2024 D&D Backward Compatibility - Lazy RPG Talk Show

D&D and RPG news and commentary by Mike Shea of slyflourish.com
Video Contents
00:00 Show Start
01:38 Product Spotlight: Esper Genesis on Bundle of Holding
02:35 Product Spotlight: Magic Item Card Generator by Inkwell Ideas
04:30 D&D & RPG News: 2024 D&D Core Book Videos
08:39 Commentary: D&D 2024 Monster Stat Block -- Yuck
14:10 Commentary: The 2024 D&D Players Handbook is the Only Book that Matters
17:53 Commentary: The Specifics of D&D 2024 Compatibility with 5e
29:56 D&D & RPG News: Mobile Character Builder for D&D 2024 on Roll20
32:12 Sly Flourish News: Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master On Sale
33:17 DM Tip: Use NPC Archetypes from a Single Show
40:50 Patreon Question: What Digital Tools Would Help Us?
46:57 Patreon Question: Managing Teleportation in Campaigns
52:57 Patreon Question: How Would I Run Vecna Eve of Ruin
59:48 Patreon Question: How Do You Run Maps?
Links
Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master on Sale for 50% off Digital and 30% off Hardcover!
shop.slyflourish.com/products/return-of-the-lazy-dungeon-master
Subscribe to the Sly Flourish Newsletter
slyflourish.com/subscribe/
Support Sly Flourish on Patreon
www.patreon.com/slyflourish
Buy Sly Flourish Books:
shop.slyflourish.com/
Esper Genesis on Bundle of Holding
bundleofholding.com/presents/EsperGenesis
Printable Magic Cards by Inkwell Ideas
inkwellideas.com/magic-items-5e/?syclid=cpqva6som04s73dokd40#Wondrous%20Items
D&D 2024 Reveals and Discussions on EN World
www.enworld.org/forums/dungeons-dragons.506/?prefix_id=363
D&D 2024 Updates on Comicbook.com
comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-2024-core-rulebooks-everything-you-need-to-know/
D&D 2024 Monster Stat Block Revealed
www.enworld.org/threads/phb-2024-creature-reveal-sphinx-of-wonder.704888/
Roll20 D&D Character Builder
pages.roll20.net/dnd2024?_hsmi=312148033
Character Archetypes from Expanse
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expanse_(TV_series)#Main

[@bobbycrosby9765]

I've started using physical paper and books for D&D. I spend all day on a computer for work so its nice to step away from it for hobbies. I use a notebook for the campaigns I run. I lay it flat so I can see two pages at once - the left page is for prep, right page is for the session. The first few pages of the notebook are reserved for a table of contents, session summaries, etc.

[@ericborg647]

I have been using Static Initiative for npcs for a while now and always have them go after the players. But having them go in the middle makes so much more sense. Thank you!

[@suerainey9250]

I am running Lost Mine of Phandelver, and I am using Deadwood for my npcs. Perfection. None of my players have seen it, and I get to enjoy a new (to me) series.

[@jeffcato713]

Great idea selecting a cast from a single show. The writers have already done the work to create unique characters without much overlap. You could grab a cast for each distinct location, that might even help theme the area. Good stuff.

[@stewi009]

I agree with your opinion of the statblocks. I'm also disappointed to see CR hasn't moved. I know it's in the same place as the 2014 layout, but I've been having trouble finding it there for like 10 years now. Even though I know where it is, my eyes wander around searching for it every time. (By comparison note that the other book you were showing puts CR up in the top right corner - very easy to spot at a glance!)

[@quillogist2875]

Great discussion around backwards compatibility.

[@jelmore49]

What I want the most out of the 2024 D&D is an updated Basic Rules PDF or source option in D&D Beyond (currently it's the Basic Rules plus the SRD). I know the updated SRD will have much of the contents, but I feel like the Basic Rules PDF is a tight ruleset that's good for teaching people at cons or running quick one-off dungeon delves. I've printed off copies of the Basic Rules PDF and had them as reference for L2P sessions so people aren't trying to share someone's PHB.

[@MannonMartin]

I was surprised they didn't change the Topple mastery significantly from testing. Although I don't think it's as big a deal as we're used to. Getting advantage is very good, but under the 2024 rules it is much easier to get advantage, and double advantage doesn't do anything. So, because there are now more ways to get advantage and it happens more often anyway, the ability to knock a creature prone isn't as big in 2024 rules as it is in 2014 rules. The bigger issue with Topple in my opinion is all the additional saving throws. That's just a pain in the arse. If that player uses topple on every attack they make then every time they hit something the DM has to roll a d20, which adds an entire step. Normally it's something like Player Decides to attack & rolls d20 > DM declares hit > Player rolls damage > DM describes effects > Player continues their turn. Now between the hit and damage the DM has to roll, and the player has to check their stats for the DC. It even messes up the usual efficiency saving of rolling your damage dice with the d20 and simply ignoring them if you miss, because it's backwards. It requires the DM to roll on the players turn. I kinda hate that. I'd prefer it be an ability check on the player's part vs a monster stat instead of a saving throw. Then the player could just roll an additional d20. If you had a different colored one you could even roll all the dice together. It's still an extra roll, but I think it might flow better. But maybe I'm overthinking it. I guess if you already know your player does this every time you'd just roll your d20 every time they hit by habit and you'd know his DC by memory after just a couple hits. *shrug*

[@suerainey9250]

Lol! VECNA! Hah! I am going with the idea of him thinking that he's a god and all the other gods are like, "Look at that. Another something that wants to rule the world. What a child." Like a little 8th grader to high school seniors. That can totally play into your ideas!

[@JunMiyazaki]

I like your idea of using characters from the same TV show - however i'm doing the exact opposite :D I really like choosing different characters from different popculture sources and occasionally mix and match them :D In my homebrew setting I have a masterspy character from CP2077 Phantom Liberty (Solomon Reed), but also a bandit leader from Mass Effect (Aria T'Loak). It is an extra background entertainment for me - what if these NPCs would live in the same world? It is a delightful childish fantasy for me, like playing with a Darth Vader toy and a dinosaur toy :D

[@synmad3638]

Your Vecna adventure sounds awesome

[@suerainey9250]

Yes! I'd use this, for sure.

[@Deadshot15]

Loved your observation about going back to more analog stuff has felt good. I've been playing forever and was getting heavily into the digital stuff as a result of playing during COVID. Recently I have gone back to flip mat with tokens and paper sheets and dice. It really brings me back to the early days and I am quite enjoying the stripped down experience without all the bells and whistles. Players seem more focuses as well. Thanks for the video!

[@quillogist2875]

This initiative idea has a pretty big impact on characters with initiative features. I need to think more about it for assassins, certain ranger subclasses, etc.

[@kurtoogle4576]

I really like Mike's version of Vecna Eve of Ruin!

[@009michael]

Awesome fixing of Vecna. Can't wait for the handout.

[@theyellowninjadude]

Yeah that sounds like an awesome idea or concept. I think I’m going to make a combination of multiple alternate ideas for how to use it for my home brew campaign.

[@Otaconsps]

Your Vecna campaign already sounds so much better!

[@willmendoza8498]

I like the new block compared to the old one.

[@thenineofgossamer]

I was talking with another GM friend a few weeks ago about Eve of Ruin, I'm glad I wasn't the only one going "I think them being in love and causing havoc would be COOLER" N I C E

[@AvengerYouT]

For NPCs, I've been thinking about using the 12 Jungian Archetypes. They are pretty generic, have intuitive names and work well in fantasy. Also can be rolled on a d12. I can even mix 2 of them to make a more complex character.

[@SlyFlourish]

I’ll have to look them up.

[@quillogist2875]

I like the stat block. Having the saving throw there is handy, Especially for new dms.

[@bokodasu]

I'm thinking hey yeah, use characters from tv shows! Excellent idea! But all I've been watching lately is Columbo, where the only character is Columbo, and he's a terrible NPC. BUT every NPC could be better if they said things about their wife or cousin or brother-in-law or nephew or whatever, or mentioned places they visited with their in-laws when really they wanted to go to some other place. Makes the world seem much more alive, so I'm gonna work on doing this.

[@snieves4]

Love everything you do thank you. Was accused of trolling for bringing up compatibility in the dnd discord. My presentation lacked the coherence you bring. Thank you again.

[@nathandsomegames]

In reference to the D&D 2024 Monster Stat Block, I couldn’t help but recognize it from @DungeonDad's video, "First Look at a Never Before Seen D&D Monster!" I'm currently working on a 2024 compatible supplement, and ever since hearing about the redesigned Stat Block, I’ve been eagerly keeping an eye out for it. After watching Dungeon Dad's video, I decided to investigate further. I don't believe this is the redesigned stat block, as the monster stat block he provides in the video right before this one appears quite similar. Unless he's been using the new design since June 10th.

[@nathandsomegames]

Back with an update for those curious! I reached out to @DungeonDad regarding his video, and he confirmed, "This is literally the stat block exactly as it appears in the upcoming 2024 Player's Handbook" It's reassuring to know it's the redesigned stat block. That being said, I echo Mike's sentiment that the new stat block could have benefited from more community review.

[@bbedeschi]

15:07 i read the basically rules, return of the lazy dungeon master and started reading DMG i am glad I came across your book cuz if I had read DMG first I would've just given up. the thing way too bloated. I was like "bro, gotta get a PhD to be able to play a game?". anyways, later on I convinced the wife to buy the rest of sly flourish books and I couldn't be happier. I have finally run my first session zero ever and it was very fun. I had spent like... 30min prep for a game that lasted 3h.

[@gchristopherklug]

You have a great show. Wish you all the best.

[@nerdaccount]

I have been wondering why this is coming out so early, but I assume they sell more books this way. I do wish they gave me something extra for digital only pre-order.

[@vektracaslermd743]

What if you made forbiddance a low level permanent ritual with a common-ish material component. Like a line of salt around the perimeter of a room. Or maybe brass has a natural teleportation blocking field effect -- like radiation and lead. It might be one of the first things a wizard learns, in order to protect their uneducated selves from being teleported into a trap by a recently summoned demon. Suddenly, teleport works just fine, but is commonly thwarted.

[@jungalistix]

We've been playing groups with a mix of playtest characters and 2014 characters together. We haven't had a compatibility issue.

[@jaybird_things]

Just started doing campaign diaries for my first long campaign since buying Return, and Secrets and Clues really shined in that longer format! Shouldve mentioned the sale in my vid lol

[@theyellowninjadude]

My idea for Vecna: Eve of Ruin was to have Mordenkainen and his multiverse council of The Circle of Eight. Eight powerful mages and spellcasters from different worlds across the multiverse. Mordenkainen and Tasha from Oerth Alustriel and Laeral Silverhand, or maybe Elminster from the Realms Raistlin or Dalamar the Dark from Krynn An artificer/wizard from Eberron And an NPC from my home campaign.

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

Loved the video, thanks!

[@michaeljpastor]

Your point about the stat block numbers (just 6) is well taken. For me, however, I like to "show my math" to know why my modifier is the way it is. That isn't to say that WOTC's version is good though - it's a mess even for my purposes.

[@BuckFu]

Things like knocking someone prone seems kinda tedious to add to the rule book, at the table we usually just ask,”can I try to push them down?” and do a STR check. Not a big deal. I really don’t see the issue with classes from 5e clashing with 6e. In the end you are doing damage and rolling a d20. Unless you are completely changing how CR is used against a certain level party, it’s redundant.

[@Gashren]

47:00 The problem with allowing teleportation and then blocking it, or nerfing it, is the players can feel kinda cheated if they get their "kewl move" rendered almost unusable most of the time. It requires GM to benig able to allow them use it most frequently and blocking it only on a good occassion - and those you've mentioned are good examples. The players need to know that such blockades are possible upfront though. 53:00 As The Alexandrian said: "There has to be a reason to remix the adventure in the first place. For an adventure to be worth remixing, there needs to be something really awesome about it. So awesome that it’s worth putting in the effort to bring that experience to the table.". So yeah, I concur, just write your own, and it'll probably be much better (especially since you're going to have to tailor it up for your own group anyway).

[@quillogist2875]

I think the 2024 monster manual is going to be a good buy for the new monsters and the revised monsters to match their cr.

[@anselmoffrisia2930]

I plan to get your discounted book in a few days. I really enjoy watching your planning process in action, so I bet the book is good too. 😊

[@SlyFlourish]

Do it quick! Don’t miss it!

[@dcyphermanplays8233]

The person that asked about limiting the teleport spell. I think one way to deal with that is to talk to your players at the end of the session, and find out exactly where they want to go next session. You really have to stick by that if you're the players. Imho 👋

[@gravyboatman]

Concerning a locally hosted 5e character builder, I've always been a fan of the Aurora Builder. Sadly development was halted in 2020, but it's still working pretty well for the most part.

[@timothyhanson731]

Thank you, I hate the new stat block layout too.

[@lonic123]

Thanks

[@nightlight-zero]

My solution to teleportation has been to have a deity whose domain is the space between the planes, which you need to pass through to teleport / plane shift / etc. This means that teleportation requires divine offerings, interaction with this deity, increased fickleness, etc.

[@kquixotic]

I love your fixes for Eve of Ruin!

[@philippemarcil2004]

As a GM and a player, mixing classes from various version of 5e, such as Tales of the Valiant, Advance 5e, the 2014 or 2024 editions of the game, only become a problems if the power level is out of balance between these versions. For example, I found that most Advance 5e classes are just more powerful and versatile than their 2014 or, so far, 2024 counterpart that I would suggests in an Advance 5e that we should all use the core classes from that book as balancing the power level between them would be too much works. However, the 2014 and 2024 versions are so close in powers level that I don't think I would care that much if a player ask for playing a 2014 or 2024 versions of either class - no or very little works would be needed to make it work.

[@mwpanther]

I had hoped they give us the artificer in the 2024 books. Still a chance it's an advanced option in the DMG but unlikely.

[@SummerOtaku]

Your forbidden Caz & Vecna relationship ❤ ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@flanf]

Are we even sure that the Statblock looks like that? Creators could not post screen shots and always wrote up the things they shown in ther video. So this might be a interpretation from DungeonDad and not how it really looks.

[@nathandsomegames]

I agree and believe this is just Dungeon Dad's Stat Block. I commented on this video and his to see if I can figure it out. I also emailed Dungeon Dad because if this made it to EN World it would be good to set the record straight.

[@zelbarnap]

Have you heard of 'Tales of the manticore"? podcast. so good!

[@howirunit2033]

There really need to be TWO different official stat blocks. The full block with all the bells and whistles and math that appears in the Monster Manual and a condensed version for appearance in adventures and DM notes. And I don’t get why they don’t do this. Personally, however I’d rather have a longer stat block with everything because no one can tell me what I might or might not need in a given situation.

[@dantherpghero2885]

A friend of mine has lost serious $$$ worth of dice over the years. He switched to using dice rolling apps on his phone.

[@jefftheless]

Omg Community is the perfect archetype mine for the adventure I've been thinking about.

[@kahlinwhatley8640]

16:57 If the DMs Guide is bad, won't less people try their hand and DMing?

[@SlyFlourish]

Did they?

[@kahlinwhatley8640]

@@SlyFlourish I don't know. That's why I asked you?🤣 In the abstract, a WOTC DM's Guide that, at its core, is as simple and GUIDED as the Lazy DMs Guide (👏🏾), should create more DMs, no? Like of course there are players who have no interest but I'm sure there are folks who have been interested, opened the 2014 DMG, got frustrated, and decided DMing wasn't for them. Don't you think?

[@Zr0din]

Not to be a suck up - but I didn't DARE DM 5e until I read Return of the Lazy DM. I was not going to read that DMG. I tried to read the first edition when I was young and it made it clear I was not going to read another DMG.

[@ChuckWestfield]

Echo knight.

[@alexabel8010]

Hearing you talk about initiative reminded me of the new DC20 project. I know you've probably been asked to speak on a bunch of times but I'd love to hear your opinion. You're my favourite GM guru ✌️

[@MGunnarson]

At 13 minutes you discuss Initiative and the fun of having 'monsters go in the middle.' I've gotten to this point a LONG while ago and use a very simple method: Make Initiative rolls a Dexterity test (e.g., in Shadowdark, it's a DC 12 Dex check). Pass? You go before the monsters in whatever order. Fail? You go after. No need to write anything down, no need for ordering tent cards on a screen or whatever contrived method D&D youtubers are promoting these days, whatever.

[@SlyFlourish]

Yep! In my games it’s almost always a 12.

[@MGunnarson]

@@SlyFlourish I’ve never had to do this but I think against an extremely “fast” opponent, I’m not sure if I’d raise the DC or give Disadvantage

[@matthewfulgenzi8075]

@@MGunnarsonhence the idea of using the 10+dex modifier. It’s not much more complicated, just as fast and easy but gives a little more variety. I would save disadvantage for circumstantial/environmental impact, e.g. noisy, low light, some other reason enemies get the “drop” on PCs.

[@MGunnarson]

@@matthewfulgenzi8075 A little more variety? I'm not so sure. My players are adamant that they love the chaos of rolling for initiative at the start of every round.

[@matthewfulgenzi8075]

@@MGunnarson to clarify, PCs still roll…enemies just use 10+dex. That way they aren’t always at 12, but can very slightly. Zombies at 8, Quickling at 16. Then if circumstances warrant it, PCs roll straight, at ADV, or at DADV. Less work for “lazy DM” in prep, but still fun for players?

[@jasonsunday2932]

Speaking Schwalb, the Demon Lord is coming to 5E!

[@SlyFlourish]

What??

[@jasonsunday2932]

@@SlyFlourish Check out the bottom of Weird Wizard Kickstarter Update #48!

[@GreenThingonTV]

Your remote player might consider dddice. Free, simple, and no registration necessary.

[@fortunatus1]

If you pre-order the digital and hardcover books, you will have a discount of $60. The digital books will cost $10 instead of $30.

[@plarp]

The player's handbook is the game. Everything else is supplementary.

[@jeaugust]

A rewrite of Eve of Ruin where Vecna's motives now circle a gay love story? Happy Pride!!! Can't wait to read the full article.

[@howirunit2033]

I have not been happy with feats since I started 5e. I think they are too powerful and giveaway too much and the idea of adding an ASI to them on top of that makes me shudder. I wish I had just told my players we are not playing with feats when we started. Instead, I tweak some of them down instead, a solution I am also not happy with.

[@emirefli]

I sincerely believe that feats and multiclassing weren't playtested as much as other stuff. There is a reason they are Optional after all. I just wish they put them into DMG with the other optional rules but alas.

[@howirunit2033]

@@emirefli I haven’t had any issues with multiclassing but then again my group is into narrative-based multiclassing, not builds focused.

[@bucko7913]

I like that you mention tales of the valiant. It seems like it not covered as much as it should be imo.

[@1979fsa]

Many people found ToV a bit of disappointing.

[@armorclasshero2103]

WotC is always a byword for hubris.

[@Mr_GoR_]

ROFL the general take on VEoR among D&DTubers has been "Run something else." 🤷*sigh*

[@wingedhussar2909]

We live in the digital age. Initiative isn't a problem anymore and can be entirely automated.

[@rgmadd7]

I hate digital dice at the table. So dumb.

[@HeirophantCarneus]

Can we all just agree to call it 5.5? Like come on 😅

[@armorclasshero2103]

2024 is 6e; just say it. Many in the community have said Tasha's fundamentally changed the game. Tasha's is 5.5e