Today I show you a visit I made up to see Mr Mick Abbey who had made me some two stroke pipes for me to try. Join me to see some of Mick's top-tips and to see how well his pipe works Mick is available through: / mickabbeytuning
Пікірлер: 230
@badgerlc3506 ай бұрын
Made me laugh when Mick complained about his phone never stopping, Once you get him on the phone your there for an hour or more.😁
@johnnykjaersgaard79786 ай бұрын
cool that mr. abbey is willing to share his knowledge
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yep, he's a top guy. I had a great day there with him and Andy.
@att493566 ай бұрын
Damn how much I would love to work for Mick. You can see how much he likes his job for how he takes time to explain what he's doing and the reasons behind it. So much to learn. Also it's beautiful that there are grown people dedicating time to such small CC's bikes, and not completely driven away by big bikes.
@peterjohn31806 ай бұрын
To me I find 50cc the most interesting size to tune too. Especially the older air cooled ones.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yep, Mick really is very passionate about his job, it was really great for me to experience this first hand being lucky enough to spend the day with him. There's many years of experience there.
@att493566 ай бұрын
@@peterjohn3180 Indeed! I am more used to the LC ones mostly because I live where Summer starts in May and finishes at the firsts of November. 35° C and more. Mid July 2023 we touched 47°C. Need a massive radiator and two fans to run my 80cc at 55° C.
@peterjohn31806 ай бұрын
@@att49356 why do you run at 55 degrees C? I remember when lc Moto X bikes first came out people would "cold seize" as they needed longer to warm up for correct piston to bore clearance so piston over heated locally. But if I'm honest I'm not sure what the optimum temperature for such bikes is! Obviously the cooler it is , the denser the air/ charge is, but the tighter clearances you will need to cool piston by conducting heat to the bore then to water or air dependent on how it's cooled. I do wonder how this AC ar50 manages with cooling fins designed for cooling something with 4-6(?) Bhp as standard!
@att493566 ай бұрын
@@peterjohn3180 it Is a modified kit, slightly ported, tight tolerance kit! Not really suitable for the Road. I also have a second bike with similar setup but less fragile as It has 6cc more and more torque means i can not over do porting etc. I posted a video on my account but audio sucks! I Need to find a Better solution. For these engines i'd never go over 65°. On air cooled engines instead i have no experience at all! Would like to modify an air cooled cylinder to adapt It for my bike. Do you perhaps know any cylinder kit that has 40mm stroke, 90mm rod lenght and needs casings intake? 52x52mm stud spacing would be awesome!
@mattlennymoore2826 ай бұрын
Great insight to the two stroke masters work. Mick seems like a very patient and nice guy.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
I'm pleased you enjoyed. And yes Mick is a great guy with lots of top tips :)
@mitchellgould74056 ай бұрын
Its all area under the curve. Having that peak hold for 700rpm longer allows you to shift up with a 700rpm advantage when entering the next gear so a 2+ hp / 1 ft/lb increased midrange drive which will be very noticeable. Great video!
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, thanks Mitchell :) FIngers crossed it helps. The original magazine challenge bike had the T40 pipe and struggled to get 6th gear (it couldn't) so maybe with Mick's pipe I will be able to.
@nickywalsh84924 ай бұрын
Gearing is another aspect I find interesting, it's really another piece of tuning for speed
@AutoBeta2T4 ай бұрын
@nickywalsh8492 agreed, I need to get some sprockets ordered 😊
@klausbrinck21372 ай бұрын
comparing a 300rpm-plateau with a 1000rpm-plateau, I d say, the 300rpm-plateau is not drivable, more so, if you can have the option... Logically, one can say, the one with the 300rpm-plateau needs 3,3times the gears-number of the alternative... It´s not that bad in the praxis, but such a disadvantage surely carries over in the praxis (is very noticeable).
@everydaydose777919 күн бұрын
It doesnt matter what sprockets you got If your stock transmission doesnt fit your powerband it would still be useless
@TheJanakev6 ай бұрын
Mick Abbey. What a legend. He tuned 2 of my friends bikes around 20yrs ago. I knew the name, now I know the guy. He knows his 2 strokes. Seeing the piston box on the back of Micks bench took me back to TZR 125 and doing piston swaps ever 6000 miles. Blue and yellow box. Don't remember the brand, do remember the colours. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, I'm pleased you enjoyed it and got to know Mick a bit better 😀 I'm pretty sure the brand of pistons in those boxes is Mataka
@darrelltaylor45426 ай бұрын
Top result there Dave ,great to see you ,mick and scooby on the video all the old 50cc moped racing clan,we all still have that passion for them and our 2 strokes ,nice result Mick Abbey on the pipe build v nice rpm extension gained.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Darrell :) Hopefully, we can do something similar soon.
@DM-MCMLVI20 күн бұрын
@ 0:41 "Two Stroke Tuner's Handbook" by Gordon Jennings, 1973; I've had the same book sitting in my toolbox for decades!
@user-zp7zo3kd4t6 ай бұрын
Mick makes a fantastic pipe, has done 2 for me over the years, top engineer.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Great to hear :) Absolute gent too.
@steven-vn9ui6 ай бұрын
What a legend, effortless talent by Mr Abbey
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yep - a very top bloke is Mr Abbey
@john633972 ай бұрын
I have only just had time to watch this video through. I wish I had seen a video like this when I was teaching myself (because no one else would) to build 2t pipes , it was a long lonely road with plenty of dead ends and screw ups. Still, I have picked plenty of good tips from this video. What a privilege to spend a day with an experienced guy like Mick Abbey, most tuners won't let you see how they do things. For anyone looking to learn how to make pipes, this is gold.
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
Me too John, it was mostly the same for me with learning how to make pipes. I did get some help from a mate in Oz but learing to weld and how to make pipes at the same time took plenty of goes. My first few pipes had so many holes in them as I struggled to get the cone faces flat and then played the game of trying to fill them before burning an even bigger hole into it. Yes, it was great spending the day watching Mick. He has so many tips and tricks to make pipes easier and it was great of him to share them with all of us. A top bloke 😄
@john633972 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T I have just picked up a full oxy acetylene welding kit from the merchants today. Have not used one since I was in school metal work lol. Let see if I can make a pipe lol.
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
@john63397 should be interesting to see how you get on. From what I could see gas welding seemed to be more forgiving and quicker than tig. Saying that Mick has many years of practice.
@john633972 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T OK, I'm back for another look at the gas welding lol. I am having reasonable results. Main issues are popping/blowing holes and deformation. I am using 1.2mm mig wire as filler , this may be causing problems. Also Mick is using a much more aggressive flame and moving quicker. But yeah, gas welding could be the way to go for faster pipe building and testing. Its got potential.
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
@john63397 cool, sounds like fun. Mick did mention that you had to use the proper gas welding rods... something about carbon, I think?
@joemarchant14246 ай бұрын
That's terrific. Best vid I've seen on making pipes. What a great idea cutting the sections out of a flat cone - definitely trying that next time. Will try 22ga steel too, I've only used 20 before which is about 0.9 as I was a bit paranoid about cracks. Thanks both!
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Pleased you enjoyed Joe. Yes, Mick has some great tips that save time and increase accuracy. Do you gas weld pipes? I have tried 0.7mm sheet before on my X7 pipes. I could weld it with Tig but it was a little trickier. Gas seems to be a bit more forgiving - I'd love to have a try.
@joemarchant14246 ай бұрын
Weeell. I've only made 3, 1 test and a pair for an RD250, but yes. Gas is easy enough once you get the hang of it. I use a little filler, like Mick does to tack, which takes some heat away and avoids holes, then autogenous. On the small seams you have to whip the torch away so you don't blow away the ends. My set up is an old Smith Airline AW1 handle, and AW201 tip, I really like it. Works fine at low pressure for 22ga, anything thinner is hard. I've never tried Tig so I can't make a comparison, I'm afraid. You use very little gas on thin stuff, so it's cheap to play with too. @@AutoBeta2T
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
@joemarchant1424 cheers Joe. Tig is similar, I think, to gas but until I have a go I can't say. I can tack with no rod but I do need use it every so often when there's a bit of a gap. Argon seems to go quick too. I'll have to ask Mick to let me have a go next time I go up.
@joemarchant14246 ай бұрын
There's something relaxing about the flame whispering away and it's nice not to have to wear a mask. Can't believe how fast Mick rolls those cones, that set up on the slip roll working along loose to tight I definitely need to try. The baffle cones take me ages. I have serious mandrel envy too. Thanks again for the vid - great content!@@AutoBeta2T
@yamyam603 ай бұрын
Watching this video almost angers me of how much I could have improved the performance of a 350LC that I fabricated expansion chambers for, back in the 80's. I didn't have much to go on and dynos were pretty expensive back then, I only had a book on 2-stroke tuning by John Robinson. I used one of the formulas to fabricate the pipes and had them fitted to the bike. The diameter on the neutral chamber section was small compared to what you see today but it turned out to our advantage as we had reversed barrels and they had to pass under the rider's thighs and they got pretty hot lol. They did work and the LC was turning out pretty decent times at the quarter mile strip but it could have been so much better if I had the information and a dyno. I am 64 now, but 2-stroke engines still give me a thrill whenever I hear (and smell) one.
@AutoBeta2T3 ай бұрын
Hi, that sounds like some project reversing the cylinders! How much power do you think you had in the end?
@yamyam603 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T No idea about power, we reversed the barrels to get the frame as close to the ground as we could so we could pass the pipes straight to the back and on the sides. I think it ran in the 11 second bracket. I remember we had a 250 head with the squish machined to fit the 350 barrels, carbs were 2 from a KH750, we still had the standard reed blocks with the centre rib removed and one piece Harpowa reeds. The engine was fitted on an older air-cooled RD350 frame that I totally hacked horizontally and re-welded it. Rear arm was lengthened and welded to the frame. We increased the rake by heating the top tube supporting the steering head and bent to whatever degrees that looked good lol. Front forks and wheel were off a Yamaha YB100. Rear tyre was spinning in the rim so we fixed the problem by tap screwing into the rim and into the tyre. Crank was welded because it spun out of true (LC cranks are not splined). At least two clutch baskets were destroyed. We ran it on Avgas fuel and the only way we could acquire it at the time was to get someone that had a pilot's license for small aircrafts, then go to where the plane was and drain the tank. Safety, what safety? We didn't even have a front brake and when I pointed it to the owner/rider to be careful he replied: "I just wanna go fast why would I need it." Quite a character, sadly he passed away 2 years ago. I believe there is a KZbin video albeit low quality that shows us racing the bike I will put a link to it if I find it. We're from Malta and when my friend went to the UK to buy parts he went to Bob Farnham and when he showed him a pic of the bike he was impressed, he even came to Malta on holiday and to meet us and have a look at what we were doing. Great times indeed.
@Patricks_Projects6 ай бұрын
Ahhh, There you are! Was wondering where you went =) *sitting back*
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Patrick. Yep, still here... its been a busy time for me since Christmas, but I'm getting there now.
@Patricks_Projects6 ай бұрын
Quite funny, i planned to do a clip about design a pipe in mota.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cool. It'll be good to see how you go about it.
@Patricks_Projects6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T I have some rule of thumb that i do not let Mota optimize, and i might keep them a little bit secret also :)
@simonbertioli46966 ай бұрын
I love his casual style...so relaxed...fag in mouth welding... Don't see people like that in industry. He even has the same jacket as myself.. Gas welding great...loved doing it I am of the same age roughly and my workshop in the same state... special tools everywhere.. Wonderful 👍 Great video
@AutoBeta2T3 ай бұрын
Yep, Mick is a top lad. He loves what he is doing.
@KurttankT6 ай бұрын
An absolute pleasure to watch 👍
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
I'm pleased you enjoyed; I enjoyed the day a lot too.
@rogerstafford-wakeinc.20886 ай бұрын
Thanks so much for this informative and hands-on video. Really cool when you can get into a shop with somebody I’ve done it a couple of times. Love your stuff man Godspeed.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers buddy :)
@Trevorpartington-yc6ri6 ай бұрын
Great video..... I'm so glad I didn't see these when I was 16 and riding a bored out a 50 as I never had to pennys to rub together at the best of times :D I honestly can't wait until track day :D
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Trevor 😀
@robinwells88796 ай бұрын
I seem to recall that MZ were the original past masters of the 2 stroke exhaust geometry. Quite remarkable how such small variations make such difference.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, yes I believe it was. I have a book somewhere called: Stealing Speed. I need to dig it out and have a read. Yes, it's amazing how a.small.change can affect the power output. It's one of the reasons of why I first got into making expansion pipes.
@Shri27.5 ай бұрын
The legend of mick abbey , Two stroke wizard !!
@AutoBeta2T5 ай бұрын
He certainly is 😀
@PetefromSouthOz6 ай бұрын
Hi Dave, that peak power curve is a great result. Your take about this sort of curve helping you achieve your goal is spot on based on my experience running smaller Land Speed 2 strokes. As far as other things that can help, such as Aero etc. I found that minimising your Frontal Area on small bikes is the first thing to explore. Then base everything else on this smaller profile. Cheers Mate Pete
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Pete, that is really great to hear from someone with actual real world land speed experience. The original magazine challenge used the T40 pipe and they really struggled to pull 6th gear (it couldn't) so I have always been conscious of not getting too peaky with the curve and spreading the power. Noted on the frontal area, I have a nose cone for my AR but again on the original challenge they found it faster without. I need to get on a diet then to reduce my cross sectional area :) Thanks again for you insight and tips Pete, much appreciated. Cheers Dave
@mattcooper88826 ай бұрын
Mick is a top guy. Helped me out on the phone when fault finding on my self tuned/ported TS185.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yes, Matt, he's a proper top bloke. I had a great day there with him and Andy
@mattcooper88826 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T if he wasn't so far away, I'd ask him to make me a pipe..Do you know anyone competent in the midlands? Where are you based Dave? 👀
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
@mattcooper8882 I'm Lincoln but just do my own pipes. Abcon Pipes are based in Notts I think. Not sure if he does Pipes still?
@huongtrinh86092 ай бұрын
Thank you!
@satan1011012 ай бұрын
From where I live, those wheel worth a fortune! Ranging from 2000-4000USD depending on what conditions they’re in, I saw a guy that bought a new old stock from an old dealership and he sold it for nearly 10k.
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
Yeah, I heard they can reach some good money! Ironically, I want to use the spoked wheels.l on mine
@mickgibson3706 ай бұрын
In 1974 I used to tune 2 cycles. I had a 70 Yamaha 175 that put out 43 hp @ 14,500. It had 9 ports, analog 32 mm fuel injection, 8 reeds, and an expansion chamber that had a 8,000 top hp but I check it out and I got 14,000 the the gases did exit! I ran it in open class and got several first places. But in 1976 open class motorcycles were more torgue, hp, and better suspension!
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cool, that sounds like a screamer!
@1crazypjАй бұрын
I worked in a Suzuki/Yamaha dealers in 80's. Hated those little Kawasaki 50's, they were always completely trashed after about 3 months. (nearest Kawasaki dealer was about 20 miles away in Cardiff) Everything was worn out, shock bushings, swing arm bearings, seals, even the wiring and switches. Honda MT50 was impossible to tune (British market ones couldn't be ported to 'continental' spec of 6.5bhp) Yamaha was the easiest to tune and slightly better build quality than Suzuki. (was tuning 'Fizzers' in 70's, although knew a lot less so 63mph was best I could get) Stan Stephens was the 'go to' two stroke tuner back then and 'everyone' wanted Micron's on RD and GT 250's😁 Many years ago, I fitted a Suzuki RG125 'learner special' tank onto Honda RS125 road racer for Ian Lougher to do TT Lot of work cutting out complete bottom and making it fit Honda like it was supposed to be there. He removed all the fuel filters though and seized it 2~3 miles in when a bit of rust or dirt got into carb. LOL, it's probably 40 years since I heard 'southern shandy drinker'
@AutoBeta2TАй бұрын
Yah, I think a lot of 16 year olds didn't know how to look after their bikes! My first bike was a Honda MT 50, and yes it was pretty slow... slower than my mates AR 50 anyway... which is why I got one
@andycompton48856 ай бұрын
Excellent vid Dave very enjoyable, tops 😁👍
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Thanks Andy - pleased you enjoyed
@mricemantoyou6 ай бұрын
Nearly ready for a top speed run...😎
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
A bit more power required I think but getting there.
@harveyGTI6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2Thow much does the bike weigh?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
About 80kg as standard.
@knutkikut763015 күн бұрын
Great video 🙂
@AutoBeta2T15 күн бұрын
Cheers 😃
@nigelshepherd29706 ай бұрын
Brilliant video mate really enjoyed that👌👍😎
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Pleased you enjoyed Nigel 😀
@daviddjerassi6 ай бұрын
Great to see you back with a BANG wow 20 hp amazing congratulations what's next ?, keep safe love the video.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers David. Next is a vid I recorded before Christmas about the transfer flow testing. I need to get that edited and up then for some further head testing.
@z1berzerker6 ай бұрын
Great 👍 Built for a smoking lil 2 stroke 💪 20hp under 200cc... super solid... sometimes the ol boys know more than they tell 😉😁
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers buddy 😀
@miketee24446 ай бұрын
The compromise on a bike is available space and the noise you are willing to tolerate. A megaphone style exhaust sized and tapered for the engine displacement is just as effective but a lot louder. Some tricky extending stinger or water injection will give you a good balance of low end and still compensate for top end for those wanting to get crazy with it. Any 2 stroke stuff is good stuff..
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yeah, water may be in order if the power band gets too short. Hopefully we can do it without but it's an option
@huongtrinh86092 ай бұрын
thank you!
@TheDromen696 ай бұрын
Hi, I just discovered this channel a day ago and autimatically love it. I've got a purpose for a possible video, what about cylinders exhaust duct diameter? It's something that people tends to enlarge it, and I would never know if that adds or rests. And more important what exactly does. I just saw the previous video and couldn't resist to coment this theme. Thank you very much for the work you're puttting, most of us are concerned of the amount of hours involved in doing this type of content.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, I'm pleased you are enjoying 😀 I definitely want to explore the whole exhaust duct diameter thing. I have a plan on how to do it but I need to get a few other tests done first. But definitely something I want to cover. Cheers again for the kind words.
@cristianr37126 ай бұрын
Man great content, glad to see you back! Would be great to see speed attempts after improvements.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Thanks - good to be back. I'm not sure where I'm going to be able to do the speed attempt... Something I need to look at as I do want to go for it this summer.
@HPRaceDevelopment6 ай бұрын
Excellent pipe - wonderful video thank you. I need to become proficcient at making pipes, skill I don't have. The engine is really really rich on pilot/early needle. Probably good for road use and air cooled.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Derek, Mick did a great job on the pipe. And yes, Mick was saying I need to fit a smaller pilot. I do have some smaller ones to fit.
@tonyedgley37936 ай бұрын
Very informative video! Not everyone would be as happy to help as Mick Abbey, he comes across very well! It’s the little gems and snippets of information that I particularly like. What’s the brand of tin snips that Mick uses?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, many thanks, and they are Stanley
@markaddy536 ай бұрын
great video lad mick is your man noes is stuff keep at it ul get it
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers, Mark. And yes, Mick is the man!
@jamesgarrard43616 ай бұрын
Great stuff
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers James
@topfuelteddy6 ай бұрын
Absolutely brilliant watch with the legend Mick Abbey. Did he say where he got the snips from Dave ? I reckon you'll be buying a cheapo laser cutter next to speed things up even more .
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi mate, I think they are Stanley snips. Mick sent me home with them, so I'll double check. I would like a laser cutter... maybe one day?!
@topfuelteddy6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T Thanks mate, keep me posted, I've cut all my cones for mine now, but I had mega problems with them binding up on the cuts , these would do away with that problem. Also I can't believe Mick hasn't got a guillotine for the amount of pipes he's done over the years, invaluable for the straight edges .
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, I believe these are the snips that Mick was using. They look a bit different but I think it's because they are newer. www.amazon.co.uk/Stanley-Aviation-Snip-Offset-2-14-567/dp/B0001IWB2G?th=1
@topfuelteddy6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T Thanks mate 👍
@triplewood20006 ай бұрын
Nice. Have you done a run yet? Get yourself to a straightliners event. You will need good aero and gearing to get 100mph with 20bhp. We needed 30+ on scooters.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Ian, I will. I think 23-24 may do it so more to go.
@peterjohn31806 ай бұрын
I just subscribed, thought i already did. These are one of the most interesting videos on KZbin. Id love to make expansion pipes. Have you considered having a new liner made with just a single intake port bridge rather than 3(or is it more?!) I wonder how well it would work with a smooth bore throttle body and injection?! I hate electronic thoughbut you could have i nice constant taper and trumpet and thin throttle slide?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Peter, thanks for the sub and I'm pleased you are finding the video(s) interesting - it's good to know they are being appreciated :) Reference the liner - maybe one day... That day will come when it seizes I guess. Currently though the inlet port is just a single bridged port. I did cut a floor port in a previous video which gave some more power. I'm going to stay away from injection at the minute and see how far I can get on a carb. The ignitec ignition I run can control power jets an carburetors so possibly some electronic control. cheers, Dave
@exgtt20616 ай бұрын
20hp from an AC - cracking result!!!
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers mate - note however, it is a big bore kit and 97 cc
@Robis_Grigoris6 ай бұрын
mtx130 guys make over 40 hp on a air cooled engine
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
What bore and stroke are the mtx130's?
@Robis_Grigoris6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T 57mm bore and 52.5mm stroke
@Robis_Grigoris6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4DGZo1_ZruFocU
@wtm75546 ай бұрын
Hello, This is so cool 👀 with good result AT the end. Question: what's your dyno configuration dynomec ? Roller dimension,weight, final ratio ? For comparaison with my dynomec setup. Many thanks 😊
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers :) As for the spec of the dyno I'm not sure. Mick may be along to answer that.
@user-op2td8yx8p6 ай бұрын
Top man mick a gentleman
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
He certainly is!
@ericschumacher51896 ай бұрын
Have you ever looked at the FOS-pipe-Concept by Frits Overmars (there’s some images online on the Kiwi Biker Forum)…..he says it’s for thermally sound engines (ie: water cooled), but for one speed run it may be OK, no sure how safe without increasing stinger diameters and lengthening slightly for a lower EGT’s / reliability on an air cooled engine.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, I have tried a FOS concept pipe design in the sim and it gave a nice power curve, but as Frits himself says: it's just a starting point to then progress from with testing. That said I may try one of the calculators and maybe build one at some point.
@kraftzion2 ай бұрын
Could you broaden the area under the curve with a valved stinger in theory? Start with a stinger larger than you would run, test some restrictions in it,build a map like you do for ignition timing, install a valve controlled by rpm. I was thinking the heat in the pipe is controlled by stinger size, and sonic wave speed varies with heat,etc. Maybe having to get rid of the exhaust gasses or it just not working in this manner makes this idea impractical. Or just dumb😂.
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
Yes, you could. I did some tests on my race bike some years ago with the stinger and smaller did give more power. However, I got greedy and melted the motor. The ignitech would be able to control what you suggest. I was thinking water injection but a variable stinger restriction should work similar.
@danielthompson384915 күн бұрын
What you do now is go back in to mota and adjust the running parameters so the results match them mess with to pipe. I lost a night and ended up with 100 pipes on the computer 😂
@AutoBeta2T15 күн бұрын
I've made some rear cones to try that I tested in Mota and EngMod. I try not to play too much with the parameters to get the pipe to match reality. I think that is why my T40 pipe peaks lower than expected. Note. My real world dyno runs are on a inertia dyno and the sim act like a steady state dyno that will build up more heat into the engine, giving a higher peak rpm for the sim results.
@marcusbrown24936 ай бұрын
Great video Dave👍👍👍
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Marcus :)
@2strokecarbtuningportingin1876 ай бұрын
Haven't watched the vid but glad your back
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Brian
@2strokecarbtuningportingin1876 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T man bet mick has a Kung fu grip. Gas welding pipe making guru. Incredible. Grate job thanks for sharing.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
No problems - pleased you enjoyed.
@bobbyblueace6 ай бұрын
Traditional manufacturing methods still doing the business. 👍Will 20bhp be enough for the ton?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Bobby, yeah it was great to see gas welding. I really want a go now. 20hp isn't enough. I recon 23 on Mick's should do it... so another 15% power I recon.
@davidwickboldt7126 ай бұрын
That over rev is very nice. I wonder how the T40 would work with a longer belly (large section between the cones).
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi David, we did actually try that on the day but it didn't get into the final cut. However, we tried longer and shorter on the belly of the T40 and it only became worse both ways.
@broughxtreme6 ай бұрын
Had a chuckel to myself when I saw the old 2-stroke "Tuners Handbook" oncarb adjustments between pipes the bench. Did you do any carb adjustments between pipes. I remember way back when just changing the angle of a pipe would upset the mixtures (on a very highly strung T-500).
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
Hi, sorry for the late reply. No, we didn't, with the jetting, but we kept track of the lambda and it was similar for.all pipes. We did change the ignition curve from a flat 20 deg curve to one I had found worked best on my pipe. It made Micks pipes work even better so no more adjustments were made. But noted your point, both jetting and ignition should have been optimised for all pipes, but as always, we ran out of time. ☺️
@ryanharriss79506 ай бұрын
An AR!!, haven't seen one of those in ages...
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yes, a bit af a rarity nowadays
@bierbaum42846 ай бұрын
awesome!
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers 😀
@frankfuchs34462 ай бұрын
👍👍
@henkcox82126 ай бұрын
That looks nice Dave , but i think the big-bore should make at least 28 HP
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Henk. Yes it should be making a bit more power and it needs too. I'll get there... It'll just take a bit more time. Note - my standard RGV 250 made 56 hp on a dynojet years ago when I had it tested. Dividing power by cc and multiplying by 250 gives 51.5 hp.
@flakey78326 ай бұрын
I wonder what little dofferences make it so the powerband is wider. Dark magic knowledge lol
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
It should allow the bike to get into top gear without falling out of the powerband. In the original magazine challenge they had this issue. The original challenge used the T40 pipe design. I recon with Mick's giving the extra rpm range they may have got into sixth gear!?
@nazdagg19456 ай бұрын
if I wanted to go fast on a 50, first thing would be to lose weight. good video.
@jasondobney26236 ай бұрын
Mate just seen video am I right in thinking you are trying to do ,100 mph on a at 50 what size piston are you using lol I'm 50 takes me back to being 16 and mate the best we ever squeezed out of them with Autisa 93 bore kit was around 70 mph at it felt like 170 mph good luck to you I'm very interested 👍👍
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, it's a 93cc Autisa kit I have. But it's now at 54.5mm bore so nearer 97 cc
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yes, I had an Autisa on mine when I was 16... 70mph max but lots of fun
@cozydram16 ай бұрын
thanks and fried for help him fascinating
@robinbrowne54196 ай бұрын
That's why I like 4 strokes. A piece of bent water pipe is not hard to design. Lol.
@broughxtreme6 ай бұрын
That was meant to read "on the bench".
@carveracАй бұрын
Lost engine and especially 2 stroke arts are the shiznit!
@bananabrooks38366 ай бұрын
Are you hoping to ride it (Maccy Ds??) Is a fairing envisaged in the future attempt? as you appear to be getting close.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi no fairing if at all possible. I have a stunt rider lined up... but maybe me if I can get off the maccys
@hunter93726 ай бұрын
Very informative video, Can I ask what software you use for the printing of the pipe sections. Thanks.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers and I believe it's this: www.conelayout.com/
@stephenwalsh81846 ай бұрын
🏍👍👍
@ChrisHead-z3i6 ай бұрын
Another very insightful video, he makes it look so easy! 👍.. how do you seal where the pipe slips onto the barrel? I've got a bdk pipe on mine and it leaks a bit where it slips on 🤔
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers - and yes Mick does make it look easy. Years of experience. I'd use a bit of high temp sealant. Is it a slip fit? On my BDK pipe it uses the standard AR style split collar and gasket.
@ChrisHead-z3i6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T yes it's a slip on.. i picked it up off a guy that used to race AR50's.. he even had a watercooled one! Is yours a genuine Autisa barrel or one of the remachined steel ones that come out of a factory in China?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
It's a genuine Autisa. Problem is that it's on 54.5 mm now. I could really do with another but they appear to be like hens teeth
@ChrisHead-z3i6 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T wow you were lucky to find that.. I've never seen one in years of watching eBay.. so whatever you do, don't blow it up!! 😲
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
@user-ye8xx7gl3j yeah, I bought it from a mate. Really lucky.
@iantaylor55586 ай бұрын
my lc350 runs mick abbey tune and pipes.... has never run better
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
I bet it's great fun to ride!
@mikekenyon33226 ай бұрын
What was the tip size on the torch?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
I asked Mick, and he said a No. 1
@guidosamson6826 ай бұрын
So what is ormwhere is the difference in the pipes? 1 inch shoter tunelength or the stinger pipe diameter?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Mick's pipes were about 50mm longer than mine (T40). All of then stingers were the same diameter
@chrisjask88146 ай бұрын
Sounded like he was just holding the throttle open a little longer with his two pipes versus yours
@MickAbbey-jb5cg6 ай бұрын
The reason why I was holding the revs on longer was due to the pipes still pulling longer before tailing off
@AutoBeta2T2 ай бұрын
What Mick said 😄
@sydfussey64453 ай бұрын
How do I get my ar50 to rev past 7.5k is it an electronic limmiter and how do I get rid of it?
@AutoBeta2T3 ай бұрын
Hi, yes, the ignition curve on the 50 is very restrictive. BDK do a mod to a standard cdi also Firepower engineering sell a programable ignition for the AR.
@70sport376 ай бұрын
Gotta look at leaning the bike and front wheel travel .
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
I'm only going straight 😊 But yes it is a consideration. I think you would just be okay as it is but it is close.
@MickAbbey-jb5cg6 ай бұрын
There will be no issues with all these pipes going around corners and the clearance from the front wheel will be fine 👍
@eamh20026 ай бұрын
What RPM ranges for different engine sizes are used mostly when going for max power? I've noticed 125's around 12-14 000rpm and 250's at 8-10 000rpm mostly. If I wanted to hunt for more power should I set my port timings to work at a certain RPM and then build a pipe around it. If too peaky then playing around with other things? Its no rocket science but at the same time it is if you want to go into small details :) I heard somewhere that oversquare engines dont have the same pipe design as square 2-strokes (old yamahas vs modern every 125) Why wouldnt a modern pipe off a 30hp 2-stroke work on a 20hp DT125 for example?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, I'll give it a go at answering but I'm certainly no expert. RPM I believe is really down to piston speed limits. Smaller engines, shorter stroke so less distance (slower speed) for the piston to move at higher rpms. Also bigger cc singles have bigger pistons - more mass etc... From what I can see, regardless of timing the pipe tuned length plays a major part in the rpm of the engine. In a previous video I went from about 192 duration in the exhaust to 203 and the peak power rpm only changed a few hundred rpm. Port wise you need the STA for the power you want - particularly exhaust blowdown. Pass on the oversquare design. I couldn't answer for sure. A thing to note is that oversquare two stroke engines have less port area than a square engine of the same cc and port duration. A modern pipe may work but it comes down to the rpm range the engine has been designed to work in I guess. Putting a higher power pipe of say a road racer on a DT125 may make it rev but if the ports don't have the area to work at that rpm it won't make the power. Also ignition would need tweeking too.
@eamh20026 ай бұрын
Okay thanks for the long answer :) We just tried an exc125 pipe on a dt125 with my friend over 10years ago and it was super peaky at super high RPM, I even got 143km/h on the GPS with it so it definitely made more power than stock. The DT cylinder also has a longer exhaust duration than a 1988 yz125 if I remember correctly which is weird to me :) Both are 56mm bore or the yz could be 56,4 with 50.0 stroke where the 1989 onwards DT is 50.7 stroke and 56.0 piston. Cheers :)@@AutoBeta2T
@user-wl4tv5kb7t6 ай бұрын
In that cc you can go at least 30+ horse power if you want
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Maybe... I recon 25 - 26... I have a really short Stroke of 41.6mm which hinders time.area
@jpmorgen57266 ай бұрын
I would be curious to see the difference with a stamped header...?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Me to! I will at some point try a cone header verses a hydroformed one. Not stamped I know but close.
@kaddymorgan1625Ай бұрын
Is this pipe usefull for 4 stroke?
@AutoBeta2TАй бұрын
Hi, no, only a two stroke. That said 4 strokes do make use of divergent and convergence ducts. Have a look.at megaphone exhausts.
@janes-e3786 ай бұрын
Stan Stephens tuning is the best in the business as far as im concerned..🎉
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Is he still tuning?
@duggers9996 ай бұрын
Did you work on the bike mags at emap / Bauer?
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Nope. I did however, make the pipe for the Practical Sports Bike magazine article's detailing the 100mph moped challenge
@sidecarbod14416 ай бұрын
Hurray, another 'fastest 'ped' ever vid! 😀
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yep - I'm getting there 😀
@aurelioquijorna40816 ай бұрын
Fantástico!!!!:):)
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
obrigado
@MrH2506 ай бұрын
What cc is it? I had a 80cc with a 93cc big bore kit on it in 1988.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi, it's on an Autsia 93cc kit but it's on a 54.5mm bore so nearer 97cc
@flufflesflamer016 ай бұрын
mint !
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers buddy :)
@danielthompson384915 күн бұрын
At a guess Mr Abby’s pipe is shorter than the others
@AutoBeta2T15 күн бұрын
Hi, it was actually longer by about 50mm My T40 pipe always acted a bit weird, as if it was longer. It was made for a AM6 race engine, but it wouldn't rev, however it worked okay with the AR93... but it can hopefully be improved.
@danielthompson384915 күн бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T must be a lot fatter and higher volume Also sounds like a lot of ignition Any more than 14deg at peak and would expect it to melt
@AutoBeta2T12 күн бұрын
Not sure about the volume difference, I'd need to have a look at that. Yeah, I've heard 14 deg is about max but it seems to like a bit more. I'll have to keep a close eye on it for real testing though. There will be a lot more heat going into it at wot on long runs.
@danielthompson384911 күн бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T would if it hasn’t melted with more than 14 deg at peak then you haven’t got much compression But then to much also kills rpm. With the karts ther. Lads are up at 50hp for the 125 reeds and 104hp for the 250 twins
@danielthompson384911 күн бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T best idea is to modify mota to match the real world. And base any changes on that
@catslife55016 ай бұрын
Good work!! Only thing I feel is not really OK, smoking on the video. We want to discourage young ones from that filthy habit.
@BigBadLoneWolf6 ай бұрын
I bought an AR125 in 1983. at the first service the fork stanchions were replaced due to pitting from the rust. other faults were kick start stop wearing, went through 3 different kick starts, gear linkage wore through, rotary disc disintegrated, the resulting carbon fibres punctured the water pump seal and it needed a complete engine strip. probably the worst bike I have ever owned
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Bugger, sounds like a bit of a lemon! Bits for them are like hens teeth nowadays.
@alanrichardson16726 ай бұрын
That workshop is a tip. When I see a workshop in that state it creates a bad impression. 😯
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Hi Alan, never judge a book by it's cover 😀
@philouphil6 ай бұрын
so mota x works to calculate pots
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
It does pipes and ports.
@bilbobaggins43666 ай бұрын
Someone pjt a mcdonalds in a cupboard for 24 years and it never went mouldy someone else did it for over a year and both never rotted
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Must be all of the wholesome goodness inside every McDonald's 😂
@iancooper56156 ай бұрын
Dave, i have lots of oxy acetylene torches for you, please don’t buy any and i will donate some this friday when i see you 💪🏼
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers mate 👍👌😀 Catch you Friday
@yeahitskimmel6 ай бұрын
Ya know it would be easier to hit 100mph with a smaller rider... On a totally unrelated note, I'm only ~135lbs and good on experimental bikes that were never intended to go that fast
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Yeah, noted. I have a mate who doesn't eat much and runs a lot so maybe he could be the stunt rider. Believe it or not I was about 140lbs in my prime but quite a bit more now! Maybe I should do a get to 140lb challenge!?
@rogerstafford-wakeinc.20886 ай бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4mwqmd9pKunhqMsi=-UjZ8Vau7PfwvCG_ Maybe this will work for you. After doing it I would probably have tried to push the flow in a different direction somewhat to get the exhaust out faster.I don’t have a dyno so actual testing wasn’t possible but I would say 5-8 mph increase.
@AutoBeta2T6 ай бұрын
Cheers Roger - so a noticeable improvement then!
@rogerstafford-wakeinc.20886 ай бұрын
@@AutoBeta2T yes whether it was because of the case being stuffed in a sense I can’t honestly say my opinion would be, though that beyond the increase pressure volume the flow can be directed. It would just take some fine tuning. I worked with a couple of people on this idea in the first place and came up with it because they told me that I couldn’t change the flow with a heavier journal or a lighter journal and there was no other option that I could realize at the time. I know it’s a crude video but hopefully you can makes sense of it.