1930: All Quiet On The Western Front - Is There No Such Thing as an "Anti-War Film"?

[@fallspeed]

Johnny Got His Gun (1971) is probably the ultimate anti-war film. I don't think any pro-war person could find anything appealing about it.

[@reeferseasalt]

I was just about to jump on this but yup I love the film and the book, such an emotional experience

[@maxschaeffner9005]

One of Trumbos best works IMHO

[@matebenalcazar4463]

Come and see is the most fucked antiwar film for me

[@freddieausterlitz5601]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the author, Dalton Trumbo, immediately became virulently pro-war as soon as Hitler invaded the Soviet Union. He then turned over the names of some of the people who had written him letters admiring the pacifism of his novel to the FBI as possible subversives of the war effort. One can also find various bloodthirsty speeches he put into the mouths of various characters during WW II films, for example Ginger Rogers' character in the movie Tender Comrade.

[@sketchygetchey8299]

I thought about that being the ultimate anti-war movie…until I saw Come and See. That movie messed me up worse than the former!

[@JimmyDThing]

This is a very interesting topic. I've had this discussion many times before. I'm one of the few who think that there's no such thing as a pro-war film, but that's because even things specifically pro-war (propaganda) make me feel sick to my stomach. This is why my argument is that it's all in the eye of the beholder. If you think war is never anything but a tragedy, then you'll only see the tragedy in it. You'll even see tragedy in the way people see it as heroic because you know it's just going to happen again. So basically. We agree. Haha.

[@CaptTerrific]

Indeed, that really put Spielberg's quote early in this video in perspective - I know way too many people who see GLORY in Saving Private Ryan, and who watched Apocalypse Now to hype themselves up for their tour in Iraq. Their reactions made me swell up inside more than the movies themselves did!

[@JacksMovieReviews]

What a great topic and great take on it. I definitely feel like a war film can do either or both, they're far from mutually exclusive, like you said it's all about the mindset an individual has going into the movie.

[@jefferybryson6885]

Instablaster

[@theking-nz1ut]

This is a classic movie from 1930. I also like the remake version which was made sometime in the 70's.

[@hamburgareable]

The remake was released in 1979.

[@MrNerdista]

I've become a huge fan of this channel in such a short amount of time. One of my favourite video essayists currently. Keep up the great work!

[@bensas42]

Regardless of the anti or pro-war sentiment of this film, I was shocked by how modern this film felt. In my experience, it was a huge leap forward in term of rhythm and entertainment. The camerawork, editing, special effects and sound were superb and the story compelling. Amazing.

[@thewerepyreking]

This movie is in my top 5 of all time. I cried the first time I watched it. I think that you're right about audience interpretation inevitably guiding whether a film is pro or antiwar, but personally I don't think the existence of "bad" in a normal war film makes it antiwar. Even the least nuanced commentaries on war have death (Top Gun for instance) which is shown as heroic, circumstantial, or inevitable. War is shown as how life is, and ignoring it would lead to more death. Even dark scenes can paint blame on the enemy. Likewise, in antiwar film, camaraderie exists in war, but in a cosmically ironic way. Friendship existed prior to conflict, and in this case is generated only to be destroyed. (That's not to say it isn't a net positive) I think nuances of normal war and anti war films can actually exemplify their points

[@monkeymouse]

Back in the 60s, when I was a movie usher and the Vietnam War was on full, there were two film versions of novels that I would consider unambiguously anti-war. One was based on William Eastlake's "Castle Keep", and the other was based on Joseph Heller's "Catch-22". Both were set in World War 2 and didn't reference Vietnam directly, but both portrayed the Second World War as real and surreal in turn.

[@steamboatwill3.367]

interesting, how do you feel about "MASH" ( the original movie )? since it came out around the same time.....

[@thiccboss4780]

oh my god Charlie! this video's format is amazing!! rather than focusing entirely on the film in question , it deliberately time travels back and forth to other examples to reinforce the video's message about the more specific film , grabbing people attention more easily to something more familiar. that genius!!! and the title of the film is still on the thumbnail, allowing the tradition to survive!!!

[@Decrepit_Productions]

I've loved this movie since I first saw it back during the dark ages when the airing of "older" films was a mainstay of TV broadcasting. I also recall innocently badgering my dad, a John Wayne, wave the flag sort of fellow if there ever was one, into watching it with me. I don't think he ever forgave me.

[@SonofSethoitae]

I've seen a similar discussion of Abel Gance's 1919 film "J'Accuse!" On the one hand, it portrays war as horrifying and traumatizing, but on the other hand it seems to tacitly support fighting and dying for one's country. It's a great film, even if you're usually not into silent cinema. Edit: looks like you mentioned it in the description.

[@samuelbarber6177]

I’d just like to say, the interesting about Remarque’s novel (great novel by the way), is that most of it is just Paul and the soldiers just hanging around. There’s very little actual fighting and conflict in the novel.

[@logansmovieoutlet9622]

I still can’t believe this movie was made in 1930

[@nicholasreid1836]

Thank you. Very intelligent comments. I was a movie reviewer for many years, and i remember seeing "Full Metal Jacket" and judging it as an anti-war movie. And then I saw it again with an audience mainly made up of teenaged males - and they whooped with delight at all the battle scenes and saw it as great entertainment. Always depends on who is watching a film whether it is "anti-war" or not. And when you think about it "All Quiet on the Western Front", which I have seen many times in its fully restored version, is as much dark masculine romanticism as an anti-war statement.

[@lunacarmin]

Re-watching this in anticipation of the Netflix version coming up later this month. Tried reading the book, oh boy...

[@AnthonySmith-ty7ij]

Another great anti-war film is Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory in 1957.

[@thewerepyreking]

It's a great one

[@civi5sc2]

i saw "come and see" the other day. and i believe what i saw was a truly anti-war film, or as close as one can get. but yeah good point even apocalypse now does, to some extent, idolize the soldier.

[@ericwilleke6613]

I never saw combat, I was a peacetime medic. All training was such that when the balloon went up, there was going to be lots and lots of casualties. That was our purpose dealing with the horrors of war

[@yohannbiimu]

I suppose that I'm not concerned with whether All Quiet On The Western Front is "anti-or-pro-war." To me, it is just a great film that only ages due to its technological, almost 100-year-old limitations. All other aspects of it are at the highest heights in film storytelling, direction, and editing. It is simply a great film, one of the greatest of all time.

[@carbootstudios2459]

In my perspective, I think what part of it boils down to is theme, and what side it's on. Whether something is considered a war film or an anti-war film shouldn't be a disservice. A film like 1917, Dunkirk, Darkest Hour, or Saving Private Ryan are in the POV of the sides that eventually win in the end anyway, and with that, they're often built around themes of hope, human determination, rising from the ashes and darkness, and overcoming even the most impossible of odds. But a story like All Quiet at the Western Front is from the perspective of the the side that would eventually lose. And as a result, it shows the deception and downfall that may come of it. The futility and inevitability of death and defeat. And it can show that not all winners are good and not all losers are evil. This may be why a sense of ambiguity could be hard to think about for most of us, we all want heroes to root for, villains to shun. And there were and are indeed, but more often not, there are people who are neither in either side, just people forced to do what they must usually under the belief that a "greater good" may come as a result, that the ends justify the means. As the old saying may go, history is written by the victor.

[@bustedcookout1574]

The thing about this movie is that it isn’t strictly anti or pro war. It shows war as it is. War’s negatives outweighs its positives.

[@littleferrhis]

What about Come and See(1984)? That made me realize how pro-war even something like Saving Private Ryan is. In the end of come and see, no one really wins, all that’s left is just people having lost everything and reaching a point of anger where they become the perpetrators of violence. Generation Kill as well I wouldn’t say is entirely anti-war, but I’ve heard many soldiers agree is generally one of the most realistic portrayal of the U.S. military. From the sheer incompetence and horrible mistakes of generals and officers(with generally terrible consequences), to the stress that basically turns the soldiers into /pol/ anons in conversation, to why exactly the U.S. is so hated by Iraqis. It even delves a bit into the PTSD, and why so many soldiers feel guilt in a very subtle way.

[@workinprogress9483]

we read the book in school, and it was the book we read at school, that influenced me the most!

[@charlesclinton3305]

As someone who was in High School in the US when both 9/11 happened and the Iraq War started, I have a very anti-war and anti-militarism set of beliefs. That being said I think the movie that helped shape that belief was Saving Private Ryan by Steven Spielberg which convinced me to never join the army after seeing it at the tender age of 12.

[@TheDatabaseDude]

One of the great Anti-war movies is "The Bridge on the River Kwai". What makes it great is that anti-war or not it's just a great movie period, with terrific acting, a great script, fantastic direction and all shot on location with no gimmicky special effects. While it is very realistic it doesn't go overboard with gore and and horrendous scenes like in Private Ryan. What it does instead is show the futility and irony of it all. It's both thought provoking and entertaining at the same time with an exciting action adventure plot that keeps you on the edge of your seat and a parallel plot which is a psychological battle of wills between two enemy colonels . It won 7 Academy Awards including Best Picture, Best Screen Play, Best Actor (Alec Guinness) and Best Director (David Lean})

[@artotragos5964]

Your videos are really awesome ! It's always a pleasure to learn about cinema history with you :)

[@lgrace3239]

I'm really liking this channel so far!!

[@jaybone4732]

The kind of video I always wanted to make on YT. You beat me to it.

[@vishansilva8546]

This was in my opinion my first anti-war movie because this showed the true horror of what really does to someone and the in depth look into what the soldiers really suffer through you see both sides of the Spectrum of what the soldier is fighting for and is it all worth it at the end.

[@AmethystDarke]

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, starring Rudolph Valentino, was the first anti-war film.

[@maxwaller734]

*¡watched at 1:50 pm Pacific DayLight Savings Time on Monday, 2 May 2022 Common Era or CE formerly known as Ano Domini or AD!*

[@thethirdman225]

0:20 Begging the question is not the same as ‘posing the question’ or ‘the question goes begging’. Begging the question is a logical fallacy involving circular reasoning.

[@penelopehudson1761]

terrific series. ace. Jim Edwards

[@MrEjidorie]

Only nine years after "All Quest On The Western Front" was released in 1930, the Second World War had started. People didn`t learn anything from this masterpiece.

[@sketchygetchey8299]

Well the Nazis did try discouraging/banning this movie and the book. Then they came up with the bright idea of starting a war. Was the rest of the world to just let them take over everything, kill Jews, and anyone else they don’t like?

[@thebelen2359]

90% of the world could've learnt something from it and it hardly would've made a difference. Perhaps more young boys would've been drafted as less would've voulenteered but that's about it. All you need for a war is one madman who knows how to brainwash, promise, inspire, and lie, and a society of desperate and beaten down people willing to believe anything if it brought them hope of a better life like Germany was after WWI.

[@ZootTM]

just found about this video via r/criticaltheory. Great channel! re: All Quiet on the Western Front. At least in the novel the protagonist reflects on his ability to overcome the horrors of war, while he thinks that many of his generation may be lost (the author borrows the term Lost Generation from Gertrude Stein), crippled psychologically at an early age. Another viable way of critique of anti-war war films is not so much about the content of the film, but the way it is produced and watched, as part of the culture industry. Adorno remarks about the anti-war songs etc. that they make even war consumable. The mode of the consumer is passive. Consuming anti-war cultural commodities and displaying them to others can be a shortcut to real praxis and thought.

[@speggeri90]

The best war movie ever made is a Finnish film called "The winter war", or "Talvisota" in the original title.

[@MrWolf-xk8sl]

There's no soldier who survived a war who would go on war again.

[@realdragao6367]

When the green berets talk about the vietcong’s torture methods, its probably the most merciful thing the USA Itself would ever do to POWs!

[@warmflash]

It prompts suggests raises as a question, but begs is incorrect.

[@acdragonrider]

We don’t cut to the bombers during the bombing scene. That would take us away from the important thing that this great narrator says: the experience of the men

[@keithnaylor1981]

Very moving episode enhanced by brilliant narration. KAN

[@akirasuzami9847]

When you focus on the tiniest detail, you miss the big picture. That’s the mistake this “Can there really be an anti-war film?” Makes. The only thing that would pass would have to be extremely grimdark. You overcomplicate, and thus, misunderstand the message by saying soldiers becoming friends (which doesn’t detract from how bad war is, it’s just a bandage) makes something less anti-war than a grimdark story where every soldier, no matter the side, fights every other soldier.

[@jerrysims6551]

I concur with Spielberg. I've never seen a pro-war movie. They make war disgusting to all but the psychotic.

[@KyleSmith-hq9qr]

I think "come and see" is pretty thoroughly anti war.

[@MrOzzification]

Which film is being shown in the very last shot? The one where the helicopter slowly sweeps into the shot

[@onehundredyearsofcinema]

+jay kj it's from Black Hawk Down

[@keithnaylor1981]

This series goes well with the series: 100 Years of Movie Posters!

[@drencrum]

I think shock value alone doesn't scare people away from thinking war might still be a necessary evil, we live in an interesting age when people can upload combat footage in real time and it makes film depiction of war look downright silly and tame and yet there isn't some sudden enlightenment about war. Some of the strongest film arguments against war i've found are in the form of documentaries about wars where you can more sensibly get real accounts of human experiences from both sides of a conflict without needing to resort to sensationalism, ie: of all the depictions about the Vietnam War I think Ken Burns' recent documentary is the most condemning of the whole affair. On the flip side the war would never stick in people's minds without movies like Apocalypse Now or Platoon, in that sense artistic representations of war are what color our view of the nature of a conflict but don't necessarily teach us why the the war should be fought or not, afterall in the depiction of a soldier's struggle to survive - it's survival that's all that matters both to the character and to the audience. If you depicted soldiers as simply mindlessly marching into bullets then the audience would hate it, perhaps why depictions of 18th century combat is so often hated the most even by the most pro-war of viewers.

[@Seouldrift7]

We Were Soldiers (2002) is a movie that I don't see as being Pro-War or Anti-War. At least that's how I see it.

[@diplexnormal3353]

I do think that there are anti war films and the 1930’s All Quiet On The Western Front is a great resemblance of that. Saying that there is no such thing as an Anti-War film is the same thing as saying that there is no such thing as Anti-War Art or an Anti-War Books. We already know that there are Anti War books and with great examples, that’s completely obvious but the the point that I’m making is that something needs to convey the reasons why war is terrible and why it is *not* what influencing people make it out to be. If anyone ever claims that Anti-War films don’t do their work, then they are not mature themselves because the movies I’ve watched and the books I’ve read changed my perspective on things as it should to anyone. not only did Anti-War movies change my feelings on war but it also helped me understand the harshness and horror of films/shows like Saving Private Ryan and The Pacific. I would arguably say that it mostly bares on the audiences maturity.

[@billolsen4360]

My favorite anti-war film. We need both war films and anti-war films.

[@danielpatache8843]

Come and See (1985) I think is unquestionably an anti-war film. Like, I don't think anyone could see that film and find anything suggesting war is good in any way.

[@TheButterMinecart1]

It might not portray war in a good way, but it does portray it as something necessary. If the Soviets had not fought back, the Nazis would have exterminated them.

[@dravendfr]

Talking about Anti-War films yet not one reference to Come and See?

[@dmmcw844]

The sad part about all this is that we have to have wars at all.

[@oobrocks]

I thought this film was super boring. Maybe 10 mins (max) of battles

[@OchiengOneko]

i really wanna read this interview with Truffaut but i cant find it, does anyone know where it is?

[@AstroRayGun]

i think the only way to truly make an anti war film is to remove the perspective from the battlefield and focus it on how it effects those on the periphery. maybe the loved ones back home having to deal with their son or daughter in a meat grinder. the anticipation of a weekly letter that might not come. the strained relationship of a marriage being pulled apart by the sheer distance. kids growing up without their parent and other such things that can only shed an ill light on war.

[@williamfitch1408]

So, it's pro-war if it agrees with the purpose of the fighting. And it's anti-war if it doesn't agree with fighting. I think most people watch war films for the action.

[@AlonsoRules]

WWI is the bloodiest war in history, just a total disaster from go to woe. This film is about as close to an anti-war film as you could get.

[@davidmouser596]

Ah yes the Green Berates, staring a draft dodger!

[@chriskelly6574]

Anti-war is like saying 'following the science'. Any good period piece will sweat out the human experience. Only you can truly decide if dieing in the mud is worth it, unless you have been told to do it. What must that be like? Is this an anti-war statement?

[@fisherpeace560]

Full Metal Jacket is the only anti-war film I have watched.

[@grimtea1715]

Come and See is quite anti-war, definitely can't think of how it would be considered anything else.

[@nancyjanemahler9555]

Unfortunately, the film All Quiet on the Western Front has a totally different ending from the book. I would love to see a remake, with the true ending. ... Shot dead in the last hours of the war, and, the report reads: "All quiet on the western front...."

[@steamboatwill3.367]

That is what happens in the film.

[@zaphero5518]

I think Waltz with Bashir may be completely anti-war, it's about how the director rediscovers his memories and comes to terms with a genocidal event he was part of, and there's nocomradery in that soldiers are depicted as victims of shared circumstances, lessons aren't learned because the entire movie is about memory loss and the trauma felt, and the closest things ever get to being triumphant are in surreal scenes like the Waltz where it's clear that this is detached from reality and psychotic.

[@mrmandolino500]

Mind if I ask, why the choice of a per-episode Patreon instead of a monthly one?

[@onehundredyearsofcinema]

To be honest, the decision was some what of a random one. I wasn't sure what would be the fairest to people who wanted to support the videos. I thought this would be the best option in case something happened and I wouldn't be able to update regularly. This is my first Patreon and I'm still not sure what is the best option, What do you think?

[@mrmandolino500]

One Hundred Years of Cinema I tend to prefer monthly, mainly because it's simpler to balance finances this way -- I have a certain frame of reference for how much it's gonna cost me, while per-episode could vary (and it could also push the creator to put out lower quality content but faster). Also, monthly opens up the "tip jar" option: if I want to drop a coin in the hat, I can pledge 1$ a month; per episode, if (say) you put out one episode per week, I'm gonna have to pledge a minimum of 4$\month. I'd like for other folks to chime in as well though, this is just my opinion and I'm mainly a "tip jar" kind of guy.

[@onehundredyearsofcinema]

I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. I just had a google and around 77 percent of people on Patreon charge monthly, so maybe its worth changing.

[@mrmandolino500]

One Hundred Years of Cinema Up to you. I would still like to hear more people if anyone has opinions on this though

[@lancebalchin6302]

Come and See (Russia 1895) is a purely anti war film IMO?

[@williamsnyder5616]

I have to disagree with Rothernal's essay as it concerns "Al Quiet on the Western Front." Fiirst, if he read the book, he would come away with a revulsion of war in general. Witness Milestone's 103- and focus on one of Katszinski's observations that instead of sending boys off to fight, instead, rope off an area, and if there is a dispute among nations, send the prime ministers in their underpants and let them fight. Whether it is the 1930 version or the 1978 TV re-make, it is high school teachers urging on un-knowing boys to extreme patriotism "for the Fatherland." It is when young men fight the battles that they realize the personal ttragedy, as Paul does when he has to spend a night in a trench with a French soldier he has just killed. All he has to do is look at pictures of the "enemy's" family.

[@williamsnyder5616]

..."Milestone's 1930 film..."

[@kainwittrig2180]

To make an anti war film all you have to do is portray war realistically

[@jasonking3182]

Threads is a great ant war film in that’s it very well made but is utterly unwatchable and try’s not to be entertaining.

[@marcosduran4169]

So true cuz this movie make me want to go to war

[@banzh6074]

If an anti war movie was interpreted as pro war, then the director did a lousy job.

[@LorraineMcFly]

Lewis Milestone handled it in an intelligent manner with All Quiet on the Western Front.

[@danielherold733]

utter bs