2022 Penn Fathom II Lever Drag Reels - the good, the bad, the ugly...

[@frankzambrano8722]

Mark , You don't sugar coat what you sell and that's exactly why I buy from you!! Thank you so much for always sharing, hope you feel better!! Million Likes

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks Frank. Both the reels and myself are doing much better. Actually getting a bug was probably a very good wake up for me. I finally stopped smoking, haven't inhaled a cig since the bug a couple months ago, about time...

[@frankzambrano8722]

@@CharkBaitUSA Mark , Best of this year to you and family!! Please keep making these videos and great for you on no more smoking! Hopefully you and wife enjoyed your Puerto Vallarta trip!! Million Likes

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@frankzambrano8722 Thanks for asking Frank, wife loved Puerto Vallarta of course. Usually my "vacations" have been work related, rare to just be a bum and enjoy doing little to nothing. But, that's exactly what we did, slow paced, enjoyed the great food, beer sampling, walking around aimlessly... We were slugs, but slugs with a purpose! We'll be going back again in April when our youngest has time off from school. I think "not-so-little" Mike will enjoy, too. Given Sergey (oldest son) is taking over the shop, took over the Internet, I'm just a bit player and can be gone to play a bit!

[@tynottelling6584]

I learned about Charbait a couple years ago. But I’ve been fishing San Diego long range boats for 46 years. Since I was 9. I am totally and always have been addicted to fishing. This guy Mark, who I have spoken with many times but never met is BY FAR THE BEST!!! He doesn’t know me but he and Sergey are who I call if I have any question I want an unbiased honest answer from. They are not your typical sales people they are seasoned pros that care about you and your wallet. Of all the folks I spoke to over all the years I’ve been fishing these guys are the best!

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Many thanks for the kind comments. I'll pat my son Sergey on his back. He's taking over for me very well as I begin to slow down my day to day role. It's really been his show for the past three years or so with a bit of help from me. My wife is also actively engaged at CB, along with my youngest son Mike. So, we've become more a family business with some great guys running the shop and helping with the online side of things.

[@tunanorth]

Clarification regarding size. The International 80 maintains the traditional "IGFA 80" sizing system that has been around for 75+ years. Changing it now would definitely confuse people, so they are now just updated with generations [V, IV, etc]. The Fathom series uses Penn's newer sizing system, where whatever the number is, indicates that it holds 300 yards of "that" pound test mono. A Fathom 15 holds 300/15 mono, a Fathom 30 holds 300/30 mono, and so on. The Fathom 80 will hold 300/80 mono, about the same as a 6/0 Senator. The "80" size Fathom FTHII80LD2 will not be a 130-200 pound reel like an "International 80" would be, though along with that, the Fathom has only about half the line capacity of the International. The Fathom 80 will be an 80-100 pound reel.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks for the input Steve. PLEASE do pass along the issues we've seen on the 60N two speed freespool issue. I'm betting dollars to donuts they have installed the single speed's cam thus the fine freespool at a drag setting for 20# line but total binding at anything above that which we'd use to run 40# and up. The performance does not meet specs, it's an assembly issue and the wrong drag cam installed during assembly seems a likely culprit.

[@davidrauschenbach6871]

Sorry you got the flu, but glad you went on a 8 day fishing trip!! Hopefully it went well and we’ll be seeing some of the adventure! Thanks for the look at the reel.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

You'll need to hop over to Rumble, Odysee or Bitchute to see the video given the censorship crap w/YT. Links provided by visiting the 2 minute RRIII video on this channel or searching those sites for CHARKBAIT.

[@davidrauschenbach6871]

@@CharkBaitUSA Thanks will definitely check them out, have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[@daveguerrero-o9k]

I was talking to the guys from Cal sheets. They have taken these reels and started blueprinting them. You can upgrade the handle and the free spool is way faster. The bad thing is if you are going to send in your reel you won’t get it back until after the the fishing season. Because they are back up on orders right now. The guys on the boats are saying first one down gets the bite so you need a fast free spool.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks for sharing. I'm not sure the cost, but the price of upgrade is worth considering. If the reel runs $300 and upgrading costs $200, well I've just been convinced to buy a Makaira, International, Avet from the get-go, and frankly either one of those would be better to own long term than a china-made price-point Fathom. Freespool performance of the Fathoms, when assembled properly, is VERY good. It ain't bad at all, darn good freespool. That won't be what costs a fisherman getting bit or landing a fish. Many other factors involved.

[@moshesmoving]

Great point about the questionable role of a

[@thomaspaine5091]

thanks mark glade you are feeling better

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks Tom, day by day...and did put in full day yesterday. Just getting older...like my dad said to me years back, "if I knew i'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself." His words ring of much truth for me, too. I'll turn 70 in January, time flies when you're having fun and I've indeed had a lot of fun and great fishing opportunities during my time. Have a few more things on the bucket list before I give up the ghost, and I've fished with plenty of guys a decade older on our charters.

[@NlcaaOrg]

Very informative video. You reassured me that I made the correct purchase of the 60 narrow.

[@Tony67032]

Mark, always a honest person, no b.s. about any product he sell, maybe others will follow no matter if a brand is their sponsor, how often happens.

[@awilderireland]

That paint job looks like it's already thrown in the towel and is heading for the bar. I like the cut of your jib young man. 😊 So sick of all the sell, sell, sell no negative comments bs online these days.

[@rumpestillskin4671]

Mark, we love you. You always tell the truth.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks, I try..., can certainly be wrong and there are a lot of guys who know a heck of a lot more than I do about this stuff. I'm just a plunker, not a gear head, your basic fisherman/consumer of gear who loves the widgets and fishing in general.

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

I have had a lot of reels but had to kind of fill the boat this past spring for guests and the family. I gave these a good look but I preferred the Cavalla 2 speed. There are issues with both but the anodization just feels so much better in hand while fishing. A painted reel just doesn't feel as premium to me. Completely superficial but it matters for some reason. The Cavalla clearly isn't my personal Alijos or Makaira collection but we've caught a lot of big fish this summer on them. My best fishing buddy caught a 70lb amberjack on the Cavalla 12ii fishing a jig which was quite a feat to me. Hard pulling fish on structure and the Cavalla was a quality winch. One thing is I bought a couple of the blue Cavalla's you had for sale and that blue is just awesome. Not sure why but the color they used there is excellent. It really looks good.

[@williamhartsell6390]

I got a bluefin on my last trip on a 25n i bought off you guys. I had a 25nld2 gen 1 and was using a flatfall on 40lb and got 3 more hooked that way. I get the one piece frame. But i feel like penn chnaged too much. Ill wait a few years before purchasing.

[@jake9705]

13:59 -- Mark, really appreciate your honesty about your own inventory and especially your POLITICS! 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 Question though: I'm a rookie angler who only recently started fly-lining with conventional reels (casting live bait). Is this issue with lack of free spool a Penn problem or is it a lever-drag problem? I heard from other tackle shops that lever drags naturally have worse free spool than star drags because the lever drag mechanism is "attached to the spool at all times." I'm not an engineer nor am I an experienced enough fisherman to know if that's true or not. But I know I have some trouble fly-line casting in free spool when the drag is calibrated properly on my lever drag Okuma Custom Blue 5N (drag at "Strike" 33% test of weakest part of line).

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Since Avet introduced leverdrags with great freespool almost 20 years ago, following some of the enhanced thinking provided by Cal Sheets on updating Internationals in the late '80's and 90's, there is minimal if any freespool concerns with better quality leverdrags. They spin just fine for our use. The one Fathom I showed that had bad freespool was ONLY that particular model, I tried to express that point. The others we received were very good in that respect. It's a problem on one size and I believe Steve Carson may have addressed the issue in a post he made to this video. He mentioned a different drag cam which is to be used in the single speed version, made for lighter line tests. Given what we saw with the bad 60N, I'm now thinking it's likely they made use of the wrong cam in assembly. Freespool was fine at lighter setting but horrible as drag load increased to what would be appropriate for say 60# line. Steve mentioned the single speeds in that size and 40N would be optimized for 20# mono, thus the binding higher tests. Regarding your Cavalla, I guess my question would be what is the drag setting, how many pounds of drag is the reel set for measured at the strike position?

[@jake9705]

@@CharkBaitUSA -- Was calibrated to 13 LBS of drag at "Strike." Here are some details and thoughts: Advertised max-drag pressure for Okuma Custom Blue 5NII Strike = 15 LBS Full = 24 LBS Line setup: 40 LB-test Power Pro classic braid mainline to three feet of 40 LB-test Daiwa flouro leader. Three piece Okuma travel rod. Targetting dorado by casting live bait. A tackle shop employee using a spring-scale calibrated the "Strike" to 33% of 40 LBS, or 13 LBS of drag. "Full" resulted in about 20 LBS of drag. With this loadout I was hardly able to cast a large sardine more than 12 feet from the cattle boat rail. This was my first trip casting a convetional reel, however I had practiced on the beach extensively with a 2 oz lure before sailing out so as not to be "that guy" learning on the boat when he should have practiced first at home. Had no trouble casting the lure on the beach 30+ yards. I made sure the line-to-line knot was always past the tip before casting. (With a spinning reel I can cast just about anything any distance with any rod, no problem.) Here were the explanations I received for the poor casting performance on my reel: 1) According to me -- I didn't practice enough with a live bait since I did not have access to them at home. Probably mostly my fault. 2) Experienced deckhand on the charter boat Patriot -- "It's normal to only be able to cast 12 feet with a sardine on a conventional reel." 3) Experienced 50 y.o. fisherman on the Patriot -- "You bought your reel brand new and didn't get it serviced immediately? What are you, an idiot? It's been sitting on the shelf for years and the grease seized up." 4) Employee at Charkbait -- "The cheap Power Pro white braid you're using is not good. It's got a sticky wax on it that inhibits free spooling. This reel free spools fine." 5) Owner of Tackle Shop #2 where I bought the three piece travel rod -- "Despite the fact that we sold you this rod and told you to your face it's great for fly lining, it is actually not at all good for fly lining [three piece Okuma Nomad Xpress boat travel rod, medium action] 6) Owner of Tackle Shop #3 -- "You should have used a rubber swimbait to immitate the live sardine and practiced with that. Also the cheap Power Pro line is more or less velcro to itself. Get better braid or add a much, much longer top shot of fluoro so the knot never goes through the guides when casting. This reel free spools fine." Your employee and the owner of Tackle Shop #3 were very convincing, especially since they demonstrated that the braid was in fact sticking to itself a considerable amount. I'm hoping that was the major issue.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@jake9705 Interesting range of input you mention, pretty amazing. We are not fans of powder pro here, never have been even 15-20 years back. As to drag, on a straight pull, not on a rod with an arc, I more often set my own drag at 25% of the lightest line test, if on a rod with an arc up to 30. Not a huge difference, but that's my own preference. As we get closer to the max end of the manufacturer's rated drag numbers the reel will display less freespool performance. So you could drop back a tad just to check. Sticky braid, yep that could be a culprit, shorter rod vs longer rod could also make a bit of a difference in how well things load up on a cast and of course bait size/weight come into play. Comment #3, reel has not been sitting on a shelf for years, new models, new manufacture. Comment #2, pretty ridiculous. #1 - you are a mature adult, good point and practice always helps...me too. #4, I wish my employee had not referred to PP quite as negatively as he did, not so diplomatic. It's more my place to be the obnoxious biased guy and my employees to express the more soft spoken line. Comment from the tackle shop #3 seems reasonable. I think you learned to avoid tackle shop #2. Nothing wrong with the rod, lure weight may have an issue. When I see a good deckhand on the Rooster or RP help out a struggling fisherman by casting for them and almost immediately getting bit, well it goes to the experience and practice part of the equation. They make me feel like a newbie by comparison. Then again, you can cure a lot of casting challenges by bait selection. A hotter/better bait will cover that distance you lack on the cast, the hardest bait you can catch in the livewell might overcome any shortcoming of your casts. Bring along a dip-net...

[@jake9705]

@@CharkBaitUSA -- Thank you for the response. Appreciate the tips. Your employee was more diplomatic than it seemed in my comment; don'y want to get anyone in trouble 😂 In fact I was very happy he explained to me the problem as well as showed how the PP braid on my reel was sticking. I'm driving past several other tackle shops to visit Charkbait and am very pleased with the service so far 👍

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

I feel like I should be a youngster and say "first" Mark given I'm the first to comment. But I am no youngster and yes, the consequence is that you and I are screwed going forward for the next soo many years. We will be paying off the $5,200,000,000,000 this government has spent in two years for a long time coming! I may not be right at retirement age, but my retirement age has taken a beating. We work too hard to be put in this spot, but not much we can do. Onto the reels, I don't own a Fathom but I have a number of hours with them. Great pieces, but I wasn't in love as much as others. I found the reel to be weighted awkwardly left and right and when reeling in it felt like the reel was moving side to side on me. Plenty powerful and has caught a ton of big fish. Great price for a two speed. I'll stay with my higher end products but for guys to get into it they are a good product for sure.

[@77jaycube69]

Im looking forward to tyring out the 40n. I think the T-Bar is going to be nice to have.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Roger that, I've always preferred the canted T style handles especially as line class bumps up.

[@zeauz]

cant wait to get my hands on 40n left handed. just ordered one on black friday from ya, hope they come in stock soon!

[@albrendel9177]

I’m new to fishing for larger Tuna. I bought the 60N from another dealer as an entry level rig. They spooled it with 100lb braid at my request. I got home and set the drag to 20 lb at strike with a spring scale. I quickly realized the free spool was gone. I went back to the shop two days later and was told that’s how these larger reels with heavier drags are. I kept it though I was uncomfortable about it. I believe they would have made me eat the cost of the braid and installation if I returned it since they were telling me it was normal. Thank you for putting this video out. Now I know I’m not crazy, or at least I’m not alone. Hopefully they step up and stand behind what they sold me.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

It is not normal and not acceptable. The reel has a problem and Penn or the Dealer need to intervene. Dealer could have stripped off the line and given it back to you and credited the reel, or done an exchange to something else. The reel I showed in the video came from a client we shipped. He opted to go with an International, we used same line on the swap and all was good... Here's what I think is going on: Penn has the single speed version which I've not come to understand was made to fish 20 lb line, different drag cam. I STRONGLY suspect that the wrong cams were installed in manufacture. That's my best guess, and I'll follow up with Steve Carson w/Penn and pass along the info. Steve has added some insights to this video discussion, he may already be on it. I'll be dollars to donuts the wrong cam was used in manufacture. Here's where factory location and service come into play. Avet, Okuma, Daiwa, Accurate, all these firms could/can address product problems quickly and efficiently, all have West Coast service centers in place to handle fixing or replacing defective gear. Penn is the hardest of firms from this West Coast dealer's perspective. I don't have local recourse, don't have a local solution, and I'm frankly spoiled by the extent firms like Okuma and Avet have gone to make the product ownership experience more positive for their "end user/consumer."

[@albrendel9177]

@@CharkBaitUSA Thank you very much for the response. I look forward to any information you can share with me. I’ll wait and see what the dealer and Penn decide to do.

[@jorgeposadas1192]

I left penn's back in 1990 when I discovered newall's and then shimano's and then avets, it's still avets.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

No argument from me on that one Jorge.

[@anthonygregorio2208]

Excellent review! Would you recommend this reel, specifically the 40NLD2 as a good jigging reel for YFT or BFT?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

It's a matter of price point and how much you want to invest into your fishing gear. The piece lends itself to 60-80# applications. The gear ratio, low gear is now better suited to larger fish.. That's a plus. But, it's a light bodied reel and not made up to the level of other reels which are made from better stuff. As example, Avet's HX Raptor is machined aluminum, Okuma's Alijos 16 (similar size) is made from machined aluminum, Okuma Makaira, made from machined aluminum (with 5 year warranty) as is Penn's Torque (suffers from too high a low gear for the application mentioned) and International 16 (which is made from the right stuff), The Fathoms offer good performance at a low price. Will they hold up as long as the others I mentioned, I do not believe so. Will they catch you some fish, sure bet. But, their lifespan will be less. The better gear I mentioned become lifetime products, while I consider the Fathoms to be disposable. No knock, but one does get what they pay for and lower price is indicative of poorer materials and construction. They get a guy into the game at a shallower price, but investing more has lasting merit. Just my opinion....

[@MrEli204]

Got to love old fisherman. Hey, what do you think about this reel? Well, let me tell you about the damn government…..

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Gotta sneak in the political crap on the sly or the YT censors would have cancelled my channel years ago, just as they did so many others over voicing opinions counter to the dominant dictated political line - eg. WuFlu origin, election cheating, vax effectiveness, MRNA-shot risks, FDA/CDC/WHO collusion with drug companies, WEF Klaus Schwab, Bill Gates and genocide...many channels were totally cancelled over the past 3 years for voicing opinions which, with time, were proven correct - censorship for political reasons. The fishing stuff is just a cover so I don't get banned. Okay, perhaps that was said in part as a joke. But, it's darn hard for me to separate social/political life from fishing. It's like a venn diagram, there's an overlap between politics and fishing that can't really be avoided: MLPA, Packard Foundation, fuel costs, business closures due to govt over-reach, supply chain concerns... Over the years, some of the people I've respected the most were not afraid to voice an opinion counter to the dominant narrative regardless of that putting them in the minority position. I think of Russ Izor as one such person, with great respect. He was right more often than not, and what he said caused at least me to rethink my own opinion. Thanks for visiting this grumpy old fisherman's channel and hope you do visit our shop or website.

[@terryclark3937]

Your reviews are so good ty

[@moshesmoving]

Dollar is worth less than in 2012 but the yuan is worth even less relatively speaking. Some of the increase in price may have more to do with covering the US costs such as marketing and in-continent transportation.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Valid points, especially given Chinese manipulation of their currency as a means of maintaining trading position. Thanks for the comment.

[@conquestdz]

It's been a year. Any updates on the 80?

[@sicklocs714]

Just got a 60N for Christmas and noticed the free spool right away was gone at 25lb drag. Will be going in to see if I can get that issue fixed from the retailer I bought from. Or should directly contact penn myself? Thanks and great video

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Hi Miguel, not sure your location so not certain of your options. I'd suggest contacting the retailer first.

[@sicklocs714]

I'm in orange county and was bought at Turner's fountain Valley. I'll see if the can help me out.

[@civic30045]

The shimano speedmaster 16 is the same is the same with the Greek spool at 15 but 20 drags for 65 test there’s like no free spool

[@xhammerhead22x]

Any word when they are gonna update the torque models with the new gear ratios?Wanna get that 40n.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

No idea and nothing that they've informed me about - not surprising. Penn does not do a good job communicating to dealers and frankly seems not to give a rats ass about 'em other than a few "buddies." There's new ownership in place, perhaps they'll be better than prior regimes, but thus far I'd say they are terrible in this respect, the worst we deal with unfortunately. The drag issue on the 60N is a good indicator of the lack of communication. We're discovering things and trying to figure out problems, but doing so in a vacuum. I'm betting Penn knew the issue well over a month ago and kept a lid on it. Love Steve Carson, but I have no trust in Pure Fishing given a 20 year history of some very sketchy policies and decisions under 4-5 changes in ownership, new ownership which is now in place has not made me feel any more a part of the firm's team. A lot of top down dictates... Maybe just too big to care about a little guy like me, but those factories who have put the effort into our account have certainly benefited greatly, numbers prove that point. We'll do 4-5 times the volume with Okuma and Avet than with Penn... They're too big to care.

[@johnsmith-xd9ej]

haha….Penn is always playing favorite not a surprise…

[@jared7668]

Out on the east coast, Va, 60 & 80 are intriguing. Would you prefer the Torque if the money was not a deal breaker? Visx just seems A LOT heavier…

[@CharkBaitUSA]

If given the choice I'd be taking the Torques in a heartbeat. That's especially so for models 30 down. At the 40/60 size the lower gearing of the new Fathoms is a plus, a big plus. BUT, I'd still be all over the Torques given construction materials. You do get what you pay for...except with the bike makers stuff (just had to toss that in). VISX, now we're getting more robust with a lower low gear. If there's trolling duty in the mix, then the International is the way to go - very much preferable with that in mind and/or larger fish on the other end of the line. Weight equals strength, for trolling duty I'll go with the more robust gear and my good friend Rod Holder couldn't care less about that insignificant detail when "he's" holding the gear.

[@virusthewolf]

You mentioned the ports on the reel at 5:40. What they are for?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Those are openings on the frame, sideplate or gear housing which allow water to drain and air to flow. Helpful to have on reels in my estimation, will benefit owners' efforts at cleaning and preventing corrosion.

[@virusthewolf]

@@CharkBaitUSA I thought that what they would be for just wanted to make sure. Thank you so much for the reply.

[@noelconklin5916]

Just received my new 40NLD2 today, tested the free spool with the drag set and it didn’t move. This is also defective just like the 60 size you showed on this video. I wouldn’t have even thought to check it if not for this video. Thank you. I’m very disappointed with my purchase and hope to not have an issue returning it.

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

If purchased from us, no problem at all. Just contact us via email to support or info mailboxes. We have not seen any big problem with these reels other than issue I showed in vid. Not a common problem, prob 2-3%. That is not too bad for a new series of reels.

[@johntuttle9544]

@@MarkSmith.CharkBait Its a simple assembly issue. Some of the assembly techs are screwing up the orientation of the washers inside.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@johntuttle9544 Similar to what some guys have done with Avet reels, flip-flopping cupped washers to gain a bit more drag. Problem for Penn was their workers reduced drag performance rather than enhanced. What you suggest is a good explanation, though the folks at Penn have not offered lowly dealers the same information...

[@Justhere105]

Absolutely love the economics lesson to start😂👌🏾

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thank you sir, seems pretty fundamental to me but sadly lacking in many folks thinking. Some quite sensitive to any perceived criticism of current events or "leadership"...

[@Justhere105]

@@CharkBaitUSA agreed! In 2020 the US printed a trillion dollars. We’re on the cusp of something unlike we’ve seen in a very long time. Hopefully the fishing industry is able to keep up.

[@kuraxuan5932]

I live in Vietnam. Very passionate about fishing. that the economy does not permit ownership of film reels made in the United States. I really like American made stuff.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks for visiting our site and best of luck to you in your fishing adventures.

[@kuraxuan5932]

@@CharkBaitUSA I only watch the things I love through your KZbin channel. because I don't have a lot of money to buy it

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@kuraxuan5932 I well understand, and appreciate you visiting and sharing your thoughts and experiences here. Our world is not so large a place... Our retail shop's manager's parents were originally from Viet Nam, and many of the children I worked with during my time in education were Vietnamese immigrants. We see many businesses moving factories from China to Viet Nam. Hopefully economy continues to progress and your opportunities improve. Fishing can be inexpensive or expensive hobby, and the joy that comes from fishing does not necessarily carry a big price. I've traveled to many places, fishermen are the same everywhere, regardless of how expensive the gear or opportunities to fish. We all have fun fishing, doesn't matter the species, the size, the gear - true fishermen simply enjoy their time spent in this diversion from our typical day. Best wishes to you Kura.

[@johnsmith-xd9ej]

that’s the problem living in an undemocratic country…a communist one…you don’t have the basic simple freedom of choice….but anyway you are still lucky have access to You Tube.

[@caseygreen9143]

Love the honesty, I’m hoping they can fix the problems with the 80 to have as a backup big tuna reel to my Avet 50w without shelling out another $500++. What are your thoughts on the big speedmasters (size 20 and 25) from Shimano in comparison? I have the 12 but haven’t heard much about the bigger ones

[@tunanorth]

it should be noted, the 80 Fathom size is not intended to be a substitute for an International "IGFA 80" size reel, or even a 50W size. The FTHII80LD2 holds 300 yards of 80-pound mono, about the same as a 6/0 Senator. It is about the same size tactically as the International 16VISX, though as a "Medium Frame" reel like all Fathoms, it is several ounces lighter than the "Heavy Frame" International 16VISX.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Not fair to ask me about the bike maker's product line. I'm not a fan, don't carry 'em and have not since 2005 when their restraint of competition, anti-competitive practices and basic price fixing and disregard to laws of supply and demand created a bit of friction and me ultimately ceasing doing business with them. I am quite good at carrying a grudge, have not sold their gear, they've not profited off of my business since 2005. But, back to issue at hand, PENN. No doubt any issue with their product will be addressed properly as they always do. I think it was just an assembly issue, not unexpected with a new line. Penn isn't supplying 60 & 80 size right now, so I'm thinking they're looking at any issue on the factory side. Don't expect the Fathom to duplicate your Avet 50, but as a back up the 80 might not be a bad call. It's a hard one for me, knowing heavy gear is intended for heavy fish and high drag loads... New reel, no real world feedback from folks... Having said all the above, the shimano idea is not where I'd go. Heavy line, intended big fish...LOOK AT THE GEAR RATIO - the shimano piece absolutely sucks (professional opinion). Their gearing is more like the old Penn Fathom at 2.3:1 on their largest reel. That's a deal breaker. Either be prepared to drop 600 or more on another Avet, Penn International or Okuma Makaira or go Fathom II and save a couple hundred and roll the dice. The bike-maker's product if not worth consideration simply due to the gearing. I can say this after being on a good size tuna for over 4 1/2 hours simply because I was using the wrong reel with a faster low gear. Never again...

[@caseygreen9143]

Thanks for the info. This all definitely helps. I was planning to use the 80n as a backup to be exactly that, similar to a 16visx. The gear ratio change would be nice since I have both first gen 40n and 60 fathoms. Noted on the Shimano stuff. I had no idea. Sorry I don’t mean to bring the bike brand up again but I have one last question regarding them. Would a TLD 30AII with a heavier Tiburon frame from Cal and upgraded drags be a better backup than my 60 first gen fathom then? It has a lower 1.7 low gear. After your comment that’s where I’m leaning since I already have it and will probably wait until Penn irons out the kinks on the 80n.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@caseygreen9143 It will be a question then of line test and needed capacity. Rather large difference between a 16, 30 wide and an 80N regardless of frame and drag plate improvement. I think that the capacity question needs to be addressed first, what amount do you need. Then the reel will come close to selecting itself...

[@caseygreen9143]

Just looking for at least 600-700 yards of 100lb braid which both the 30TLD and fathom 80 will do. I’ll give it a go, thanks

[@kingofslotsmillion3263]

Im going fishing for blue fin and yellows , out of san diego. What rod would you pair this reel with . Also shoukd i buy the 60 or 30?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Can't say without more info from you, and best to contact me thru our shop and you can reach me by email of phone thru CharkBait.com (info@...).

[@michaelhough6641]

So have you guys gotten a better idea on the numbers. I'm rant thinking about a 40lh 2 speed and want to know if i can put 80# braid with a top shot.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Most go 80# braid on the 40N size two speeds, can hold 500 yds braid with shorty leader or 300 allowing for near 100 yds of 60# mono on top. GS< MS

[@nancyn3863]

So do you prefer the newer or older version?

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

Can’t say yet. Time will tell, both have pluses and minuses. Proof is in the fishing.

[@JVRottweil]

Just got one. Feels like some slight resistance when reeling. Can hear and feel gears. Not bad. But is it normal? Buttery smooth is not a word I would use. I am used to freshwater baitcasters though so my expectations may be off.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Which model?

[@JVRottweil]

@@CharkBaitUSA 15 XN. Its like a whirring sound that I can also feel. OK I watched your video again. When you spun it at 11:58. Same sound. I guess its ok

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@JVRottweil Sound to be expected and actually having line on the reel dampens the noise level. The reel spins several times faster than you are cranking the handle, you're hearing the gears do their thing me thinks.

[@JVRottweil]

@@CharkBaitUSA Right on. Its my first 2 speed conventional. I am just used to small freshwater rigs. I all appreciate the video and feedback.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

​@@JVRottweil Hope you got her from us. If not, well you've now discovered us...

[@johnsmith-xd9ej]

We’re still wondering if the guyz who decided to use this “Silver paint” still on the job. They messed up this one bigtime. How come they missed the Daiwa Saltist history on this silver paint…these folks are just sleeping on their job maybe or bunch on incompetents😉….If I were Penn CEO, i’l fire them right there & there!

[@nug_man]

If I was penn ceo I'd fire myself

[@davidkirksey8521]

I heard Penn hired a Diawa guy to help design this, rumor maybe idk

[@tunanorth]

@@davidkirksey8521 Definitely false.

[@TheNeuromorph]

Thought on the phathom ii 30 2 speed as a 50 lb setup

[@CharkBaitUSA]

That's a very good place for that model to focused, I'd say 50-650 is the sweetspot for this size, 60-80 for 40N, 30-40 for 25 size..

[@waddell7354]

You mentioned northern california catching the bluefin and I had to laugh. I wish my dad's boat was not down the 2 months we could have gone after them but with this el Nino happening we might just get a round 2 😏

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Those fish have been making the migration for several years, perhaps much longer than most recognize. Jigging and trolling have both proven good methods, but you've got to be rigged up for the potential size of these things or there's no point in pursuing. Feel free to contact us or me personally at the shop.

[@waddell7354]

@CharkBaitUSA you may be thinking of San Francisco? I fish out of humboldt bay. We have been seeing very few accidental bluefin caught while albacore fishing. Last year out of shelter cove, they got some 100 lb plus bluefin with a little bit of consistency. Which is the first time our fleet has seen that. All I know is I have a 150 lb class rod with 9/0 penn senator ready to go if the chance arises

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@waddell7354 Very few guys have been rigged for the sport, as a result not many fish caught up north in Oregon and NorCal. I've been watching a migration every fall for the past 20+ years, September to early October further north in Oregon. So, while you're right regarding me thinking you were further south, I'll suggest the migration pattern has only improved and you should have a solid whack at these things. Hopefully your 9/0 size reel isn't an old Penn 9/0 Senator - that won't cut it. You'll want heavy line and drag capability to justify the line test required, 130# braid, 100-130# leader, drag set to 35-40 lbs, 2 speed gear. Look to the high speed trolling technique when the time is right.

[@alamsyah2845]

Ada jual spart FENN fathom ll kka

[@chrisleffler3433]

Picked up the 40NLD2, set it for 17.5 lbs of drag, and free spool was A-OK. It’s a nice piece. Loaded mine with 65lb braid and set it up on a HAXC780H2x 40-100lb. That 1.9-1 on the low end is a winch. I view the 40NLD2 as a legit 60lb reel, and the max I’m willing to stand at the rail with for any length of time. I don’t see the purpose of loading 80 on this reel as my back won’t be able to take advantage of another 6lbs of drag at strike.

[@joshuaheavenridge6573]

Would you recommend the 15XN for SPJ?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Nice size for that application. Within its price range, fine option.

[@mosin9105]

Thanks

[@elpuzzlo6800]

Great job!

[@I_am_archie]

I wish the 60 was available as Left hand retrieve. How do you think you would spool up the 40?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Most have gone 80# braid on the 40N's, good room for that use. While the 60 isn't made in lefty form, Penn did expand the models which are, like the 40N. That's another positive with the new series.

[@I_am_archie]

@@CharkBaitUSA thanks Mark

[@SDBaseballDad]

Thank you for this video. Any guess as to when we might be clear of the potential first run manufacturing issues on the 60N?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Received more 60N's, so far all just fine. Not perfect, but then again this series, especially in the larger sizes, target a price point and there are bound to be compromises. But, on what we've now received we can get appropriate drag for intended line class. That's what we expect to see, and they're meeting expectation.

[@ebmixez7621]

Is the 60 fixed yet or not ?

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

The issue we found on first production was corrected. Still criticisms presented are accurate. The larger models can serve an angler well, get them into the game relatively inexpensively, but if budget allows there are far better options available from both Penn and other manufacturers.

[@andrewmorke]

Thanks for your excellent review. A painted finish is a deal-breaker for me. There's a reason I like to come in and buy my reels and tackle from you guys.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

[@tunanorth]

To clarify, all diecast aluminum reels are painted [including Gen1 Fathoms].

[@HoxFeesh]

Has the issue with the 60N 2 speed been fixed yet?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

I can't speak for Penn, just my own observations. It seemed to me that issues were associated with first production and likely a parts issue in assembly - wrong cam. I can easily be incorrect and Steve or another can provide better info. I've not seen same issue with inventory arriving later, and the issue was most associated with the larger sized reels, 40/60/80.

[@HoxFeesh]

@CharkBaitUSA Awesome. Thanks for the quick reply and info. This includes being politically incorrect and telling folks the TRUTH. We're doing it to ourselves. Everyone should read Lincoln's speech to the Young Men’s Lyceum of Springfield (1838).

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@HoxFeesh Lincoln said it, Eisenhower said it, Kennedy said it, we the people have not been in charge. I've gotten a fair number of knocks walking a tightrope with YT and some clients regarding expressing of opinions... Cancel Culture is a sad chapter in our collective history. The level of brainwashing being done, simply amazing. Hopefully the Great Awakening continues, and we all have a small part to play in changing the course of history. The plandemic certainly should have been enough for all to realize we've been sold a big bowl of BS, and it isn't stupidity, it's all planned to manipulate towards a predetermined outcome. People should be pissed off, and in truth it's one reason why we all need to go fishing - there's freedom out there on the water where we set our own course.

[@terryclark3937]

Love your vids ty

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Thank you sir.

[@TwiztidPain]

They are also at a price point where fishermen can afford them not breaking the bank for a two-speed but I go Avet for the extra money.

[@tunanorth]

It should be noted that in the Fathom II lineup, the "Single-Speed" 40N and 60N will probably not be very useful for the west coast angler, wahoo or otherwise. The "Single-Speed" versions of these two models have a different drag cam, and are optimized for 20-pound monofilament [40N], and 30-pound monofilament [60N]. It will not be possible to dial them up to give enough drag to use with even 50-pound mono. "However", the 40N "TWO-Speed" model has been substantially increased in speed from the old 5.1- 1 high speed to now a 6-1 high speed [50 IPT].

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

Great comment and major error for the guys hoping for the burner wahoo bomb reel. Will have to beg Steve to intervene or have some optional cams. Yeikes!

[@tunanorth]

@@MarkSmith.CharkBait The "light drag" single speeds are incredibly popular outside of SoCal, far beyond our relatively small band of wahoo chasers. It was precisely because of those specialized models that we got the 40N two-speed as a "San Diego Special", with the increased "High" for both wahoo bombs and also local bluefin jigging, and the lower "Low", again for those bluefin, and also for Guadalupe [hopefully we will get that back].

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@tunanorth Huge thanks for your input Steve. Agreed, the new 2 speeds address this issue in a positive way and the potential need for a guy to buy a single purpose wahoo burner reel can be replaced by a more versatile 2 speed. I like the plan...but recognize long range royalty Wahoo Bob Cherry will not be pleased.

[@tunanorth]

@@CharkBaitUSA Ha-Ha, I'll explain it to him!

[@albrendel9177]

I apologize that I’m having difficulty understanding your post /answer. Does Penn have a drag cam designed for the 60N 50 lb max drag spec which is clearly shown on their website?

[@toomasmirka2049]

Is it worth buying the model 60N because it has drag issue?

[@toomasmirka2049]

I need reel for using heavy baits with bait boat in long distance (target is big halibut). This 60N model is good - very fast and big capacity, harness lugs, normal price and design, but now I heard about this drag problem...

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

Of course it is. I informed folks of a potential issue with first production run on this model. FIRST RUN. Penn will address as needed, could be a few pieces or could be a few hundred. Regardless, Penn has no gain in offering a POS. The 60, 40, 80…all represent improvements over the older models in terms of gear ratio, design and in some cases -60- size. Just check the reel you buy or purchase from a reliable source that stands behind what they sell - as we do at CharkBait.

[@albertoleon-t9j]

Honest man

[@gnehzekul]

the dollar has gone up against the yuan. I think the costs of shipping is back to normal but the cost of raw materials hasn't

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Good point, China govt. does indeed assist their export sector by manipulating their currency which makes international transactions more predictable. But, there's also an import duty on fishing gear, an excise tax as well. The Import duty was not in play back prior to 2016, is still in play now. So, I'll say we're still dealing with costs greater than they were, manufacturers and distributors are trying their best to maintain value for the consumer in the face of rising costs.

[@wilk7958]

Is the 80 comparable to a 30 wide?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

In terms of relative size, capability or line capacity? Size-wise, it's taller and skinnier, capacity-wise it holds less line 300 yds of 80 vs 400 (mono spec), capability-wise...time will tell.

[@ReelAZMatt]

RUMBLE? YES! THANKS MARK! No more screwutube to watch Charkbait!

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Quite tired of the censorship on YT. Interesting comments I've received by the WOK mob on YT as well, a focus on stifling dialog. You'll see a comment on this vid by an "edward billy" trying to do the same. Sad commentary on folks understanding of how our nation was founded, how it should work and what's become so very wrong. All the censors Musk fired at Twitter work at YT...

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

What's that noise you make in between words, about? is it a regional thing instead of saying "um"? I watch all your vids & always wanted to know. Cheers from NZ

[@CharkBaitUSA]

I'm not conscious of what you describe. Not scripted, just a flow of thought so could very well be just a pause prior to yacking or sucking up air. I'm not a professional talking head, just a fisherman... Hell, I never knew I snored until my dear wife recorded me one night...she's had all sorts of fun with that over the past 15 years...! As the late great philosopher Popeye the Sailor said, "I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam."

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

@@CharkBaitUSA Haha cool. Wasn't being cheeky, just never heard "gnow" instead of "um". Wondered if it's a regional thing. I really appreciate your videos, as you often answer & describe things I want to know. While I have your experienced ear. I was wondering if you thought it would be okay & not creep, if I put either Berkeley Trilene Big Game 100lb mono, with a diameter of 0.899 or Momoi Hi-Catch 80lb with a dia of 0.91, would be okay going into 130lb Powerpro Hollow-ace? and do you think the Momoi 80lb would be as strong as the Trilene 100lb, if a strength test was done? cos the momoi is a lower rating, but a bit thinker. Anayltic Fishing did a strength test of the Berkeley 100lb, and it broke at 125lb. Do you think the momoi would be underrated also & be a similar strength, cos it's a tiny bit fatter? Would like to use the momoi, but not if it's weaker than the trilene. I know it's rated higher, 100lb vs 80lb. But surely the momoi is the same or stronger being a tiny bit fatter & just underrated, being thicker than your average 37kg/80lb line, for trolling purposes & added abrasion resistance. So to some up: is either ok into 130lb hollowace? and would the thicker 80lb momoi be as strong as the 100lb Trilene, even though rated lower on the label. Thanks for your knowledge mate & keep up the great work. You're fully appreciated. Kia ora from New Zealand (The Angler's Eldorado, according to Zane Grey)

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

this guy scientifically tests many commonly used lines kzbin.info/www/bejne/foCpo32AlJiCrsU

[@CharkBaitUSA]

@@Tight--LiNeZ An Australian - Paulus - did a wonderful job confirming and testing lines some years back. He was most interested in braids. I believe he had some health issues and ceased the testing which became pretty involved from a time standpoint. Berkeley used to be very well thought of on the long range scene, it was the go-to line back in the early 2000's. But it lost it's luster since and never regained the support. Izorline and Momoi have both been more widely accepted, both have properties which anglers appreciate, Berkeley has relatively thin diameter but from the testing I've tried to do with some confirmation from others, it's actual break strength proved lower than the other two lines mentioned. Both the person you mention and my own testing gear appears the same or similar. Both depend upon the hand crank, which introduces another set of variables. The better test equipment, from Chatillon, runs about four times the money, the line holders alone an extra $750 each (my figures from five or six years ago when I entertained buying one. $12K plus for proper testing gear, anything less than that will not be fully accurate but can provide a measure of usefulness from a relative standpoint. I haven't fished Berkeley myself for over a decade.

[@Tight--LiNeZ]

@@CharkBaitUSA Okidoki, thanks for your reply mate.

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

Is an 80 fathom really intended to compete with an International 80 in terms of size?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Hi Jeff, I can't see where it can compete with a true 80 but for the guys just trying to fill a slot on a budget perhaps it may suffice. Personally, I wouldn't trust it as a true 80 with serious intent. But like I mentioned, for those big catfish... I'm skeptical as can be on this size, but time will tell.

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

@@CharkBaitUSA I just can't even imagine it competing with something like a Makaira 30 nonetheless an 80! I am skeptical as well but to be honest I was very skeptical of the original Fathom 2 speed also and it's turned out to get bit and kill fish. Perhaps I'm different but I'd fish that 60 size no heavier than 80lb and probably 60 or 65lb spectra. I'd run it at 18-22lbs of drag and on a private boat we can do so happily! Running 130lb line on anything like this seems very, very risky to me but you're right time will tell.

[@MarkSmith.CharkBait]

Ageeed.

[@tunanorth]

Not at all. The International 80 maintains the traditional "IGFA 80" size that has been around for 75+ years. Changing it now would definitely confuse people, so they are now just updated with generations [V, IV, etc]. The Fathom series uses Penn's newer sizing system, where whatever the number is, indicates that it holds 300 yards of "that" pound test mono. A Fathom 15 holds 300/15 mono, a Fathom 30 holds 300/30 mono, and the Fathom 80 will hold 300/80 mono, about the same as a 6/0 Senator. The "80" size Fathom FTHII80LD2 will not be a 130-200 pound reel like an "International 80" would be, though along with that, the Fathom has only about half the line capacity of the International. The Fathom 80 will be an 80-100 pound reel.

[@chelseapeters7187]

Not exactly sure how u fight ur fish but my Calcutta 400b will crank in anything unfortunate enough to snagged on the end of lure. I dont even use braided line. Thatll be the DAY i get spooled🙄

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Target larger fish and see the levelwind fail, line test inadequate for a larger grade fish, etc... Reel may be fine for your application, but larger fish demand more capable gear.

[@captpepin]

The dollar hit 10 year highs against: Pound, Yen and Euro this year. Japanese reels should basically be free in USD this year.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

The Pound, Yen,, Euro are even more screwed up as a consequence of the push by their respective countries central banks and leaders towards the Great Reset. They are further along on the road to collapse as intended by the World Economic Forum. One can say Trump slowed things down in USA and upset the planed reset timing, that's arguably why things are happening so fast now and why it was so important for the global cabal to get him out of office and castrate his administration from day one. Current installed governance in our country are doing all they can to catch up. My understanding is that the US dollar crashes later than the three you mention, but it too is being destroyed by our own installed "leaders" and the Fed (which is neither a federal govt entity nor a bank). The Omnibus bill is just another cog in the wheel of destroying the dollar. The debt faced by our children as a consequence of this spending can only be described as a treasonous calculated intentional act - it is not stupidity - it's purposeful. Conspiracy theories...more true than what the mainstream media feeds us (economics, elections, covid origin, facemasks, vax safety and efficacy, twitter collusion with govt., project mockingbird, CIA involved in domestic news media, MK Ultra /cia, FBI and DOJ politically weaponized, bio-labs in Ukraine, WEF agenda...). These are some of the reasons to get on a boat and go fishing, it's a lot more sane out on the water 3 miles out...

[@JeffSmith-eq3kc]

​@@CharkBaitUSAyepp. Can't have a strong dollar with 7+ percent inflation and skyrocketing interest rates. They can prop it up all they want artificially but the reality is the dollar itself is as weak as it's been in a long time. Judging by the people making the decisions in DC these days I don't see it getting any better anytime soon.

[@officialWWM]

You talk about exchange rate, try buying these in Australia! They are ridiculously expensive!

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Don't blame the manufacturer, blame your government. You too have problems created by your "central bank" just as we do. Thank the Rothchilds and others for it's creation, made for the wealth transfer from we citizens to those who control the banks thru the "tax" of inflation - which is simply the decline in value of currency thru govt spending beyond it's means. Politicians get to curry favor, pay back debts, and we people lose the value of our earnings. Prices don't go up, the value of our currency goes down and requires more fiat currency to purchase things. I remember 24 years ago when it was cheaper for me to buy a made in America Penn International from Australia and have it shipped back to me in the USA. The insanity...and yet another reason to get on a boat and go fishing, avoiding the bull shit of governments and our "elected" leaders.

[@officialWWM]

@@CharkBaitUSA amen sir! Thank god for fishing. It’s an opportunity to switch off for a while!

[@DavidKelly-zh1jo]

What's your thoughts would you recommend a Fathom 80 II or a Squall 30VSW for a tuna reel?

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Twofold questions: what line test is planned for this rig and secondly what style of fishing? Lets say we're looking at 80# on both. If trolling, then I opt towards the heavier bodied Squall if an International or other machined aluminum constructed reel is too dear in dollars. If reel is primarily used for work at the rail, flylining a bait, jigging...then the Fathom holds merit.

[@dylanclay2741]

Ive been die hard penn fan all my life but last few years they have been really cutting corners and making everything alot cheaper , plus their quality control sucks. Ive went to avet lx g2s for my cobia reels and haven't looked back .

[@leonardlucioscordeirokusdr5119]

L like this reel i will buy a 60 to troling and to fish live bait in Brazil, in 110 miles of Rio de Janeiro!

[@ericneering6357]

I’ve watched you only for a few minutes and boy do you try to paint the narrative very nicely I’m trying to tell you this it all has to do with profit it don’t cost them peanuts to build a couple bucks and they’re getting four or $500 for it think about itthis is greed why I can’t be strong enough it’s pretty simple

[@ericneering6357]

Just think your phones that you buy today cost 1/4 a quarter 1/4 for them to build them at after shipping and everything $.25. That’s how much they build a phone for in China so these are being built in China you telling me they cost more than having the phone bill, it’s the same price per unit greed, greed greed

[@FredLevinstein-sj1sx]

You're better off buying a Diawa saltiga trust me or a Shimano trinidad 1M%

[@pan8a]

I'll stick with my Avets which are made in the USA.

[@Fishwish24]

Worst reel ive ever owned.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

Sorry to hear, but well understood.

[@dragonsmugla]

Optimistic... Polite way of saying nowhere even close to what they say..

[@thatbeme]

Boggas reasons.... I left... No trumps, or Q for me...

[@CharkBaitUSA]

You are welcome to discuss fishing or economics any time...and free to have your own opinion, too. That's your right, just as it's my right to have a contrary opinion and express it. Difference is, I can back up my opinions and offer factual background while you can simply make a drive-by low iq post with no contribution other than expression of your own ignorance. Enjoy your unemployment, double digit (true) inflation, unvetted immigration, perversion of schools' purpose and support of endless wars numbnuts...

[@edwardbilly7428]

keep the political talking points out of your videos and ill come back.

[@CharkBaitUSA]

One of the great things about this country is a historic appreciation of the right of free speech, an open dialog and respect of ideas from which folks can come to their own conclusions. One of the characteristics of a totalitarian society is the lack of free speech and censorship. I value your right to express yourself on MY channel, just as I have a right to express my opinions. Problem with our society over the past few years is the attitude you have expressed, putting down a narrative which differs from your own. Frankly, I don't give a rats ass if you visit our channel or not if it's required that I give up my personal rights to having or sharing an opinion. You don't have to swallow what I express, you can digest, evaluate or ignore. You don't have a right to stifle anyone elses opinion. This ain't the old Soviet Union or the current CCP, no matter how much the WOK mob might like. You stifle opinions when your own can't stand up to scrutiny. Grow up.

[@johnsmith-xd9ej]

He may be a Putin, XI, Kim Jung Un, or Khameni fan boy Mark…lol😂