1965 Schlicker organ - Mount Olive Lutheran Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota

[@ajmiller7102]

Probably one of the best and articulate organist I have heard. His love of the organ and music shines like a beacon in the dark. Mount Olive is bless to have this master of the organ.

[@JamesKoenig]

The torch is passed to David Cherwein and Paul Manz is smiling from on high and haunting the pedal-board-- Paul Manz represented a whole tradition of Lutheran music developing out of the German Lutheran tradition. He was of course a brilliant organist and composer-- but also a real "theologian" of keys, pedals, and composition. His wife Ruth ably assisted in texts for choral works and their Advent anthem "Even so Lord quickly come" has become a choral standard. What both Manz and Cherwein represent is deeply rooted in theology, liturgy, hymnody as foundations of a living heritage. I grew up in a clergy family and for a time had a great Schlicker for early explorations. Mount Olive is so blessed with this Schlicker/Manz opus. As a young singer just out of Northwestern I'll never forget getting to intone "This is the feast..." with Paul playing and a convention congregation of more than a 1000 responding (and sending goosebumps). That occasion was a convention of those who bravely left the historic German Lutheran synod which took a sharp (very sharp) conservative turn. But music and liturgy fly above and beyond it all, and Paul Manz lives on and God smiles (and sometimes shakes his head.) The incredible tradition evidenced by Manz and Cherwein sings on and depends on talent, creativity, and education ----also education of congregations. Sadly that is lacking in congregations and seminaries and all are diminished in the process. God bless you David Cherwein and light perpetual is surely shining on Paul Manz as he improvises with the music of the spheres.

[@originaltommy]

This organ is legend. I had a chance to take it for a spin a few years ago. It's an absolutely fantastic instrument.

[@ianjefferies6755]

Beautiful organ. What a lovely instrument to be able to play.

[@califdad4]

great organist, which are hard to find today,

[@Mr05241948]

I really enjoyed Mr Cherwein's very interesting ideas of registration, which makes this beautiful organ even more versatile.

[@nathanparker1879]

What a wonderful organ! I love the open positive behind the console! Inspired!

[@ghmus7]

So wonderful to hear. So many lovely sounds on this organ. And all kudos for David carrying on the Mainz tradition.

[@derherrvonhabenichts7462]

Manz, nicht Mainz!

[@fnersch3367]

Paul Manz is my favorite modern composer. I have many LPs of him playing this organ. Thanks for reviewing this instrument.

[@RockinRobin411]

I spent a year as sexton for that church. Cleaning the sanctuary was one of my least favorite parts of the job, but it was sometimes a wonderful experience to clean when David, or people who would be filling in for him, would be in there practicing. One of my favorite memories was when we celebrated the 50th anniversary of that organ's installation, we had John Schwandt play for a re-creation of the service done when the organ was installed. Something else special is someone who is becoming a well-loved member of the congregation, who sometimes fills in for David, is a student of his. She has studied with David who has studied with Paul Manz. I think I've told both David and his student that I'd love to see her take over as cantor when he retires. There's so much other wonderful information that I could add about this church. This organ and the music are only a tiny part of what makes it such a special church to go to.

[@ryanfrederick3376]

The 1' flute is one of my favorite stops, and David is correct - it is far too rare.

[@daryleharris1021]

This was utterly delightful! I wish I were in a position to hear Mr. Cherwein more often. Thank you for a lovely time. Best to you from Georgia!

[@焼き芋-w1g]

It will be a great learning experience to explain pipe organs. I can only listen to it once in a while, but I'm always looking forward to it.

[@georgemurphy2579]

Thanks, David! Thank you as well for your compositions. My friend in Colorado introduced me to several of them.

[@BubaLabinski223]

The design of this work of art is beautiful and powerful I would love to hear that opened up all the way

[@bhigdaddymark]

WONDERFUL video! Utterly superb playing, excellent interview and terrific demonstration. Thank you for this, instant subscriber!

[@drdylanman]

This is a fantastically wonderful organ and video! The organist is probably one of the most entertaining you've had, not just with talent but he is very funny. 🙂

[@normancascioppo1456]

Lutherans love their Schlickers!

[@jeffconley819]

WOW......blown away

[@thomasredman3777]

I grew up hearing and playing Aeolian-Skinners, E. M. Skinners and really had little appreciation for the Continental European classic or baroque sound, especially from the '60s. But I must admit this Schlicker has greatly impressed me. Beautiful voice color and full organ is complete from top to bottom...look who designed it. And, of course, the acoustics were a welcomed surprise. My guess is there's not a piece of carpet or pew cushion anywhere in the church. lovely demonstration. I'll will think more kindly of Schlicker Organ Co. from now on.

[@20a10v]

I agree with what he said about gap registrations! In my experience, at least, they are so much fun to play with, especially when you have something like a 1’ available.

[@BJBeds]

a superb demo! thanks for sharing and all your work.

[@BubaLabinski223]

I never seen a pipe chamber so clean they must go in and dust that every week my Lord is that clean it’s beautiful that truly is a work of art

[@WineGiftBoxMaker]

Nancy and I were married in Mt Olivet Aug 14, 1971. Her home town. And I was thrilled about the pipe organ. At the time I didn;t realize it was that "new". I'd like to return and listen to the organ maybe on our 50th Anniversary! Soli Deo gloria

[@garysneide1383]

This is Mount Olive, not Mount Olivet. They are two different Lutheran churches in the twin cities.

[@thebog11]

@@garysneide1383 I want to say that Mount Olivet is a much larger church, possibly one of the largest Lutheran congregations in the US. Strangely, up until 2005 they had a much smaller organ than this Schlicker - a 3/20 Moeller from 1956. In 2005 they got a 3/56 Schantz.

[@garysneide1383]

@@thebog11 Yes, If I am not mistaken, Mount Olivet is the largest Lutheran congregation in the US.

[@craigwagstrom5952]

Thanks for this ! I had the privilege of attending on of Paul Manz's Hymn Festivals, and hearing him play this instrument.

[@bobh5087]

I played a new (1981) 3-manual Schlicker for many years at my church job in Birmingham, AL which I helped design. During the nearly 20 years I played it, I never had the slightest mechanical problems with it, and never tired of playing/hearing it... lovely wooden keyboards of ahorn and palisander, with "Tracker Touch." Schlickers are such very well-crafted, sturdy instruments - musical *work horses,* to be sure - with a bright, fresh and satisfying tone. Lots of lovely "chiff."

[@johnpaulcappa8081]

Such a horribly LOUD cancel button, slamming the tabs back. Must be distracting in the middle of mass or concerts!

[@bobh5087]

@@johnpaulcappa8081 My 1981 Schlicker had a somewhat noisy "tripper" combination action - then very typical on Schlickers - where you hold down a numbered combination piston while depressing the desired stop tabs for that piston ... which has since been replaced with a quiet computerized system, from what I understand. But it was so *reliable* I didn't mind.

[@thebog11]

@@johnpaulcappa8081 I've seen organ consoles with drawknobs, stop keys, and stop tabs like this one that make an audible thunk or clacking sound when you hit the general cancel. The church I play for has a console with stop keys that does this. I mask it by hitting the general cancel when the congregation begins their responses. If I can't do that, I will just cancel by hand.

[@thebog11]

@@bobh5087 Mountain Brook Presbyterian? It's a really interesting specification - I've never seen an expressive Solo on a Schlicker, or any neo-Baroque instrument for that matter.

[@bobh5087]

@@thebog11 Regarding the specification: The late Dr H. Edward Tibbs of Samford University (B'ham) was our consultant/liason with Schlicker and, to be frank, I had a number of disagreements with him about the specification. (He won out....) I would have done several things differently, like having the Positiv (Solo) division be non-expressive; and there'd have been some stop differences, as well. There's actually a mistake that I'm not sure how happen: the Larigot (?) 1 1/3' ended up in the Swell division, when it should have been in the Solo (Positiv) division. Not sure what happened there. I honestly wish we'd have simply asked Schlicker for THEIR best specification first, as I think we'd have better-spent the $130,000 1978 contract price. Mais, c'est la vie.... It was still a pleasure to play - noisy combination action and all!

[@georgieleejrs8299]

just great!! always wondered why Paul Manz played this so well!! my aunt and family sang in his choir many years ago; heard him play in Denver Colorado many years ago also; was a big influence on my life as Organist and a musician as well; live in Nashville Tennessee would love to play with this instrument someday And you could come and play with the organ at Edgefield Baptist..

[@markrocovich2234]

Please post another video of this AWESOME instrument,and please balance the sound levels...The majesty of this organ begs to be heard!!!!

[@sleeve51]

Very impressive. Such a beautiful instrument.

[@jeffconley819]

Amazing

[@hautboisdamour2199]

Wonderful presentation, thank you!

[@chetmyers7041]

33:49 The drive on the Zimbelstern was adapted from the windshield wiper motor from a Crown school bus with engine by International Harvester. 35:11 The Flying Walendo Brothers lower a technician down on a suspension cable to tune the pipes on back wall in this area.

[@edamundson743]

Awesome!

[@james.flores]

Thanks for documenting this.

[@donaldwallace7934]

I have a few of Paul Manz records. Wonderful to listen to.

[@RQuick07]

How nice to hear this instrument which Paul Manz designed and used to inspire registrations for his organ works. I am surprised that the action is as noisy as it is at the console. Well, it is 50+ years old. Thank you David for the organ tour.

[@martinwright4125]

wonderful organist. i sure wish i knew the the arr: of the "Savior of the Nations Come". that really got my attention and my blood circulating. loved it---the rhythm in the right hand. sound of the organ wasn't too bad either!

[@martinwright4125]

@Hunter Remington thanks for taking the time to answer. much appreciated. after my post, i began looking for info in my organ books. i found the arr: in a paul manz book of 10 advent anthem arrangements for organ. i don't remember having ever played it, as the music has no personal notations or markings. i hope i can make it sound as good as the organist at mt. olive. once again, thank you for both your info and your kind attention. mw

[@garfixit]

Beautiful sound

[@oleolsonolson4998]

I remember attending a Eucharist service during the Easter season when Paul Mainz was organist-cantor. Because it was the Easter season Mr. Manz improvised a communion meditation - using only the pedals! I will never forget that those moments. That was many years ago, but my heart wildly palpitated then does so every time I remember it!

[@oleolsonolson4998]

Sorry for the typos :-)

[@Lilkenneyofficial]

Wonderful 😀

[@Erzahler]

At 30:10, you queried about the 16' pedal reeds. Without hearing them in person or watching them being played (with ear protectors, of course!), my first guess is they might be some kind of diaphonic reed. Something like a muted diaphone, perhaps? A very nice demonstration. Thank you!

[@fluteceleste]

Those boots were made by the Giesecke Firm of Goettingen, Germany, which was a well-known reed pipe manufacturer (you could order ready-made pipes there - up to 2012 when the shop closed down). You can tell from the greenish color of the paper and the shape of the wooden boots. Those are just normally constructed reed pipes, not diaphones. Thank you for this excellent demonstration, including the tour of the chambers!

[@zavilov]

Reeds are weird. Not infrequently up close low pitches sound peculiarly coarse up close but by the time the sound arrives at the floor below they sound well blended.

[@markaustin4370]

So nice to see an organist that knows how to demonstrate an organ! The organ is a bit vertical but well balanced. Pretty sure John Decamp was one of the voicers. Miss you John!

[@jabou135]

in the Netherlands and North Germany you have amazing andient Church Organs they are the best

[@foveauxbear]

Lovely video, very informative!

[@kohashiguchi1454]

Plymouth Congregational Church in Seattle has a Schlicker organ of just about the same vintage.

[@thebog11]

They replaced it in 2015 with a 3/61 Fisk. From the OHS photos, it looks absolutely gorgeous. The Schlicker is now at St. John's Lutheran in Olympia, WA.

[@linddaipauls3584]

I enjoy the last composition that was played by David. Where can I find a copy?

[@OrganMediaFoundation]

That was the last movement of the Partita on St. Anne by Paul Manz. The music is available at www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/17309631?aff_id=457717

[@James_Bowie]

I love this series, but would ask that you please level up the audio in the editing phase. In the final mix, the organ should not be lower than the vocals, because it requires viewers to keep adjusting their volume control up and down. Please use something like Audacity to make the audio level constant before uploading the videos. Thanks. 👍

[@OrganMediaFoundation]

We realize it's especially problematic in this video. What's happening is the organ volume is consistent, throughout so that full organ is as loud as we can make it and all the stops' relative volumes are represented correctly. However, at that level, you'd never hear anyone talking, so what you're hearing the switch between two separate audio sources.

[@Sathrandur]

25:28 - 26:15 Can someone give me details about the work played here based on Nun Komm' Der Heiden Heiland? Wow this was great listening. What a fantastic instrument. What beautiful sounds!

[@jimmorgan5612]

It's Ein Feste Burg.

[@Sathrandur]

@@jimmorgan5612 I think the work mentioned in question here was a Paul Manz setting of Nun Komm'. But if you meant to reply to my other comment it couldn't have been Ein Feste Burg since the music he played is in 3/4 time, not 4/4 like Ein Feste is.

[@thebog11]

@@Sathrandur I have a book of Paul Manz hymn settings, but it's all pretty easy stuff, nothing on the order of this. I will take a look, though.

[@Sathrandur]

Thanks

[@saveriorostello1650]

maestrro sei bravissimo !!!!!!!!!

[@elemusic19]

I love that 1 foot and 32 foot together

[@shawnhampton8503]

This instrument is very similar to the organ where I went to college in Seguin, Texas at Texas Lutheran. It is a slightly smaller tracker instrument but has much of the same sounds since it is a Schlicker. That room in Seguin does benefit from being much more live, though it is a smaller chapel than Mt. Olivet.

[@thebog11]

I live in San Marcos, and I've always wanted to check out the Schlicker at TLU. Did you ever get to play the Sipe at Emanuel Lutheran in Seguin?

[@harowil3]

Dr. Clair A. Johannsen, of Trinity Lutheran, Hagerstown, MD, had installed the very first non-Moller - a Schantz - here, only blocks from the now defunct Moller factory. While it is very nice and, I think, superior to what Moller would have done, it truly pales in comparison to your instrument. The whole blend of organ, architecture and stained glass is a Glory to God. Would love to know who created those incredible windows. Dr. Johannsen, died 2 years ago and is buried in Minnesota, in his family town.

[@lars277]

Have them play 'A mighty fortress is our God'.

[@williammitchell1864]

What is the name of that 32' Reed in the pedal?

[@Zardman7]

Contra-Fagott 32’

[@Zardman7]

Specification: I. POSITIV 8 Gedackt 4 Rohrfloete 2 Principal 1 1/3 Klein Nasat 1 Siffloete Scharf III-IV 8 Krummhorn Tremolo 16 Trompeta Real GT 8 Trompeta Real Gt 4 Trompeta Real II. GREAT 16 Pommer 8 Principal 8 Spitzfloete 4 Octave 4 Hohlfloete 2 Octave Mixture IV-VI 8 Trumpet PED 16 Trompeta Real 8 Trompeta Real 4 Trompeta Real Chimes III. SWELL 8 Rohrfloete 8 Salicional 8 Voix Celeste 8 Dolce 8 Dolce Celeste 4 Principal 4 Koppelfloete 2 2/3 Nasat 2 Nachthorn 1 3/5 Terz Mixture IV-V 16 Fagott 8 Schalmey 4 Clarion Tremolo ANTIPHONAL 8 Rohrgedackt 4 Principal 2 Gemshorn Mixture II-III PEDAL 32 Resultant 16 Principal 16 Subbass 16 Pommer GT 8 Octave 8 Pommer GT 4 Choralbass 4 Pommer GT 2 Blockfloete Mixture IV 32 Contra-Fagott 16 Posaune 16 Fagott SW 8 Trompeta Real GT 8 Trumpet 4 Clarion SW Zimbelstern (Toe Stud) ANTIPHONAL PEDAL 16 Gedacktbass 8 Gedackt

[@ryanfrederick3376]

lol whose organ shoes are dangling inside the case at 38:48?

[@OrganMediaFoundation]

Those belonged to Paul Manz.

[@ryanfrederick3376]

@@OrganMediaFoundation I wondered if that wasn't the case. Very, very cool. I was fortunate enough to meet Mr. Manz at the AGO convention in Minneapolis back in 2010. I have a copy of his Reformation improvisations that he autographed, which I treasure. I do wish there was an authoritative "complete works" somewhere, so I could purchase without buying some pieces twice and inadvertently missing others.

[@bobh5087]

I always enjoy your organ videos. Thank you. But I have a question: why does the audio cut back/weaken whenever the organ is played, and then resumes when the talking starts again? I always feel as though I'm missing something. 🤔

[@Spudeaux]

Even the best recording equipment is much more limited than the human ear, so the louder registrations would become quite distorted in the the recordings if they used the same mics at the same settings as used to record them talking. To remedy that they can either adjust the sensitivity of the mics between playing and talking, or make two different recordings from two different sets of mics and mix them together when editing the video. I believe the latter is what they are doing, and I think they probably have the mics used for the organ playing set up below in the nave to give a better representation of how the instrument sounds in the space.

[@bobh5087]

@@Spudeaux This makes sense, but I still wish it could be corrected. I never notice this problem on other organ demos. Thanks for your reply.

[@thebog11]

@@bobh5087 I've watched a lot of other organ demonstration videos by OrganMedia, and it doesn't seem like they were doing this. At first I just thought that the organ was voiced extremely quietly, since Mr. Cherwien talked about having so many resources that they could overwhelm the room, but then I noticed that there was a distinct difference in the sound quality between the pipe demonstrations and the dialogue.

[@bobh5087]

@@thebog11 Yes, I'm sure it must have something to do with the microphone(s)-- but it's still really annoying, and could certainly be corrected... somehow.

[@OrganMediaFoundation]

Spudeaux has the most accurate explanation. We've gotten many comments about this, and we have a video planned to explain how we capture everything and why this phenomenon occurs. The comment is correct in that there is more than one audio source. The issue is exacerbated by the fact that these videos are candid and unscripted. We never know what an organist or Brent will say when, which is tricky. The most important things when creating any of our videos is the sound of the instrument and the relative dynamics of the different stops. Chances are many of the organ demo videos you've seen use a single audio source for the organ and the host, which while possibly consistent throughout, isn't always the best capture of the instrument.

[@greatnate1684]

Did anyone else get a small lump in their throat when they saw Dr. Manz's organ shoes hanging in the great division?

[@noahpierson440]

Is that what those shoes were doing there? I was wondering....

[@greatnate1684]

@@noahpierson440 I'm fairly certain.

[@thebog11]

I thought it was a cool way to honor him, but I was also wondering how most of the sole came off. Personally, I would hope that if I was to die after serving at a church for decades, they would simply prop my desiccated corpse against a wall of the organ chamber, to scare the tuners (and to keep a watchful eye on my successor).

[@kerplunk8011]

I like the sound, but it bothers me to hear a click every key played.

[@Sathrandur]

Also, 11:33-11:51 is this an arrangement of Praise to the Lord/Lobet Den Herren? Any details also appreciated.

[@moritzaufenanger2537]

Seems like, but don’t know from who

[@thebog11]

I'm willing to bet that the first half of the verse is straight from the Lutheran hymnal, and what follows is just Mr. Cherwien extrapolating on it.

[@thebog11]

I recently got a book of Manz, and it does have an arrangement of Lobe Den Herren. I can give you the info on the book, or figure out a way to get you a copy.

[@JohnnyMcMenamin]

What lens did you use to film the innards of the organ? I had a brief sense of motion sickness. This organ sounds wonderful. Thanks for creating this video of it.

[@johannesbusch8161]

Sorry but why do you constantly level down between the talking? Kind of weird compressor effect. Very disturbing.

[@DIYerGuy]

interesting video: However, you have some major issues with your audio. I suggest you guys listen to your video on KZbin and you'll hear the problems: Whom ever set up your recorder has the mic auto-level turned on, or something is randomly lowering then restoring your recording levels. The mic issues really makes it hard to properly hear what the organ sounds like. One of the demos was totally lost because of it. Suggestion: If you're using stereo mics you need to place them strategically and set the recording level based on the loudest you expect to play the organ but also in a position that captures the rest at a reasonable level. But definitely disengage any mic auto-level when recording. If you must use an auto-level then you need to upgrade your recording equipment, otherwise it all sounds very spotty and amateurish.

[@PMS1950]

An effective full organ, which to my ears sounds like a juvenile but enthusiastic 'Rieger' - plenty of throaty reeds. Surprisingly for such a lofty 'room,' the acoustic is quite restrained and a bit flat. The action is at times noisy, particularly during the softer passages.

[@davismuramoto335]

I hope you've been working on the sound balance since this video. The conversation is loud and clear than the parts with the stops being demonstrated. It's disappointing to not be able to hear the organ sounds as well as the conversation

[@lars277]

Is Mount Olive an Evangelical Lutheran church?

[@mic1240]

Like the vast majority of Lutheran churches in the US (particularly in MN), it is an ELCA church (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), part of the global Lutheran church. They have a traditional mass and great music at this church.

[@resultant64]

Quite a large organ.... But some how the sound not so appealing.....maybe the room...

[@chrisdoeller7332]

I service several Schlickers. None are offensive, none exciting. None are in reverbarant rooms. The mixture on the Great is fairly easy on the ears to tune. The Swell mixtures are a waste of space, as are the reeds. On the whole the tuning is stable.

[@markrocovich2234]

I am disappointed that you DID NOT play Paul's transcription of Now Thank We All our God in this presentation..a grievous error..

[@thebog11]

This is entirely my opinion, but these videos seem to be focused on presenting the organ, not presenting music. If they wanted to do St. Anne and Nun Danket, the video would've been longer.

[@AD5GB]

great video. Compression destroyed he audio.....

[@waltertomaszewski1083]

Does this pipe organ have a motor/blower set? Or is it all electronic/digital?

[@thebog11]

You need to watch the entire video, my friend. They show nearly all the pipes. There are no electronic or digital stops on this organ.

[@waltertomaszewski1083]

J C Please do not condescend to me, 'my friend'. I did watch the entire video. That is why I asked the question.

[@thebog11]

@@waltertomaszewski1083 So you watched the entire video, but are unsure whether the organ is all electronic or digital stops. I'm not sure what to say to that. I'm also not sure what the stops have to do with the organ having a blower or not. If it has pipes, it has a blower.

[@waltertomaszewski1083]

J C I said not to condescend to me. I'd asked a legitimate question. If you are unsure of what to say as an answer, don't say anything.

[@thebog11]

@@waltertomaszewski1083 You called it the first time - I was indeed being condescending. In my second response, I was entirely serious. If you watched the entire video, you saw the pipes. Therefore, the organ cannot be all electronic/digital. Additionally, in the course of this video, nearly every stop is discussed individually. If there were electronic or digital stops, or even extensions, they would have mentioned them. And I will reiterate my point - if an organ has just one pipe to its name, it has a blower to push air through said pipe.

[@johnvalentine8924]

This has to be the QUIETEST Schlicker I've ever heard!---too bad.

[@BubaLabinski223]

Wow that almost sounds like an electric Oregon kind of like an ALLAN But then again this is my opinion and ALLAN sounds a lot like a pipe organ and they do try to imitate a pipe organ they do a great job

[@rowanlidbury]

Ahhrr! Stop rocking..!!

[@Sharkattackguy]

Nice instrument.. but its a shame the room is rather dry.

[@Sharkattackguy]

@James Casey Very true. there is nothing like a live performance.

[@eitanhativ2802]

How can something be "very unique"?

[@markaustin4370]

Laukhuff reed boots

[@WAX6428]

please "look" at the person who is talking to you..........

[@CurtisBooksMusic]

Yea, way too big for that sanctuary. :)

[@robertallen6710]

..yes..

[@RockinRobin411]

As a member of that congregation, I have no complaints about the organ or the sanctuary or the combination. I don't think any of us in the congregation do. It possibly is when it comes to acoustics, but all of us in the congregation love it. Other people on the video have commented on microphone problems with the video.

[@CurtisBooksMusic]

@@RockinRobin411 From the pew you wouldn't notice with a competent organist. Only when you look at the budget. :)

[@rickkyper2045]

Gunna pass on this organ, but enjoy!

[@CurtisBooksMusic]

There is no compressor or level changes. They are changing the microphones you hear. Which is the right decision. Get over it.

[@TheJakeman789]

Unreal. An ELCA church, that's too bad for the organ. That organ should be in a better church than in one that promotes sin.

[@thebog11]

It still blows my mind that in an era when mainline Protestant churches have greying congregations that are slowly shrinking, people think that rigid orthodoxy is worth the loss of members and central resources to draw on.

[@Lilkenneyofficial]

I agree with you on that one 💯. Still a nice organ tho

[@praestant8]

TheJakeman789 Well, aren't you a bigot.

[@RockinRobin411]

@@praestant8 Although I'm not sure if directly calling someone a bigot is a good idea, I'm glad someone finally called out the discriminatory attitudes expressed. By "promoting sin," I'm guessing the criticism is being inclusive and welcoming to LGBTQIAP+ people, as well as comfortable with peacefully coexisting with practitioners of other religions. To me, the real sin is excluding and judging them. Admittedly, when I call people out for being judgmental, they call me out for judging them as judgmental.

[@agogobell28]

What are you, Wisconsin Synod? Screw you.

[@urbanviii6557]

Dead American room.