2016 Lecture 07 Maps of Meaning: Part I: Osiris, Set, Isis and Horus

One variant of the ancient Egyptian myth of Osiris and his compatriots serves to illustrate the archetypal substructure of narrative cognition. Understanding this story has great conceptual and practical utility.
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[@funkyboodah]

On Horus [1:19:30], the long-lost rightful king On what happens to Horus' eye after his victory over Seth [1:27:55] The Democratization of Osiris [1:32:20]

[@zachsuppan8037]

Thanks!!!!

[@GuyanVs]

Thank you for articulating my feelings on Foucault. My sociology tutor keeps going on and on about him, one of our assignments is even based around his thoughts on mental health, and I have always had a problem with his ideas but could never explain why, it just always felt off to me. We even had a class debate on the power distribution in society and it was me against everyone else. I was trying to argue that of course there are advantages for certain classes of people but at the end of the day it does not matter becuase I believe hard work and luck accounts more for success than an advantagious starting point. Even more than that I was trying to say in some sense it does not matter because it is meaning that counts in life and if one concentrates on power as meaning and focuses on how unfair it is maybe that person is not as left leaning as they would like to believe. Anyway I was completely shut down by the tutor who exlaimed "enough!" and reminded me of the struggle of woman and minority ethincities in the past as way of dismissing my argument. It does not help I was not calm either but I honestly felt that maybe I was wrong and that my way of thining was wrong. How can I argue against that? So I do not anymore, if I need to sing the praises of Foucault in my next assingment I will but I certainly will not believe it. Back to the point of this rambling, it is a relief to see someone far more intelligent than me express an opinion I have had. Maybe the way I think is not so wrong after all even if my points in the class debate were wrong.

[@GuyanVs]

+Jordan B Peterson Thanks for the advice, I will take it seriously and I look forward to your next video.

[@americanmambi]

Jordan B Peterson you couldn't be more right about Marxists willing to throw away all reason and even scientific facts in order to enforce their "principles". Having lived for 15 yrs in a " Communist" country I can tell you it is a "social trait" that it is beaten into the minds of its citizen each and every day in just about any form of media, backed by the terror of police.... it is soo pervasive that it has become an extreme form of self censoring which then expands into another trait which you can see in just about any socialist-communist society which is the stagnation of development of the country in general.

[@GustavoRivasMendez]

D27Rugen What country is that?

[@robinthestate6548]

@@GustavoRivasMendez idk what country he is from but I'm from Cuba and I agree with him 💯 percent the ideas are beaten into people's head over and over. I was such a rare instance because I am a very skeptical person and I'm the kind of person that if you force something down my throat i throw up and I find something else to eat. Which is why I got in trouble in Cuba since the age of 7 for questioning the ideas. I didn't get in big trouble because I was a kid but my parents were always called to be questioned at school on where my ideas against "equality" came from. My problem wasn't and never will be with equality my problem is with equity. Hope that helps...

[@sabertooth160]

Courageous

[@SensSword]

Dr P's old stuff is still great, but it's amazing how much better he's gotten. Trial by fire is apparently a good way to forge a stronger future. Well done.

[@KINGKROSBYSKINGDOM]

this man deserves a nobel peace prize

[@TheModernHermeticist]

One of the best ones so far

[@dominikm.8990]

Set was no enemy of the Sun. Here's a little food for thought: Mythologically, Set stood on the front of Ra's boat as he was traveling through the underworld at night. He was thereby protecting Ra (the Sun) from Apophis (the snake looming behnd the horizon and threatening to devour the Sun and return the world into chaos). Apophis is mindless chaos, while Set is a sort of creative chaos that makes space for new things to emerge. It could be that he killed Osiris because he wanted something new to emerge, because Egypt was not what it could have been (in his eyes).

[@norandomness]

You can't kill the one to raise a zero if they're not equal

[@igorabdoaguilar9331]

makes sense, and how Horis has to better than his father to retake his throne, so that the same mistakes are not made. I guess that if you try to snuff out ingenuity it will manifestate itself through calculated treason. It takes a hell of an imagination to form a coup that actually works. And a strong mature figure to resolve the tension created from it. I guess we can say that Set is like the black dot in the white spiral of ying and yang? Have the spiral loose it's barier of containing it's oppposite, and it will leak out, and shift the balance. Making it ever so more complicated to keep true chaos at bay, maybe end up even inviting it.

[@evilherojoseph]

@@igorabdoaguilar9331 So much clarity in these comments sometimes. Thank you past people.

[@Herintruththelies]

I love this series. So much good stuff here. This blue collar American is loving it. Thanks so much for sharing!

[@ramkrishnadas4230]

Grateful to JBP for putting lectures on you tube. They are much more than we can ask for; wish somewhere we could access the slides he is using.

[@wookongninja7461]

Don't worry about the slides. He used them largely as a measure of required conformity. The visualization projected by his cognitive and linguistic skills, are the essence and totality, of 'sorting it out'. On a more complex level, call it perceptive association and constructive abstraction, using what is known, and what we seek to understand. If we fail to sort it out, well, good luck with that.

[@PatriciaN1202]

He is so articulate and the concepts/examples he explains are so interesting

[@kellyberry4173]

God, Dr. You are so right. My husband has told me for years...take out dictator. ..NOTHING but chaos follows. Be careful. You answered so many questions I had. Thank you. We need you.

[@ziparis]

I can't even imagine the amount of reading Dr Peterson has done.

[@squoreacts1837]

Imagine he just Googles his questions and find a 500page book and a video to fill in a hole that he then breaks down to make connections to other subjects where it logically makes sense.

[@BudFuddlacker]

@@squoreacts1837 lol, so much projection in your comment, thanks for letting everyone know who you are

[@turbdonkey]

I love this whole series! Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting!

[@alexjavidi6841]

“I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?” -Ernest Hemingway

[@kellyberry4173]

Brilliant comment.

[@violatrent1940]

Honestly it sounds as if he may have suffered from his being enlightened. This opinion is based entirely from this quote. Not his entire body of work. You see it all the time, true intelligence doesn't allow a false escape from the truth, as ignorance is the only way to escape reality is rather ironic, because once you understand that, you are no longer ignorant. Its better, in my opinion to know the depth you seek to reach and stop. We are not meant to know reality in this depth without the constant understanding of it. Most people aren't capable those who are still suffer without the ability to see beyond themselves and their emotions. Had to speak on this comments because it held the most hope for being understood. More because of the subject material in the video, just referenced the quote for relevance. Clearly he was a intelligent person, that was conscious beyond most. So It applied. Lol

[@MARYJOEBETHELBALDUR]

Stop with the ridiculous one liners that didnt come from a one poet

[@lisabrown3517]

@@kellyberry4173 lk bf

[@daryl9366]

@@violatrent1940 Have seen a picture of his daughter's? OMG

[@bimsaragunarathna2900]

Overwhelmingly brilliant. Thank you sir

[@hiroshidude]

Thank you for all of these!

[@SUPERkeksqp]

this course should be mandatory in schools

[@eyeseewho77]

For anyone wondering 🙄 the subject (that most likely got your attention) depicted in the title begins at 45 minutes into the video.

[@axvle]

21:54 - "You can't just generate up a fairy-tale" Hah, nice!

[@7Z-t]

"The snow queen" was made up. Its not thousands of years old.

[@igorabdoaguilar9331]

@@7Z-t now I get why moana was so much better than frozen

[@davidsalib6516]

Dr. Jordan, Thank you please keep going.

[@TheEloquentEye]

What you said about getting stuck in the underworld was quite scary, I ended up there about 8 years ago and have been there ever since, it's also interesting what you said about the fact we know that bad things will catch up with us when we transgress but we often choose to delude ourselves and hope we can cheat the system. I'm not some hopeless pessimist but I can shake the eerie feeling that I'm never coming back. Thanks for all the amazing work.

[@HenriqueBucher]

I just love hearing this guy. It never gets boring. Perfect voice, perfect ideas.

[@memopinzon]

Another useful element within Seth's set of traits is his graphic representation. His animal head is that of an unknown non-existent animal which is a one-off exception within the Egyptian deities. This contributes to the overall strength of a "chaos-unknown" deity.

[@memopinzon]

+Jordan B Peterson , it seems most cultures endowed their deities with graphic cues to provide additional content, regardless if they were conscious of it or not. It's rather curious that most of us just attribute that to "wild" imaginations of past cultures instead of being able to decipher such content. Even more curious to me is the fact that even nowadays we are gripped by the same representations regardless of how ancient they are. Certain graphical representations of gods seem to be incredibly gripping even when we can't quite articulate why.

[@nagol5178]

We did that in America too. That's why there were 13 colonies. The seal on the back of the dollar bill is a prophecy from the Cumean Sibyl of Apollo. Well, she quite literally says it's one in the same as Horus. That's why a lot of American symbology is Egyptian.

[@shawnwinters3879]

nagol5178 Greeks changed the name of Africans to Egyptians. it's a proven fact

[@shawnwinters3879]

nagol5178 Greeks changed the name of Africans to Egyptians. it's a proven fact

[@BrettonFerguson]

Egyptians referred to their country as Hwt-ka-Ptah (Temple for Ka of Ptah) Greeks had difficulty pronouncing the name Hwt-ka-Ptah , so the Greeks changed the name to Aegyptus. What this has to do with this comment thread is beyond me.

[@beatrice6209]

I struggle to understand most of the content but i find you very interesting and deep. Thank you for the content.

[@cyaneyed7146]

Mufasa doesn't underestimate scar, he commits the eternal mistake of good which is to tolerate evil and intolerance, despite zazus advice to turn him into a rug.This is a central theme of norse mythology with Odin tolerating Loki and a valid and relevant lesson for today's societies.

[@user-rm8wr4gq2i]

Odin is not good and Loki is not evil.

[@LikuidINK]

Thank you!

[@LikuidINK]

"Mufasa doesn't underestimate scar" He routinely underestimates him throughout the entire movie. "he commits the eternal mistake of good which is to tolerate evil and intolerance" The people that walk around screaming how good they are, are constantly claiming the moral high-ground with "tolerance" while they ironically cast out/murder others that don't fit into their definition of "good". Doesn't sound very "good" of the "good" people. "despite zazus advice to turn him into a rug." Zazu is nothing but unchecked panic and who in their right mind listens to unchecked panic? Give Zazu a Mufasa that listens to his advice and it literally turns into a fascist nation because unchecked panic leads to destroying anything different because "different" means "bad/evil". "This is a central theme of norse mythology" No it's not. "Odin tolerating Loki and a valid and relevant lesson for today's societies." Odin doesn't "tolerate" Loki. He's just a shit parent and he's the void where chaos (Loki) and order (Thor) live. He holds the ability to mold the situation whichever way he chooses, but he's indifferent. I would say he understands the need to have both entities exist. You can not have good without bad. The coin no longer exists if 1 side is missing. Also, how is it a valid lesson for today's society? Which society?

[@emilianomartinez285]

Also Batman and the Joker.

[@jeremiahkirkman100]

i agree. good always gives evil another chance and most the time evil commits evil again.

[@jmriles7]

His "attentive avatar of culture" idea discussed around 1:31:00 is really cool.

[@KingNefiiria]

It's so interesting seeing how this is happening with the USA right now. I live in it, so it's also a bit nerve-wracking, but I am looking forward to the future with some positivity.

[@JudoMateo]

Could you do a series on Stoicism? The growing number of practicing Stoics would readily consume the insights you'd glean from their works I'm sure!

[@garytucker8696]

Great topic thank you for sharing Sir.

[@JuanyJuanes]

Dr Peterson, have you read any of Theodor Adorno's work, ie.. dialectic of enlightenment,ie... social theory or critical theory? i'd be curious what your thoughts are

[@mydearpeers]

51:00 Willfully Blind - Story of Osiris

[@amandamcnamara1617]

Dr. Peterson, regarding potential being serpentine, have you considered the coiled serpent representing a spring, which, when loaded, literally has potential energy in a Newtonian sense? That's the image/concept that sprang to my mind when I was listening to your discussion of that matter.

[@taiwanjohnson5175]

You understand thank You 👍

[@MrGflan]

I love Peterson, but by the time he gets through a story, my computer will be outdated 😂😂😂

[@jayamay]

Thank you 👌

[@hhKJgf1M8a0rzt8hP]

“In my kingdom, you have to run as fast as you can just to stay in the same place.” - Red Queen

[@rachyseaside]

So in the Isis Osiris myth Isis doesn’t find the phallus so she makes one from clay. The story sometimes goes that a fish are it. She doesn’t find the phallus that is an important bit so Jordan please help with your thoughts on this

[@SpiritualFox]

Life is a self-sustaining system... Within an interactive environment. A system is a catalyst of life, either in it's root form as a chemical reaction, or in more complex forms such as institutions. Every system has flaws, and eventually, the system does little more than protect it's flaws (once theyre identified) as a means to maintain stability, which instantly leads to corruption.

[@Aguamarina38]

SpiritualFox # Absolutely true!

[@thefourelevensAO]

this is good!

[@profearoum]

Dear Prof Jordan Peterson, what are your thoughts on the Japanese mythology of Izanagi and Izanami and its correlation (or does it even have any correlation?) to their samurai culture, unit 731, Yakuza and Japanese nationalism/supremacy.

[@CatnamedMittens]

firdaus bin abd muttalib Whoa

[@gtamus]

I’ve spent some time reading Foucault in French (the main reason why Foucault is revered in France is his writing style). To me, Peterson got it right in general, but he missed one important point: the concept of power in Foucault’s thought is not Marxist, but Nietzschean (and Webberian in some sense). In Foucault, we have a distinction between power and resilience (one’s capacity to resist power). That distinction is very close to kraft and macht in Nietzsche.

[@patriceavarvara2854]

Would it be wrong or far-fetched to derive and devise an attempt to save the broken self the same way Horus does through reviving Osiris? I'm sorry if the question seems silly but I think the story also points inevitably to that psychological state where the present self (Horus) chooses not to make the incursion into the underworld and save/unify with Osiris. Would Horus only lack wisdom in that case or would he be completely dysfunctional? The story had a profound impact on me at a personal level as it urges me to go back and rescue that broken Osiris, lend him the understanding, insight (eye) of Horus and unify with him instead of denying, resenting or ignoring his existance. I'm referring to the struggles of remaining a sane individual when you're suddenly cornered by your complex traumatic past you are no longer willfully blind to and from which there's no escape.

[@benjaminandersson2572]

which is the book he discusses in the beginning?

[@loonienews4304]

Coolest teacha evah!

[@CarterColeisInfamous]

1:16:13 I feel like I'm driven by some mix of those 3

[@Cheirador123]

excellent

[@CarterColeisInfamous]

1:01:00 the productivity we get from word processing far outweighs any updates or twittering we happen to do

[@stevehuntley3089]

Here's a fun fact: I wake up most mornings with 'Osiris eye'. I've got a fair size permanent, open bleeding wound on the right side of my face that I picked up as a souvenir after intercepting the Oct. 2001 Amerithrax attack @ the Newtown Square post office that extenfs from the outside corner of my eye to my ear and is as tall as my ear. When I wake , the blood has run under my eye, pooled, dripped and run into a patter that looks like that Osiris eye thingy when you look at it in the mirror. Also, the clay in 'feet of clay' is 'sacred ash' schmeered on the foots of the body.

[@mydearpeers]

55:56 Be careful disrupting order - LISTEN

[@ManicTulip76]

@1:17:40 finding order in chaos

[@bencochrane6112]

39:00 theres a good bit in Snow White which shows this when she's running through he forest. The whole place looks monstrous until she starts seeing the animals and trees around her as useful to her survival, at which point the sun comes out and everything is good again.

[@SavageHoax]

It's the ship of Theseus; the lesson is not to burn the entire ship and build a new boat, the lesson is to remove the rotten wood and replace it with fresh, strong, new timber. That the ship has been repaired so much that you can question if it is still the same ship becomes irrelevant; it still serves the same function. As long as it is renewed constantly, updated as needed, it remains useful.

[@mikeyseo]

you miss a key part. why did a pharoah choose set as his patron god? who do u think the hyksos are? which god did they worship?

[@TwinAquarius484]

5:30 there's a recent Korean film called Parasite

[@CarterColeisInfamous]

1:07:20 is that Venezuela?

[@alephnaught1]

"*shakes laptop* This is the state. If you think your laptop isn't the state then you're not thinking about your laptop properly. It's the state." Oh JP..

[@bititid]

Made me giggle

[@keithwilliams4169]

Don’t understand much ,but I know it’s brilliant

[@TheBlackAce21]

What is the name of the book that criticizes Sartre & Foucault?

[@chadweastman]

I'm curious too. Have you figured it out by any chance?

[@chadweastman]

Think I found it: www.theguardian.com/books/2015/dec/10/fools-frauds-and-firebrands-thinkers-of-the-new-left-roger-scuton-review

[@pinewatch5006]

First thing I thought was Scruton too.

[@lwilson9383]

Great lecture. But Pol Pot did not study at the Sorbonne. Pol Pot's ideology was inspired by the writings of a colleague who wrote a thesis at the Sorbonne about the effect of colonialism on Cambodia's agrarian society. The colleague's name was Khieu Samphan.

[@jayreyes828]

Professor, or fellow learners: Where can I find more information about the misinformed feminine anthropologists and feminine religions being replaced by patriarchal religions? I know of a few acquaintances who believe the above and I want to approach them with the proper knowledge.

[@incipimitusiterum4261]

I've always thought of the lion king as being Hamlet with lions

[@user-ze5ss8ny1p]

Thx

[@truthseeker104]

As far as I understand it Horus rising is the origins or Horizon and as mentioned Sett kills the Sun/Son where we get sunset. The Sun crosses the sky and dies on the cross as he is killed by Sett (or Seth), sunset often has a blood red sky. So there is much Christian symbolism derived from the Egyptian mysteries. As above, so below the plan acted out in the heavens (sky) is represented on Earth. Sentience is another way of describing the ability to see and understand. All this fits in well with the Trivium which people used to learn as a prerequisite for education, importantly the gaining of knowledge (being able to "see" what is going on), understanding which includes reasoning through information from eclectic sources (this is where much of academia these days does particularly badly I will add, especially the eclectic bit) and finally wisdom. So the Trivium being Knowledge, Understanding and Wisdom.

[@bencochrane6112]

I remember discussing communism not being applied properly back when I was in secondary school, the UK high school equivalent. It never occurred to me to even question where the debate came from, whether from someone reading about it online or from a teacher. I probably should have asked.

[@psychologyrelated538]

Crazy how I this is understandable, and I don't think it's only gift of gab

[@RachardMorris]

46:16 Explains Catholic Theological Understanding of God lol. I'm a Michigander from the United States, but I would consider taking [your] class just for these kinds of philosophies.

[@donaldmartin3057]

Soul memory... the soul remembers, and not all souls are new.

[@chazz.zaragoza.9561]

45:10 Osiris Isis Set Horus

[@funkyboodah]

On Foucault and Institutions [12:00]

[@anjrew52]

"The Old Solutions Don't Solve The New Problems" The Osiris story speaks of the failures of Political Conservatism. Solutions come from interactions of differing perspectives, not blind adherence to the perspectives we are comfortable with. This applies to any ideology in which the individual is unwilling or unable to understand a differing perspective. I bring this up as snippets of lectures by this professor are often used as tools by Political Conservatives. When in reality the lectures are quite academic and nuanced.

[@dicemm5544]

49:06 That seems exactly like the phrase ''I was born in the wrong generation.'' seen under Nirvana music vids and other 80s & 90s music because younger people see THE BEST of the past and think that's the only thing that happened and they want to live in those days even thought they're not an accurate representation of the time.

[@hiyou4851]

Interesting

[@differous01]

32:50 "...the transformation of the semi-known thing into the more-known thing ...almost aways occurs in a social context..." "Standing on the shoulders of giants" [Newton] implies the existence 1. of a society of "giants" and 2. of a society which 'semi-knows' who the giants might be.

[@FirsToStrike]

25:00 I thought the Freudian id would be you, not the others. The "others" would be the superego.

[@Sam-hw5mb]

Anyone got a pic of the hierarchy?

[@WeirdWackyWonderfool]

Horus is born in the underworld because it is the place of birth, the womb, much like the cenote in Myan mythology. You can fall back into the womb, you need to to be reborn sometimes.

[@spectralvalkyrie]

1:03:45 the state is becoming our technology

[@spectralvalkyrie]

42:12 literature as an antidote to ideology

[@157dixon]

Oral stories are probably working memory because people would have encountered similar things and related their experiences with what they have been told.

[@bleble6666]

I find conflicting information about Pol Pot studying at the Sorbonne. Wikipedia doesn't mention this, and one site (really a letter to a Polish magazine) says it is a myth.

[@recynd77]

I studied the Khmer Rouge quite extensively several years back and I never read Pol Pot was Sorbonne-educated, rather, that he was educated at a private French technical/engineering school. I used to have an exhaustive biography on him, but can't find it now (naturally).

[@pinewatch5006]

I was under the impression he studied at a French university in a major city of either Cambodia or Vietnam? I remember that was where he first realised so many foreigners and "bourgeois" people were living in or near Cambodia and "exploiting" the peasantry. Irony is that he was well-educated by foreigners and spoke fluent French and would have been considered a number one enemy by the regime's standards if he wasn't dictator himself. The Khmer regime is really fascinating though, especially for those of us so perplexed by the question of evil.

[@garytucker8696]

Some Egyptian king tomb depictions have winged serpents either side Amun Rah particularly,I believe these winged serpents to be Cherubim Chariots!!

[@192mait]

when you started to speak about Horus - it suddenly hit me that I was kind of the same way, because I experienced the truth (the current monetary system and it's flaws- mainly interest banking aka creating money from *thin air*) and that devouered a part of me without me realising, so now i guess i have to give *the eye* to the people to make them see.

[@1947662]

He broke my brain

[@donaldmartin3057]

Yes, Osiris made order out of chaos... yes.... yes... you got it.!

[@johnscallon4901]

53:10 - how to handle the unexpected

[@Deletedvirus404]

57:58

[@CodeineKakashi]

anyone else end up here bc Jordan Peterson is awesome and they like the egyptian gods in Smite?

[@KINGKROSBYSKINGDOM]

Dude looks savage with that beard

[@ayandas22]

Check out his reality and sacred video u will be more impressed.

[@Deity1]

what is the thought behind anti archetypes? Like if you have a guy that you would categorise in the hero subset but he isn't the sort of hero you would root for however he is the kind of hero that's needed. Jesus' return would be an example of that, an event that will be destructive enough that you wouldn't cheer but you know it has to happen because the world can no longer be redeemed. So what is some of the thinking behind this?

[@bedwere]

It's ἁμαρτία, with the accent on the iota: the final alpha is long so the accent cannot fall beyond the penultimate syllable.

[@Wabe28]

Hänsel und Gretel have more to do with the later folk processing of the witch-hunt era “15th century to the early modern period” in Germany than anything else. For one the child processing witch is a classical narrative in most treatises on witchcraft. In addition, there is a layer of distorted truth within these accusations, because medicinal cannibalism was a common practice among the elite and commoners alike, even up to the early 20th century. Also the concept of coupling with the devil is always linked to the concept that (mostly) women out of poverty will sacrifice their children to the devil for some sort of obolus. The historical aspect is indeed that almost all witchcraft trials are rooted in quarrels within a family or a community. Stepfathers/stepmothers accusing their stepchildren of witchcraft or stepchildren accusing their stepmother of witchcraft or even parents (out of poverty) trying to get rid of their children; are actually a common phenomenon during this era. Plus a similar narrative exists in the Malleus Maleficarum, were a father saves his 8 year old daughter from the clutches of his evil wife who was a witch (or originally a weather-maker or Tempestarii) and was put to the stake. The belief in weather-makers is a subject for itself, due to the comprehensible fear of a largely agrarian society. I wanted to ad in, if one were to visualize the contemporary thought world of the Malleus , especially in regard to its theology. Should watch the film “The VVitch: A New-England Folktale“, anyone who is familiar with witchcraft treatises will see the true nature of this film and understand why this kind of material causes so much controversy among people, ironically females will unknowingly interpret the film in the sense of the Malleus…

[@rasmushertzum252]

At 4:38 I think he is confusing Pol Pot with Khieu Samphan. Pol Pot never wrote a Masters- or PhD-thesis, nor did Pol Pot study at the Sorbonne.

[@buckthuun]

rasmus hertzum either or the point was pol pot killed many and there was a major butterfly effect to it, causing many to migrate in the U.S

[@ShaakTisElectricKoolAid]

45:09 is where talk of Egyptian gods starts. Not that the first 45 minutes weren't great.

[@enzofranco4634]

14:55 As an argentinian i confirm this

[@mydearpeers]

1:25:12 What i said to the darkness... Then they block and hide--

[@nylapoonsingh453]

How to join this my name is nyla

[@TheAndreArtus]

Isn't "satan" from the Hebrew for "accuser/adversary"? As far as I can recall the book of Job is one of the oldest in the collection we call the Bible, I would certainly expect it to pre-date the Coptics. Egypt did have control over large swathes of the Levant during thje Bronze age, and the cultures certainly had trade interactions. If "Set"=>"Satan" I would start the search for evidence there. I don't see the parallels. The modern (24 centuries) devil concept seems to be more likely Iranian in origin (Angra Mainyu).

[@thehermitmonk081]

Hebrew mythology draws a lot from Egyptians, but then also myth of Horus is similar to Christ, Seth to Satan, etc. I think it's safe to assume none of those ideas are completely original, they have strong succession that is traceable from knowing the timeline of written stories.

[@recynd77]

Learning about the REAL origins and meanings of this myth is amazing. Thank you. You could talk forever on this topic and I'd be eager for more.

[@SpiritualFox]

There's some connection here, however the fable is more closely aligned with the morning star. The morning star is another name for Lucifer, and most likely to be the oldest. Lucifer is a representation of the opponent of the sun. One of the representations is as an underworld god of snakes, however another common one is that Lucifer is last star in the night sky to go out when the sun comes out. Light is good, Dark is bad, so the last light to go out is the falsest light. This is pre-historical.

[@recynd77]

SpiritualFox That's another good way of looking at it: the sun versus the star. I'm not gifted in analyzing allegory, but I can sense the importance of these stories. I'm amazed by those who can apply them.

[@kristenbrown1]

@53:10 😂 handled that gently for some potentially embarrassed student 👍

[@sourisooo2434]

Lose belief means that value you used to believe are not suited to your goal or your experience. There are two alternative to this: change your goal or change your belief. Power and system are part of society. When a system give promise and achieve the fixed goal provided by the promise, belief is bounding between system and indivuals. It's impossible to get ride of belief without the performance of the system behind it, the efficiency of the underlined social contract. The issue reveal itself when the system does claim any belief while performing well because any actor of the system can take advantage of this situation in a way to promote its own belief without demonstrating any contribution to the performance and take credit from it. Promise is a reflection of an individual potential. Trust him or not depend on your belief and your ethics.

[@funkyboodah]

1:21:27 Horus

[@andyweb7779]

"You all get along because you all imitate the central body of custom and law that makes up the state..." Explains why Northern Ireland doesn't work. Two groups of people imitating two different personifications. How then to change that? Create a new state, with a new personification that both sides can imitate?

[@jayreyes828]

Speaking of floods and the feminine embodying chaos, I now see why Tool's Aenima was such a popular song... ;)