2023: The Year The Classical Recording Industry Became A Charity

[@saginawdavis]

As someone born a couple decades after the start of Mehta's Decca/LA recordings, this paragraph from the liner notes to the 2020 Mehta/LA box is mindblowing. Classical music was LUCRATIVE back in the day if Decca was willing to go to such intense lengths to make those recordings. "The recording crew arrived from London. With them were 56 crates weighing more than two-and-a-half tonnes. Culshaw and his engineers Gordon Parry and James Lock announced that the recording sessions would be held in the UCLA’s Royce Hall. A whole new stage platform had to be built, strong enough for the musicians, their instruments and the microphones. All very well, except that the entire set-up had to be dismantled regularly between sessions because the hall had been booked for lectures and for performances by the American Ballet Theater. The sessions themselves were extensive. Starting with Pictures at an Exhibition, they included Stravinsky’s Petrushka, Tchaikovsky’s Fourth Symphony, and music by Schönberg and Scriabin - all recorded over five days."

[@michaelhoppe8367]

Happy New Year, Dave! Thanks again for another informative video, and for all the videos you have made over the years. BTW in regards to this video’s topic, I was invited in 1969 by DG to be a management trainee for the label. The first thing they informed me when I arrived in Hamburg (DG’s Head Office) was Classical music did not make money and that I should really work in the Pop Department to understand the record business better. (Finally I never did work for DG and eventually ran A&R for Pop.) And this reality about Classical music was already there back in 1969…

[@WesSmith-m6i]

Happy New Year, Dave. I can truly say that finding your channel earlier this year is one of the highlights for me of 2023. Thank you so much for your insights, wisdom and humor.

[@crosebore3781]

Learned a lot from this channel. Not in sync with all your rankings, but boy did it broaden my horizons in the classical space. HNY!

[@1972Diogenes]

Happy new year and thank you for another year of both very insightful and most entertaining videos.

[@Aussiemarco]

At least the “Chateau de Versailles” label is still bringing out new recordings on physical media of French baroque works. I have quite a few and they’re stunning recordings, many recorded in the opera theatre in Versailles, which has magnificent acoustics. I’m looking forward to buying the new recording of Lully’s Atys conducted by Christophe Rousset they are releasing in a few weeks. Interestingly, the back covers of their CD sets list all the organisations that support them and who have obviously contributed to the cost of producing these release. So classical music definitely needs financial support to keep going. Incidentally, I was amazed at some of the music stores that still operate in Paris when I was there last year. There’s a huge store in the Sorbonne that has an entire floor of classical CDs and boxed sets at reduced prices. I was in Heaven!!! I haven’t seen anything like that in almost 20 years.

[@danielo.masson353]

From this informative and lucid video if any, I understand that issues in quality often noticed by critics among mostly 'recent' recordings will no longer depend on the management of long-lasting recording labels catering for a well or badly thought catalogue but on the undiscerning platforms that will take their place and harbour tons of outpouring artistic projects, made available to our home systems. The more competent critics will be needed then (or you will have to multiply hands and ears like some oriental titan) to guide us. Thanks a lot again for the pertinence and coherence that you bring and happy New Year to you too.

[@kostastopouzis7479]

Happy New Year, Dave. Great video. I wonder how composers and music writers in general are supposed to survive now. And most people don't even pay for the recording any way. It can be usually found for free on KZbin, Spotify, or any other platform, if you are willing to tolerate the ads. I mean, you recently made a video on Monteverdi's Brilliant Classics Box Set. The label has the whole box for free on KZbin. I don't understant. The way human psychology works, very few people are going to ever buy it. Why would you give it for free, if you expect people to buy? And the same thing happens with pop records. I guess I cannot understand anything.

[@charlescoleman5509]

Great talk as always, Dave. As far as your last statement about our no longer having classical executives with a vision these days: Frank Zappa used to say that we were better off with having people in that position who were ignorant and took a chance on groups without thinking about it. I don’t know where I stand on that. But to me, it’s food for thought. HappiER New Year!

[@silvershield2342]

Well, what a video to end the year. After viewing I feel I should resign from all this so I altered my resolution list to include acquiring a taste for hip hop, rap, trap and other contemporary noise. Anyway, Happy New Year to all!

[@melissaking6019]

Happy New Year, Dave! One of the highlights of my past year has been finding and enjoying your wonderful, informative, insightful, and very entertaining videos. At some point in all your videos you make me laugh for which I'm immensely grateful. A thousand thanks for your superb work!

[@Jeff-wb3hh]

I only buy digital downloads if the recording is not available on new or used CD or SACD multi-channel surround discs. Then I create a CD or DVD-Audio multi-channel of the download on my computer and print out the booklet. What a pain. So far, I have only bought 4 digital downloads ever. If BIS and/or Hyperion are only available via a download only, I'll no longer be buying their releases. However, I will continue to buy used SACDs and CDs from BIS and Hyperion.

[@dmntuba]

Happy New Year, Dave!!! All the very best & ready for 2024 videos 👍 Keep On Listening!!!!!

[@scottgilesmusic]

It used to be that classical and jazz were long-term profits. Karajan's Beethoven 5th might not sell much that week...but by the end of the year every unit will be sold. The new release by a pop singer may sell big time its first week...or not at all. Pop, rock and, to a lesser degree, rap have to sell right away or not at all. Short-term profit. Big pay-out but big risk. It was the combination of long-term and short-term that was a winning combination for the record industry. Till the 90s. Then, the short-term model became, pretty much, the only strategy with obvious results. This is what happens to industries run by people who don't know that particular industry. And now (like so many other things) the problem is compounded by the acquisition by massive corporations. Eventually the record industry will completely collapse...no matter what style of music.

[@ChristopherMillington-ps5cb]

Happy New Year! Started listening to your videos in 2023. Always interesting and thought provoking and I am finding lots of new works and composers thanks to your recommendations. One thing I'm worried about with the Hyperion purchase by Universal is what will happen to their Romantic and Classical Concertos series. I've been collecting these since they started and would be very sad to see them stop.

[@anthonycook6213]

Elliot Carter told me in 1976 that Columbia records was basically a charity and that in spite of his fame as a composer that his earnings from recordings was 25 cents per $6 LP ( if I remember the price correctly), and Stravinsky wrote in 1962 that Columbia would only sell 3,000 to 5,000 of his records of new pieces in the US, less than 10 percent of Firebird LP sales.

[@seanmcfate826]

Hi Dave, I'm a first time commenter, long time subscriber, and classical music nut. Also an audiophile, so double nut. Question for a future episode? Now that Apple has eaten BIS, will BIS physical product disappear? If so, what five records should we buy up? Here's my list, in no particular order despite the numbers. 1) Suzuki's Bach masterpiece box, or his entire Bach cantatas for hardcore Bachians. He's better than the English school of Bachian like JEG. He's from Dutch school, like Herreweghe. His cantatas are better recorded and played than JEG's pilgrimage trip 20 years ago that sounded like a concert on the move rather than thoughtful discs. 2) The Planet by Andrew Litton because a superb audiophile recording and heartfelt playing. 3) Sibelius but not sure which ones. So many. You've covered this before. 4) Beethoven symphonies by Vänskä: Minnesota Orchestra. A solid cycle for those concerned with top sound. Not Wand, Bohm, etc but few weak links and an alternative. KOL!

[@petertaplin4365]

Happy New Year, Dave! Possibly the only chance for small orchestras, chamber groups and solo performers to recoup some costs of recording is to sell CDs at their concerts, and as the classical audience is generally on the older side, many still use physical product.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

And it turns out that many people who buy CDs, and particularly vinyl records, don't even own a CD player or record player.

[@neila7144]

Your comments are so entertaining and engaging that you should be heard by a larger audience. Now, I'm assuming radio would give you a wider audience. Has any radio station approached you about putting a weekly segment to air?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, and I wouldn't do it. I just don't have time.

[@episodesglow]

Happy new year Dave and everyone else!🎉

[@caseylwr]

Happy New Year David, Enjoy 2024 😊👍

[@revivalharpsichord5078]

I think a case can be made that essentially, classical music has virtually always been a money-losing proposition. Consider how music was financed throughout the vast majority of its history, usually through subsidies by royalty and the aristocracy. The notion that classical composers of previous centuries were the early equivalent of today’s rock stars is absurd. Classical music, from its roots, was a fine art form paid for by the aristocracy for the aristocracy. Don’t kid yourself that 18th-century Viennese chambermaids were rushing off to Esterhazy Palace to hear the latest Haydn symphony, or that Parisian chimney sweeps would go home at the end of the day to perform Rameau’s Pieces de Clavecin en concerts with their family. The common people had folk, and later pop, music, but classical music was never a major industry aimed at consumption by a mass market. More recently, performing arts organizations have derived little of their revenue from ticket sales, but instead depend primarily on wealthy donors, charitable foundations and corporations hoping to polish their public image. Metropolitan Opera General Director Rudolf Bing once stated in a TV interview that producing opera was inevitably a money-losing proposition, and that, in his view, that was how it should be. Major recording companies like Columbia and RCA would produce classical recordings as prestige projects while their vast pop catalogues paid the bills. Some time ago, exorbitant production costs in the U.S. forced record companies to depend more and more on European orchestras and recording facilities. I recently asked a well-known classical musician what his next recording projects will be, and was surprised to hear that it would depend on when he could raise the money to pay for the production himself. I worked for 22 years at the Ravinia Festival in the Chicago area, which for much of its history was primarily a venue that showcased the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, though it was independent of the CSO’s actual organization. They were able to do it for many years through the generosity of wealthy North Shore residents, but ballooning costs long ago prompted them to mix in a few pop shows, which were cheaper to produce and drew larger audiences. This trend grew and eventually resulted in a major change in Ravinia’s profile; if you check out their more recent season schedules, you’ll find a much higher percentage of big-box-office rock and pop shows. The CSO still performs there, but it ceased to be the financial raison d’etre for what has become, for a majority of Chicagoland residents, a venue for blockbuster pop acts.

[@MarshallArtz007]

Maybe you’ve already talked about this, but have you considered delving into classical music performances that are available on KZbin? After decades of acquiring LPs & CDs, one day I pretty much stopped cold turkey. Now I find pleasure poking around KZbin’s seemingly endless catalogue of old audio & video recordings and the overwhelming amount of new releases that constantly appear. Would you be interested in becoming our guide through the world of classical music KZbin videos? 😎🎹

[@leestamm3187]

I'm another who has done the same. I once had an excellent component audio system but my hearing, even with the assistance of high-end hearing aids, is no longer good enough to necessitate audiophile fidelity. As such, the sampling rate on most KZbin music uploads is more than adequate for me. As you noted, the selection available is amazingly vast.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sorry, but no, I would not. As you say, it's endless and my life is not!

[@lorenzogallegos3504]

Your awesome Dave. Happy New Year o wise one!

[@markdecker2112]

BIS was an early adopter of SACD and surround (5.0 anyways), so perhaps Apple's interest is in a catalog of classical titles that can convert to Atmos easier than what they would be able to get out of many other labels that didn't record in surround. Hyperion got out of SACDs when they lost their lawsuit years ago so their surround titles are much smaller.

[@hmsworcester]

Exactly what I thought when I heard of the acquisition. Being the juggernaut that they are the existing BIS catalogue is probably only part of the plan. I heard Apple demands that new music, independent of genre, supposed to be added to Apple Music, has to come in an Atmos variant. There have been complaints that creating the Surround mix is an art of its own, understood by few, heavily influencing the final musical experience of the recording. BIS has that experience, so Apple can walk the talk and showcase quality Atmos releases through BIS that show the strengths of their approach to surround. I only hope they keep releasing SACDs under the BIS label also.

[@robertjamesstove]

"Agglomerating" is my first $100 word for 2024. Happy New Year, Dave Hurwitz.

[@Bachback]

Happy New Year Big Guy.

[@thiinkerca]

That is truly surprising wow. Basically the model that film studios have is what record companies are doing.

[@BeeMichael]

Happy new year. You present a thoughtful view of the record industry. On a general scale, I wonder if “classical’ music is dying or dead and we just don’t know it yet. The pandemic has caused such a ripple in the fabric of life in general and the entertainment industry, particularly concert music. Orchestras are struggling, and relying on playing movie scores to draw in younger audiences, the general audience is getting grayer and grayer, . All this has, as you said, been said for years, but one has to ask, is how sick is the patient, and what is the prognosis?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It isn't sick and it's not dying. It is changing. That's all.

[@jesus-of-cheeses]

Apple’s revenue from services isn’t just from the services. They use the services to sell hardware. For example, Apple Music only allows lossless streams on Apple devices. So getting (typically affluent) classical fans to switch to Apple Music will likely incentivize a significant chunk of them to start/keep buying Apple devices. And that’s where they make the big bucks.

[@neonquixote5278]

This is what separates Apple from Spotify, and why in the long run I think Spotify is a takeover target. Apple does not do loss leaders, but they don't need to make a big profit on streaming because, as you say, it's a carrot to keep customers in the ecosystem. Their margins on hardware are quite good, so as long as streaming just breaks even they're doing okay; but for Spotify, streaming is the only revenue they have and they're still struggling to remain profitable.

[@TheYuhasz01]

New business model for subsidized (by creatives) content discovery and distribution via web delivery platforms(maintained by distributor organization). Same thing is happening with books and movies as well. In book and journal publishing, referred to as open science or open access : free to read or use by people and costs are provided/subsidized by creators. One effect here is creators in complete artistic charge of how their work is produced(they are paying for it).

[@john1951w]

The Beatles and the Rolling Stones sales subsidised classical records from Decca and EMI.

[@horrortackleharry]

Good point. But there aren't really any massive pop/rock cash cows like that anymore, so ultimately they will now rely on government arts funding.

[@john1951w]

@@horrortackleharry The UK doesn't support the "serious" Arts any more. It's all dumbed down and has to be PC "inclusive".

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Ha. The former great old video store in this area had its Criterion Collection art movies, etc. subsidized by the films in the porno room in the back.

[@murraylow4523]

Funny @@OuterGalaxyLounge

[@paulbrower]

Apple Music will need to buy out a label for warhorse material and make it exclusive so that customers will get the music exclusively from Apple Music, only on proprietary devices, and of couse at Apple prices.

[@ER1CwC]

How does/will the industry deal with platforms like KZbin that offer products for free? The core of my listening ‘rep’ consists of opera recordings and live broadcasts from the beginning of the LP era, and you can practically find everything on KZbin in some shape or form. Is this mainly a historical recording issue?

[@dizwell]

I don't mind the death of physical product, provided it doesn't also mean the death of ownership. Happy to download a FLAC, but not to stream (i.e., rent), basically. 😅 Happy New Year to you, Dave.

[@heatherharrison264]

Same here. Physical products take up a lot of space and are inconvenient. These days, I hardly ever buy physical product, mainly because I don't have room for it. A DRM-free FLAC, as can easily be obtained from Presto Music, works fine. Ownership is not lost this way. Downloads with DRM (which Apple has always loved) are not acceptable, and streaming is only good for something you only care to hear once. I keep my entire music library on a very large hard drive. It is easy for me to find whatever music I want to listen to, and I don't have to dig around on a dusty shelf to find it. Of course, regardless of whether you prefer physical products or downloads, it is important to make backups. Hard drives can fail, and CDs can rot.

[@strqrt70]

@@heatherharrison264 CD rot isn’t really an issue. I currently own over 5,000 CDs, many of which are over 30 years old(some older), and I’ve almost never encountered that issue. There was a manufacturing issue with CDs made in the U.K. By Philips DuPont in the late 80’s and early 90’s, many which were pressed for Hyperion, where a chemical was used in the manufacturing process that created cd rot in some discs. They called it “bronzing”, due to the color change that occurred to the discs over time. I had about 10 or so of those over the years. Otherwise, I think it’s a non issue. I’m sure our CDs will outlive us all.

[@dizwell]

@@heatherharrison264 It's also important to store your FLACs on a file system that doesn't introduce silent corruption: ZFS will do. I keep my 6000+ CD-equivalent of FLAC music on a two-8TB-disk ZFS mirror, backed up to a 4-disk ZFS raid-6, plus another 4TB USB offline backup disk, plus an in-cloud Backblaze sync. If you curate your collection (i.e., add metadata tags and album art etc, meaning you add informational value to whatever FLACs you purchase), it's important to have *more* than 2 copies of it. The rule of 4 should apply: the source, the backup, the offline backup (periodically refreshed) and the off _site_ backup. Plus, use a variety of operating systems (so a bug in one doesn't floor you completely) and use a bit-rot-proof file system (ZFS ideally, BTRFS if you really have to).

[@neonquixote5278]

@@heatherharrison264 Apple hasn't sold music with DRM since the introduction of iTunes Plus, when the bitrate went from 128kbps to 256kbps. I have bought plenty of tracks from iTunes with no DRM whatsoever.

[@doctorzingo]

I'm unsure as to how profitable classical music really was in the old days. Most major labels were prestige projects for broadcasting or electronics giants (RCA, Columbia, Deutsche Grammophon/Siemens, Philips). I'm frankly a bit surprised that so much music is still available on various streaming platforms. I've long expected the companies with almost limitless cash like Apple and Amazon to buy the rights for various recordings and only make it available on their platform (like video content is already restricted to certain providers today). Perhaps the BIS aquisition is a sign of this.

[@sfd373]

What is the cost of producing an album of say, piano music? If the industry is now basically a charity, is it possible for a private individual to sponsor a pianist to record their next disc? I’ve seen some musicians using KZbin and patreon as ways to supplement income, as well as serve as advertising for their concerts. Is live performance now the best / only real way for musicians to earn a living as musicians?

[@willcwhite]

I’ve got a pay-to-play album in the works. I had the option of a physical cd run. They wanted $25 A DISC to produce physical product. No thanks!

[@mickeytheviewmoo]

Weird about Hyperion. I produced a video on You tube with some copyright free music. Hyperion claimed the music under copyright but subsequently banned the music being used on KZbin. It was frustrating me as I had to find some different music and reissue the video.

[@davidvankley7029]

The BIS acquisition makes me very concerned that I will never get the complete Allan Pettersson set from Christian Lindberg. They're so close to completion!

[@davidrowe1004]

VERY bad news indeed. There goes the SACD format from BIS and what was left of innovative releases from Hyperion. Damnit.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not necessarily. As I said, it depends on who pays. Most, of not all, of that innovation was paid for by someone else.

[@jesus-of-cheeses]

I’m hopeful we’ll see big boxes from Hyperion going forward. 🤤

[@Fafner888]

Dave is probably personally responsible for half of the global purchases of classical cds, because he buys in bulk every single recording or reissue that he reviews.

[@neonquixote5278]

Apple buying BIS is somewhat curious, as they've never owned a record label before. Based on their previous behavior, I suspect what they really wanted were their audio engineers, as they do some of the best recordings in the business. For Apple acquisitions are usually about getting people and access rather than technology or products.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

We have no idea if the engineers come with the deal.

[@StephanieM772]

I’m going to keep buying CDs and (in the words of Pete Townshend) hope I die before I get old…even though it’s way too late for that now.

[@martinhaub6828]

This doesn't bode well for upcoming conductors, orchestras, concert soloists or even composers. There might be some terrific work being done, but we'll never know it. Any young baton wielder who thinks that he/she will have the recorded legacy of say Ormandy, Bernstein, Solti or Karajan is going to be sadly disappointed.

[@ModusVivendiMedia]

It's still subsidized by someone same as it always has been. Even decades ago, there was some sponsor (whether the taxpayer or a corporate sponsor or a foundation) for all those famous recordings by the big orchestras. The record labels didn't pay the full cost of production even then.

[@itsaboutchina732]

2023 the year Classical Music became Jazz. I am just glad new orchestral music is over 3 minutes. The new Jazz I have been unintentionally exposed to is unlistenable IMO.

[@Listenerandlearner870]

Will a streaming company have a clue what to stream ?

[@josephromance3908]

Ted Gioia argues that Apple has 0 interest in investing in or maintaining a classical catalogue.