2 Ways to Simplify Analog Hybrid Mixing

[@irecki1]

Wow, even summing through Mackie mixer it's sound so different (much better) than from the DAW

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I agree and the Mackie is actually a very decent sounding console. I didn't use the EQ or anything this time but when I have, it sounds and works really well.

[@irecki1]

But the Sapphyre with busses and compression was totally other league! @@TwinCreekAudio

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@irecki1 it really doesn't need the compressors to add some nice saturation to the mix. This console sounds as big as it looks. Lol

[@ET2carbon]

I'm telling you

[@SaintLuminus]

Man, I can't get over how much better the mix sounded through the Mackie. That is truly surprising. Thanks for making this vid

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I have never understood why some people dislike the Mackie 8 Bus. I used all the time in commercial studios in the 90s and always had good luck with them. I think a lot of the sound comes from the summing amps they used. The preamps and EQ aren't bad either especially for the price they sell for now.

[@anaiybeatx]

Thanks for the video wow is amazing how the Mackie adds more depth to the song 😮

[@TwinCreekAudio]

The Mackie really sounds great and mine isn't in that good of condition. It's still quiet and the controls aren't scratchy or anything. It has rust and wear and tear but all I had to do was clean it up and clean the ribbon cable connections and it's nearly 100%

[@anaiybeatx]

That's great work done,It's sounds great 👍

[@kevinlentz7604]

❤your hard work

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@kevinlentz7604Thank you so much!

[@acollectionofdaves]

Good video showing the benefits that outboard can bring! 🙌

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I like plugins but I still can't get them to do the same thing that analog gear does.

[@schance1666]

Definitely the console. So much more interesting to listen to than the ITB mix, a lot more body, depth and excitement.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

In 2008, I sold my 24 track tape machine and went digital but kept using a console for tracking monitoring. I got the Soundcraft in 2019 and started trying to do more hybrid mixing with my console. I could immediately tell a difference and mixes come together in half the time or less.

[@schance1666]

@@TwinCreekAudio Yeah, its crazy people don't recognize the difference immediately. Would be cool to hear you do a back-to-back comparison, where you switch between the two multiple times. Anyway, just got my Soundcraft 600 32ch out of storage and setting things up, yahoo! Thanks for the vid!!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@schance1666 I'll definitely do a direct comparison video. I think I've made a few like that before but it's been awhile. The Soundcraft 600 is another good one. I'm sure you'll be enjoying that.

[@ggoohhnnjjaalltt]

The Mackie summed version had some surprising mojo.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

It had been a long time since I used a Mackie and it was surprisingly good. I like using the EQ even though I didn't use it in this video.

[@JoeMengis]

Thanks for this. Helpful to see your workflow.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! I like making the videos to help people with analog-hybrid setups. I started with analog in the 80s and have used a lot of different methods for recording and mixing that I want to share in my videos.

[@ET2carbon]

I like your idea of using a little separate interface as your reverb buss send effect. I have a universal audio 2ch and a Steinberg ur22c I'm going to do that with. Appreciate you saving me a couple hundred on some old rack piece with old algorithms. I should add for others, use the interfaces with built in DSP no latency devices for this case

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Latency with newer interfaces isn't as big of an issue. With time based effects like reverb and delay, latency isn't as big of an issue and almost any decent interface can be used. The EVO I used is pretty new and worked great!

[@macavree9464]

Cool beans! 👍🏽

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Helping keep analog alive!

[@franciscolaboy3886]

I am very grateful of your videos. I bought a uphoria 1820 and a mackie 32-8 bus mixer. Would there be any chance for a video where you show the cables inserted at both the box and at the mixer? That would help me greatly. I’m not an engineer so I am learning as I go.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I have a video like that using the Soundtracs Topaz which is quite similar to the Mackie 8 Bus as far as set up. I'm not able to make new videos right now but I was planning on a how to video like that with the Mackie if I still have it after the studio move that I'm trying to do this summer.

[@OkMarionPark]

Hey thanks for the video, you’ve helped me get this Mackie 32.8 console up and running. Two quick questions because I could not find a video on it. Would you mind sharing how you route the inputs and outputs in protools and/or logic. In protools: What I have done is sent each of these to busses > DRUMS to output 1/2, VOX to 5/6 MUSIC to 7/8 KICK AND BASS to 9/10 > tape in on the Mackie. I set up the Main L and Main R of the Mackie on the top outputs to inputs 3/4 on my Clarett 8Pre to record in. My monitors are connected to Mix B. Is this correct. How does this look in protools sometimes I can get this to work and other times I’m not sure why there isn’t any sound. I press the source and flip the trim and turn the mix L/R off to print. 2. Is how do I gain stage it to print at a correct level. And when I am printing can you monitor loud at the same time. Thanks for your time - Marion

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I'll see if can help more thoroughly in the morning but you could connect your monitors to the control room outputs. Then with the audio interface outputs set up the way you describe, assign the channels to either buses or the main L/R mix. Make sure you select LR in the control room section and press the flip switches to bring the tape inputs down the channels. They normally go to Mix B. I'll try to get more information on that in the morning.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I don't use PT or Logic much. I have been on Reaper for at least 10 years. It should work the same way to assign individual tracks to individual outputs on the audio interface. To help more with that, I will have to look up how logic and Pro Tools work as far as routing to interface outputs.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Try this for Pro Tools Select the tracks whose outputs you want to assign, hold down Shift + Alt, click on the output selector on one of the selected tracks and choose an output. The rest should follow.

[@OkMarionPark]

@@TwinCreekAudio thanks for the response. Yeah I’ll try that when I get back to my studio, I plugged the monitor into the control room outputs and didn’t get any sound. I did have that knob turned up, wondering if there was a switch I should have hit after plugging them into control room or should they just come on? I guess I am trying to get more fluid and understanding how to go from monitoring and then hitting switches to go into mixing and then back to monitoring seamlessly. And then yes printing the mix back in making sure the levels are correct so it doesn’t clip and sound distorted on the way back in. Thank you again 🙏

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@OkMarionPark you need to select LR or Mix B if you haven't pressed all the flip switches. The control room section selects what you hear from the CR out so that and the flip switches should be pressed. I hope that makes sense.

[@DJPHAROAHE]

Awesome Hybrid Mixing Bro 👍👍

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you!

[@Polentaccio]

The DAW simulation and sheen was nice for what it was. It def polished the mix but even just running through the Mackie to sum gave it more weight and depth. The plugins just cannot do that. I think running through the Mackie or other desk to sum and running that final mix even through plugins or some decent hardware would make most home studio or project studio people happy. You could take your final mix and rent some analog gear in the cloud over at access analog and have something pro (enough) sounding. It's a great time to be making music. I just wish more small form consoles would come out in the 1-5K range. I'm still lovin my Ramsa! The one downside is running effects. I find that can be a pain in the @$$. I like my Alesis units but on my RAMSA I waste 2 channels by using effect out and coming back to a stereo pair. As such, I generally use sends ITB for verb. I think a lot of people tend to do this in hybrid world.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I agree and wish there were newer consoles being made that had more channels and cost less. Built in audio interfaces are a nice feature too unless the manufacturer stops supporting it which has happened with some of the firewire mixers. I'll use some plugins in the box before it hits the console but I have to monitor through the console to make sure the final sound is what I want to hear.

[@MrNEWDY]

I typically use reainsert on all 24 channels of my console and record what I do with eq and inserts as a take. That way I can go back to raw track or just redo one track or use a plugin to make a change. When I sum it all again and record my master outs, sub groups, and FX sends for the final mix. At that point I only have to recall my master bus settings if I need to. Not a client seems like they're gonna want a ton of recalls though I just mix in the box and only use analog on the master bus.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

That sounds like a really good workflow and one that would be a lot simpler. So far, I mainly use reainsert with external processors for one or two things in an otherwise ITB mix. This seems like a great idea that I should try. I really appreciate your comments. Yes, I'm south of Lufkin which is about 3 hours north of Houston near the Louisiana border. In fact, I got the Mackie 8 bus in Louisiana for $50! I had used them all the time back in the '90s and couldn't pass up such a good deal. I figured it would make a great series of videos as well.

[@AndrewCCM]

I enjoyed this video. I go back and forth about every other month changing up my hybrid setup. Just recently moved my console out from in front of me (like yours) and over to the side using it much like you did with your Mackie here... However, I do assign into subgroups like you do on your main console with various compressors / reverbs too. LOL. I have the SSL UC1 and UF8 that I am desperately trying to start using more, so I have those as my main ITB controllers and leaving the console set to unity. It's such a pain to rewire everything constantly when I get the bug to change it up... Sure wish I had gone with DB-25s on my patch bays! Anyway, great stuff and hello from just West of you in the D/FW...

[@TwinCreekAudio]

My main console uses EDAC for everything including the tie lines for outboard gear and that makes changing things a little easier. I still have to climb behind the racks to change things up which I do a lot for the different videos etc. I started recording with analog tape/ADAT/DA-88 so the older workflow appeals to me. I don't have a good DAW controller except an old Tranzport remote that I don't use now that Reaper has the web remote. I have to make a lot of changes in my studio on a regular basis mainly due to making the videos for KZbin. I will use the techniques in this video a lot of times though sometimes I will use the DAW as if it was just a tape machine and perform the entire mix on the console using mostly analog gear with maybe a plugin or 2 for things I can't do as easily with my analog gear. I'm thinking my Mackie might be the start of a new room at my studio that I could use to more easily demonstrate analog gear. Most of the commercial releases I've mixed in the last 3 years have been done with the full analog or hybrid method though I will definitely mix in the box for plants that need a lot of changes. I think the other methods sound better but the convenience of recall when the DAW is really convenient. I have thought about getting some kind of a DAW controller for a long time but have not done enough research to know what would be the best for my workflow.

[@VULUFS]

Great video my friend

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Thank you! Like most of my videos with analog gear, this one took 2 days to make. Thanks again!!

[@markhunt1813]

I'd love to see how you set that up I/O and all

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I've made a couple of videos on setting up a console and audio interface for hybrid mixing but I didn't use my Soundcraft in those because everything is on EDAC connectors. That's makes it more difficult to show in a video. I'll try to find the others I made and post links. I think I used the Soundtracs Topaz for those but the Mackie I have now would be easy to demonstrate the connections and set up.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZ2wm6GHhZprpLcsi=z2qdfJJ7-0WWX4By kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIjQqZ6FZ8yhhdUsi=uT3kgK9KAgxSaZlm These 2 videos should give you an idea of how I set things up. The main rig with the Sapphyre is a bit more complicated but it works exactly the same.

[@poxcr]

3:08 why are the drum tracks all out of sync?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@poxcr possibly an editing mistake with the video but it was some odd beats put together with live drums that came out sounding kind of sloppy so it could just be artistic.

[@Nova-Spektrum]

Love your videos! Thinking about to get a Soundcraft StudioLive 24.4.2 or a Onyx 1640 Any recommendations? Greetings

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Both are pretty good console but personally I'd probably choose the Soundcraft. More features and higher quality in general. I tested a Spirit Live 4.2 a few years ago in some videos so you check those out too.

[@Nova-Spektrum]

Wow thanks for the reply. I am actually going for thge soundcraft . The difference is 100 bucks in my case (both being in really good condition) THANKS A TON agagain for your content. YOu are partially responsible for me going hybrid! @@TwinCreekAudio

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I'm sure you'll really enjoy the Soundcraft. I like Mackies too but the 1640 is still not as good as the Soundcraft sound and build quality wise. Thanks so much for watching! It always makes me happy to help people and inspire people to use cool analog gear. It definitely helps set the work you do apart from all the laptop producers. Better workflow and nice analog sound.

[@edjefferson9175]

The Presonus DAW interests me. The “pro” version i(forget what they call it) has console summing emulation.

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I would like to try that as well. Harrison Mixbius also had saturation built it. I have used it some and thought it sounded great but I have used Reaper for more than 10 years and know it very well. The Presonus DAW has always looked good to me and if they have analog summing emulation, that might be a good way to go depending on how it sounds.

[@joaoantoniovione484]

What I did sometimes was to split the console and save a mixing session parallel to another ongoing mix/rec session. As for the reverbs and compression settings, I went old-school-ish and printed some templates alongside the recording log (e.g. there are sites with the dbx and yamaha spx series faceplates where you can mark your settings)

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Those are excellent ideas! I could probably do that pretty easily with the consoles I have. I usually take photos but things like the Yamaha LCD screen are hard to read in photos. I need to build a library of templates like that and put them with the session files like you suggest. Thanks!

[@MG-se6nc]

Your Tannoys confused me so much. They have some cabinet resonance with bass frequencies? More good than Krk Rokit 6 G3? I using Genelec 8010s, i'm not sure about buy a sub or second speakers

[@TwinCreekAudio]

It depends on what style of music you are mixing. The Gold 7s have good low end but are only 6.5". The KRKs are 6" so a little smaller. I have KRK RP6 Gen 1 I've used for years before the Tannoys. Both are good. I used with KRK 10S but not always. For electronic music, I would use a sub. The Tannoys don't seem to have any resonance problems that I have noticed. They are well phase aligned and have more accurate highs than KRKs but KRKs are good too. Tannoys are expensive though.

[@MG-se6nc]

@@TwinCreekAudio Well, you're right, i thinking about for electronic music. I have Rokits 6 G3 but i didn't move them to another country. Tannoy Gold 7 and 8 more cheap than a Genelec 7040 6.5" sub. Thank you so much 🙏

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@MG-se6nc you are welcome. Best of luck to you. I think the Tannoys are very good. I also have NS10s but they make my ears tired so I use the Tannoys more.

[@MG-se6nc]

@@TwinCreekAudio I heard about amplifier is change Ns10m sound character so match is very important for Ns10ms. Some mixing engineers use with expensive Bryston or Yamaha P2500 , 3500 etc. and some people use with sub

[@mrshiney2]

Do you think I could do this just sending my sub groups to my Mackie Onyx 16 from Reaper and then just print the mix?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

Yes, you can do it that way by assigning the subgroups to different audio interface outputs that you connect to console inputs.

[@mrshiney2]

By the way, what interface do you employ ?@@TwinCreekAudio

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@mrshiney2 I have several different interfaces I use for different things. The main rig is a pair of older Echo Audiofire 12s for 24 IO. I also have a MOTU and Audient interfaces that are used for a secondary rig. Sometimes I'm using the main rig for playback and a second to capture the console out independently.

[@mrshiney2]

@@TwinCreekAudio Interesting. I am currently using UA Apollo Twin Thunderbolt going to pc. Everything I have been doing is in the box with Waves and UA plugins. The Onyx 16 I mentioned is left over from my old firewire rig into Mackie Tractions PC from years ago. But I found the hybrid mix you showed with the Mackie board very intriguing. But I do need more input if I want to record a full band/drums. I have never had a single glitch with my UA setup and am kind of concerned to change interface brands at this point just because it seems so solid. Have heard many good things about the new Audient Evo 16/8. Maybe pair that with a UA Apollo 8 for 16 in

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I have a friend that used to have a studio in Nashville and he loves the EVOs. Stability is really important with audio interfaces. That's why I've kept my older Interfaces so long. Also, I like the way they work and newer units don't have the same kind of software mixer to avoid latency.

[@eancurtis9333]

Do you think its worth getting a buss compressor to run my final mix through on its way into my Sony ADAT ?

[@TwinCreekAudio]

They can be very useful depending on the style of music. I have been able to mix both with a bus compressor and without with good results so it is really a personal preference. I usually use more bus compression for rock or electronic music unless for things like folk or classical music. It can add some nice glue and punch to the mix.

[@eancurtis9333]

@@TwinCreekAudio OK great I do electronic music...I was thinking of the art pro vla just to fatten up I like the tube sound

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@eancurtis9333 I'm a huge fan of ART compressors. I have 2 of the TCS that have VCA and Opto compression. They are absolutely great! Yes, electronic music would work really well with a bus compressor. The VLA is a great way to go!

[@brianmac8260]

Drums on ADAT is quite sexy. My brother gave me an old ADAT machine, then took it back 😠

[@TwinCreekAudio]

@@brianmac8260 you can kind of emulate the ADAT sound with an original MOTU 828 FireWire if you run it at 44.1 16 bit. I've done it and it sounds pretty cool. It sounds more forward and agressive than 48-24. The old 828s sell for $75 and drivers seem to still be supported.

[@larrytan73]

Damn, brother I was inquiring about some business and just brushed me off! All I ask for you to direct me to your website if you have one. Peace and Love!

[@TwinCreekAudio]

I don't answer the phone myself so I'm not sure what happened. Web site is twincreekaudio.com but there's no contact form or anything there due to constant spam issues etc. I work full time away from the studio so I'm not as available as I'd like to be to answer questions. I do apologize for any misunderstanding.

[@larrytan73]

No problem. Thanks!@@TwinCreekAudio