1944 British Advanced Snap Shooting

Rob's Much Better Version: • The No 4, Mk I* Lee En...
Patreon: / blokeontherange
Teespring: teespring.com/stores/bloke-on...
Facebook: / blokeontherange
Mike and Rob of the parish of Britishmuzzleloaders try their hand at the Advanced Snap Shooting exercise from Weapons Training Memorandum No.7 of 1944: vickersmg.files.wordpress.com...
In this, they use Rob's Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.1* with Rob's .303 British cast bullet loads
Support the Vickers Machine Gun Association! vickersmg.blog/
Britishmuzzleloaders: / britishmuzzleloaders

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

If the brits really wanted an appropriate name, it should have been Advanced Range Snap Shooting Exercise

[@eleveneleven572]

We do have something pretty close.. www.arrse.co.uk/community/

[@baobo67]

Arrr! The No4 with large peep, lightning fast action, a 10 round mag and a round that dose not lack authority, The best of the best. Well done chaps. Cheers from Australia!

[@Matias-nr6rm]

Shaved Mike looks like 20 years younger, thought it was a 2012 video haha great uniforms btw

[@BlokeontheRange]

Lol. It's cos you don't see the grey! :D

[@JohnChoidotOrg]

You look so much younger without a beard that it's crazy. Most Americans grow a beard to hide their terrible jawlines, but you have a great jawline. Off with the beard, mate!

[@TheGreg6466]

that macbook "what witchery is this?!" 😂😂 was funny. nice video btw, thumbs up from me.

[@juststeve5542]

Is it wrong that clean shaven Bloke walking nervously along reminded me of Pike, and had me humming "who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler" to myself?

[@ryanmerlino1003]

Not at all

[@leighneil]

Great work Rob and Mike. Clearly, the British army learned the hard way that, in a lot of cases, targets exposed themselves only very fleetingly and that existing snap shooting doctrine was not up to scratch. The Australian army was to also learn this in jungle warfare, were the ranges were even closer, as little as 5 to 15 yards.

[@vickersmg]

There's quite a bit about jungle warfare snap shooting in the 1954 manual on the Conduct of Operations in Malaya. Special shortened practice ranges that would be interesting to see replicated. vickersmg.blog/manual/other-official-publications/

[@grendelgrendelsson5493]

Best gun geezers with my favourite rifle. I would gladly swap one of my four children for a No4!! The word "exposure" always reminds me of when I was reading "Biggles Defies The Swastika" to my son when he was about six. Biggles hides behind a boulder in Norway thinking that the footfalls he can hear are Germans. It turns out to be a party of R.N sailors whereupon Captain W.E Johns wrote, "Biggles stepped out and exposed himself to the sailors" or words to that effect! My boy wanted to know what I was laughing at!

[@johnclarke7937]

i remember in my youth doing just this exercise although we were encouraged to find cover prior to shooting. (Dash, Down, Crawl, Observe, Sights and Fire). Unfortunately, on this day, my foot fell down a rabbit hole whist running for cover and I tore the ligaments and tendons in my right foot. Still managed to shoot the moving target though! Goold Old SLR.

[@vickersmg]

Thanks once again for referencing the website - it's Vickers MG Collection & Research Association by the way ;o) A bit of a mouthful I suppose.

[@BlokeontheRange]

This vid literally wouldn't have happened without you guys! Thanks for the work you do!

[@SvenTviking]

My mate did his apprenticeship at Vickers, Crayford in the 1980’s. He was given the job of clearing out a cupboard full of stored tools and junk and right at the back, lost for 70 yrs, was a Vickers gun!

[@barkebaat]

The Bloke looks rather dashing & handsome in that uniform.

[@samuelschwager]

Obscure British Training Drills could be its own channel :P

[@AnvilAirsoftTV]

Very fine bonnets you have on gentlemen :)

[@TheGreg6466]

"bonnets" 😂 good one, Canadian guys bonnet sticks out like a target, not very tacticool😎😆

[@ceciljohnrhodes4987]

That’s a Tam o’ Shanter, worn badly and a beret, worn terribly!

[@TheGreg6466]

@@ceciljohnrhodes4987 oh yeah, it's them things Scottish or Irish wear, i didn't recognise it the way he's wearing it, it's funny how the way you wear a beret or that other thing is such a big give away with spotting a real soldier.

[@ceciljohnrhodes4987]

TheGreg6466 lmao spot on🤝

[@thewargimp]

Shocking Beret. Sort it out REDARSE.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Great video...you both looked smoooooth. Made the Mark 4 proud. Uneven ground did seem to hinder you blokes at all.

[@cheesenoodles8316]

Correction...did Not seem to hinder you blokes.

[@gregoryclark8217]

The high quantity and quality of the collaboration videos is astounding, brilliant as usual.

[@herknorth8691]

I no longer own a Lee Enfield but I just might try this drill with my AR15. Probably would be a good warm-up drill to do before hunting season too.

[@roadpanzir]

Well Done! This would be a wonderful gun club game, like sporting clays with rifles!

[@johnstewart7022]

Wonderful video - informative and it looks like you guys were having a ton of fun. It inspires me to dig out my No. 4. It's here somewhere... behind the Garands, perhaps? Seriously, thanks for an entertaining and informative video. Carry on, gentlemen!

[@the51project]

Top stuff. Always enjoy your content.

[@Flederratte]

Great video! I like it very much and I enjoyed the "advanced piece of paper" :)

[@brianjrichman]

Fantastic work old boys!

[@pmjn0943]

Hi, another great video. like the advanced user manual,

[@orley104]

We shot at Bisley in the Combined Cadet Force which used to be the Officer Training Cadets(could be Corps). I think that is right. I have an old Brass badge from The Sproc(Corps spelled backwards, from Public School) It's 2 inches round with Aldenham School top and bottom and OTC in the middle. I shot in our team and was badged as a Marksman which was the highest grade followed by Marksman 1st and the 2nd class. A marksman wore a plain Kaki badge of a 303 horizontally on the right fore arm. The others had a Crown or a Star above the 303.

[@Stargazer80able]

Great vid :) Canadian firearm laws are quite odd, you can shoot your nonrestricted rifle as much as you want in the wild, but god forbid if you bring a handgun and do the same. LOL

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

I know, it's fucking absurd, it basically prevents Rob from ever covering the Beumont Adams, Enfield, or any of the Webleys.

[@myparceltape1169]

Could it be that it a malefactor is less likely to get close enough to harm a family outing if he carries an obvious shooting stick with him?

[@charles_wipman]

This is the real training; this drill will be hard even with modern iron sighted weapons.

[@terrynolan5831]

great video!!

[@KathrynLiz1]

We did this drill i the RNZAF weapons training with the #4.... There is NO accuracy loss with a ghost ring sight. The whole idea is to ignore the rear sight completely, your eye can do it better if you stop trying to centre things consciously. All of the aperture sighted military rifles I have ever had I always open them out to about 4mm..... Just as accurate and lot faster, especially in low light.

[@TheMotorick]

Excellent! I THought I detected a slight Canadian accent there. The uniforms and rucksacks added a lot to the feel. Wish you could come to Tennessee and do some Alvin York and his 1913 Springfield video (or was it M1917 Enfield??)

[@anthonyhayes1267]

M1917

[@killcancer6499]

Pretty cool. It looks like good practice for still-hunting Northern Minnesota whitetails, except that you need to add in some narrow window moving target shots.

[@Ben_not_10]

Good show lads. Though I must say. British and Canadian humor, the world cannot handle that much power in one place for long.

[@cosmiccolonel]

They used a very similar setup in the 70’s but at extremely close ranges, 10-15 meters on the CQBR range, then the co2 operated pop up targets with bullet hit detection came out in the early eighties….. great fun!!! Edit: I should add that this range was set up in an extremely overgrown area that ended up resembling a tunnel through really thick jungle, as much as a jungle as you could have in Scotland anyway !!

[@Daimo83]

Rob looked like he really wanted that bayonet charge.

[@T8Hants]

A very interesting practice, I wonder how much you were subconsciously warned by the string going taught.

[@BlokeontheRange]

As much as we'd have been warned by the telephonist calling to the butts :)

[@blancsteve4819]

Did that American bloke; Skinner write a book about ghost ring shooting? Most enjoyable.

[@themadminuteman]

Cool stuff gents

[@philipsturtivant9385]

Hi Bloke: I just wandered over from ARRSE. That was Really, Really Very Interesting. Had me wondering how well a soldier of my generation (Brit Army 1973-2003) or the C21 sandbox generation might cope with that, given the dire state of Brit Army combat shooting training since (at least) the 1970s. Also had me wondering - given the Oct 1944 date on the memorandum (that's during the post-Arnhem/pre-Bulge 'lull' on our WW2 Western Front) how widespread was this practice, and associated pre-training, in Brit/Can units at that late stage? I can (kinda) imagine this emerging as best practice from the looooong training regimes in UK that put the best Brit Army of WW2 ashore on June 6 1944, but I have reservations about how widespread it could have have been in the Brit Army after that - when we'd had to widen the conscription age bracket to between 17 and 45 years, and hurriedly re-badged thousands of UK-based Air Defence gunners (RAF as well as Royal Artillery) to Infantry, because the Normandy meat-grinder was so astonishingly voracious, and our own UK manpower base so diminished.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Thanks - yeah, it would be fun to see how modern inf with their heavy and not very pointable rifles would do with that, without practice :)

[@jarkliev]

That is exercise that I will do some day. Is there any mention if rifle is on or off safe. Hard to see from video.

[@mattig89ch]

I have a Ruger PC9, and I love my ring sights. I have a savage 64, with notch sights, but I don't like them nearly as much. That right is great for helping you find the front sight. I def agree with you about the ring sight.

[@Zajuts149]

Great video. Rob had a perfect delivery of "Advanced Piece of Paper":) I see that on the list of distribution, there is two instances of the SAS. How much of these advanced drills in the late war came directly out of experience and experiments done by "Special Service" units such as the Commandos and the SAS? I can't recall where, but in some memoir I read of a soldier going through commando training, it was mentioned that some of the drills done at the range would have given a regular Sergeant Major a conniption fit. It wasn't unusual that practices started in special units became a mainstay for the whole force later on.

[@BlokeontheRange]

The SAS in question is the Small Arms School, not the Special Air Service ;)

[@Zajuts149]

Ah, nice. And makes sense. 1300 copies seemed a bit much:)

[@dermotrooney9584]

But you're right, doing stuff because it's ally and what the [insert name of special unit] do goes way back.

[@vickersmg]

@@BlokeontheRange And it did cause a bit of bother when two Small Arms School Corps instructors went to Italy in 1944 and ended up at the Special Air Service camp, not the Weapons Training School where they should have been. They stayed for a bit and taught sniping cadres.

[@Pdro-gw7lu]

Vickers MG Collection & Research Association how interesting, is there any documentation available to read about these two instructors and their jaunt to a Special Air Service camp? Sounds like it’d be interesting reading

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

I would think that being able to see the rope would make it easier since you know exactly where the target will be.

[@BlokeontheRange]

You'd know exactly where it would be in a proper range practice too though - when doing snap shooting you pick a point in front of or behind the target to use as a reference.

[@patrickaherne3598]

Nice drill. You could use that today.

[@jayfelsberg1931]

I must admit I was waiting for Mike to accidentally shoot a bunny rabbit

[@BoerChris]

Bit longer than 2-second exposure, I thought, but good shooting!

[@Win94ae]

Cool!

[@forgivenessisasixgun]

That dude looks like Jamie from myth busters

[@anthonyhayes1267]

Except way more sergeant-ish

[@64jaro3]

Well,it is not obscure training. In UK at Bisley it is run now as Civilian Service Rifle- Winter Ligue,once per month from October to April.This snap shooting is done standing at 100y at fig12c- roughly half meter by half meter, exposure time is 3sec-targets operated from butts by hand. Sometimes it is double tap with drop to one knee,5sec if my memory is right. Other details required first to run to firing position,10 shots in a minute,prone- distance min.300y,the same target-fig12c. All is done using bolt action or straight pull rifles. It is still very good training for civilian clothes shooters in this strange,God knows where is going to, world...

[@BlokeontheRange]

This course of fire (what is specifically being referred to in this video) is not part of the CSR programme. Should be though!

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

Is there any indication of who would have done this course? Every infantryman or selected units or individuals?

[@BlokeontheRange]

No, there's no indication given. Presumably all Inf at least would have been put through it.

[@dermotrooney9584]

Is it Tam O'Shanters or Tams O'Shanter?

[@britishmuzzleloaders]

Tam O' Shanter... Bonnet, TOS....

[@32shumble]

Did people actually still use Apple computers back then? How times have changed!

[@johnnydiamondsmusic1673]

Those 2 second Exposure's were more like three to four seconds.

[@BlokeontheRange]

We explained why in the video.

[@johnnydiamondsmusic1673]

Bloke on the Range oh ok didn’t hear that. Very good video. I used to love snap shooting on the ETR range with SLR then SA80. I used the No4 rifle in the cadets. I was in a gun club shooting full bore target rifle for a while.

[@stephenduffy5406]

That 1st Canadian Infantry Division patch doesn't exactly help your camouflage. I wonder how many men removed theirs in the field.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

Anyone who didn't mind getting court martialed maybe... its honestly not big enough to make a difference, especially in an age before general issue of magnified optics.

[@mikejohnson9118]

Snap shooting is done ALL the time in Trap Shooting.

[@killcancer6499]

Yes, and you're not exactly sure what precise direction the moving target will take. You do have the advantage of a shot cloud over a single projectile though. In all seriousness, I do think clay target shooting is good practice for hunting in the woods. Undoubtedly, some will disagree.

[@eleveneleven572]

Great 'tache....

[@myparceltape1169]

Making me and many other people jealous of a warm summer. Burn more carbon.

[@marcusgault9909]

Why are they both wearing some kinda flying saucer headgear, have they been at Area 51?

[@myparceltape1169]

Era of the tin hats. (Actually steel so you can boil up your food in them.)

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

No skit this episode?

[@BlokeontheRange]

Nope. Since it was a Ross Twins skit and didn't really relate to the topic, I didn't put it in. Rob did put it in his though!

[@verysurvival]

the remake of Dad's Army is not very funny

[@dennispfeifer7788]

He's way too slow, he would be coughing up blood before he shot....

[@BlokeontheRange]

Who's way too slow?

[@dennispfeifer7788]

@@BlokeontheRange Hell, I'm 64 years old and can get my rifle from the slung shoulder position snap the safety off, and fire 5 aimed shots in 2.5 seconds...these guys are slow as molasses...they would be coughing up blood in a real fight...to the death...

[@BlokeontheRange]

@@dennispfeifer7788 Err, lol. No you can't. Vids or it didn't happen...

[@5000rgb]

@@BlokeontheRange And he's using a muzzle loader.

[@justdustino1371]

And how might one donate? Is there a reason why the target looked vaguely like a turd pile?

[@BlokeontheRange]

www.patreon.com/blokeontherange :)

[@Blackstone9x19]

@sman7290 I always thought it was the profile view of someone popping up from a trench. Could be either I guess!

[@justdustino1371]

sman7290 Yeah I see now but for a moment it looked like a Mr Poo emoji

[@justdustino1371]

Mr 💩

[@rustyb.1301]

Hands resting on the muzzle is a big No-No my man. When you know there kids watching its especially important to practice perfect firearm safety.

[@BlokeontheRange]

We do not consider resting the hands on the muzzle of an unloaded rifle (that we have personally verified) to be unsafe. Do you want me to start on all the things that *we* consider unsafe over here that *you* don't consider to be so in the US? (Rhetorical question...)

[@rustyb.1301]

@@BlokeontheRange about that last bit, I think that could be a interesting video! But in the first part, where you were defending your actions, you are wrong. Treat EVERY firearm as if its loaded, this is a cardinal rule. No way around it. There's a saying: Unloaded guns are the ones that kill people. I don't give a shit what side of the water you are on, safety is safety.

[@dermotrooney9584]

Good point@@rustyb.1301 and well presented. No need for the rude words though, there might be kids watching. 👍

[@BlokeontheRange]

"Treat EVERY firearm as if it is loaded". So you keep all your firearms on the range, in your hands, and pointed at the backstop at all times, since that's the only acceptable situation to have a loaded firearm as a non-hunter? Got it. There's just one little thing that's bugging me though: how do you get them from the firing point into a case? Since if we're treating it absolutely as if it's loaded, it can't leave the firing point and neither can you.

[@BlokeontheRange]

Would you put a loaded firearm in a gunslip or case? I wouldn't. That's VERY unsafe. So if we have to treat EVERY firearm as if it is loaded, we can't put it in a gunslip or case.