1972 Prog Rock Extravaganza: Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull & More! | The Album Years Podcast

[@thealbumyearspodcast]

Send us your album reviews and questions for inclusion on future episodes of The Album Years, we'd love to hear from you! fanlist.com/thealbumyears

[@kazimierzgarshin3924]

Somewhere I read / heard that VDGG were influenced by the Austrian Composer Anton Bruckner. Perhaps in relation to Bruckner being a great organ player and Banton building his own organs. In the VDGG book however AFAIK there is nothing about Bruckner. Is this influence a fact?

[@philstevens9914]

Supper's Ready is an absolute masterpiece.

[@robinwatson4282]

Yeah, it is. And revered singer/songwriter and visionary Peter Gabriel sees it that way as well. Meanwhile Porky Pinetree Wilson is way down the pecking order of achievements and doesn't know shit - the fucking asshat.

[@kevinlakeman5043]

I was just about to post about that one when I saw yours. As much as I love Floyd and "Echoes", I think "Supper's Ready" is a more impressive piece of music. Certainly stands w/ those two classics, CTTE and Echoes.

[@philstevens9914]

@@kevinlakeman5043 No shortage of good music from yesteryear! Everything these days is crap. Must say though, I am a drummer and see music differently than non-drummers. In recent years one piece stands out (Pneuma - Tool). There is a growing number of Danny Cary (Tool drummer) reviews every week. I'm stunned actually.

[@styles8007]

When growing up in the 70's Yes " Close to the Edge " was such an honor to hear. We used to call this music " Art Rock" before being called "Prog Rock." A Local FM radio station " WLRS" back in the 70's would play the entire side 1 " Close to the Edge. " Those were the glory days growing up in the 70s. I sure miss those days, and FM radio was like underground radio. Thank you, gentlemen, for sharing this classic "Art Rock years." Cheers from Indiana.

[@mikereiss4216]

I wasn't old enough to know what was going on back then but I still say that close to the edge is probably more famous now than it was back then. I think Fragile was their so called "big" album but now I think it's CTTE.

[@styles8007]

@mikereiss4216 Well, there was so much Yes music at the time. They were releasing an album every year in the early 70's, Fragile 1971, Close to the Edge 1972, Tales from Topographic Oceans 1973, Yessongs 1973, Relayer 1974. During 1975/76, each member released their solo album. Then, Going for the One 1977 and Tormato 1978. I was fortunate to see Yes 1976,1977 & 1978. WLRS 102 always played Yes. I will agree that Close to the Edge is probably more listened to today, but I my personal favorite album is Going for the One and my favorite all-time Yes track is " Awaken " That song is the perfect "Art Rock " track. Cheers.

[@robinwatson4282]

@@styles8007 niiiice

[@GonzaloCento]

ELP should be better considered. They have managed to popularize classical music, break that barrier and fill stadiums with pure rock. That's rebelliousness. I don't understand Steven's criteria to judge bands, but I love you Steven.

[@gonzalocento4819]

The most complete and detailed podcast. I agree with yes and with the vision regarding Genesis and Van der Graaf. NOT so with respect to ELP Trilogy, I consider it to be a great album and not only within Prog.

[@kevindayton9757]

I've LOVED all of these albums my entire life... (was 16-17 in '72)... what a (life) time to be a musician. Such a privilege. *** Sorry Steve... "Supper's Ready" is my all-time favorite PROG tune.

[@the_real_schopenhauer985]

Glad to see Khan's Space Shanty at leas mentioned briefly. One of my favourite Progressive Rock albums. Like Tim I only discovered it a few years back.

[@kevinlakeman5043]

Yep, I discovered it on a blogspot about 2010. Good stuff.

[@Yes_Jorge_Yes]

I was 11 years old in 1971 when I discovered Yes, and I was completely blown away by Close To the Edge, but so was I impacted by Foxtrot, Prologue, Thick as a Brick, and Trilogy, what a fantastic Year in music was 1972.

[@jlkoenig4377]

Thank you for mentioning Prologue, I sure loved Renaissance back in the day. Turn of the Cards and Scheherazade were in heavy rotation on my "stereo" too.

[@sullivan4052]

What the hell man Tarkus has one of the most iconic album covers of prog!!!

[@tlm8436]

Close to the Edge, is my absolute favorite album, given to me when I was 15, in 1978. I had been listening to this album since I was 9. When I got older, I bought a second copy, just in case I wore out the 1st one. Still have em both. Still listening. Genesis, I got to know later on. I don't own Foxtrot. Need it. Tull, massive fan. I was 6 when my love started with Aqualung. 6 man. I had a brother, 11 years older, listening to these in the next bedroom and I was playing with my dolls and singing along. Thick is a brick is in my collection. I love ELPs, Pirates. I'm just an ELP die-hard fan. Thanks for your POVs, though. Always appreciated. Thanks guys!!!

[@danny1959]

“Supper’s Ready” is the best prog epic ever recorded.

[@colinburroughs9871]

nope, CTTE is significantly better and it shouldn't even really be a debate. I dunno who told you all Supper's on par. It's simply not.

[@TractorCountdown]

Totally agree, hands down.

[@TractorCountdown]

@@colinburroughs9871 Nope.

[@colinburroughs9871]

@@TractorCountdown effortless vs clunky and largely unserious aside from the last 5 minutes. A song about a bad trip is cool and all, but it's campy. CTTE is a bit more important, but you either know or don't.

[@hartyewh1]

​@@colinburroughs9871This kind of technical approach to music is missing why it exists in the first place.

[@myworms]

Steven is the kind of guy who decides at some point that he doesn’t like something and will never change his mind no matter what. In other words, a prog fan.

[@wjstephens4654]

Nice to hear love and respect for Van Der Graaf Generator, the greatest progressive rock band of all times.

[@BetamaxFlippy]

They hit the peak in '71 and no one came close ever since

[@greatbooksbigideas]

Nice to see Procol Harum get a passing mention. Please dive into more of their work! So many great albums to explore....

[@davidlaw689]

I completely agree about Gentle Giant. It took 4 or 5 listens to their discography before it all clicked for me.

[@harrynewiss4630]

Still trying with them, not yet succeeding

[@patbarr1351]

There's a bit of an art to discussing music in a lively way without the talkers crashing into each other and this is the way to do it! I enjoyed Steven & Tim so much that I'm only going to mention one artist that was missing. I would include Strawbs in any discussion of 1972. *Grave New World* was not the most consistent album of its day-- the band had too many talents going in different directions and broke up and reassembled often-- but they had a real folk-rock power that began to blossom here.

[@runntum]

When I first heard Close To The Edge back in '72, I was never quite the same musically. I can't explain it except to say it affected me in a way that no other single album ever did. Even to this day when I listen to it, I swear I hear something within the album I've never heard. A little bit or piece of music that I didn't catch before even though I've listened to this album a thousand times.

[@CarolH2]

Same!

[@AnthonyPoetica]

Me too. I was fortunate enough to be able to get to the Premier of Close To The Edge at the Crystal Palace Bowl and as you rightly say, that day did indeed change the trajectory of my life.

[@jlkoenig4377]

Yeah, I remember my first listen to CTTE (with headphones) in utter amazement.

[@dav147]

Love all of this stuff but 'Thick As A Brick' is a piece of absolute geniuis.

[@CarolH2]

Glad that Floyd's Obscured by Clouds is here, particularly mention of Mudmen and Absolutely Curtains, which was where my dumbed down comment of 'freakin weird' is aimed at. 😆

[@emptysquares6863]

Some of ELPs best moments were reconstituted classical pieces such as the anarchic live performance of "Pictures at an Exhibition", "Knife-Edge" and "the Barbarian" from the 1st studio album, the incredibly intense "Toccata" off Brain Salad surgery and don't forget the very groovy "Fanfare for the Common Man" which is fab and was a hit single despite basically being a 9:40 keyboard solo!!

[@kratino]

Romeo and Juliet from a Prokofiev ballet!

[@andrews882]

Tim's journey into Genesis was exactly the same as mine. Follow you follow me was the first song I heard, then I picked up Foxtrot cheap. I fell in love from then on.

[@bobby666666]

Turn It On Again was the song that converted me. I did also take notice when Follow You, Follow Me came out, but it didn't convince me to go further at the time.

[@philstark2765]

Starcastle! Saw them mid seventies, they were Yes 2.0. Love these guys.

[@hertor8803]

Thanks for that. I thought he was saying "Style Council" and was imagining they had some 35 minute experimental deep cuts I didn't know about. That's a relief.

[@kevinjekyll1521]

I grew up on Jethro Tull with Aqualung and respect them to this day. Then heard Yes and Genesis, both involved me differently. I listened to other bands like; Alice Cooper, Bowie and so many others, they all made me want to listen to more. I still find Close to the Edge always involving even to this day. I love this era of music, real musicians, all talented in their own ways, sadly missed... Thanks for the review, I hope this legacy is not forgotten...

[@alain_de_frothcorn]

I am stunned that two people talking about music - and not playing any of the music they are talking about - can be of interest to anyone?! And yet they clearly have an audience, astonishing!

[@BetamaxFlippy]

Man it's enough they get to talk about it without receiving a copyright strike from KZbin, the platform just isn't that free anymore. Those who do include the music in the videos usually rely on sponsors and partnerships to eat, there's no revenue if the video's content gets claimed by others.

[@tomtrana3449]

😊I bought the albums mentioned the year they were released.

[@lauskop5995]

My favourite bands OAT are Genesis and Tull, and both albums from '72 are treasures. As a german born in 1959 I did not get to know these 2 records before around 1975. And for me both bands being very different though share ( Don't laugh ) the englishness... And both bands put some marvellous little musical paintings between the bigger pieces on record like 'For Absent Friends', 'Harlequin', 'More Fool Me' or 'Cheap Day Return' 'Wonderin aloud' 'Grace' all based on acoustic guitar. I think I really love 90 % of their Output in the 70' Yes are not quite there. But CTTE ist certainly a masterpiece. Just like 'The Raven That Refused To Sing. Love it

[@kenmeyerjr57]

As for organized chaos, I think Relayer has the most of that, and a huge fave of mine.

[@kevincorrigan7893]

Gates of Delirium = my favorite Yes track for that reason

[@isohenflowil]

But there was something off about the production. Bass sound lacked fullness. The whole thing sounded tinny to my ears. Close to the edge was gloriously produced.

[@fireant1015]

Glad to see a mention of Man, awesome band!

[@dag221]

Greg Lake is one of the best vocalists ever in my opinion and 'Pirates' is a banger.

[@jlkoenig4377]

Yes, RIP Greg, what an amazing voice. His vocals with Crimson too, magnificent.

[@PLively]

Close To The Edge is wonderful. In 1972 I was nine and living in my home town of Newport, S. Wales. Even at this young age I'd been introduced to jazz by my Dad. I was already listening to KC and VDGG and Yes and Genesis through my older brother, and I loved it. Even by 1979 I had adopted Close To The Edge a my lucky album and I'd listen to it every day before getting on the bus to sit my O Levels. Everything was still all cheesecloth shirts and long hair. Punk had all but passed me by. My favourite >progressive< bands had already gone off the boil. I cite the post Hackett Genesis stuff and albums like Tormato. I formed the idea that I needed to look elsewhere. By 1981 I heard a bootleg tape of Marillion. On it there was a track that was labelled as "3 boats down from the Candy". It may have been mislabelled, but the actual track, whatever it was called, was nothing but a crappy rip-off of Apocalypse in 9/8. At this moment I developed a massive dislike of Marillion and I've never been able to get over it. By now I was in the right place. I was rubbing shoulders with members of The Cure (OK, I went to a party in Clapham and chatted with a VERY drunk Lol Tolhurst after he climbed in through a windows and I handed him a beer). A friend of mine from Southport had some schoolmates who were living in a musical commune in a disused fire station on the Old Kent Road and had formed the band Bourbonese Qualk. Prog was dead, but my goodness, the future looked fantastic!

[@nandopelusi7699]

CTTE is moving, consistently impressive, and actually rocks.

[@tullfan2560]

Talking 1972, I'm surprised Argus didn't get a look-in. What a marvelous album and musical journey. Just wondering whether Tull's concept albums TAAB and A Passion Play inspired Camel's Snow Goose and Moonmadness as well given that they take a fair bit of audacity to do.

[@bowness1]

Argus is mentioned in a later 1972 episode (along with Fleetwood Mac's Bare Trees).

[@DrakusRecords]

I love the cover of Tarkus! I used to have a t-shirt with that goofy looking armadillo tank signed by all 3 band members in the 90s and I would wear it proudly all the time to the point where it wore out.

[@kevinlakeman5043]

I have a Tarkus t-shirt right now.

[@douglasstruthers8307]

The incredible amount of great music being created across countless genres in the early to mid 70s is staggering! The experimentation, creativity, and musical performances are mind boggling. I have gone back to the early 70s Jethro Tull albums in recent years and am enjoying the journey in a big way: STAND UP (1969) and AQUALUNG and, especially, THICK AS A BRICK (always beside my turntable!) are brilliant albums from this period. I feel that Pink Floyd's OBSCURED BY CLOUDS is often overlooked. Thanks for this entertaining podcast .

[@ianp9086]

The discussion near the end has really helped me understand why I could never like ELP despite loving most UK prog!

[@tedroybal5231]

I just listened to Steve's remasters of Tull and Chicago. Thank you Steve!!! Wonderful work!

[@patbarr1351]

Agreed! Those are actually remixes. We're fortunate that the multitrack tapes were still around.

[@ABC-p4m]

Yep, 1972 was an amazing year indeed for prog. Some comments I'll make in relation to some of the points that were raised in the discussion...I love Close To The Edge, but I know that I'm in the serious minority when I say that to me it's not the main Yes masterpiece album, that would be Relayer, to my ears! As much as I love Close To The Edge, I feel that Relayer got to an even higher level for the band musically and in terms of composition, and is their crowning achievement. I guess it's also due to my love for Jazz-Fusion, and Relayer was definitely Yes' jazziest album. Patrick Moraz brought a great deal to the band with his jazzy influence and it's a shame he only appeared on the one album, their very best in my book! As for Gentle Giant...yep I totally agree, the underdogs of the main prog groups of the era (due mainly to their lack of commercial appeal)...but they are as deserving of the term "progressive" as absolutely anybody else. The band's level of musicianship, intricate compositions and experimentation is simply astonishing! My personal favorite track of theirs, the Three Friends title track, is just amazing and I truly believe any of the old Classical composers would have been very proud to have composed such a sublime piece as that, seriously! Lastly, Obscured By Cloud is definitely in my top 5 favorite Floyd albums! It's clearly their most underrated album, I think due to 2 main reasons: firstly the fact that it was a film soundtrack and hence many don't even consider it a proper album, and secondly the fact that it was released just before Dark Side of the Moon, so was quickly overshadowed and forgotten about. However, I love it and it contains some true gem tunes (Childhood's End, Wots Uh The Deal, Mudmen etc), and is an album that definitely deserves more attention.

[@wads_o_hair]

I was working at a college radio station during the early 70s, and we frequently played the albums featured in both 1972 episodes on this channel. I have added most of these titles in various formats to my personal collection over the years (including several remixed by Steven). This stuff sounds great even after half a century; it is truly classic rock.

[@davelanciani-dimaensionx]

I'm about Tim's age, so I also remember a lot of these albums when they were first released. I was more into Kiss, Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, so it took a bit longer to come back and appreciate prog-rock. But once you do, there's no turning back. I love KC, Yes, old Genesis, etc. Thanks for reminding me of these great albums.

[@TheProgCorner]

Fantastic!!!!

[@GeorgeTheGreekFan]

yeaaaaaaaa found you here again!

[@TheProgCorner]

@@GeorgeTheGreekFan I’m everywhere.

[@GeorgeTheGreekFan]

@@TheProgCorner frick yeah. epic channel you've got btw.

[@TheProgCorner]

@@GeorgeTheGreekFan THANK YOU!!!!

[@relativetimeworx8459]

The key to Yes' success is their abiltiy to intertwine very accessible motifs and hooks within hooks amidst all of the boundary-pushing innovation and experimentation.

[@bobsbigboy_]

this. Yes made some of the catchiest music ever

[@ClichéGuevara-2814]

Burford played some crazy polyrhythmic toe-tappers.

[@hpatss4966]

Along with the ability to reproduce and augment their album material in a live context, their unyielding commitment to writing music about higher concepts in place of real world experiences, and the overwhelming amount of work they did in their early years.

[@hpatss4966]

@@bobsbigboy_what happened, to this song, we once knew so well?

[@admarhermans1]

🎯

[@rockrecordreport7136]

I saw YES perform CTTE in 1973 and I remember it clearly to this day. And I saw Pink Floyd perform the complete WYWH album. Tull do partial TAAB (but it was in 1977). I can die happy.

[@CRIMS0N_KING]

39:40 Steven talking about how bad ELPs albums covers are yet Brain Salad Surgery is one of the best of all time

[@rifqikhairul7458]

Thanks Steve & tim. We got some hidden gem from this great episode. So far this is my fav episode. I don't have many knowledges about some great prog album. So i Will take a time to get in touch which is something new for me.

[@rnaismith4447]

Ian Anderson was defiantly aware of Genesis as he later played Peter Gabriel's flute parts on an orchestral Genesis album which also featured Steve Hackett.

[@vincentbeaney4875]

Glad to hear Tim's comment about ELP's Love Beach and what might have been had side 2 been side 1 and with a different title and cover - I've always thought that as well

[@squishynobones1977]

Having been born in 1972 and somehow turned into a prog fan by the 1990s (for reasons), this might be my favourite episode so far with beautiful insight into a few of my fav albums from some of my fav pdcasters (and musicians... looking forward to SW's next tour... finally!)

[@kevincorrigan7893]

Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme are two of my favorite albums; they're odd, whimsical, and dark in a way that Yes never were. I love the music on Close to the Edge but it was always a but stiff-sounding to me (the versions on Yessongs are better IMO). The early Genesis music is marked by the contrast or conflict between Banks' lyrical and harmonically-interesting chord structures, Rutherford and Hackett's beautiful guitar compositions and Gabriel's perverse, dark & violent sensibility. Yes at their peak were incredible and I love them, but they weren't as interesting or as complex as Genesis were.

[@SomaCoyote-z8l]

I think this might be true if Yes hadn't recorded Relayer

[@patbarr1351]

Yes, I think the *Yessongs* version of "Siberian Khatru" is superior. It makes the original sound a bit clunky in comparison.

[@kevincorrigan7893]

@@patbarr1351 totally agreed

[@blackmoofou6385]

My favourite part of the week at the moment, great work guys!

[@julianmassaldi]

I find Steve's disdain for Genesis unjustified, for example missing the extra quality of Gabriel's smart, witty, acute lyrics over Anderson's word soups, or the fact that Supper's Ready DOES have some structural tie ins, in rephrasing the 1st 2 sections at the end

[@julianmassaldi]

In fact, their later 70s output really fell into prog stereotypes of pastoral, soft, pad-heavy music with fantastic lyrics, while Gabriel added a darker, more contemporary and satirical edge with his lyrics, gruff voice and stage presence

[@julianmassaldi]

As well as I love the Yes albums he loves as well, but he certainly seems to give Genesis very short thrift, when Ian Anderson was putting across a very similar presentation

[@paulcollins5586]

Suppers ready works as an epic piece. To me its not seperate songs tied together but a great whole piece . Steves wrong on genesis.

[@colinburroughs9871]

Foxtrot is as good as classic Genesis got. I dunno that Suppers Ready is even the best thing on the record though. Watcher and Get em Out by Friday seem to be the strongest statements that weren't edited together

[@harrynewiss4630]

@@paulcollins5586 He's partly right as it was indeed made up partly of bits and pieces as the band have said (Willow Farm was inserted from long before, for example). But there is more to it than that and extraordinary quality of the last 8-10 minutes really stands out. What I would say is that Supper's Ready owes a lot to In Held Twas In I by Procol Harum.

[@marcbergeron8690]

To this huge 1972 prog year you can add Octopus by Gentle Giant and 666 from Aphrodite's Child.

[@tonycapps2942]

Whoa... shut up and listen... thats Steven Wilson... he definitely knows what he's talking about... master of the remaster... I bow and am humbled

[@bobby666666]

For me, Tull and Genesis have the ability to make you sing along. The other Prog groups were made to listen to in silence.

[@Eleventhearlofmars]

Definitely, I used to love singing along to battle of Epping forest and most of Tulls 70s albums apart from maybe a passion play. Songs from the wood and heavy horses were masterpieces as was selling England by the pound.

[@reginaldcampos5762]

Both are strangely sing-songy. Wind Up from Aqualung and Carpet Crawlers from the Lamb are very fun to sing to.

[@bobby666666]

@reginaldcampos5762 Borh Thick As A Brick and A Passion Play are great fun to sing too.

[@bobby666666]

@Eleventhearlofmars The initial part of Battle was made for singing to. A Passion Play is possibly the one I sing the most, especially the line about examining her body. Supper's Ready is great too. The original album release version and not the later album version which has some of the tracks from it missing.

[@Eleventhearlofmars]

@@bobby666666 for whatever reason I can’t get my head around the passion play album. I’ve tried, maybe it deserves one more chance. Mind you a lot of tull fans slag off the TOTRAR album from 76 but that is one of my favourites and you can sing along to that.

[@Barbaste]

You're forgetting Lake's hit songs on every album, here of course from the beginning. These songs were so big and still are. Saying close to the edge cover is better than tarkus is madness. I painted it with a friend we loved it so much.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

The entire LP design of Close to the Edge is better than Tarkus. Unfortunately it's been ruined by CDs and streaming, but the original LP is brilliant with the minimalist front with the awesome, iconic logo, and then the amazement as you open it up to reveal the inner gatefold painting.

[@PeterBaum-u8s]

Side two of TARKUS is relatively weak.

[@kratino]

@@PeterBaum-u8s Nooooooooooo. No. No.

[@albod9893]

Was hoping to hear your comments about one my 1972 favorites; The Strawbs "Grave New World". Absolutely loved this one and still do. Lyrically as strong as Tull's TAAB and for me a more enjoyable listen as well.

[@daviddodsworth1842]

Punters, ELP blows them all away , Gregs voice is incredible alone

[@taginsv-vo6xl]

Love the back and forth between you two. Keep it up!

[@arisfilos-ratsikas993]

I just remembered that several years ago I went to see Steve Hackett play Genesis classics at Hammersmith in London, and Steve Hackett mentioned that Steven Wilson was in the audience. Plus, Steven participated in Hackett’s Genesis Revisited album (he sang Can Utility). So I guess he cannot hate classic Genesis that much.

[@chriskozak7356]

@@arisfilos-ratsikas993 I think Wilson has stated that he really likes Gabriel and Hackett as they are, but Genesis as a band wasn't his thing. I think his biggest issue with the band is Banks.

[@thomaswery3087]

Love GG saw them in '72 backing up Yes.Picked up CTTE two weeks b4 seeing them

[@JeffCooper10538]

Hang on there! Works Vol. 1 was a key gateway to Prog album 4 me as a teen. Love Emerson's Piano Concerto + even Pirates 4 that matter. But ok yes, it probs does have a lot to answer 4 + has influenced/enhanced/ruined* my lifetime's musical listening as a result (*delete as appropriate). 😊

[@herbertmathews]

I love both close to the edge and Foxtrot and although Suppers ready is made from different bits I think it gels as a complete work and somewhat surpases CTTE in having more changes that work. Now The gates of delirium is a different matter and I hold gates and suppers ready as both equally brilliant. just my 2c

[@THumanQTip]

I'm a Crimson guy, but I CTTE is my favorite album.

[@sonofman4590]

Great show and thanks for mentioning my father Micky Jones’s band Man folks, I would love Steven to remix Be Good To Yourself

[@gozveri]

Mr. Wilson, your comments about ELP made me laugh a lot :)))) (39:38) By the way I totally agree

[@bobby666666]

The comment about the Persian Carpet has been said many times and is misunderstood. The carpet was not used because of ego or vanity reasons. It was used because Greg got electrically shocked on stage. He used it as a form or protection. I assume person was probably used as it needed to last. I quite like the cover of Tarkus. It stands out for me.

[@j9whippetchick3]

@@bobby666666 Correct! It was an assistant who bought it. Lake had just asked him to get something to cover the electrical cords and the assistant walked in with a Persian rug.

[@bobby666666]

@@j9whippetchick3 Thanks. I think he was more of an upstart in some ways. A great musician though. I bought the King Crimson 1969 Boxset this year due to it being reduced. Listening to the sessions and the Live stuff, Greg's playing is sublime.

[@iskye07]

Interesting to hear Steven's thoughts on Genesis. I have two older siblings that revere the 76-83 era, and I think I agree. Whilst at the same time Gabriel was doing amazing stuff solo.

[@norbertovelazquez7441]

Great episode of prog rock!!👌

[@wendellwiggins3776]

1972, I was just 16, only a year into having been converted into the Prog universe, becoming a fanatic and the beginning of my LSD adventures. ALL GENRES of music creatively EXCELLED, momentously from 71-73 and the development of PROG brought forth an incredible AMOUNT of exquisite unique recordings in 72 that would be unimaginable today. Great discussion & choices yet still one could go so deep into the intricacies of YES' CTTE that it would take writing a book to fully discuss. NEVERTHELESS, though you've selected the obvious bands and many of my favorites, I am sad to see no mention of FOCUS, VDGG (Van der Graaf Generator) & PFM (Premiata Forneria Marconi).

[@bowness1]

We do discuss PFM on a later 1972 episode. This one was for UK Prog.

[@wendellwiggins3776]

@@bowness1 My first time listing so I'll have to go back because I just noticed Part 1 which includes other genres. BTW I was never a huge fan of ELP because of your exact description & impression of them. Lake has some gorgeous moments but they unlike others did come off as pretentious IMO! Also wasn't VDGG's Pawn Hearts in 72?

[@bowness1]

@@wendellwiggins3776 Pawn Hearts was 1971. Surprisingly, there were no Peter Hammill releases this year. The great Chameleon In The Shadow Of The Night was 1973 and included some songs that would have appeared on a 1972 VDGG album.

[@jfmitxelena5093]

Siempre polémico Steven Wilson y sus opiniones de génesis. Para mí está banda es mi favorita y la mejor progresiva. Y es simplemente porque me encanta su música, incluidos sus abruptos cambios. Y la música esta para que disfrutes con ella.

[@NigelSmith66]

Genesis and Yes will always be compared as their careers ran very much in parallel, especially from 1969-1980. There are many similarities: 1. They both released their debut studio album in 1969 2. They both released their tenth studio album in 1980 3. They both recruited a guitar virtuoso called Steve in 1971 4. Both of their sixth studio albums are double concept albums 5. Their "classic" line up(s) featured 5 people - a lead singer, guitarist, bass player, keyboard player and drummer 6. The musicians are/were all very talented and played many long and varied pieces which "took you on a journey" I think that which band you prefer depends on whether you prioritise musical virtuosity and song complexity or song writing. I think that overall, Yes "win" on musical virtuosity and song complexity but Genesis "win" on song writing. I am not a musician but merely a music fan, but based on what I listen to and hear online from musicians, Rick Wakeman and Chris Squire and technically better musicians than Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford. As regards comparing Peter Gabriel/Phil Collins versus Jon Anderson as vocalists, Steve Hackett versus Steve Howe as guitarists and Phil Collins versus Bill Bruford/Alan White as drummers, the debate will probably run and run. I am not suggesting that either band lacks excellent musical virtuosity or song writing craft. For me, Genesis is the winner by a long way. In my opinion, Genesis never forgot about melody in their music. I would argue that their version of progressive rock is more accessible overall than Yes's version. Genesis's music is generally less complex than Yes's, but it is interesting enough, at times very emotional and as I said previously, it can take you on a journey. Tony Banks is technically not as talented as Rick Wakeman, but he is usually more tasteful and certainly less flashy. As regards song writing within the band, Tony beats Rick by a country mile. Tony's ability to write amazing chord sequences and chord changes is pretty much untouched to me. Genesis is my favourite band ever and I like almost all their music, but 1970-78 is their peak period for me. Yes is a band for whom I have mixed feelings. My favourite album of theirs is "Going For The One" and my favourite track is "Awaken", which I think is close to perfection. My second favourite epic track by them is "The Revealing Science Of God". "Close To The Edge" is next, although even with that, there are some sections, albeit brief, that sound to me like discordant noise. Granted, the church organ section in "I Get Up, I Get Down" is absolutely spectacular. However, two epic songs of theirs which I have tried to get into many times over decades but failed to do so are "The Ancient" and "The Gates Of Delirium". If I am being diplomatic, I might say that the music in these two cases is simply too complicated for my brain to process. If I am being less diplomatic, I might say that the music is overly self-indulgent noodling. For me, progressive rock at its best is the greatest musical form, but at its worst is pretentious twaddle. Just my opinion, of course. An interesting point that Steven made is that in 1972, he thought that Yes were more musically "complete" than Genesis were, arguing that he regarded mid to late 1970s Genesis as their musical peak. He may be right about this, but perhaps this could be because the members of the "classic" Yes line up are/were on average about 3 years older than their Genesis counterparts. To conclude, there is no right answer to whether Genesis or Yes is the better band. For me Genesis is, but I have no qualms about those who prefer Yes.

[@John-fc7wc]

I agree thT Tony Banks, while not as flashy as Wakeman or Emerson, had no peers when it came to composing beautiful Chord changes and memorable melodies. I am grateful that Wilson did his magic to the Tull and Gentle Giant catalogues, but I do not share his love for Obscured By Clouds nor his apparent lack of love for early Genesis.

[@NigelSmith66]

​@@John-fc7wc I love Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson's solo career. He is the "go to" man when it comes to remastering albums, especially within prog rock. He deserves enormous respect and of course is entitled to his opinions. However, I am glad he hasn't had a go at remastering the Genesis albums as I feel that task should belong to somebody who really loves the music. I think that Nick Davis did a good job circa 2007 with the green, blue and red boxes. I find that the green box - 1970-75 - is especially good because the quality of some of the first editions of early Genesis albums on CD was pretty ropey.

[@joaocalladomusico]

I'm a professional musician and totally agree with your opinion: Genesis is the best prog band when it comes to songwriting and composition.

[@mariojorgecaeiro]

Thank you for the brilliant overview!

[@patbarr1351]

@@NigelSmith66 Agreed! I like Nick's work on those CDs, especially the SACDs, although some say the mastering on the later '70's remixes was too hot (a different engineer did the mastering). *Trespass,* *Nursery Cryme,* & *Foxtrot* all had a muddy sound originally & it's wonderful that it was corrected with the remixes.

[@bobsbigboy_]

oh come on. Endless Enigma, Fugue, FROM THE BEGINNING is all brilliant

[@genestippell1833]

Yes , at their peak, was an exception because each member not only were great players but each had their own unique style. Bruford was a mad scientist on drums hardly ever repeating himself, nobody else sounded like him. Squire was another who was squeezing every possible sound out of his "stereo" Rickenbacker. It was squire who was using footpedals to get distortion, echo and other effects that provided the grit. It freed up Steve Howe from having to be the typical rock guitar player. Nobody sounded like squire... Listen to his solo on Yes songs with bill bruford. Steve Howe...he had so many influences from Chet Atkins to jazz to classical to the early rock-a-billy players to pull from that nobody sounded like Howe. Howe was not only a creative player as he blended the styles, Howe was amazingly creative composer. Then what can you say about wakeman. He embraced all the new technology and figured out where and when to use all these sounds. Finally, who sounded like Jon Anderson? Nobody. Yes we're a group of individualists and stylists. It's a tribute to them,, being each member of the band became a recognizable star, that each member knew what was needed from them at any giving moment. Having that much talent and egos that come with the fame, somehow they put the music first and made it all fit together . Each member oozed creativity. A little note about Tull...my first concert was thick as a Brick in 72 at Madison Square Garden NYC when I was 13... Let's just say my teenage years officially started that night. Huge Tull fan for years. Read every article I could find. As it turns out, Anderson needed a bass player after cornick quit or got fired. Anderson calls his childhood friend Jeffery Hammond who had played the bass a bit when they were younger. In fact, the three albums that came out before Jeffery joined the band had songs that referenced Jeffery... Anyhow... Jeffery had gone to art school to be a painter, so he tells Anderson "4 years, that's all I'll do, then I'm gone". And sure enough that's what he did. Now I mention all of this because Ian can be quite intense and serious. It was Jeffery who provided the levity which lightened Anderson up. Jeffery had the sense of humor, in an interview he said "I was the least talented member of the band, I didn't know what to input as Aqualung and thick as a Brick were being arranged. Plus I knew this was just a four year gig, so I had fun with it". Most of Tull's antics in those day were conceived by Jeffery. Look at the albums after minstrel in the gallery, Jeffery's last. Ian became much more serious, most of the Monty Python was gone. But Jeffery, whatever he lacked in playing ability he made up with in charisma, in spades. Live on stage he was in perpetual motion and only verdine white of earth wind and fire could equal his stage presence.

[@baraovandermor]

I save time on that, from 1972 till today, always Perter Hammill.

[@jimhardiman3836]

Matching Mole is a play of words on the French translation of Soft Machine: machine mou

[@HarryBartok-e6x]

I bought nearly all of these albums. I was 14/15 in 1972. Close to the Edge was brilliant. I bought Thick as a Brick, but always felt it was overrated. I still love Seventh Sojourn, Obscured, Trilogy, and Octopus. I saw Gentle Giant in 1974, they were an acquired taste. I had a girlfriend at uni in 1975 who owned the album and got me into the band. It was the music of my youth so it was all good.

[@eirikasbjrnberg8753]

Very good discussion . My first album was “aerosol great machine “ by VDGG and second a Who best of in 72 , thereafter Genesis “Lamb … “ . I do , as Steve say, like Genesis but I too have some challenges with whole albums. I do think Yes had a row off 3 great albums that still are among the best in Prog . I just bought a 10 album Gentle Giant live. Quite nerdy , but fun

[@originalsynthesist2268]

I can't bear the idiocy toward my favorite record of all time, TRILOGY.

[@PianoDentist]

I completely love the hooky, poppy parts and interludes in close to the edge, not so much the rest of it. My favorite track overall is Siberian khatru. More of a Genesis fan myself, but got into Yes many years later. Obscured by clouds is in my Floyd top 3.

[@nectarinedreams7208]

Obscured by Clouds is overrated by Floyd heads imo. They're my favourite band but boy is that album mediocre. It was a rushed side project while they focused their attention on making Dark Side. A couple really nice songs.

[@davidevens2954]

Tim: the thing about Love Beach is, if you put the side-long epic on the first side, give it a different cover... that's a ELP classic. Steven: Let's draw a line under progressive rock.

[@user-rs7ue2hk4v]

I admire ELP for being outrageous and not apologizing to anyone about it. I really like Brain Salad Surgery and Pictures at an Exhibition. But....Tarkus???? Not sure about because I haven't actually sat down and listened to the whole thing. I have heard some prog rock lovers who adore it. Love Beach was just out and out embarrassing and beneath them.

[@kratino]

Tarkus is phenomenal. And Love Beach has only one or two stinkers. The rest is very good.

[@eirikasbjrnberg8753]

Very good discussion . My first album was “aerosol great machine “ by VDGG and second a Who best of in 72 , thereafter Genesis “Lamb … “ . I do , as Steve say, like Genesis but I too have some challenges with whole albums. I do think Yes had a row off 3 great albums that still are among the best in Prog . I just bought a 10 album Gentle Giant live. Quite nerdy , but fun . Ps Gentle Giants live album “Playing the Fool” is a classic prog live album and less dry than their studio album

[@kenmeyerjr57]

I was so disappointed that Squire did not do some real followups to Fish...I love his voice there.

[@hpatss4966]

Suppers ready does have a recapitulation of early sections at the end. Wasn’t echoes just a strung together collection of bits? What an argument

[@robinwatson4282]

My sentiments exactly.

[@PeterBaum-u8s]

ELP had one thing the other prog bands didn't: the most exciting rock show I've ever seen. (although early Genesis was fantastic)

[@clf2366]

Tull?

[@rk41gator]

While ELP were dynamic and enthralling, they paled in comparison to Genesis. Genesis' ability to orchestrate their light show to the music was only equaled by Pink Floyd. Subtle, extravagant and sophisticated, Genesis was unique! Combine that light show with Phil Collins' charisma and ability to entertain and Genesis had no equals.

[@kratino]

@@rk41gator You saw them both?

[@rk41gator]

@@kratino Yes, and Pink Floyd (and Blue Oyster Cult). I feel blessed.

[@jswissman702]

Nektar's A Tab In The Ocean came out in 72. Their first six albums were fantastic.

[@yes_head]

Trevor Horn has recently said that Chris Squire was the best live backup singer he'd ever worked with. And I completely agree that Genesis was a much easier band to imitate than Yes, and were therefore responsible for a lot of sub-par Genesis wannabes during the 80's and 90's. Also, while I agree with most of the criticisms about ELP, all I need to do is re-listen to 'Pictures at an Exhibition' to remind myself about why they were actually a pretty special group. Talk about a band locked in together, just going for it.

[@dmoni2837]

Glad I was able to experience foxtrot and close to the edge irl

[@itayshani3614]

Another excellent 1972 prog album (though not 100% pure prog) is Rare Bird's Epic Forest. Beautiful harmonies, beautiful music. If even Flash was mentioned, they surely worth a mention too. I wonder if Wilson is aware of them

[@bjack1547]

Excellent chat

[@drimblewedge2789]

I was 12 in 1972 when I heard The Yes Album. First thing I thought was, “Wow, Joni Mitchell is doing rock now with The Beach Boys singing back up?”

[@BenTevikMusic]

Couldn’t agree more with Steven about Yes and Genesis, he articulated my thoughts on both bands perfectly. If Genesis didn’t have so many imitators then I’m sure I would enjoy them much more. Still great though. But Yes is really the greatest, especially in ‘72.

[@hectorrobinson7330]

Loved the episode guys - so many classic albums! Steven where is your t-shirt from I love it!

[@ClichéGuevara-2814]

1972 - Eminent year for Mr Eddie Offord.

[@quantiquefilms]

I really like these two geeks 🤓

[@markusfredscholl]

Gabriel had an old man‘s voice? What??? Soulful I‘d say.

[@charleskramer1120]

I think an element you might be missing, and you may want to consider more deeply in your analysis, is your own age and your musical tastes at the time these albums first approached you. Considering the vast length of time this series is encompassing, I cannot help but believe that Tim and Steven have changed over the years, as both listeners and musicians. If you first hear DSOTM when you are a young boy, its going to get into your DNA in a way that doesn't happen when you first hear an artist in your late 20s, or in your 30s, or even later in life. Since this series about about the very personal and 1st person observations of Steven and Tim, they must consider the WHEN. When you first experience a work of art, and where you are in your musical tastes and appreciation, changes over time.

[@vickyp.3274]

...Undoubtedly..a Year for Great Albums and Music!! Thanks for sharing Tim and Steven..🙏😊👍💯💎💿♦️💕💞🌬🌊🎶

[@MrLtia1234]

Obscured By clouds was actually made during the making of Dark Side, so technically the latter was written first. Two totally different approaches - one is a band effort with everyone working together with a two week deadline, the other is one person leading the band & writing the songs, taking absolutely ages. Genuinely, I like these both equally.

[@michaelantonyaustin]

I was born in 71 so only came to Prog Rock (as I discovered many genres) in my teens in the 80s. I came to Genesis’ early work through Marillion and Genesis with Phil Collins. After falling in love with Foxtrot and Lamb Lies Down On Broadway I looked for their contemporaries. Jethro Tull became a fav. But Jon Anderson‘s voice and lyrics more or less put me off Yes for life. I appreciate them and I keep trying to like them, but Gabriel brings me back to Genesis every time I need my 70’s Prog fix…

[@Emlizardo]

Regarding ELP's "classical pretensions" as Steven calls them, it might be worth noting the reaction of an actual classical composer to ELP's performance of his work. To include "Toccata" on Brain Salad Surgery, the lads needed the approval of Alberto Ginastera, the composer of the source material. Not without some trepidation, they visited Ginastera and played a recording of their take on his 1st Piano Concerto, which forms the basis of "Toccata." "It's diabolical!" he enthused, and gave his hearty thumbs-up.

[@feriboldizsar9815]

Van Der Graaf Gewnerator and King Crimson are several times mentioned as "references". (e.g.: Vandergraafesque...) I think it should have been mentioned Pawn Hearts or Larks' Tongues in Aspic, however they were released in 1971 & 1973