanced look in the finish is hard.

[@alanincardona1879]

When you see a firearm with "patina" you are looking at very slow rust. Try explaining to the owner of that firearm it's rust. They are terrified you will destroy the value of that firearm. That's because we have all seen "bubba" remove rust. Well to all those morons who do nothing about, don't worry the rust will destroy your prize in time. Then what do you do?.