2023 Subaru BRZ vs. Toyota GR86; All-Weather vs. Snow Tires | Talking Cars

[@stevenf927]

BRZ vs GR86: The choice might get down to which dealership you have to work with.

[@jameswillard1]

That’s what it came down to with me. Toyota dealer absolutely sucked, Subaru dealer was very decent to deal with

[@drapisking]

That's exactly how I ordered the BRZ... Subaru would sell it at MSRP

[@sshah2545]

Both absolutely suck where I am. I just bought the subaru, the dealer experience be damned. Another subaru dealer I went to wanted me to buy the car before test driving it. After some counter argument, they said put down a deposit and then you can go for a drive. And in the process of taking my deposit, they literally tried to make me sign a bill of sale, BEFORE TEST DRIVING THE VEHICLE, which wasn't even allowed without a $1000 desposit. Absolute Scum

[@shakethedrummer2351]

Agreed. I got the subaru. Dealer gave $500 discount. Ordered october 2022. Arrived april 2023 Toyota gr86 ordered September 2021 By april 2023 still no ETA

[@TriMLS]

With Toyota every color is a "special color" adding another $400+ onto the price.

[@justinbecker4772]

10:45 - the flat engine itself doesn't cause the distinctive "boxer" note. That was a result of the unequal length headers installed on the old Subaru engine platform, the EJ. This car has the FA platform engine, which has equal length headers. When you put an exhaust on (and I have), the typical Subaru rumble doesn't exist, because the exhaust pulses are equally spaced.

[@Tonga2]

Our 2022 BRZ is so comfortable, no need to get out every 2 hours like our past 3 Miatas.

[@djw5415]

Just curious, what gen did you last own?

[@k-van9570]

Did you try out the GR86 before you decided for the BRZ? And if so was it a big difference in ride comfort between them?

[@entropy3301]

@@k-van9570 I've read that the GR86 has stiffer suspension than the BRZ. In addition, the GR86 is easier to slide out, whereas the BRZ remains more predictable until it washes out.

[@tone3560]

There is no damn difference to the average consumer. The only people that will tell you a difference is people that have driven both back to back which eliminates 99.99% of people. Dont let people sway you either way go with what looks or brand bias you want.@@k-van9570

[@Teutoburg09]

I was actually trying to decide between the BRZ and Miata, and have been wondering about the ride quality of the Miata on longer drives, especially on the highway. Thanks for letting us know. I'm leaning toward the BRZ because of this.

[@rightlanehog3151]

Paul newly in Vermont, Have you considered how much extra gas you will burn in Spring/Summer/Fall with all that extra tread on your All-Weather tires? What about the extra noise generated by those clumsy compromise tires? Take it from a Canadian, get a set of REAL Winter tires mounted on cheap steel rims for Winter use and use All Seasons on alloys the rest of the year. One more thing, you will want to add as much sidewall as possible to cushion those Vermont potholes so downsize those winter rims😉

[@perrybenedict5983]

If you came here wondering if you should get all weather tires for Vermont in the winter for your GR86 I can tell you unequivocally the answer is NO. Perhaps on a Camry they get close to the same ratings as the dedicated winters, but the GR86 is Rear Wheel Drive (not 2 wheel drive like these crazy hacks keep calling it) and you can easily end up in a ditch, even on the Michelin X-Ices which were the top rated winter tires when I purchased them. Dont skimp on tires you use to drive through the snow (even if it is only a couple miles on a paved road), especially if you live somewhere as hilly as Vermont. I drove with X-Ices on my 22 GR86 all last winter in New York, and simply couldn't imagine getting up half the hills in my town with any less traction, and at least 25 pounds of sand in the trunk. I made it through that winter without incident on the X-Ices but had enough close calls that switching to an All-Weather sounds like a death wish, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed running doordash orders a snowstorm in his 19' Corolla with same Michelin X-ice tires, just a size smaller. Personally Im considering Blizzaks for the next snow season because I was a little disappointed with the snap oversteer on the X-Ices, particularly on hills, and have heard the blizzaks are a bit grippier in snow. I will say the X-ices are very good in the slush and ice, but theyre so iffy in the powder which is usually where the 86 tends to struggle most. I will most definitely not be considering all weathers, even if consumer reports says there just as good on a camry, and if you own a GR86 as well, I highly encourage you to take this review with a HUGE grain of salt.

[@ruturaj47]

While I completely agree with you on putting proper winter tires on, BRZ/GR86 are 2 wheel drive as 2 wheels get power. Camry is also 2 wheel drive but further can be differentiated as front wheel drive and twins are rear wheel drive.

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

I think it's worth noting that for many of us who more frequently drive in wet and/or slushy conditions during the winter, that All-Weather tires can perform better in those conditions than a pure winter tire. I love my Vredenstein Quatracs in the rain, a condition that a pure winter tire can sometimes do less well.

[@ruturaj47]

You can also go with high performance winter tires, but very few choices in it. I have same brand tires as yours.

[@bearclaw5115]

Rain, I don't think is a huge concern. Very few tires perform so poorly in the wet as to be a concern. And most winter tires are going to outperform an all-weather tire in slush. All winter tires are driven through slush at some point so it's baked into the designs.

[@prospect2664]

usually after slush and nights, it will be ice and for that studded will be better, which is why you have summer tires and studded tires for winter

[@imanenigma3348]

I have only 500kms on my top spec BRZ manual (S spec) here in Australia. I love it, yes the clutch takes some getting use to but the firm handling , looks and general ethos behind the car, is what I was after. We get a full size spare here and only the 18 inch Pilot sport tyre on both models. The spare does take up a lot of room, but I'm happy to have it and the girl and I are in our sixties so we don't need a people mover, just room for us and some overnight bags on the folded rear seat if needed. It takes some thought to the getting in and out aspect of the car, after having vehicles we oldies can just, fall out of, but it is worth it. Looking forward to get the running in period over to stretch those little boxer legs every now and then. Stunning looking little car, with more than enough go that is allowable these days. As an example, according to old road tests I have of our late 60's and 70's "Muscle cars" which are worth a fortune these days, the BRZ will beat most, match some of them all over the standing quarter(400m) and 0- 60(100kmh) times. I realise modern performance cars and your American muscle era out performs ours, but it puts the BRZ's performance in perspective I believe.

[@LionRunner]

More than the track focused specs I would take the Subaru BRZ and go to Subaru dealership as think they would know to work on it better than taking it to a Toyota dealership. I'm pretty sure Subaru dealership have more parts available as I think they have more shared parts with other vehicles FA24 series. Not denying any part not available in stock at Toyota dealership one can order and get it delivered or go to a Subaru dealer and get it.

[@mariusdoiron9066]

Living in Quebec i always go for a balance tire that's not the best in one weather condition but better than average in every one. You leave in the morning with snow , have wet road in the afternoon and icy road at night.

[@rightlanehog3151]

Living in Ontario, I just use Michelin X-Ice in the winter.

[@dearbulls]

I like it when you talk about the technical difference and please do it more. I only know the front control arms on GR86 is steel vs. aluminum on BRZ. I've heard a saying that BRZ is more stable and gr86 is more prone to drift, sometimes too much even unnecessary drifting. The tester said that BRZ would be the 30k car that Porsche would build (if they ever wanted). And the GR86 is just a drifting machine. Would you agree?

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

I don't think any "CarTuber" has done this comparison yet, but I'd love to see a lap time comparison between the GR86 and BRZ. From what I hear, the GR86 gets kudos for being more "tail happy" and fun to fling around a track, but that doesn't necessarily make for quicker lap times!

[@perrybenedict5983]

Well no one has too because youve nailed it! Other than a slightly different front bumper, thats pretty much the extent of the differences.

[@johnjfrederick]

A few places like Car and Driver and some Japanese pubs did lap them against each other and GR86 is typically slightly quicker, but only slightly.

[@renzorevilla1210]

Here are 2 videos that compare GR86 vs. BRZ, the one with Keiichi Tsuchiya has the lap times if I remember correctly: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2iQnZKpjL6qrcU kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6vUqouAd9VoaLs

[@zinny999]

@@johnjfrederick yup it's been done and GR86 is ahead, but like less than 0.01 of a second or slightly more. Due to having sriffer front end and slightly higher spring rates. So BRZ would be more comfy over pothole and bumps... however giving away less grip around the corners. However GR8G would have slightly harsher ride but slightly faster over the corners.

[@edlawrence6553]

After four minutes of “they’re the same but similar,” one of them says, “I would argue they’re pretty much the same-but they have some similarities.” (Groan)

[@bearclaw5115]

In a snow prone area, 100% use dedicated winter tires. It makes 2wd much more viable and safer. Also, you get to run real performance tires in the summer, a win-win!

[@jimiverson3085]

Toyota put more roll stiffness at the rear of the GR86 - stiffer rear bar and springs. That increases any tendency for oversteer, but it's also a cheap change in the aftermarket with sway bars or springs to take either car in a different direction. Regarding the interior, I much prefer dials and switches for the comfort features. A touchpad requires taking your eyes off the road to make adjustments, which is really inconvenient.

[@denisleblanc4506]

I only have experience with one all weather tire and it does not come close to my dedicated snow tire. I still feel that winter tires are always the best choice. Specially for a new winter driver. Also he should note that yes you can probably get by with an all weather tire but in any emergency manoeuvre you will always appreciate the best traction you can get. I also find that modern ABS and stability controls always work much better with the better tires.

[@ruturaj47]

Really comes down to tires in sub segment. All season tires that has 3 mountain peak symbol outperforms even sime cheap winter tires in snow. Pure snow tire doesn't perform so well in wet and cold, how roads are but have better traction in icy situations. Then there are high performance winter tires that trade some snow traction for much more cold wet traction. And as always winter tires don't perform so well in summer when all season can be had year around.

[@rightlanehog3151]

C'est vrai

[@Tonga2]

Exhaust sound- Equal length headers on the new BRZ/GR86 are not like the older engines that used un-equal length headers?

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

You are correct. The classic Subaru rumble came/comes from different length headers. And the new engines use equal length pipes so no sonic dissonance creating that rumble.

[@ruturaj47]

I was able to get BRZ at invoice and Toyota dealers were asking minimum 3k markup for GR86. I can install aftermarket sways and coilovers with the difference and make car handle much better than stock, and still have some money left from the difference I would have paid.

[@jameswillard1]

Invoice? That’s amazing

[@451jbelen]

Love the center console controls and there's no obnoxious screen in the middle of the way of sight.

[@denisleblanc4506]

Just thought I'd mention the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe.

[@rightlanehog3151]

Tres bien.

[@TK-cl1jm]

Why? Might as well mention a Prius while you're at it.

[@user-om3vg2uk7v]

Toyota (& Subaru - Toyota owes Subaru) hit the nail on the head with perfect advertising / selling - there are non-stop discussions/comparations about GR86-BRZ = free advertisements for Toyota/Subaru. These are two IDENTICAL cars made on one production line. Are there some minor differences? Absolutely, YES. Are there some differences between MY BRZ tS and OEM BRZ tS? Absolutely, YES (I already made many changes). To conclude, comparing any tuned (by owner) BRZ & GR86 - there NO two identical ones. Finally, you made a point for yourselves with your video as well - you made $$$ on KZbin.

[@MR3DDev]

I would never understand the "manual is more fun to drive" they are if there was no traffic. I got mine auto cause is my daily. I am comfortable on commute and I get to have fun on weekends when streets are clear.

[@kevincrockett5155]

Neither is fun in traffic.

[@diallo1347]

For some of us who like rowing gears, traffic isn't any more or less fun than automatic, but when you want to have fun it is way more fun than automatic. To each their own, but manual until my knees give out.

[@stevebier8291]

The GR86 report is *not* up, CR. You only have the "first impressions" posted.

[@squareenixffost]

You can add the wing to the brz is not that hard and same wing. The brz is softer for daily and comfortable. 1kg does make big differences in suspension

[@SamuelRQ]

Awesome car, so happy with my BRZ

[@Teutoburg09]

I prefer the look of the BRZ. It's a little more understated and sophisticated looking. I think the GR86 looks like it is designed to appeal to a younger demographic who is into modding and racing. I'm looking for a fun sports car for my daily commute to work. And the stiffer feel on the GR86 doesn't seem to produce noticeably better results in handling, so there's no drawback to the more comfortable ride of the BRZ.

[@J.R.F.23]

For the 2024 versions: The safety features, including the automatic breaking are standard with both the automatic and manual versions. I personally chose the BRZ over the GR86, because the motor is a Subaru FA24 Boxer Motor. Should anything go wrong with the engine, I would rather have a Subaru Mechanic work on it over a Toyota mechanic. Another reason I chose the BRZ over the GR86 is because the Toyota dealers wanted $1500 over sticker; while the Subaru dealers were willing to sell if for MSRP without any markups.

[@tituschow]

Liking the in person show vs over zoom

[@moldyrefrigerator]

I just got my 2023 BRZ on Saturday, and it didn't last a full week before I ordered the GR86 duckbill spoiler lmao. It really does complete the look!

[@digitalsmithy]

it came color matched?

[@ak2112]

BRZ does not ride harsh and the clutch pickup is right at the top, not the bottom of the pedal. Weird.

[@ItsAlive111]

I’m surprised Miata was not mentioned once 😅

[@Buc_Stops_Here]

Every review I have seen on these two cars is exactly as they said - Subaru rides slightly better, Toyota performs slightly better - but you cannot go wrong with either. You get in every car the Subaru engine, and Toyota transmissions. Electronics are Subaru, design is Subaru. Still, this is more a joint venture that the Toyota Supra/BMW which is pretty much BMW giving a car to Toyota to sell. Toyota wanted the sports car, Subaru was hesitant. In their partnership, Toyota said build and pull any parts you need from us and we will support you by selling it as well to make it a valid option. It has worked as the sales volumes, although not great, sell enough to keep selling it with both companies. I have used all weather tires in CT for years, and they are fine. Michelin and Firestone and I live on a mountain - the traction is good enough in 6 inches of snow or ice climbing the mountain (clearance the car has).

[@ManuNarang]

Any updates on the 86 RTV recalls?

[@BlackNAVYAmericanVET]

Fix the gasket issues in production ❤

[@alexandram9477]

BRZ=grip biased GR86=drift biased, the suspension tuning/components for both are performance driven in design, one has overall better grip, the other is oversteer biased. The BRZ is certainly not a soft car, I think these differences are being blown way out of proportion. A better review of the differences is by Dan Edmunds, I'd suggest taking a look at his video for more in depth info and impressions .

[@Themis187]

few people know that Subaru has an aluminum roof and Toyota doesn't, but there are many more differences, the Japanese show the differences, and on the track Subaru wins

[@NateTheDragonoidAlicorn]

What about the 2023 Scion FRS?

[@BlackNAVYAmericanVET]

The MX5 GT is softer on the road .

[@atmartens]

It’s so odd to me that the Subaru looks more like the Toyota Supra than the Toyota version. Also, this is petty, but I’d buy the Subaru. Toyota has changed the name on this so much I can’t even keep up anymore. Starting with it being a Scion.

[@hereigoagain5050]

Saturday pancakes or waffles? Good for Toyota & Subaru for keeping it going. Any opinions about these vs Mustang Ecoboost (I4 turbo)?

[@mostcertainlyno]

Never get a non V8 Mustang because you’ll inevitably line up next to one at a stoplight while in your Ecoboost. I don’t think they’re comparable, though. The Mustang vs the BRZ. Drive both back to back and you’ll make a clear headed decision afterwards.

[@shakethedrummer2351]

In Australia the Ecoboost is almost $16k more than BRZ... Otherwise i may have considered it

[@limitededition3278]

GR86 hands down

[@risby1930]

Have you dropped the oil pan to see how much RTV is in the oil pickup? Toyota doesn't make a rear drive sports car, they get them from BMW and Subaru.

[@thomasyung9162]

Anyone else find the Um's and Ah's in this video excessive to the point of annoying?

[@goostrey4210]

Thank goodness for the tire question. The Subaru vs Toyota discussion was eye-glazingly pointless, as no one buys cars like these any more and, anyway, these cars are identical for all purposes.

[@steveh504]

Couldn't disagree with this more. This is great information for those of us who love sports cars, own such a car, and love driving...but can't afford the expensive stuff. Kudos to Subaru and Toyota for continuing to make cars like these for those of us who live in an area where we can enjoy driving them and are underwhelmed & put off by the typical SUV.

[@SamuelRQ]

I bought one and love it !

[@hagenherrmann8204]

I want to buy one but have been waiting since placing my order in February. The supply cant keep up with demand. not sure where you're getting your info from.

[@edlawrence6553]

After four minutes, they finally got into some specifics. And then said things like the handling in one was more compliant. What the…? I’m not a race car driver. My father did not teach me those terms. I assert most CR readers and followers are not car enthusiasts. CR--Know thy audience. This is not Motortrend, Car & Driver or Road & Track. While most people generally like cars, I bet most of CR’s audience want general car info to help them make a general purchasing decision. I will add how i loved the Tire question and their answers.

[@rhodycars6058]

Bought a 2023 GR86

[@TheWineroute]

CR pushing climate destroying vehicles. SMH

[@ms-jl6dl]

Try some other channel.Maybe Disney?

[@mostcertainlyno]

Are you serious?