20. Nonexistence Before Birth

The Roman philosopher Lucretius argued that since no one is bothered by the fact that there was an infinite period of nonexistence before our birth, out of consistency we should reject the common view that death is bad. After all, he claimed, if nonexistence before birth isn't bad, then neither is nonexistence after death.

[@BeanDar]

I did not exist before I existed, and now that I exist, I want to keep existing, and I cannot. Therefore I dread about not existing after I die. I worry about not even existing to keep worrying.

[@juiceer3320]

Its a loop , shit aint right , just live by knowing nothing , noone knows where you go ♡ we all will have the same fate don't forget that

[@noraab5546]

from my experience, I existed before this physical life and experienced being conscious in a void of nothingness, and the next thing I was a 3 year old human. So it doesn't end when your body dies because you're not your body, if life ended with our death me and so many people wouldn't have experienced existence before this life or had NDEs, and you not remembering doesn't mean you haven't experienced it as well.

[@DCice13]

But we didn't know joy until life. Now that we have joy the second entity has a point where I won't be able to enjoy any longer, love any longer, or think any longer

[@juiceer3320]

This is utterly ridiculous to think like that about death or life , as if one deprived you from the other, whatever happen , oblivion of your consciousness or rebirth , you can't tell or "know" that you are gone , because if you did you are still alive

[@blizzforte284]

This is silly. If there was an eternity before you were born, you wouldn't have been born. But since you were born, it certainly wasn't an eternity. And since it happened, it can happen again.

[@juiceer3320]

Exactly , by logic anything that can happen will happen , and you happening is a must there's no chances of not existing, a is a b is b , the idea of nonexistence is not possible itself lol

[@naturalisted1714]

You get it 😜 look into Generic Subjective Continuity. We cease to exist -- which is equal to "before birth"... And what came after *before* birth? Birth. A birth... A birth of an organism. "You". All of us are "I" to ourselves. I call myself "me" and "I" just like you call yourself "I" and "me". So... More "I"s and "me"s will be born after this one ends... So that means there will be yet another "I" experience after this one ends....

[@juiceer3320]

@@naturalisted1714 When diving deeper in the essence of subjectivity , realising what the hard problem of consciousness is actually , we will realise that all there is , is "pure consciousness" , the idea of being (reborn) is both logical and illogical because we keep identifying ourselves with our bodies

[@ozzylogano6732]

I have a Theory that all parts of yourself will eventually make it back to you

[@23king92]

Past stretches back eternally what are u talking about just like a number line u go forth to plus infinite and back to minus infinite and u have a dot on a random number symbolize your life , both sides stretch to infinity delete your comment which is the only silly thing here

[@sorext9995]

if we don't experience it, we can't feel pain in it. Therefore, it is silly to fear nonexistence. It is not silly, however, to fear the cease of living if you personally enjoy living. The thing we all have to understand though, is that once we die, we won't be going back, and we won't care, because we will not know. You have to be conscient of something to really fear it. Fearing the unknown is different because you know that you don't know about it. Therefore, you know something about it at all, meaning you are able to fear it.

[@delq]

While I agree with the first part that fearing the unknown is rather an impossible feat since you can only fear what you know. But we cannot be sure if theres absolutely no coming back or going somewhere else after death. I am not talking about heaven or hell but we simply dont know enough about consciousness and what constitutes personal identity inorder to conclusively say if it would ever pop up somewhere else or not.

[@1001buildings]

I've thought about this many times. As the song says, “where you were before you were born, is where you go when you are gone”. I feel the difference in the infinite post-life period from the pre-life period is that you have left your footprint (however small) and helped determine the future - even without children you have certainly influenced it, (whether you're Alexander the Great or the guy who ate a record number of pizzas). I don't know whether that is a source of sadness or joy. But counter to that could you say, in a completely pre-determined universe with no free will, that you were always going to be born and leave that mark, so no big difference - you were always gonna be in that minute slot in Spacetime otherwise it isn't your universe?

[@Z3t487]

Which song is that?

[@naturalisted1714]

look into Generic Subjective Continuity. We cease to exist -- which is equal to "before birth"... And what came after *before* birth? Birth. A birth... A birth of an organism. "You". All of us are "I" to ourselves. I call myself "me" and "I" just like you call yourself "I" and "me". So... More "I"s and "me"s will be born after this one ends... So that means there will be yet another "I" experience after this one ends....

[@elliast]

@@naturalisted1714 what i find pretty fascinating about reincarnation is that we’ve probably already lived thousands of lives before we were born yet dont remember or even realize it and will probably continue to live an infinite amount of lives after this one as well. there is no real “self”. wuts comforting is the pain or suffering that happens in life wouldnt even matter because u wouldnt remember it in the next one.

[@pksaini4303]

​@@naturalisted1714yeah look into the new age cult "GSC" spreading by Theodore bolha. Theodore you are so naive dude !

[@sarahfinnigan7002]

Some people are bothered by their non-existence prior to life. I am just as disturbed by it as I am my impending non-existence…in fact, it was reflecting on my personal non-experience with the decades before my birth that made my mortality hit me. I’ve (not) experienced it before, so I know what to expect…nothing.

[@Joke9972]

Both periods after death and before death, are always just as long, no matter how long those are. 'Not having been'='not being anymore'. Of course, when the subject has no longer concept of spacetime... it never matters to the subject him or herself only to the ones who can either anticipate on their death or conceive the subject's death.

[@juiceer3320]

It seems illogical doesn't it , that's why people invented religion imo

[@janosikarmstrong]

The period inbetween is a big problem!

[@isaiahdavid4230]

Yes this is what is. Our lives now

[@delq]

Indeed it is, if only we knew how to just "live"

[@cosmonaut892]

😂

[@Clarkkent163]

The second my brain ceases functioning, I won't know nor care, I won't even be none the wiser, so who cares bye

[@blitz30034]

Both periods aren't the same. In the before, although the time may have been billions of years, that period of nonexistent ended when you were born. Now after you die. We're not talking about billions of years pass then you come back to existence. We're talking about trillions of years that will never end. You will never know existence again.

[@TheJbirddude867]

BroRambo!!! No dead person cares that they won't exist anymore

[@blitz30034]

TheJbirddude867 nope, but they do care when they're about to die and they do care all their life in fear of non existence and to say that "you" don't would be clearly a lie since you're watching this video.

[@valhala56]

Death is inevitable, so all you doing is putting off what eventuate is going to come, that is why this Universe is a sick joke on us.

[@shawnhall2841]

You put 100 mandms into a jar. Keep pulling them out over an over one at a time... They will eventually come out in the same order as the first time. It may take a trillion times a trillion years... But that order will happen again... And again and again

[@rogerkreil3314]

But one second after you cease to exist, you will not know or care! :P

[@KarlHessey-db6mf]

The only reason we know that we didn't exist before we were born is because we were told things existed before we were born. I have no proof my dad was a boy or a teenager who hadn't reached puberty, I can't remember his memories

[@mikah4051]

This is only a argument because we have the cognitive skills to discuss it. If you died at age 2, does life any any less meaning or importance?

[@dowilson]

Our start isn't remembered, but it's meant to be that way. Our end IS remembered, thus we are concerned and afraid of it. Non existence is impossible because there isn't experience in non existence, therefore an experience must always happen, no matter if you're in consciousness or not. It's a simplified version of this complex "host" (our body). Our spirits are eternal, and science is purposefully not able to find out what happens after death.

[@siddhantbhoite4667]

I think people confuse "death" for non existence , our body has temporary existence , but our existence as existence is eternal.

[@enexe6229]

@@siddhantbhoite4667 death is another for word non existence. you didn't exist before you were born and thus you were dead.

[@darkazurr9891]

i always thought this way , however logically going from nothingness to life back to nothingness means you went from nothingness to life. now logically knowing it's possible, then after death in nothingness ...... whats stopping you going from a nothingness after life, to life again ? it's been done before. my main question tho is... what in conception pulls us into existence and anchors us in a physical form to that space/time ?

[@triggabun]

I absolutely love where you are going with this. 🤌🏽🤌🏽

[@mfarooqhayat8182]

You were in existence before you were born. You existed in your mother's womb. So you were there, alive in your mother's womb. The only difference was that you state of sustenance of life was different, your state of consciousness was different.

[@xxxs8309]

So you will never know that you existed

[@eunuchoftheimperialcore7965]

the eternity of nonexistence before my birth seems just as horrid as the eternity of nonexistence I face after death. the difference is that I'm moving toward the post-death eternity

[@ericgraham8975]

If you're going to be materialists then what you're experiencing right now is the eternal energy of the universe. no?

[@rogerkreil3314]

One second after I cease to exist, I will not know or care! :P

[@isaiahdavid4230]

Indeed. It would be lovely if I knew this was truly going to happen..

[@elliast]

Exactly. You dont exist anymore there is no you anymore. It’s great to think about how peaceful that would be.

[@awakenedhigherself9961]

@@elliast wouldn’t be peaceful either it’s a terrible thought to think about

[@elliast]

@@awakenedhigherself9961 honestly u can believe wut u wanna believe. personally i find it nice to think ab just not existing, if u dont then ofc there is a possibility God exists. Its fine bro

[@awakenedhigherself9961]

@@elliast shut up

[@ericsilberstein667]

I’m okay with not existing at some point. I’m okay with human extinction. I’m okay with total existence becoming non existence. All this will happen. Everything had a beginning middle and end.

[@isaiahdavid4230]

Non existence is a wonderful idea. To me it means no feeling, no nothing. Just permanent end. Yes. It seems like this is likely to happen based on observation. If there is more what a shit..this is also possible but no observable evidence at all that is convincing or generalizable. But right now I am alive and I don't want it but I go on.. So if another reality is imposed upon me then I might go on too. Termination of my life is possible but I don't want to harm myself to stop my life. If I have the will to do it I would without hesitation as I have no responsibility/commitments. In the mean time it is comforting to know it will end and I will make the best out of this dysfunctional unexpected experience. If I had real friends and a loving partner or children I would act responsibly and would wait for my life to naturally end..

[@elliast]

honestly my only problem with non existence before birth is that im not even sure if i was non existent before birth. so im asking u what makes u say we didnt exist? because i keep thinking about there being a possible past life, where our souls were in heaven waiting. I just really hope that i was non existent because there are so many things going on right now as i exist, and the thought of once not existing then once again not existing comforts me.

[@osiris7945]

i question that just popped up to my mind 3 years ago, having no knowledge or ever questioning things that closer to it. where was i before my birth. maybe it’s not a logic answer that i really want to know about. but the feeling itself of darkness, quiteness, calmness & nothingness before the birth i’m trying to know, what was that. thinking my consciousness wasn’t there yet, my brain wasn’t created & i could bare the feeling of it for 13.5 billion years since the bigbang, that magnitude of period of time seems nothing compared to my 24 years i’ve spent on earth. yes, i couldn’t sense the time & space therefore 13.5 billion feels like 1 second or less.

[@KarlHessey-db6mf]

We have existed in moments, moments if joy if great fun and great pain and great heartache or confusion. We loose more than we gain. If it doesn't go to a cloud it's a broken machine

[@beforemidnight9450]

I wonder where was everyone today 1000 years ago and if that's non existence then that's impossible because non existence can't exist?

[@elliast]

if it was impossible then everyone today would exist 1000 years ago but they didnt so

[@komahinacanon526]

@@elliast That's the thing how do we know of we existed before that

[@zacharytaylor419]

I don't believe any sort of caring about it will be there after existence but how is the main argument not simply the fact that the life in the middle of the two states, creates a comparison we once were not knowing of and adding the anticipation of death. Consciously experiencing the idea of it is why its bad

[@nikosalexopoulos6542]

The lack of joys of life is not a negative of itself. Joys are simply the satisfaction of needs that biology creates. They are not good in themselves. So non-existence is neutral (neither positive or negative). Life on the other hand is obkectively negative as the only value is pain (that life creates) and any poaitive feeling is the removal of that pain. So the only thing of value that life actually creates is a negative value. The removal of it is experienced as positive but it not an objective positive. Life is a meaningless machine

[@elliast]

wuts so contradictory towards this belief of non existence before birth is how if we’re able to exist after non existence, wont we exist again after? it isnt eternity if we’re able to be born.

[@Freesurfer688]

There may not be a 'me' that was born and will die. This 'me' is always changing and behaves on many factors such as genetics, memories, etc. However, we can all say about ourselves that we are aware, that there is seeing, hearing, feeling and touching and thinking. But do 'we' own this or is it just happening? Also, before 'we' were born there were other 'beings' and creatures that were aware. After 'we' die there are other beings that will be aware. All of which are just happening. Life or awareness is always manifest in living beings. Life always continues. Life could be arising on other planets right now and other planets with Life are being destroyed possibly? The Universe appears to be expanding and this process constantly goes on.

[@Anthony-lr4bk]

Technically, non existence is impossible as you are made out of matter, which can not be created or destroyed. People think of non existence as no consciousness.

[@Clarkkent163]

But you won't be conscious of anything, of yourself, so it doesn't matter

[@musicislife6250]

Master can be turned into energy. Eventually, everything shall fade

[@broosewain1528]

Anthony not true there are particles in the universe that can pop in and out of existence so eventually that could be the case for everything

[@delq]

What does "made up of matter" really mean ? For matter really can't explain the constance of consciousness i.e. personal identity.

[@estrella-v1994]

@@Clarkkent163Pun intended?

[@BibleTumper]

I just don't believe that non existence before birth is the same thing as non existence after we die. Before birth, their wasn't any energy of spirit, soul, and body. I believe, just because nature of the body goes back to the dust, does that really mean that the energy of the spirit and soul has to follow the corpse. I can understand the origin of the body, but what about the spirit and the soul?

[@BibleTumper]

I understand that the body, soul, and spirit came to be in the mother's womb, but death isn't the same thing as non existence.

[@broosewain1528]

AJaXX JaM there is no evidence of the spirit/soul existing

[@wildmansamurai3663]

We don't have a spirit or a soul

[@countrymanrandylewis8463]

its the godamn brain, it gives motor function just like how someone when they have severe alzheimers and die vs someone who just dies think about it theres no difference. and the "soul" is such a vast and loose term and its definition nowadays is so vague.

[@countrymanrandylewis8463]

once the brain is gone thats pretty much it.

[@jonathanbuyno9461]

Maybe they tricked us and wiped our memory before coming to prison planet.

[@joeclark1621]

why cant anyone figure this shit out! It is cause once you experience something, you can not go back none experience sigh

[@kentheengineer592]

There is a Believe & Relavence of Why It Matters, That Suggest That The Knowability of Non Existence Is Debateable

[@ericgraham8975]

This video doesn't exist philosophy doesn't exist something something doesn't exist. Wow humans are so smart

[@Chrishagen]

I did exist before my birth… in the genetic code of my ancestors. Did I know about it? No more than I know about what happens when I close my eyes and fall asleep (dreaming only makes up a quarter of the time we are in the land of nod).

[@user-sr5sn8bl3n]

Oct 19 , 1012

[@aleksmartini4]

How about non existence before our birth was good as well as the non existence after this shitty existence. Wouldn’t that make more sense?

[@Satanic-Dan]

I hate life but am Afraid to die. I wanna die tho to escape but it’s still scary

[@naturalisted1714]

Look into Generic Subjective Continuity. Sam Harris discussed it in his latest podcast on death: The Paradox of Death. We cease to exist -- which is equal to "before birth"... And what came after *before* birth? Birth. A birth... A birth of an organism. "You". All of us are "I" to ourselves. I call myself "me" and "I" just like you call yourself "I" and "me". So... More "I"s and "me"s will be born after this one ends... So that means there will be yet another "I" experience after this one ends.... ...sorry.

[@pksaini4303]

And you will be cult leader of "generic subjective continuity"

[@ThisIsIt0000]

There is no you. Only existence.

[@CYNIC75]

Then who experiences the existence?

[@ThisIsIt0000]

@@CYNIC75 existence or what is experience's itself.

[@enexe6229]

@@CYNIC75 organs that interact with the world

[@gorequillnachovidal]

but you always existed before you were born...as potential

[@joselinema]

How complicated.

[@KarlHessey-db6mf]

It won't be bad, it's bad to think about them as a living being, they can't be anything if the theory is correct. From a living existings being point if view

[@melissakennemore2575]

Before you were born you were non-existent. And when you die you'll be in non-existent again for the second time. So why can't we remember this non-existence? So basically are we reincarnated back into another existence? The existence of the unknown is called nothingness. Only reason why we're afraid to die because we don't know how we're going to die.) ☯️

[@CelticVictory]

This is presuming that his initial premise is correct. It isn't.

[@ocamp6590]

Which is?

[@CryptoGenius686]

I don't believe that non existance is even possible. If it is, it would be neither good nor bad because you would be free from suffering but you would also be free from joy. If you were in a state of non existance you would be free from time because you would be free from suffering. You would not experience any time like we do here in hell. I believe we never enter a state of non existance. I believe there are only two options: heaven, which is pure joy or hell, which is pure suffering. If you are in hell you likely stay there forever and suffer prior to birth and after death. If you're in heaven you likely stay there forever as well and are in a state of pure joy prior to birth and after death.

[@zachwhetstine48]

ryan all you had to say was “I believe heaven and hell are real” jeez dude

[@Clarkkent163]

What? No such thing, do people think that the brain only controls bodily functions or something? Because something's telling me that it controls alot more than just bodily functions

[@supremeintrovert7404]

@@zachwhetstine48 haha true. Total word salad 🥗.

[@elliast]

@@Clarkkent163 fr bro. according to stephen hawking he regards the brain as like a computer, when the computer fails to function it doesnt go to heaven or hell, it just shuts down.

[@kevtb874]

Which were you in before you were born then? Heaven or hell?

[@KarlHessey-db6mf]

For that matter I can't remember most of my life so most of us with the average non super unique brain have shattered semi existences

[@Fang-dr3bk]

): this is so sad to think I’ll never see my loved ones again and my whole religion was a lie ):

[@joemann7667]

Calm down, you don’t know that and neither does anyone else lol. We have never lived before so we’ve never died before and we don’t know what happens. We get to find out.

[@elliast]

honestly it doesnt really matter whether ur religion was a lie or not. as long as u have faith really. so if u still believe that ur religion is true then its true, if u dont then u dont. its still a belief either way and we’ll never get to know unless we actually die. u shouldnt have much to worry about :)

[@delq]

@@joemann7667 the crazy thing is that we absolutely know nothing, we even dont know if we had lived or died before

[@wildmansamurai3663]

@@joemann7667 yes we do know that all religions are lies

[@santaclausdayo960]

Fk death.... I just wanna know why tf this universe even exists ?? Why there is something called existence ????

[@TheComiKen]

How about nonexistence during life? Now that's a doozy!

[@workgroup8081]

He's saying the samething I've been saying for years he's just saying it differently. I don't need a Yale college course to teach me what my nature rationality and intelligence already generated with the capacity to merely thinking.

[@davephsal]

This guy repeated himself over and over.

[@myrronbranch5090]

He capping he’s scared too

[@gamesandthoughts2388]

we are all scared

[@roop1801]

@@gamesandthoughts2388 I am scared help 😨😨😱