2024 MOON DRUID vs The Gauntlet

[@cmccbuilds8229]

In 2024, Druids keep their Wildshape even when losing temp HP! They also changed the wording on Conjure Woodland Beings, so that it upcasts at every level above 4th (instead of 5th).

[@guamae]

Not that it came up much, but on the topic of rules-corrections, 6th level Moon Druids get to add their Wisdom to Con saves. Too many fiddly bits! 😝 Just saw where that was caught 🤪

[@logancuster8035]

Nice of that mage to not cast Counter Spell…

[@mogalixir]

I have been telling people for a while that Druid was incredibly buffed even though it was already a very strong full caster in 2014, and that is before all of the shenanigans Moon can get up to with Wild Shape. It didn't occur to me to exploit flyby and defensive duelist in this way.

[@Uranium_Diet]

the parrying owl is hilarious, although I can't imagine that would fly at many tables.

[@mogalixir]

Sounds like something a moon druid owl could do if you'd let a wizard do it. I could imagine a dagger in an owl's talons.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Can’t imagine it would “fly” I see what you did there ;)

[@mogalixir]

Flew over my head.

[@KaitlynBurnellMath]

@@mogalixir Yeah, I tentatively agree with this take. It's really only using moon druid for the movement, the flyby, and the temp HP. Not wildly different from say, an abjuration wizard with the speedy feat dipping for armor proficiency (and that build would be able to use duelist).

[@studiostrange]

It wouldn’t need to be a moon Druid. Circle of the Sea could do the same thing with their fly speed at 10th level. Additionally, with Conjure Woodland Beings you can disengage as a bonus action. Speedy + Longstrider for +20 movement. You would lack some temp hp but those could be replaced in other ways. Neat trick regardless.

[@1ShadowFlame]

@1:13:00 it seems you forgot the new lvl 6 moon druid feature that lets you add your wisdom modifier to ANY constituion saving throw. Love what i have seen so far. (also earlier on he mentioned that he only has the temporary hitpoints untill he is knocked out of wildshape. When you lose your temporary hitpoints you still have your wildshape going, now you just start losing HP from your normal health pool IIRC, this is under the new normal wildshape rules) feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

[@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon]

Yes you are right about both things. We were still pretty new to the rules at the time of recording, glad you're enjoying the vid!

[@1ShadowFlame]

@@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon i really enjoy hearing you guys talk and play, super smooth. definitely enjoyed the 2 hours i watched so far. Good job!

[@mikegilkey]

So awesome you posted the full play through!

[@ram3n_goblin]

The new emanation rules and when they trigger damage is extremely consequential to a strategy we call Rugby on the Treantmonk server. Moving the aura into the target triggering the damage, rather than just when the target is moved into the aura, makes all the difference. To Rugby with this build, the pilot shouldn't Attack in their wild shape, they should use their action to Ready movement, triggered just before their next turn (phrased naturally, "when that mummy does anything, I'll fly around"). This retriggers the CWB damage on all enemies a second time. Each of your allies can also trigger the CWB damage by grappling the CWB caster (Rugby ball) and dragging them past the enemies again. Rugby scales with summons/allies that can grapple or act as mounts. A moon druid should use another wild shape to summon a goat as a familiar, which has the anatomy requisite to serve as a mount. On the CWB caster's turn, they'll use half their movement to trigger CWB against as many targets as possible, half to mount the goat, and Ready to dismount and move at the start of a creatures turn other than the creature that goes after the goat. On the goats turn it will move to trigger CWB on all targets and use its action to ready movement at the start of the next turn. If you go full Rugby, then you can trigger CWB against each target 6 times per round (your movement, your readied movement, goat's movement, goat's readied movement, orc's grapple and drag, kenku's grapple and drag).

[@cmccbuilds8229]

It’s Beyblade style at the Gauntlet lol

[@henrymalinowski5125]

Since when is readying movement allowed? Movement is something you do ON your turn and there isn’t a “move” action to Ready. The closest thing is the Dash action, but that isn’t movement per se; just something that increases your Movement on your turn.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

I’m pretty sure he’s talking about readying the dash action

[@ram3n_goblin]

@@henrymalinowski5125 Since 2014. It's still allowed in 2024. Read the Ready action subsection of the Actions in Combat section of the Combat Chapter 9 (2014). Or read the Ready [Action] entry in the Rules Glossary (2024).

[@henrymalinowski5125]

@@ram3n_goblin Can’t believe I missed that all this time. Guess it’s because I’ve never seen it used in all my years playing.

[@arsov9885]

"New" edition power creep is real! I think the creators did enjoy playing spirit guardian cleric in BG3.

[@antonioguak647]

I want to see the new monk

[@BorrowedKnowledge]

This was great. Even on 2x speed everything was easy to follow.

[@danielepotenza8556]

Cant wait to see how it fares since we dont have the 2024 MM. Good Luck

[@1ShadowFlame]

Nice! finished the video. it is nicely edited for a 3:40 hours video. Other take aways, fly speed and kiting seems really good in the gauntlet, what surprised me the most was not the dmg you dealt but the amount of dmg you didn't take. makes me think druid might be in contention for best 5.24E class. What class do you guys consider to "be the best" Very well played and thanks for the video.

[@jeffreyrankine2533]

Only 18 minutes in, but I was expecting the Kenku and Orc to grapple the owl and drag it in and out of range of enemies, yet again proccing damage from Conjure Woodland Beings. Emanations are now completely broken 😅

[@lukesandadordoceu4835]

despite knowing how broken the dual wielding Bladelock Valor Bard with CME is, I'd still like to see how it'd play against the gauntlet

[@Fyenax]

Even though the second save was successful @ 12:49 he was immune to any further Dreadful Glares (Barring Mummy Lords) for 24 Hours after succeeding the Wis save the first time.

[@ericmunnisjr4763]

Yoh dont lose wildshape if you lost all your temp HPs

[@WATERmelonsCREW]

I haven't finished the video but the druid should stay wildshaped even if they lose their temp hp. They only drop out of wildshape if the time limit is reached, they are incapacitated, they die, or they choose to end it early as a bonus action. Assuming I didn't miss anything in my reading of the new druid

[@arsov9885]

1:25:40 I have question about new rules. Atacking out of vision does not give advantage? In old one: Unseen Attackers: "When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it." Maybe it slipped their mind in the turmoil of battle.

[@psule]

Very much enjoying this - some interesting playlines used. I think that in Encounter 3, Moonbeam cast on the owl's space should have caused damage to the owl, and (regardless of damage) knocked it out of wildshape, as Moonbeam affects all creatures, not just enemies.

[@leslierobinson8724]

Great run, nice showcase of the build, and tactics.

[@tomek3470]

can we get a list of modules, used in presented foundry?

[@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon]

We used Token Aura Ring for the aura, and plutonium.

[@tomek3470]

@@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon what about number of damage taken by monsters, which is displayed under their tokens?

[@logancuster8035]

That owl was only 5 feet off the water in the shark encounter, assuming the emanation was actually in the water at all. Those sharks could 100% jump at an owl 5ft up.

[@larswalter3167]

Did I miss that the Druid made concentration saving throws when he suffered damage?

[@Brianpuz]

Only seemed to be remembered on 5th map.

[@wytchfyre]

So the 5.24 Wildshape does not end when the temp HP are exhausted, so the times the druid was knocked out of wild shape shouldn't have happened.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Did you read the pinned comment before you posted :)

[@michaeln.9897]

Mr. Dungeon probably read up about his Druid (though he still misses a few key points), but he totally blundered on all the help the Expert and Warrior could have given him. The last fights would have been such a walk in the park if they were played to their abilities. Anyways, great show and this shows the Moon Wizard is finally viable at high level play!

[@Wayne0mat]

On what Platform are you guys playing there? looks slick

[@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon]

Foundry VTT

[@1ShadowFlame]

Also around @1:44:00 they are fighting invisible enemies. I dont know about the new rules, but in the old rules you still know where the enemy are even if u cant see them and they are invisible unless they take the hide action. Has this changed or why dont the kenku just know where the polterqeist is for when it is about to shoot. All this meant well. like the video

[@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon]

I don't believe the rules have changed for this, but I wanted to make it harder for Mr. Dungeon

[@chrisvossler8795]

You know where they are, but you still have disadvantage to attack them

[@1ShadowFlame]

@@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon LOOL @3:31:50 you mention that, just hadnt made it that far when i wrote the comment

[@henrymalinowski5125]

Correct; it hasn't changed. PHB 2024 p371, "You can make an Opportunity Attack when a creature that you can see leaves your reach using its action, its Bonus Action, its Reaction, or one of its speeds. To make the Opportunity Attack, take a Reaction to make one melee attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach." Now if you're thinking, "wait, does that mean Misty Step now provokes opportunity attacks?" The answer is no. Teleportation (p376) "... teleportation never provokes Opportunity Attacks" and Misty Step (p299) says , "...you teleport..."

[@notsochosenone5669]

2:35:45 New spiritual weapon is upcasterd with every slot level, not with every two. So it WOULD deal 2d8+wis damage. It is concentration now and it is still stupid 20ft of movement instead of at least 30, but still.

[@jordanmetcalf3383]

So is there a reason the player didn’t have to roll a con save when he placed moonbeam on himself? Also wouldn’t that take him out of owl form? 1:38:27

[@nicoohayon-wilkinson297]

Man really got the Percy Jackson diff

[@hawkingeta7489]

What module are you using to show the damage on monsters? What module are you using for the emanation radius on the owl?

[@wololopurgisnacht]

Interesting that not getting a safe short rest actually helped here. If those flameskulls and mage had stayed with the final encounter instead of being baited out by the short rest this would have been more difficult. Main counter to an emanation focused build in this gauntlet is enemies like those with good ranged damage and priests casting dispel magic (which none of them got a chance to do)

[@afterhours8463]

It's interesting seeing the changes to druids and many spells. Really makes rolling up a martial less inciting

[@joeyjohns9517]

what is the vtt being used

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Foundry

[@joeyjohns9517]

@@cmccbuilds8229 thank you

[@jonathanhaynes9914]

Nice

[@kyle29857]

Foundry Question: What skins or mods are you using? The Character sheet looks so much better than what my group is using. I'm guessing we are using the default.

[@buraeen5735]

You might be on an old version of Foundry that hasn't been updated to use the newer sheets.

[@kyle29857]

@@buraeen5735 yes, the DM at our table added the update after I wrote this and now the sheets are looking so much better and seem easier to use. It's a really good improvement.

[@buraeen5735]

@@kyle29857 Yeah our group is still on the old ones and I'm trying to get us updated as well. Happy to hear it's working well for you though. 😁

[@akenaden]

Any theories as to why he triggered oppertunity attacks in 1st combat on purpose? Seems he just gave up hp for no advantage.

[@mikegilkey]

Go Orcus! Nice Crit!

[@jwell4638]

Don't particularly like the player seeing the roll then deciding to attack the mummy (whom they didn't even know they could attack).

[@zachswanson6643]

If your whole turn is going to be run around with an emanation, then dash to run some more, isn't it strictly better to ready your dash until the start of next turn so you can trigger more damage on the enemies nearby but not adjacent?

[@gabrielcross1062]

great run! what vtt is this? I use roll20 and this seems interesting

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Foundry

[@guamae]

That's Crazy... Owls dashing around, 60 ft fly, no Opportunity Attacks, and the AoE damage... There's a 14th level Druid in my game, and I.... Don't know how to counter that 😬

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Dispel magic? Magic missile to drop concentration?

[@guamae]

@@cmccbuilds8229 Dispel Magic is a good option for enemy Casters... And maybe that'll just have to be it. Players should get chances to feel powerful from their OP strategies at least sometimes. I see all the Darts from Magic Missile as being one source of damage, so that won't necessarily work... but there are a bunch of ways to do Incapacitated these days... and *that'll* break Concentration too...

[@buraeen5735]

Grapples too. Even readying them and that will limit number of aoe procs per round.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Each missile procs a check

[@guamae]

@@buraeen5735 grapples don't need to be readied anymore, as they're just an option for Unarmed Strikes now. Anyone with a free hand/tentacle can grapple as an opportunity attack.

[@derekthomas3088]

What ttrpg platform are you using in this video. I like the style and controls

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Foundry

[@CalebWillden]

This was owlbsolutely owlbsurd. 😆Why did they give everyone damage emanations and buff them SO much?! Also owl dragger parry is ridiculous-I kinda hate it but also love it, haha. Also, Orcis and Kenkusion are incredible sidekick names. Orcis is a beast.

[@zode_quest9]

The end of encounter 2 was reverse horror imagine getting attacked by an owl with a death aoe jumping in and out of the darkness

[@scotthalfhill7501]

Really should have readied a grapple.

[@michaelmuirhead910]

Impressive.

[@1979ce]

Im hyped. i hope this is awesome. I've lost my interest in DnD with this new patch for some reason. hope this inspires me.

[@justinreay9727]

what platform is this played on?

[@djmikio]

If the 2025 Monster Manual improves those higher CR beasts all this could be premature. If we get even a quarter the CR 4 selection we get at CR 1 then Moon Druid is up there with the most powerful classes.

[@morganbrandly4782]

How does the Druid have Defensive Duelist? 2 ASI and War Caster were shown in the 5min Build...??

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Check the pinned comments of that vid

[@1979ce]

I would flavor the dagger to be metal claw attachments to the owl that when you turn back into a human are kind of like claw tight fingernails on your hand but in our form it's like you have metal claws and you just takes the place of the dead it's just like a flavor of the dagger

[@kshea4231]

So what is the AOE spell being used? Spirit Guardians?

[@cmccbuilds8229]

CWB

[@DeadpoolAli]

I need like 500 more of these please🥺

[@cmccbuilds8229]

More on the way

[@LoreFoundry]

Was this a lv 14 run? How did the owl form use the cantrip starry whisp?

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Moon druids can cast moon druid spells in wild shape

[@LoreFoundry]

​@@cmccbuilds8229 Oh my god, they can cast spells while in wild shape. How did I miss that one sentence. Thanks, that's pretty awesome.

[@steved2719]

Could the Wizard Counterspelled the non-area attack?

[@wilsonreissouza]

3 hours invested in proving how broken is Conjure Woodland Beings scaling.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

It’s worse after the first errata

[@Mr.DungeonandMr.Dragon]

@@cmccbuilds8229 and we played without that errata...

[@Terrapin311]

Orcis the GOAT!

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

22 minutes in, why was he trying to provoke Opportunity Attacks? That seems like a really dangerous gamble. Edit: You absolutely shredded it!

[@SethTiede]

These have to be the smartest hunter sharks that have ever existed. 😐

[@1979ce]

The owl starywisp shot at 1:27:00 should have had advantage and you don't drop form unless unconscious in 2024.

[@MatheusGDAndrade]

what is this app?

[@cmccbuilds8229]

The vtt?

[@MatheusGDAndrade]

@@cmccbuilds8229 yes

[@johngleeman8347]

No not Orcus, Orcis! Common mistake.

[@AshNamflee]

It bothers me so much that they didn’t get the Wildshape rules right.

[@optimus2200]

1:13:19 moon druid get to add thier spellcasting mod onop of ALL con saves so that might have saved you ! I still not a fan of druids not being able to cast spell sin wildshape totally unfounded and doesnt it sucks that bark skin STILL doesnt do anything for players ! like you could have still added a bonus for higher AC or something ! the Rugby gonna happen regardless with many other casters and classes its not a moon druid only thing ! like Rules as written both Orcy and Kinku could grappled the owl and moved with him dealing the same damage on thier turns. SO that fact making druids unable to cast spells make this tactic just not fun if the druid could sill cast spells there would be many more spells going on making the fight more dynamic and FUN ! and still one more thing they not fixing the attack bonus of beasts like a 14 level druid still using the attack bonus of a CR 0 owl ! like come on ! These two issues really hamarge the druid fun scale and thats very sad because thats my favorite class ! I think if they gave the repeating damage spells the wording that creatures delt the damage cant take the same damage until the start of thier turn would really REALLY fix the grapple and movement spells issues.

[@scotthalfhill7501]

I hate the defensive duelist interpretation. Its obviously not intended, but its not my table.

[@DuckDuck-u3e]

574 Botsford Harbors

[@arcanerecovery2567]

The owl carrying a dagger is pretty cheesy... but can you actually pick and choose which items meld into your form? It sounds like it's an all or nothing, if you choose meld you can't say all except for my dagger... can you? I view this gauntlet run with a huge asterisk.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

I’m pretty sure he dropped the dagger before wild shape. It’s very easy to make it happen

[@steved2719]

Why did he even take NPC's he always had them run away

[@cmccbuilds8229]

It’s part of the rules. You get 2 sidekicks

[@steved2719]

@@cmccbuilds8229 Then he should have taken Casters

[@cmccbuilds8229]

@steved2719 you don’t get a choice

[@razorfate1007]

According to phb2024, weapons must be held, so unless owls grow hands defensive duelist thing should not work, raw.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

If it grabs it with its talon, what is that called? It’s holding it.

[@PVreirei23]

Im sorry, but I don’t care what is the wording of the feat - using defensive duelist while merely holding the dagger looks bad and as someone who has been dming for 16 years I would never approve it. Though it WAS hilarious 😅

[@Tusitala1967]

I lost all interest when the two pound bird started parrying attacks from the thousand pound Chuuls. The idea that merely holding the dagger is all that is required to gain +5 ac for a full round is just too cartoonishly ludicrous.

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Lol. Write a letter to WotC. I don’t make the rules, sadly

[@Tusitala1967]

@@cmccbuilds8229 No you don't, but I feel sorry for you having to adhere to them in a very public game. 😞

[@cmccbuilds8229]

Reality is bent all the time - often in absurd ways by casters. This is no different to me. Realism waved bye bye long ago

[@Tusitala1967]

@@cmccbuilds8229 Embrace the absurdity!

[@fairphone5469]

1:36:00 Okay so parry just gives you Spiderman's Spider Senses I guess.