2000 Breeders' Cup Classic

[@charlesyoung7087]

I love this stuff. I watch these races once a year every time u tube throws it up there

[@sergewoodbueno]

The camera following those two great champions in the final stretch is the thing of beauty, very epic ending.

[@martinlyons9431]

Fusachi Pegasus, Tiznow, Lemon Drop Kid, Giants Causeway.. a future stallions roll of honor in this race 🐎

[@anthonyvargas888]

What a ride by Chris! Talk about the master tactician and knowing your horse and getting everything outta him! Still the ONLY TWO TIME BREEDRS CUP CLASSIC WINNER IN HISTORY!

[@patriciaguth6882]

I think Chris deserves a lot of credit here. But the next year was even harder for him as he says in the documentary "Tiznow Wins It For America!" Chris and Tiz truly were a team! Can't forget Jay Robbins either. His expertise as a trainer developed Tiznow into a winner.

[@ken45y]

Goosebumps every time I watch this. What a GREAT race.

[@rcg9573]

Gambling addicts with goosebumps. LOL 😆😆

[@steveludwig4200]

Capt. Steve ran his ass off the last half mile...and I needed him to complete my $1800 trifecta with TZ and GC...That was my "Let It Ride" race..."Let the kid have it...."

[@steveludwig4200]

@@rcg9573 Dumbasses that are risk adverse and dont understand.....Go away.

[@c.s.mcleod7383]

21 years later and this race still brings me joy. Chris and Tiznow.

[@seadrifter8975]

One of the best classics ever and 2 of the bravest genuine thoroughbreds ever..

[@noreenlyons503]

Hard to believe this race was over 20 years ago now and still gives me goosebumps. I remember watching this from Ireland and willing our horse to win, but sadly it wasn't to be!!. Well done to Tiznow and all his connections, but my heart will always belong to the Giant. RiP 2018

[@irishcowboy42]

Absolutely Noreen, his heart as big as the proverbial, the faster they went the greater he was, Mick dropping his whip 150 metres out wasn't decisive but certainly didn't help. The Giant is my 2nd only to the greatest 'Sea the Stars'.

[@steveludwig4200]

Capt. Steve ran his ass off the last half mile...and I needed him to complete my $1800 trifecta with TZ and GC...That was my "Let It Ride" race..."Let the kid have it...."

[@childwaters]

That is one big, beautiful horse. Not to mention the best carrier of the Man o' War/Godolphin line.

[@valerieteti1755]

I saw Tiznow at WinStar in 2007 and he came right to the fence wanting attention. I was in awe! A big beautiful horse with such presence! I wanted to pet him but visitors are told explicitly NOT to try to pet stallions. While I understand this rule I do think he would have loved it! He stood by the fence looking longingly after me as I walked away. He had such personality!

[@garyring1157]

Jesus Christ that race was STACKED!! at least 4 very important stallions in there, outside of Fusiachi P who didn't amount to much but what a field! The Iron Horse was truly a warrior . GC is everywhere in the modern American thoroughbred x x . He was a warrior as was Tiznow x

[@numanoid5665]

M.J Kinnane. One of the all time greats. He rode for everything he was worth that night. I screamed him home but he just fell short. After the three year old career he had I think I can forgive him this one and on a foreign surface. Great race to watch. Never tire of this one

[@julie-annquayle3877]

Think he dropped his whip with a Furlong to go,from Memory

[@James-b7p2k]

@@julie-annquayle3877got his whip tangled in his reigns

[@Velasca]

I absolutely love the camera work here. First time I've seen it like this and made the race even more enjoyable.

[@seanbush5056]

My dad just bought into a $15,000 claimer, son of Giant's Causeway, my personal favorite horse as a kid, ran 2nd & beat by a nose after a game stretch run. Reminded me of his dad on this day. He's definitely got some of Causeway's spirit...Really loved that horse.

[@steveludwig4200]

Is he still running?

[@seanbush5056]

@@steveludwig4200 @steveludwig4200 His name is Irish Hokie. Currently owned by A. Reyes Racing, trained by Jason Lisboa. Looks he's been at Camarero running a lot of claimers lately. Here's the replay of the race I am referring to. He was claimed after this one. Just got nabbed at the wire. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnjSaIKeeJqLitkm02s

[@seanbush5056]

@@steveludwig4200 @steveludwig4200 His name is Irish Hokie. Currently owned by A. Reyes Racing, trained by Jason Lisboa. Looks like he's been at Camarero running a lot of claimers lately. Here's the replay of the race I am referring to. He was claimed after this one. Just got nabbed at the wire. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnjSaIKeeJqLitkm02s

[@BitterBosh]

I had Giant's Causeway. Still, what an incredible race. Some GREAT horses in the field, indeed.

[@Dhoefflin]

Simply one of the most interesting races. Both Tiznow and Giant's Causeway are two of the all-time greatest horses living today.

[@uhegbu]

+Daniel Hoefflin Classic race there. Thriller.

[@SnidgetAsphodel]

+Daniel Hoefflin Yes!

[@tizfrreecharm]

pretty good stallions as well!

[@rcg9573]

Gambling addicts activity. 😆😆

[@franklinkellman7029]

Tiznow was so game he refuse to lose and of course Chris Rode a great race Great jockey

[@bonezzzz6330]

Tiznow never let G.C. pass even after the race. Only 2 time classic winner still and my all-time favorite horse.

[@seanbush5056]

I think Causeway got as much as a nose in front of Tiznow down the stretch. But give it up to Tiznow, Causeway is my favorite horse ever but he came up against a truly great horse on this day. What a race, what a stretch run.

[@bonezzzz6330]

@@seanbush5056 Wrong surface and still went head to head with our best horse at the time. Lost nothing in defear. Was a grass monster.

[@ken45y]

I totally agree. Giants Causeway coming all the way from Ireland to race on dirt on foreign land for the first time.. That horse had guts and heart!

[@RMoore713ify]

And the horse who held him off? I've never seen a more game horse when it counted than Tiznow.

[@roberto4001000]

@@RMoore713ify Giant's causeway was the bravest and toughest if them all, only list this because Mick kinane lost his whip, the horse thought the race was over .

[@bonezzzz6330]

@@roberto4001000 And still the only 2 time winner of the Classic is Tiznow. Don't feel bad because that was a great 2nd. But it will always be 2nd.

[@braveheart101]

​@@bonezzzz6330agreed, though it cannot be overlooked this was GC's first time on dirt, in a far off land AND Kinane dropped the reigns at a VITAL point in the race just as GC was about to take the lead! I don't wish to take anything away from Tiznow, he was a monster, a truely amazing horse! Just facts.

[@stevencooke6451]

Not the last time Tiznow appeared about to lose when he found more. Great effort as well for the valiant Giant's Causeway on a new surface.

[@jerandrasi5071]

the epitome of heart and determination. true champion

[@Patriot751]

A great race. 2 great horses just laying it down, stride for stride. Tiznow rallied as Causeway started breathing down his neck, he was at his best when another horse was looking directly in his eye. Man, what guts both had !!!

[@signoresantinoburnett1169]

When GC was about to go by Kinane dropped the reigns(watch Kinane's hands the last 1/8th). Cost the horse the win.

[@patriciaguth6882]

@@signoresantinoburnett1169 Tiznow's extra gear gave him the win. He used it again in 2001 to defeat Sakhee.

[@irishcowboy42]

Fantastic comment.

[@RosyVilla]

Love Tiznow! Giant’s Causeway’s stride reminds me of his great-grandfather, Secretariat. ❤️

[@fckem1000]

Us Europeans already knew how tough Giants Causeway was but Tiznow must be as tough as teak He looked there for the taking but managed to pick himself off the floor. What a great race and what a credit to the sport both horses are - both on the track and at stud.

[@Eddie18ification]

RIP Giants Causeway. A proper iron horse.

[@bishlap]

He was a warrior, how he didn't get past Tiznow is a measure of Tiznow's heart.

[@harpalchauhan428]

What a blood line rock of Gibraltar, Giants causeway, shamardal.👏👏👏 such amazing days then. Thx

[@harpalchauhan428]

@@bishlap true he held of the great sakhee in 2001 and giants cause way 2000 by a nose wow both times props to tiznow a true great american horse to beat 2 of the greatest of there times in europe.👏👏

[@bishlap]

@@harpalchauhan428 I know it's a cliche', but there is no LOSER when 2 greats put down an effort like this.

[@MILESnomore]

think TIZNOW was IRON too -- beat both SAKHEE AND GC by a nose

[@elizabethempathetic7]

I finally watched this after owning a mare by Tiznow, out of Chilosa, for about a year. Goodness he was excellent.

[@giantscauseway45]

I worked in ballydoyle from 1998tobout 2003 .I had the privilege of seine the best horses in the world at that time they broke the world record of groups 1.s they had a lot of serious animals .him and istabraq ..they just became my best friends .maybe people would argue .they have there fav animals too.but them 2 were my favourite horses ...a lot of people hate going to work when I worked there just goin into see these animals would make ur day ..sounds mad but true..I have istabraq .and the giant sitting proud in my sitting room...the iron..horse....the steam train..

[@leesanders6610]

What a great race. 😃😍👍

[@cobb5223]

Still my favorite breeders Cup classic

[@christopherduganberry236]

and 2001. He actually let Sahkee pass him by a half length, then he fought back. Crazy horse.

[@RMoore713ify]

My favorite was the year after--another thrilling, game victory for Tiznow. Tiznow had so much heart. I think I'd have to say he's my all-time favorite.

[@danielbarker6971]

G. Causeway ran out of steam right before tha line.!! Was a legendary race between two legendary champs.!Champs.!! Rest in peace boys,, there's a giant field in heaven even for a "G." from tha sport of kings..🙏✌️

[@victorrosario4494]

Tiznow was a dinosaur of a horse, he was so game in both BCC wins against both of Europes best!

[@randycoger2525]

In my 50 years of horse racing this race made me the sickest of all. I loved Giants Causeway at a big price with Tiznow second. It appeared at the 1/8 pole I was going to win around 30,000 to 40,000, but Tiznow dug in to prevail. I am a $10 to $20 better that had $150 in the race, but a $5 exacta saver made me a few hundred. The tri and super would have made my best day ever.

[@irishcowboy42]

Nearly a great call, your judgement superb.

[@mickey2927]

What utter crap. Please tell me at what point Giants Causeway was 200-1

[@samuelperezgarcia]

Indeed, that stretch run was amazing!

[@ElectrikNYCfunK]

and these 2 are still contributing mightly to the sport with all of their highly talented offspring they are producing

[@shaneketteridge]

still my favourite all time race

[@smokeglacken]

RIP to the great Giant’s Causeway. A generation-defining racehorse and stallion.

[@petermartin7811]

Helluva race. Giant Causeway ran his heart out but Tiznow wouldn't be denied

[@perryellis1423]

Tiznow, Giants Causeway, became successful sires. And this was a great strech race by two champions

[@garrettdruhan391]

So did Albert the great, lemon drop kid and fugues pegus has to be the greatest race of all time for sires

[@lordusmaximus147]

Not often did the Giant get beat in a head to head! Great race!

[@steveludwig4200]

Capt. Steve ran his ass off the last half mile...and I needed him to complete my $1800 trifecta with TZ and GC...That was my "Let It Ride" race..."Let the kid have it...."

[@Caroni100]

¡Guao! ¡Que final tan emocionante! ¡Digno de un Clásico de Breeder´s Cup! ¡Chris McCarron estuvo excelente a lomos de Tiznow!

[@bharlowc1]

Not sure I've ever seen a race where a horse in second coming down the stretch, gaining on the leader at the rate GC was, doesn't pass the leader, until this. Yes Tiznow was tough as nails, my favorite race ever.

[@tonywhipple]

Great catch. He fought leader all the way passed him and then held off a great horse

[@mrgoodbytes4709]

the good thing about horse racing is that, you dont hear people saying horses before were better than horses these days, its a sport unlike football soccer where you see that before they were better but these days there are also very good horses, in the 70s there was secretariat in the late 90s early 2000s dubai millennium and in the 2010s there are so many good horses all because of these 2 sires

[@silvereyedstacker1842]

My God, he just wouldn’t let him by. I love the side view. You can literally see him finding more and more.

[@AlexXanderMarketing]

Tiznow…. What a racehorse!

[@patriciaguth6882]

Tiznow is the proper iron horse here. RIP Giant's Causeway. You did well to come in second, with Captain Steve third.

[@braveheart101]

Not GC's surface, worth keeping that in mind.

[@PatriciaGuth-i3v]

A good horse should be able to run on any surface like we can in the US. Otherwise, it needs a better trainer. 😂😂😂

[@braveheart101]

@@PatriciaGuth-i3v A shame Tiznow never travelled to the UK or IRE to race GC. Would have been interesting for sure!

[@PatriciaGuth-i3v]

@@braveheart101 Too cheap of prize money there for us to bother with the trip. Plus, your races have no prestige for us. Two different mindsets on racing. Besides, most of Ireland's best horses were born and bred in the US -- even the famous Galileo had an American sire as does City of Troy. Giant's Causeway, too. So it would be like racing against ourselves.

[@braveheart101]

@@PatriciaGuth-i3v all fair points. Still, if we get back to my point, had Tiznow made the long trip over here, raced GC under our conditions on the grass, the result may very well have been reversed. In the BC, down the straight GC was closing down on Tiznow with ease, then Kinane dropped the reigns 150m out! Its not sour grapes, just facts.

[@bamfy15]

Tiznow tough as nails!!

[@julie-annquayle3877]

None tougher than the Giant!!

[@lockoshocko]

His 1st race on the surface and against the best around at the time! some effort!

[@BitterBosh]

Tell me about it! That 'eye in the sky' running down the stretch w/ the field is such a great shot. Thank goodness they got great production for this amazing race.

[@giantscauseway45]

This is still my fav race 2 warriors

[@xyzlne]

Giants Causeway earned a Beyer speed figure of 116 in defeat. Amazing

[@patriciaguth6882]

Just like Sham ran the second fastest Kentucky Derby ever after Secretariat. But unlike Giant's Causeway, nobody remembers him. Sad.

[@JPwhoknows]

@@patriciaguth6882 giants causeway is a all time great

[@patriciaguth6882]

@@JPwhoknows Absolutely! He had Secretariat in his pedigree.

[@JPwhoknows]

@@patriciaguth6882 question, how come he only ran in one breeders cup when he a very close second

[@JPwhoknows]

@@patriciaguth6882 but a fantastic horse, love watching its old races and had some amazing battles with Kanisiri

[@stooch66]

Tiznow is the gamest champ I may have ever seen. Two tough as nails races to win the BC Classic….

[@JonJonJonJonJonJonJonJon]

WHERE is camera angles like this in 2013? brilliant

[@giantscauseway45]

as aiden o brien said,eveything was against this horse ,all they had was the bravery and guts of the animal himself

[@kwgrid]

Wow! Exciting!

[@chrispeak6707]

I LOVE YOU TIZNOW ❤️ 😍 💗 💛 💓

[@SnidgetAsphodel]

They need to bring camera work like this back, I know :(

[@leesog3203]

BRING THESE CAMERAS BACK! :)

[@SnidgetAsphodel]

+Lee SOG RIGHT! I HATE the camera work these days. ugh.

[@christopherduganberry236]

The camera work is the way it is today because so many of these top races...are orchestrated and set up. If you were to see these various camera angles of the latest triple crown winner, you would clearly so how rigged the three races were. Slow, fake, staged breaks from the gate...one horse getting the perfect post position in all three races...all run exactly the same.....no other jockeys placing their horses in any positions to challenge...at any point in the three races AND the rest of the field dropping back after break and doing absolutely nothing but galloping in a herd....only roused to run the last 300 yards of the race....long after the pre-determined winner was far enough ahead that he wouldn't be caught....AND, extremely slow times in the first two races and the last race was a paceless procession of ponies trotting the first 1 1/4 miles, then sprinting home the last 1/4 mile. if you saw various camera angles of that Belmont Stakes...you could easily see how staged and fake the race was.

[@leesog3203]

Believe me, I feel what you're sayin. I was thinking the exact same thing, but never connected it with the camera work. I do believe the winner was brilliant racehorse, but he was given it on a plate. And I've seen too many races where I know something's going on. But I don't think every race is fixed, just the occasional race (usually to suit the bookmakers where I'm from) and every now and then, especially in the case of AP and Secretariat, they'll do what it takes to give the people the hero they're looking for - by means of drug-abuse and/or race orchestration - all we can do is appreciate the horses and the horses efforts - they're innocent in all this.

[@christopherduganberry236]

I'm telling you...the 2015 triple crown races were staged. Look at all three breaks from the gate...Every jockey is purposely steering their horse AWAY from American Pharoah....go check it out. All three breaks from the gate were exactly the same. look closely after the gate opens at what the other jockeys do who are next to American Pharoah. ONLY Gary Stevens on Firing Line attempted to beat the horse in that very, very slow Derby. Notice how Gary Stevens never...ever tried to beat thata horse again. What happened there in the Preakness and Blemont....Gary is a fierce competitor....Did someone have a talk with him after the derby and tell him to stay the hell away from American Pharoah because the industry needs a triple crown winner for the fans and to attract news fans...bettors....tvg internet betting. I'm telling ya....something about that triple crown just did not seem right.

[@leesog3203]

A fluke? I never thought of it as a fluke, but it was extraordinary circumstances, having nothing to race with, and no competition to contend with - except for Sham, who he used as a Rabbit - it was an exceptional performance - I question the 31 lengths as it appears more like 21 lengths, and I question the track and the use of drugs in the 70's era - but I wouldn't say it was a fluke, it was a top performance - and like some, I rated the Derby as the best of his TC wins :)

[@johnc7149]

Drop of the whip may not have made a difference. Tiznow Just had an amazing will. Two great champions.

[@christopherduganberry236]

The whip is in his hand. No drop.

[@chrismurphy3377]

He got his whip tangled in the reigns..And you better believe it made a difference

[@James-b7p2k]

chris murphy course it made the difference that’s was the giant responded too

[@signoresantinoburnett1169]

He dropped the reigns, and cost the horse the win. Watch him grab hold of GC inside the final 1/8th. GC was going right by at that point.

[@Flylion132FUCKU]

Tiznow: One bad-ass Cal-bred! These were the good ole days when NBC invested money into their telecast and would lay down rails for their stretch drive camera.

[@jt465465758]

Mick kinane is arguably the best jockey to come out of Ireland! He even said himself in his documentary that he lost that race not the horse! And as for the horse not been good enough??? Dats absolute bullshit!! Horse drops back when he goes for a fresh hold! It's quiet clear.. We're all human at the end of the day!! Kinane is and always will be a legend here in Ireland..

[@OmarMekari]

Best call ever

[@ascott2264]

Tiznow jock rode the perfect race.

[@goarwilson4547]

Was a hell of a race from giants causeway

[@buildingsheriff]

Bloody Mick Kinane dropping the reins near the finish line...

[@numanoid5665]

Best race ive ever, evwr , ever seen. Mick Kinnane did a fantastic job but the horse had a long season

[@JSB-IZ-ME]

Tiznow must been some horse because Causeway was an absolute beast in a 1 on 1 finish. Great race and yes a field of who’s who of breeding in the present.

[@azamobilly]

RIP Giant.x

[@madar7000]

the jockey on Giant causeway lost it; deliberately?

[@KypriosKing]

look at causeway move perfect bounce on his stride like perfect...what a majestic animal he was. Jockey held his rains right before he got to pass tiznow ;) clear as day you can see his pace almost halt. watch the hands not to mention the loading of the horse into the stalls he had 10 fools pulling at him and making him sweat.

[@roberto4001000]

How many brilliant finishes has giants causeway been involved in absolute monster would of won this if kinane hadn't of dropped his whip 😣

[@LukeParks123]

This was a great field

[@glenncanale9225]

If it were on the turf we all know who would have won but it was not. A great race by two great horses in fact I'm going to look at them this Saturday. I would love to buy a cover of each of them just have to come up with 145k.

[@austinap2248]

Giant's Causeway earned a Beyer speed figure of 116 in defeat. Top that.

[@GordonSmith1978]

Giant’s Causeway would’ve won if the jockey never lost his whip in the last half furlong

[@lukemccann]

RIP GC

[@GBeret83]

Giant's Causeway never finished worse than 2nd in any race in his career. He was 13-9-4-0 when he was retired to stud by Coolmore, with 12 starts on turf and this his only career start on conventional dirt. Watching how gamely he fought against a brilliant conventional dirt horse like Tiznow in this race makes me believe that while a 6-time G1 winner on turf in Europe, had the Coolmore syndicate decided to send him to America to race on dirt instead, he would've been as equally likely to have become a multiple G1 winning champion in the states on dirt too, IMO.

[@thetony5474]

Dropped his reins...

[@irishcowboy42]

Mick gave him a great ride, just unfortunate he dropped his whip 150 metres from the line, can happen to the best buddy.

[@gilbertmateo3409]

at 2:11 Mick still holding his whip past the wire :)

[@irishcowboy42]

@@gilbertmateo3409 You are quite right and i was wrong. The fact is was that Mick got his whip tangled in the reins, from there as he dropped his reins, the horse lost its momentum thereby costing him the race in my opinion only. Well spotted.

[@kevinbrogan4844]

The giant one the all time greats

[@mrgoodbytes4709]

alot of very good horses, tiznow cat theif giants causeway captain steve and fusaichi pegasus, some of the best horses of that time

[@irishcowboy42]

The best field of horses in a classic I've ever seen.

[@penelopelopez8296]

Tiznow was a big, tough SOB.

[@NadineReynoso2017]

TIZNOW THEE BADDEST HORSE OF ALL TIME....AINT NO OTHER HORSE BATTLE THE BEST THE WORLDS GOT IN THE BIGGEST RACE AND WIN IT...TWICE

[@marygomez5395]

chills

[@giantscauseway45]

RIP giantscauseway. A horse that will fight and die for ya .the steam train ..

[@enrique9603]

Giants Causeway, Better Horse?Wide The Entire Race,What A Horse. Tiznow Very Gutzy,Runs All Day.

[@jdny115]

Post Position and lack of using the crop did in Giants Causeway

[@SukramYasdnil]

He had been hitting him since the 300 meter marker

[@ken45y]

My thoughts too!

[@deceio]

I miss Secretariat 😢

[@Mysterybox02]

As he got cracks into causeway off the bend he picked up , to go again, he needed ridden that way keep the pressure on him, once kinane dropped the stick there was no way he could have picked up and went again. Missed the certain slaps needed at a certain time unfortunately

[@playitsafe20]

There is more to a horse race than just the horse. Jockey, training, equipment, everything goes into it. Tiznow and company did what was needed to win. Giant's Causeway had a bad break perhaps, but that's racing. No sense blaming anybody, just cash your tickets and move on to the next race.

[@OfficialMuffiin]

Not seeing many people mention the ground too, Giants Causeway was a turf runner, this was his first start on dirt. Everything was against him and his gut and willingness to fight got him within a nose to the best US dirt runner at the time.

[@xyzlne]

Giants Causeway earned a Beyer speed figure of 116 in defeat...top that

[@harpalchauhan428]

Tiznow got luck of draw to win by nose giants causeway had widest draw so to go down by a nose was remarkable if he was inside draw he would not let another horse go past him as he was known as the iron horse who only lost once before the breeders cup rember this like it was yesterday remember putting two weeks wages on giants causeway was more disappointed he did no win breeders cup then losing £800. But following years his off spring ie shamardal made me 10x what I lost on breeders cup.😂 😂😂😂

[@Elitetreaty]

🦅

[@austinp9803]

Whats amazing is Giants Causeway in a bayer speed number of 116 in defeat. If anyone out here can give me a horse that has top that please reply

[@Elitetreaty]

DEMON DAVID 🃏

[@mrgoodbytes4709]

Sad that none of them tried out the Dubai World Cup, Cap Steve did it but none of these horses, Coolmore would have done it with giants causeway or Galileo

[@jasonkiselis2866]

I have been to many Breeders Cups. nothing compared to this one. Tiznow was very special Giants Causeway the iron horse never give up he was entitled to drop of top of the stretch. Michael Kinane probably not his best ride.

[@aq2819]

Won by a nose but a very comfortable nose.

[@georgeobrien7764]

I miss Tom Durkin

[@xyzlne]

Giants Causeway earned a byer speed figure of 116 in defeat.

[@leesog3203]

To think.. on ratngs.. Dubai Millenium (RIP) could have won this race by 3 or 4 lengths.. maybe more.. He was some horse... Just imagine if we saw Dubai Millenum vs Montjeu (over 10f, on Turf) and Dubai Millenium vs Tiznow (over 10f, on Dirt) .. Had he won both races (which he was certainly capable of) he'd be known the world over as one of the all-time greats.

[@christopherduganberry236]

No Way! The reason they didn't bring Dubai Millenium over here for the Breeder's Cup is because they didn't want to risk his undefeated status....same thing with Frankel. They were afraid of getting beat. Both horses, Dubai Millenium and Frankel....overrated!!!! Both stayed away from any real competition. And, I know Frankel's connections wanted nothing to do with Wise Dan at a mile.

[@leesog3203]

Haha Dubai Millenium had 7lb in hand over Tiznow and Giants Causeway; it would have been a breeze for him.. Frankel was handled with kid-gloves to some degree, but he did win 10 G1's on all kind's of racetracks - something US horses could never handle - Wise Dan was rated 12lb inferior to Frankel, which means Frankel could lose 5 lengths at the start and STILL beat him - Wise Dan was outstanding over a mile, and had one of the biggest hearts in racing, but he should only be compared (overall) to five-time Frankel victim Excelebration, rated 2lb inferior.. Wise Dan was lucky Animal Kingdom never got the splits in the 2012 BC Mile - he may have lost and that was the race he set a new stakes record - and this was the Animal Kingdom who came to race at Royal Ascot the following season, and you seen what happened there - he was in way above his head, and he was a brilliant horse - So I guess you can believe Frankels connections wanted none of Wise Dan, but in defeating the mighty Cirrus Des Aigles (rated identical to Wise Dan) on ground he hated while conceding lengths at the start, was a greater achievement than annihilating Wise Dan (and the clock) at Santa Anita.

[@christopherduganberry236]

Dubai Millennium and Frankel....OVERRATED! They stayed away from Wise Dan for one specific reason....they didn't want to get beat. Dubai Millennium....WHO IS THAT? He did nothing that anyone remembers....nothing great. Great European horses are remembered.....like Nijinksky, etc.... It's funny...because the Euros love coming here to show off their great turf horse and to grab that huge purse, except for 2 specific horses who needed to stay undefeated....for stud purposes......that's why they stayed home, yet bring their horses every year before that. Can't buy that excuse because they have no problem bringing their other horses here. the only reason NOT to bring either one of these horses was to ensure their record remained intact. Why Didn't Black Caviar and Frankel meet up when they were in the same country?......because neither wanted a defeat on their record. If you want them to stay undefeated.....keep running them against the same bums.

[@leesog3203]

If there was ANY reason for Frankel not coming to America it would be the fact he became too relaxed at the start for the, "race against the clock" style of US racing - but if not, it was merely to keep him injury free as the tracks over there are extremely fast (and therefore extremely dangerous). The conversation over here isn't whether Frankel would defeat Wise Dan - that's almost like saying would he beat Golikova - it's almost disrespectful to pose the question - as the questions we're interested in are how would he compare to the likes of Dancing Brave and Brigadier Gerard - horses rated 140+ - and the lowest rated horse to compare him with would be Zilzal or Zafonic - rated 137/136 - but even that's stretching it.. You seen how he handled Canford Cliffs - and that's as a 3 year old, and Canford was easily capable of mixing it with Wise Dan.. I suppose the bottom line, when it comes to understanding Frankels greatness, is valuing the opinion of his trainer, one of the greatest trainers of all time - Sir Henry Cecil - who, in 50 years of racing experience, said he'd be surprised if there's EVER been one better than Frankel - and that's about as high an accolade as he could receive - not to mention very few people (in Europe) complain about him being rated as the greatest horse of all time - or since ratings began - on 147 - 3lb higher than the next best milers on 144 - Tudor Minstrel and Brigadier Gerard

[@safebetsafebet2653]

Christopher Duganberry 9 times out of ten Giants Causeway beats Tiznow. First time on dirt, Kinnane losing control of the whip and drawn out wide, all contribute to his narrow loss. Tiznow formidable as he was no doubt, would finish a lot worse of coming to the UK and facing the iron horse on equal terms.