2023 Mac Pro 1 Week Review! What went wrong..

[@MaxTechOfficial]

What do you guys think about the 2023 Mac Pro? Should Apple have released this or waited for a better version?

[@kreigerbailey3550]

Portland, JAMAICA in the Building!!!

[@MeatMechArchitect]

It definitely needs a complete redesign, rather than what is essentially an “EV conversion.” Apple may end up announcing 3p GPU support at some point, but it’ll depend on how game and VR developers flesh things out. But there are way better ways to have architected this product. I would that I could speak with some of the folks that worked on this product.

[@bluedragonstudio]

It does make a good video. They other make the mistakes so others don’t have to. I might wait for a M3 to upgrade to a Mac Studio before ditching my 2019 Mac Pro

[@Greg00020]

its fine, people want pci express cards let them have them

[@jimcabezola3051]

When the M1 Mac Studio line came out, I thought Apple would NEVER release a Mac Pro. A Mac Pro with Apple silicon has no use case. Still...your new M2 Mac Pro is FAR less expensive than your old Intel one. I suspect it will retain more resale value than the Intel one, too. I never thought about resale value in computers until Apple silicon came out. I run a 8GB/256GB M1 Mac Mini. Also, I run Linux Mint 21.1 Cinnamon on my trusty OLD 2011 Intel Mac Mini...it runs faster on Linux than it did on MacOS.

[@digitalclips]

Come on Max, I think you knew all this before you bought it ...didn't you? (I am adding the wink, as I love Max, just ribbing him) ;)

[@hasansahin7965]

He bought it to inform the people like you, of course after make sure if this is correct or not, by making some tests

[@franzweber7494]

Max should have watched KZbin videos about Apple Macs. Maybe the content from iJustine

[@asafblasbergvideographer]

How nice! Apple gives you a keyboard and mouse! 😂

[@digitalclips]

@@hasansahin7965 I have worked with Apple since 1976 and owned several dealerships; believe me, he wasn't telling me anything I didn't know. I was just ribbing Max. He made it to make money from hits on KZbin which will hopefully cover his costs and more; it's his business and good for him.

[@mbvglider]

Every single person who bought it said that it’ll be a waste of money but I’m doing it for content. It’s not a mistake. It’s an investment into making content.

[@91loganator]

It seems like the M2 Mac Pro just exists so that they can say that the transition is complete. I can see them eventually adding a processor that is one step above the “Ultra,” and then making it exclusive to the Mac Pro. Until then, I don’t think it will sell very well.

[@Piketom1]

There are a small number of creatives and enterprise users who actually use the PCIE slots. Apple is just making them pay for the low production volume of the new Mac Pro. That’s my theory about why it is so much more expensive than the Mac Studio anyway.

[@21dazzer]

My theory is that they made up their minds sometime after announcing that the only machine left to transition that a Mac Pro isn’t a requirement. But to save face and because they have a load of cases left, they launched this peacemeal effort.

[@bartonlynch]

A new MP model with a superior chip than a M2 Ultra would require a whole new SoC design plus a dedicated manufacturing line in TSMC, this is too expensive for a model that constitutes a single digit percentage in Apples sales and shorter market share (the entire M1/2 manufacturing line is shared across all Mac models, with little variations and iterations as they are all based on a similar base design, making it financially viable since those are the best selling mainstream demanded models). Apple already attempted this special chip route with a "quad-Max" chip (an "Extreme" version of the M1 Max with four M1 Max dies glued together, unlike the Ultra that has two M1 Max dies). The yields were low -at high costs- and the scalability in performance was disproportionately small compared to a standard M1 Ultra, so they pulled the plug according to insiders whom leaked the plans and designs. This delayed the end of the transition beyond the promised deadline more than Apple wanted to admit. So the current 2023 Mac Pro was a stop gap, emergency "better than nothing" solution to avoid further embarrassment and get the press and public opinion pressure off their backs (plus get rid of their last supply contract with Intel). As bad as this unnecessary joke of computer is, it was the best strategy and business move on Apple's behalf. The pros got screwed as colateral damage, though.

[@austinokoh-esene99]

Plus they were able to start the clock on ending support of the Intel version.

[@Piketom1]

@@bartonlynch the real pros aren’t a significant market for Apple. They stopped being a “pro” brand a long time ago.

[@studiodsr]

Last year I bought an M1 Ultra Mac Studio with and external PCI chassis for my music studio and it’s been working like a dream. Have zero regrets about not waiting for the Mac Pro

[@raz318]

What's really funny is that their idea of the 2013 Mac Pro has finally come to fruition. The technology (Thunderbolt speeds, Apple Silicon) just needed to catch up for people to want to keep all their cards in an external enclosure. Although I don't use it anymore, I still have my trashcan Mac as a collector's item.

[@lancetheb.m.c]

I would think that it would make a great media device?

[@daveh6356]

shame Apple didn't produce Apple Silicon replacement GPU cards for the 2013 MP - as a nod/apology for users' patience.

[@Dave102693]

@@daveh6356or they can add back in egpu support

[@WiP999]

The 2023 Mac Pro is a product of Tim Cook's Apple. I have absolutely no doubt Steve Jobs would've fired anyone who put this Mac Pro in front of him. How we miss Steve Jobs! I've turned to a PC build for a proper workstation, it's the only sensible choice until Apple wake up.

[@cjadams7434]

Totally agree! - This wouldn’t have seen the light of day with steve.. and the whole expensive and disposable attitude and their fighting the right to repair.. is just horrible for the environment!

[@TerraThink]

What's wrong with the M2 Ultra Mac Studio?

[@Tominatort69420]

WHO THE F**K THOUGHT THAT A $7K WORKSTATION NEED HAVE SOLDERED RAM!!!! IT'S A WORKSTATION, NOT AN ULTRABOOK!!!!

[@JDW-]

Apple ignored the most basic advice of all: "if you don't do something right, don't do it at all." It is totally unacceptable that they released that thing only to fulfill a transition schedule promise. Yes, the Mac Studio may be good enough for most people these days, but so much more could have been done with that large enclosure. It's a travesty.

[@adzpana]

This is exactly why I love my 2019 Mac Pro which I purchased in 2022 seeing I only wanted Intel which goes along with it just like a normal PC. I did the same with my 2012 Mac Pro holding out for the announcement of trash can and the day of the announcement I bought the 2012 Mac Pro knowing it was the older version at that point. Call me old school but I needed and still do PCIe and back then had TBs of storage rust which is now converted into solid state. Not to mention my CPU was the 8 core on the 2019 which is now a 16 core plus ram I keep adding when I see fit. I like macs but with a PC style approach. Prob why I’ve gravitated to the Mac Pro

[@MelvinAstrahan-b3f]

The 2023 Mac Pro is exactly what I want and need for now and if and when Apple releases an upgraded version in a couple of years I will get yet another one then. I do not want a spaghetti tangle of wires and hubs and slow external chassis to connect my 20+ peripherals and drives, I want a REAL desktop mid-tower form factor with internal expansion.

[@ed61730]

Maybe it's time your went pc :)

[@mumblety96]

I agree 100%. Sub 30 TFLOPs ceiling is a JOKE in any tower workstation today.@@ed61730

[@michaellurie9138]

I believe the maximum Transfer speeds for thunderbolt for storage is about 3400 MB per second. If you need faster than that, you are going to have to go with the PCIe storage. That is just one reason that certain organizations and people really need a Mac Pro.

[@redbaronlast]

m2 max Mac studio is the sweet spot for me. Ultra compact, ultra silent, ultra performant, and actually not *that* expensive... (for me its with 12CPU/30GPU core, 32gb ram and just upgraded to 1tb SSD for twice the SSD speeds over the 512gb version )

[@c5ris620]

I’ve bought one. Exactly what I wanted. Basically a Mac Studio (in a nicer case) where I can run fast internal nvme drives and a couple of large Satas as well as a few more useful external ports for £2K after the vat comes off. What’s not to like? Whether the Mac Studio and Mac Pro are both too expensive is another argument but I’ve had 10 years professional usage out of my trash can 2013 Mac Pro (also labelled a failed platform)

[@BrianBoniMakes]

Let me understand this, there is only one PCI controller for all the slots therefore if your card requires Thunderbolt 4 speeds you can only put one card in? Might as well get a Studio Ultra and plug in 6 TB4 to PCI expansion chassises. You might even have to use to expansion chassises on the Pro if you require more than one fast PCI card.

[@helloscammer]

If Apple had just updated the 2019 MP with the latest Intel everything they would have had lots of happy customers. Instead... 👎

[@robgardner4754]

They would have been better off just making a case that was essentially a rack for multiple Mac studios, and having a way to daisy chain them together

[@redbaronlast]

That would be SICK!

[@digitalclips]

It is available as a rack version already.

[@david1610]

It is a version 1 place holder to say they have finiished replenishing the whole line. No more. No less.

[@pvdgucht]

Why does it matter that the PCIE bandwith is shared? There is no GPU so thats not taking all the bandwith. If your going to use it for storage it's great you can fill all the slots up with daughter cards and add SATA SSD's or HDD's. And you will get the full speed becaus you probably wont use more than one or two SSD's at a time wich still doesnt saturate the 16x 4.0 link. Sooooooo... I don't understand why you are complaining for your workload. Maybe there are professional workloads like music production or live video ingestion of multiple camera's wich need the full bandwith of multiple 16x links but that's rare. Anyway the 13900K also only has 20 PCIE lanes to the CPU I believe al the rest is done by the pcie switch chipset.

[@cjadams7434]

at that point get a mac studio and use the 3000 for a nas… your better off

[@pvdgucht]

@@cjadams7434 well yeah that’s what I would do. You’ve got the 10 gigabit ethernet soo

[@tapefive]

Thanks for the info! The big question now for deciding between MacPro and MacStudio: - is there more latency when using an external PCI chassis? and which solution is the calmer for a studio environment? (with the MacStudio two units are running and making noise...) Cheers

[@Squilliam-Fancyson]

And kids thats why pros still prefer to go the X86 route. This could have been a much better machine if Apple would have just upgraded the 2019 Mac Pro to Intel Sapphire Rapids platform. That way pro users still could make use of their up to 8000$ mpx moduls while getting the benefit of lots of PCI-e 5.0 lanes instead of this shared Pci-e 4.0 crap from yesterday. Stuck onto their 2019 approach they could have even went that far, releasing full upgrade kits(mainboard, RAM, mounting adapter for CPU cooler) for existing Mac Pro 2019 users. Yeah I know X86 is dead for Apple but on the flip side this also means further limiting the pro users audience.

[@pixelwash9707]

You should of kept the older Mac Pro and upgraded the processor to the 24 or 28 core - it's always good to have a powerful Wintel computer in your studio that you can boot to Windows 10 Pro if you need to, and it could have done that job, as well as being your main editing station for long form processing.

[@MelvinAstrahan-b3f]

the 28 core xeon alone is more than $4000

[@document6]

I think you & Marques make a solid point that this is a stopgap product - Marques compared it to to m1 MacBook Air / 13” MacBook Pro .. same old product before apple rolled out the new one: he said perhaps the real mac pro will come out with the m3

[@Frozoken]

Yeah except one is giving a massive efficiency uplift on a battery, the other IS FROM A DESKTOP WORKSTATION. Just a chip change was enough to warrant a new product on something with a battery, when it's something without one and is done after like 4 years, it is extremley mediocre. The macbook chip change was done way faster and with much more of an actual improvement. They've just put a mobile chip in a fulll sized pc, who wants that? The new xeons would absolutely decimate the m2 ultra (which is the opportunity cost of switching to in house chips) and they retain high ram capacity nor do they have to use the garbage that is lpddr which'll achieve less than half its theoretical bandwith unlike ddr which will achieve 85-95% of it. With how intelligently apple typically operates, this looks real bad from them.

[@AspectStudio]

I feel like they are quite often overpriced but this takes the cake... Can't use graphic's cards, PCI lanes are all shared? So 4 grand extra for what? A giant case and usless PCI lanes only good for storage when that can be done way cheaper anyway? Usless front fans as well. What were these people thinking?

[@LeeBlaske]

A three card xMac Studio/Echo III expansion chassis is $1,549.00, and it's going to be limited by Thunderbolt 3. The Mac Pro also has the space and power supply for two 3.5" drives. Still think that after all is said and done, if you need that expansion, the Mac Pro is a better idea. Definitely, more reliable with fewer possible failure points.

[@maxdezigner]

Pros: That Mac Pro is darn heavy, give a lighter option. Apple: Here you have it. Pros: This is not a computer, it’s a trash can… give us a normal computer. Apple: Here you have it. Pros: Why tha heck do we need all those slots, if you can just buy an external box. Apple: Here you have a small and compact beast computer. It’s your turn, “pros”…

[@aelaan12]

Do you think there will be another "oh, there is one more thing" with the Mac Pro? What if they went the route of a Framework? My other thought is that they really painted themselves in a corner with the architecture of the M series chips and that we will see a deviation from that.

[@bryans8656]

I agree with you guys on this one, I've had the same opinion since I watched WWDC 2003. Apple significantly narrowed the market niche for the Pro with the release of the M2 Studio Ultra, by all reports it's just that good. I've got the base M1 Studio Max and it's a beast, and I can only imagine what the M2 Ultra can do (I certainly won't be buying one to compare, I don't need that much power).

[@gametime2473]

Apple has WEAK GPUs and you can't upgrade anything. Total waste of money. The only Macs worth getting over a PC is the Mac Mini and the Macbook Pro/Air.

[@Greg00020]

get a pci raid card for nvme and do 20gb a second, things like that is the only reason to get one

[@RichardFWDavis-yr2km]

So how many PCIe lanes does the Pro have? 16 with a switch? And do you draw from the same pool to connect external devices that use PCIe lanes?

[@patryce999]

Honestly, I would love to see 2 mods : build a PC inside the Mcprue apollo s 3.0 case for the same price as the Mac Pro And a m1 or m2 mac studio inside a G4 cube case.

[@BinkyTheToaster]

Love the longer outro, guys! Been wanting to hear more of that tune for a while; it's quite soothing and a good aesthetic.

[@johnaistrup9250]

Great vid! I would like to see a Trashcan Mac modded to fit an M series chip! It was a fab looking design but oh so limited, with Intel chips etc. Great work!

[@igmanfermont513]

Every Mac Pro since the trash can release has an issue or another. I am not surprised. This new release makes sense for a small niche, a very small one. I was hoping Apple could innovate by adding Apple GPU silicon on a card, but I knew it was wishful thinking. Unfortunately Apple knows its business, for everything mistake they make, the solution is to buy the next gen model. Not an Apple hater, it's tiring how the company operates.

[@cjadams7434]

Apples new normal… $3 TR for shareholders… the customers… “expensive and disposable” were totally screwed while the shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.. Thats what it’s really about.. they wan’t to kill the mac pro.. and i disagree that you can’t do thunderbolt GPUs anymore so.. your wrong about that.. most people will go with a PC for high end graphics. not a studio… the latest mac pro is totally nerfed and this is just a grift..

[@grizzlypaws461]

I’m saving up for a M3 Mac mini Pro when it comes out next year

[@mr88cet]

I’m not terribly surprised that it’s not really worth the extra cost. I personally will wait for an M3-Ultra-based Mac Studio before I upgrade my desktop machine, because I recently picked up an M2-Max-based MacBook Pro, and even that machine’s performance is just short of 🤯! A desktop machine that’ll probably be twice that performance or more would certainly cover everything I’ll need.

[@Uni564-cd5zs]

What do you do

[@scottwilson4078]

Because Apple restricts what cards you can use, the M2 Mac Pro is a hard sell even for niche pro users, especially in contrast to the Mac Studio. The only entry level / base model Mac that needs a refresh? I am eager to see reduced size Mac Mini - because the current chassis has so much empty space.

[@FourPeaksFilms]

Using the external devices to hold those cards? Get ready for a noisy workspace. You are better off buying a Mac Pro 2019 as cheap as you can get and use it for the external storage device. The fans in most of these external enclosures are nightmares.

[@williameverets2736]

I am a poor retired Jet Engine Machine and to Much for my blood, Me Mac Mini 16gb with 1TB storage.

[@wiggybends3632]

If they made other changes it would be practical - shrink down size, add high end internal speakers to fill extra internal room, ad more rear ports, make the apple silicone board user upgradable, etc the styling is timeless but all that aluminum is not necessary

[@cassmelendez1279]

Spending 8000 on mac pro thats bulsht

[@koszalekopalek9068]

1:38 "future-proofing". I am a bit sarcastic here, but how has future-proofing been on intel Mac Pro? I tend to believe all the future-proofing is just marketing, people usually want to spend money on new technology, new design etc rather than on upgrading old system.

[@BadMannerKorea]

I think “future proofing” is used to mean extending the lifespan of the product. If you max out some of these products you can have a desktop for easily 10 years, depending on the work you’re doing.

[@swankyview]

I just got the M2 Max Mac Studio and made a review. Your channel is the best and helped me to make my decision to get the Mac Studio. I just wish Apple will give us some breathing room on the tech upgrades... the tech is improving way too fast! XD $15K for a Mac Pro is GG...

[@roberthoovan4130]

Do you think they’re gonna update it to the M3?

[@SmartByTravel]

I think they will have PCI upgrade modules designed for different work flows that just aren't ready yet. Could be my pipe dream, but that's my thought.

[@matt_leaf]

I agree about the Trust factor when it comes to the Mac Pro with every version since the trash can becoming abandonware. I wish they would make it more modular, and let customers customise based on the chips and slots they want. I think this will basically stay in the line for a good 5 years unchanged. It may also just stay on the M2 Ultra for some time. I just wish they would use the Mac Pro as a platform to explore creative ideas about what such a computer could be in 2023, but it seems like they don’t have any.

[@fhturner3]

Well said. Yeah, when the *smaller* timeframe without any appreciable revision, improvement, or price drop to the Mac Pro is nearly 4 years (and THAT is after a supposed recommitment to the pro market), I’d say it’s pretty hard to trust that Apple will change their tune and actually care about this market anytime soon. Another problem is value. Apple appears extremely greedy in this segment to me. Whereas the bottom end of the range like the MacBook Air M1 or iPad 9 have been excellent values, the Mac Pro is increasingly the inverse of that. Doesn’t help when they release this obvious Band-aid of a solution and jack the price another 17% on top of the already-poor-value Mac Pro 2019.

[@matt_leaf]

@@fhturner3 I thought the 2019 was actually a good direction, although it was at eye watering prices which drove the whole discussion around “the Mac Pro is for Pros” at the time. And that produced the Mac Studio, a computer that anyone can have at different segments. To be honest, the Mac Studio IS the trash can Mac Pro ie an Apple ITX machine, just in a different form factor. But the Mac Pro itself is a different game, a shot at the Tower form factor PC. But now the interesting things about the 2019 - the afterburner card, MPX modules, all that is gone in favour of an Apple SoC with PCIe slots. To me, Apple has to go all in on the Mac Pro to continue bother producing. Not one foot in, one foot out. Stop positioning the Mac Pro in this upper echelon market segment and be smart about it, offer the case and base SoC and give users tiers they can grow up to. Support it with Apple Card’s that go in those slots, and whatever else they can dream up that would suit such a machine. The Mac Pro should push the future of computing, things that trickle down into the lower lines, and you should be able to buy a base model at a reasonable price, with an M1, M2, M2 Pro, M2 Max, Ultra, whatever you want, 8gb all the way up to 192, with multiple case options. If you want to do the fancy rich one sure, but offer an alternative. It sucks but I just don’t think the vision is there around this machine, and it only exists to drive users to the Mac Studio. Hoping this version is just a stop gap until a v2 that really shakes things up, otherwise yeah I would agree with others, the Mac Pro’s days are numbered.

[@ARandomKid-v4m]

Didn’t you think twice before buying it

[@debugin1227]

My 2009 still works great only hobbled by software obsolesence.

[@tonytech5520]

And by slow ports (usb 2, firewire), slow PCI, and slow SATA interface. I know, I have one of those, and I love it.

[@parjau4554]

Clearly, Apple tried desperately to get the 'Extreme' chip right, couldn't, gave up, and now just released this to to complete the transition. M-series chips are all-in chips which are great for smaller systems but seems to me that they are going to have to stray slightly from the strict unified M-series architecture if they are going to have a serious Mac Pro with the customisability that Professionals need.

[@axe863]

How hard is it to implement a tiered hybrid RAM system.

[@ronevry2664]

Just noticed what appears to be a movie projector here (around 6:24) that seems to be similar to my 1940s Revere 16 mm machine. That machine has amazingly no jitters at all while playing reels, but sadly, has a sound coil that totally blows up any speaker hooked up.Always looking for a replacement coil. If you know of anything like that please let me know. Like your videos (BTW, still quite happy with my 5,1 intel Mac Pro).

[@edurodriguez4278]

Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave by now

[@wiggybends3632]

The internal fans are also overkill and can be scaled down for smaller form factor case

[@paulspatafora8793]

I love the design of that cheese grater case! Do you think Apple will sell it to PC builders for $300? Can I stuff my Threadripper system in it?

[@GoFastJames]

For the most part seems the main 2 things that helps make the Mac Pro make sense are just 2 cards, ultra high speed net working card and the crazy high speed storage cards. What about drivers for any card? Way Im looking at this unless you need the 2 cards I was talking about or some odd one but you have to rack mount it, you could fit many mac studios in the same rack space as a mac pro.

[@GreatOne0815]

I think ditching X86 was a mistake. At least for the Mac Pro. Current AMD and Intel CPUs can now compete with "Apple Silicon" and it could have made the Mac Pro much more useful. OR they had to implement options for RAM and GPU expansion.

[@FBL9982]

compete now? are you serious? Apple's tablet chip has never been able to compete especially now that Intel and AMD have increased their performance tenfold, there is already an abyss with normal CPUs let alone server CPUs, a tablet chip remains a tablet chip

[@FBL9982]

in order not to inconvenience the dedicated GPUs above all

[@GreatOne0815]

@@FBL9982 When the M1 chip was releases we only had intel 10th gen chips and Ryzen 5000 and don't forget the efficiency.

[@null-nl5su]

@@FBL9982 Tenfold?! What are you smoking?

[@orangeofmars2835]

The Mac Pro is a curious choice for Apple compared to other choices they are making. I would surely expect this to be the last Mac Pro ever made. Obviously, people like me who will likely go to the Mac Studio M2 Max (a lot for size and space) are not the market for a Mac Pro. I wonder what people getting the Mac Pro would be getting it for (other than the very small percentage that simply need the extra slots-a situation that many just get add on devices for). If I was in the situation where I needed a lot of slots I would just make my own PC.

[@ryanburr8146]

Will a Mac Studio power the 5k monitor that’s meant for the pro?

[@computerenthusiast402]

So what version of the Mac Studio is the Best Value deal for content creators ?

[@pauljazzman408]

Such a disappointment with the Mac Pro. Bit of a shocker with the pcie slots sharing bandwidth. Strange that Apple produced two top end macs only one of which is any good. Namely the Studio Mac with M2 Ultra. Is it just a sort of ‘place holder’ to be replaced by something much better. But that doesn’t help you if you buy one.

[@O530CarrisPT_C2]

Ditching the x86 CPUs for Mac Pro was a mistake. The implementation of the Silicon ARM CPUs on Mac Pro was botched. It was to say that the transition from Intel CPUs was complete, while screwing up pro users in the process.

[@SilentShadow-ss5xp]

I don't see the point of this. If you could put any GPU in those PCIe slots and they would work I think its not bad but since you can't this entire computer makes no sense. They didn't even give us a better chip.

[@Thatsmantas]

you can get OWC Accelsior PCIe + 64TB nvme storage.

[@chrisproductions6262]

To see the Mac mini with the M4 Pro chip outmatch this just shows that Apple really wants to go smaller, not bigger

[@StrongFrontTV]

Thank you for the info, they talk about the Mac Studio as a replacement but that isn't an option for me, it is more like a 2013 Mac Pro. The thing I don't like about the Thunderbolt external enclosures is the bandwidth limitations, I will stick with my 7,1 and keep beefing it up over time.

[@CMRock-xx8wx]

Max if you are going to comment on the "poor speeds" on the Mac Pro perhaps showing real world testing that denotes actual results, rather than pointing at a tweet regarding Apple making use of a PCIe switch, which is something PC motherboard manufacturers have done for years.

[@RedVRCC]

It's still a trash can like the cylinder one. Trash cans come in rectangular shapes too.

[@mrnonel]

Can you please make a video comparing Mac Pro vs Mac Studio Ultra that has been spec up to price of the Mac Pro?

[@rzandel]

For $7,599 you could get an M2 Ultra Mac Studio unbinned with 192GB unified memory and 4 TB of internal storage, which is a way better deal, esp. if you need that ridiculous amount of memory. $8k for a similarly spec'd Mac Pro that has limited bandwidth in the PCIe slots just isn't worth it. Definitely return it for a Studio.

[@PatrickDSimpson]

Which external enclosure for cards do you show at 5:02?

[@Justin_Allen]

The only way this makes sense is if Apple and Nvidia make up. Then you have a virtual production machine that can take on the PC versions.

[@null-nl5su]

Then it'll still be much worse than PC workstations. M2 Ultra only has 24 PCIe 4.0 lanes, Xeons have 80 and AMD Epyc 128, both PCIe 5.0, M2 Ultra only has 192 GB of non-ECC RAM, a Xeon can have up to 4 TB of upgradable ECC RAM and an Epyc up to 6 TB, Xeon can have up to 60 cores, Epyc up to 96, they absolutely destroy the M2 Ultra even without considering the GPU performance, and with 80 lanes you can add 4 PCIe 5.0 or 8 PCIe 4.0 GPUs when using PCIe switches, and still have 16 lanes left for high-speed peripherals and storage, with the 128 lanes of the AMD Epyc you can increase the number of GPUs to 7 or 14 and every one of them will still have full bandwidth, but even one RTX 4090 or RX 7900 XTX destroys the M2 Ultra GPU, the only advantage of the M2 Ultra is the shared memory and video codecs.

[@Justin_Allen]

@@null-nl5su Thanks for breaking that down.

[@RichardFWDavis-yr2km]

@@null-nl5su can you say how you know that the ultra has 24 lanes? It’s not that I disbelieve you - it’s that I have not been able to verify this for myself. Couldn’t get the local Apple Store to let me put a card or three in so I could use the Expansion Slot utility to extrapolate.

[@null-nl5su]

@@RichardFWDavis-yr2km I know it from this post by Hector Martin, the lead developer of Asahi Linux: social . treehouse . systems / @ marcan / 110493886026958843 . He got this information from the device tree, which you can extract from a macOS IPSW. I have checked the device tree and it confirms his post. 8x lanes on die 0 + 16x lanes on die 1 = 24 lanes in total, 8 are used for the top slot and the other 16 go to the PCIe switch which serves all the other slots, 3 x8 slots + 2 x16 slots = 56 lanes switched into 16, a big bottleneck. If the other 8 lanes on the first die are used for the SSDs then the peripherals and I/O card also share bandwidth with the top slot.

[@XxEmulatingKing]

Imo you can spec out the Mac Pro and the Mac Studio and you'll get the EXACT same specs... but the mac studio is cheaper and more compact. (in other words if your gonna buy a mac pro just get the mac studio)

[@dynahzm]

the mac studio is the revival of the 2013 mac pro

[@AnthonyMichaelSneed]

Which PCIe enclosure is that??

[@Sgten01]

Are you guys able to do a gaming review of M2 Pro, Max and Ultra? I do work but like to see if it's worth spending more on a more powerful version if it can play World of Warcraft like a PC can.

[@johncho8766]

They have High Power mode for the 16" MacBook Pros, supplying more power, higher fans for more performance. Why not for the Mac Pro? With a 1280w power supply, there's no limitation there. And with a case that big, they could have made it like the Studio: half of it dedicated to cooling. Imagine an M2 Ultra running at 4-5 GHz? Now that would have made the Pro worth it.

[@sebulban]

That might change when sonoma comes out

[@mendodsoregonbackroads6632]

Well, it certainly looks nice, and I think some of that design language implemented in the Studio would be awesome. If they made the Ultra a little bigger with said design language and a couple of PCI slots it could be the next Mac Pro.

[@denden4387]

TOTAL LETDOWN!!!!

[@movieking1997]

Would love to see a comparison between this M2 ultra Mac Pro and the 76 core, 192gb Ram M2 ultra Mac Studio... Love your videos man 💕

[@utubekullanicisi]

Apple needs to make a separate Mac Pro chip or chip lineup that supports dedicated GPUs (a dGPU in computer terminology means a GPU that doesn't share memory with the rest of the system and has its own memory), or bake that functionality into the M Ultra and above (if they decide to make any chip above M Ultra) lineup. A 4-die SoC that has 4 M Max-class dies would have 60 lanes of whatever gen PCIe they will have by then available to the PCIe slots (apart from all of the other lanes available to the ports) (current M2 Ultra has 28, 4x to the port that houses the Apple I/O card and 8x to slot 6 with die 0, and 16x available to all the other slots with die 1. 2 more M Max dies would give them 32 more, enabling them to have 2 MPX modules that will have 24 lanes going through them thanks to the 16x PCIe port and the MPX port that carries 8 extra lanes to the module to support PCIe tunneling for the 4 Thunderbolt ports on the MPX modules (though now that they have a less bandwidth sharing design approach when it comes to their ports, they might want to get 16 extra lanes to the 4 ports so each can have 4 lanes as opposed to the days of the Intel era where only 2 of the 4 ports would be able to run at full speed at the same time).

[@Coolcmsc]

Well, sounds very fast, but it doesn’t need to do that because their customers don’t need that. If they really do, there are better options out there which are less well known on consumer forums like this. For example, look no further than the daisy chain system for Studios. They’d be crazy now they’ve got this far with the M series to develop a further dedicated chip for a ‘Pro’ series. Maybe you mean holding the latest fast M3 for Pro and then holding the M4 when it’s time to put the M3 in the Studio and so on, incrementally. But what’s with the giant box if that’s your suggestion?

[@null-nl5su]

The dGPU support is most likely a software limitation, there is nothing in the chip that stops dGPUs from being used, unified memory is also not a reason for that because unified memory is also used in CPUs with an iGPU and you very much can use dGPUs with such CPUs.

[@utubekullanicisi]

@@null-nl5su The person that's porting Linux over to Apple Silicon Macs, Hector Martin, said that at least for M1 Macs, the PCIe controller doesn't support dedicated GPUs with their own memory pool. This could've changed with the M2, however, one of the things Martin said he'll be investigating is whether the 2023 Mac Pro could support dedicated GPUs under Linux.

[@null-nl5su]

A 4-die SoC would have 64 lanes. No one makes PCIe controllers with an odd number of lanes. M2 Max has 16 lanes, M2 Ultra has 32 not 28. 8x going to the top slot, 16x going to the PCIe switch for all the other slots as you said. The 8 remaining lanes are used for the Ethernet controllers, WiFi and Bluetooth module and USB controller for the internal USB port, 1 lane each, 2 lanes for the SATA controller and 2 going to the x4 physical slot which has an ASM3142 USB controller which uses 2 lanes. I don't think they'll support dGPUs or bring back MPX modules because it doesn't make sense to have 2 or 4 dies with very powerful GPUs and just throw that away and use a dGPU instead, also it'll be even more expensive.

[@utubekullanicisi]

@@null-nl5su I didn't say it wouldn't have 64 lanes, I said it would have 60 lanes available to the PCIe ports. The 4 remaining lanes go to the dual 10Gb Ethernet ports, WiFi and Bluetooth. As I said, on die 0 4x goes to the port that houses the Apple I/O card, 8x to slot 6, and the remaining 4x is for wireless and Ethernet. Though the port that has the I/O card is electronically PCIe gen 3, for some reason.

[@Tvj_films8452]

Wish he show the link for that black box enclosure

[@AldrichQuaiHoi]

hmmm . . . so OPCLP can get not supported Nvidia cards working . . so its only a matter of time hopefully that some drivers are written to take advantage of those PCI slots . . . hopefully

[@rickkarrer8370]

I still prefer expansion lots over the Studio I have now. I just wish it wasn’t so much more, and the PCIe bandwidth is disappointing.

[@stevenau2310]

I have a doubt on Apple who is making a big mistake for creating Mac Pro with M2 chip... There is no point to have this configuration when Mac Studio can provide the performance but less money for what we paid...

[@badfactor83]

they should include a second m2 ultra onto that mainboard..... i mean there is space. for the same price

[@gr93cjs]

Mac mini m2 pro and Max Studio are just enough for A LOT of people who need a "professional" apple machine to work

[@dreamcaptureweddingfilms]

I think it may be good to point out that any system only works as fast as its slowest component

[@CaptainTae]

If you send it to me I will happily pay for shipping.

[@BolianAdmiral]

I love Apple, they’re so generous they give me a keyboard and mouse when I spend $8000. That’s quality. They love their customers.

[@davidjones5547]

To quote WC Fields, " There is a sucker born every day."

[@TheanHooYew]

I have four Macs but my last purchase was a Windows PC as Apple's prices are getting ridiculous.

[@christopherdavis9137]

Anyone do any videos reviewing one with cards they put in? mKbD showed he was putting in storage card , but didn’t talk about how it worked with it

[@frazerweb]

Be nice if there was a few pci expansion slots in a mac studio for nvme storage and additional ram. We can live in hope.

[@RichardFWDavis-yr2km]

That is literally what the Mac Pro is.

[@pensforgts]

You set an exorbitantly high price for a product that performs similarly to your outrageously priced alternative, which is half the price. Then, you proceed to justify the high price of the former by comparing it only to your own overpriced product. It's a clever strategy, as it eliminates the competition by setting the benchmarks solely against your own offering. Max understands this game well, as he serves as the voice behind this strategy

[@cjadams7434]

its all just laptop motherboards keep that in mind.. guys.. its all just one size fits all rake in the $$ now.. the creative apple has been replaced by a bean counter .. i really miss steve!

[@gabrielegelfofx]

Tim Cook must be fired from Apple.

[@spetz911]

You know how they call people who are making the same error again and again…

[@ResizeFilms]

Waiting for the next gen iMac Pro.

[@darkroom8317]

Ah, the G4 Cube… after all these years I still want one!

[@Ghost_moto_WPN]

I priced one of these max’d out here in AUS - 20 grand, yeah thats right $20,000. umm, geeeett faaaaaaarked.

[@pdahandyman]

The only thing I can think of is that they are planning on rolling out component upgrades and their own proprietary major components, i.e., RAM, storage, etc... Then, they murder PCI with their own backplane. If they aren't doing something like that, then it's just bonkers waste. $3k in 4 years on the used market? Dunno. Maybe?

[@BubbaSatori]

Tim Apple trolling the Sheeple. $3K for some PCI slots. 😂

[@luqmanproadminvip136]

Hopefully, the next iteration, will have full speed PCI bus for all slots and the motherboard is moved to one of the PCI card.. That way, CPU can be replaced when ever new CPU available... Or better yet, Mac OS can be made to utilise multiple PCI Express motherboard (CPUs)... Not sure this make sense...