2. Projective Identification: The Object Relations View

Projective Identification: Object Relations View (Part 2 of mini video series).
In part 2 of this new series, Dr. Kavaler-Adler provides explanation and clinical examples of the phenomenon of projective identification, as well as offers explanation of differences between projection and projective identification. Understanding these differences is super-important in clinical practice and in everyday life.
Please feel free to contact Dr. Kavaler-Adler for in-person consultation on this topic by writing her at [e-mail] or/and calling (US) at 212-674-5425

[@breakthroughmoment1647]

This is the best description of PI I've ever heard. I've had many experiences like this with my toxic mother and had one with my psychologist. I have OCD and had an "OCD moment" in his office during one of my sessions. My gut was telling me to suppress the "compulsion" to repeat something we had just discussed (many people have expressed annoyance and downright anger toward me for my repetitious nature), but I went against my better judgement and blurted it out anyhow (so I was aware of what I was doing). He picked up on my discomfort and "ill-at-ease-ness" and deflected it right back to me with an angry retort, accompanied by a dismissive hand gesture. I immediately felt the sting and a twinge in my chest. I felt so ashamed. The same way my abusive mom always made me feel. I felt betrayed once again and thought he should have shown more understanding, being that he was a psychologist.

[@bastette5475]

He sounds like a lousy therapist, stomping on you like that. Evidently, your issue with repetitive behaviors annoyed him, but that’s not your fault, and he shouldn’t have made you feel like it was.

[@agniem9698]

I'm experiencing seeing my old self as a reflection in people I listen to. I have dealt with my past by embracing and loving my repressed feelings. And now I see myself in others or others through myself. In the beginning it put me off as I didn't know what to think of it. Now I feel love towards them like I'd feel love towards my. Strange but amazing feeling.

[@edgreen8140]

Innerchild work may help. But projective identification so primative and the clinician gets a small taste of what the client is going threw. And its useful to make an an interpretation.

[@edgreen8140]

Response to annie see above. I use the Thomas Ogden definition of projective identification.

[@BiscuitHead22]

This was really good. Thank you.

[@thewoundedhealer4950]

Wow. I’ve been doing a lot of writing of late, and as part of my research, I ended up here this morning. After a conversation with my mum yesterday, I went back to writing. The conversation did not end well; she cut me off (hung up). It’s not the first time she doesn’t allow me to speak, or prohibits me from talking about certain topics. After all that ordeal, I developed an itchy throat and a cough that I couldn’t get rid off. And then the tonsils story. That struck a chord. I immediately found myself in the operating room with the gas mask on, and then linked it to the Santa Claus lies (that I was as pretty damn angry about). I wonder if they did lie to me. Ie, not telling me what was going to happen and why. Probably. The memories of that gas mask, having to count backwards, I was (obviously and naturally) terrified. I remember (bits and pieces) vividly; the doors that opened automatically, the shared room, the bed I was in, the ice creams, etc. Memories that have been popping up every now and then in recent years. I wish I could ask my dad how that went, but unfortunately can’t. My immediate jump to Santa, I guess (for now) is quite telling…

[@Darterri]

This woman is brilliant... too bad not all therapist are as aware and understanding of psychology

[@griffibo]

I have to admit I find it a bit difficult to hear details which make this client identifiable should she look up her therapist on the internet...

[@andrewskater8813]

I found this quite confusing. In your first example If the client is unaware of the emotional impact of the sad material or is somehow denying how they feel about it, I dont think that creates a projection onto you. You seemed to have reacted unconsciously to the sad material and it seems once you shared your experience the client immediately owned their own feelings rather than make any attempt to keep them forced into you. Their defense was one of temporary denial rather than the defense of projection or the more complicated defense of projective identification which involves control to keep the subject out of awareness and forced into you?

[@richardwilliams9181]

Basically, it's that the actions and feelings of someone who has control over you can be acted out through you as a subconscious reaction. You can pick up traits of someone else for being exposed to them over long periods of time. You feel what they feel, because that feeling has been imposed upon you unconsciously. What she was meaning by her example is that she got a feeling of her patient who was trying to suppress feelings and emotions due to something that happened to her patient in the past. The projective identity is that you subconsciously identify as whatever has been projected upon you. Knowing you need help, but the only figure that you had previously gone to for help has made the impression of bad things happen when you reach out for help. Which prevents you from seeking help in the future, unless to come back to them. Which as proven in the past was not helpful for you to improve or to find improvement from an outside source. I admit it was a bit hard to follow. But this is my understanding of what she was trying to explain

[@citisite]

The problem is " into " not just onto !!! I think... 99 % of all relationships problems are "pi!" in this context look: watch?v=eiWJTPNHwdc

[@maryjanebrant]

A wonderful and informative presentation on projective identification by Dr. Adler.

[@edgreen8140]

Yep actions speak louder than works. The engulfing mother because she must go to therapy with female therapist. The therapist as the engulfing mother . i can give you two dxs based on what she says about the patient. I use Thomas Ogdens definition of proj. Ident. .

[@bastette5475]

I don’t understand the mechanism of PI. It seems impossible to me. How do you put a part of yourself *into* another person? Frankly, it sounds like something someone would say if they didn’t want to own and take responsibility for their own reactions. “Oh, but those aren’t my feelings, they’re *your* feelings, which you have put into me.” I mean, what? Talk about shifting the blame.

[@sarahw7616]

That's exactly what it is

[@1965TSR]

Brilliant and patient explanation.

[@almostlds]

she didnt say anything identifiable like " this girl named ... who lives in (city)"

[@Tribute2the80s]

@naitdane So I guess "mother" is sort of a metaphor for the caregiver who provides nurturance, empathy, soothing. "father" would then be the protector and the guider. More metaphors than references to actual parents with rigidly assigned gender roles.

[@christinadelacroix2370]

natural gender roles, but if you think 1000 genders and twin spirits and pansexuals is healthy and normal well you do you !

[@Tribute2the80s]

Why so much blame on the mother?