21. Low Water Flow Problems on La Pavoni Lever Espresso Machines

[@alexhonken]

background in education? incredibly well explained. really great contribution to the community, thank you.

[@MikeJF355]

a BIG thanks for this excellent video. I wasn't getting any water coming through on my machine, I changed the seals and still the same. Watched this video and tightened the plunger rod and now it works like new. the graphic explanation is brilliant and very clever.

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

Yay!

[@JohnKruse]

These flow problems happen to me around twice a year. I don't remove the piston to fix it. I just raise the handle as high as possible and take out the higher pivot pin. Then I just put a thin screwdriver thru the hole in the piston rod and spin it around 3-4 revolutions to re-tighten the rod. Easy peasy lemon squeezy... after typing this, I see someone else below mentioned the same approach. This takes less than 5 min and it will stay tight for quite a while. I've heard others say they put threadlock on the rod when assembling. I may try that next time I have it all disassembled. I'd never tried it before because of the idea of putting anything not "food safe" in the mechanism kind of feels wrong.

[@gregwoodley1547]

Nice vid, thanks mate. I avoided taking the screen out. Using 2 screw drivers. Take handle off in the up position, place a screw driver through the hole in the piston shaft & tighten clockwise by tapping with other screw drivers handle. The friction of the seals & the impact effect worked a treat for me. Went from a dribble to a full down pour shower... I couldn't have done it without your info, so thanks again.

[@bradstokes7820]

Excellent and informative instructional video John. Thank you for taking the time and effort to put this together and make available to the La Pavoni community.

[@b.t.h.9568]

wow that was the best illustrated explanation I could hope for. Good job!

[@ericwolf2513]

Thanks for the brilliant, clear explanation. This really helped me sort out the problem

[@ricksteineck2907]

Just what I needed to fix my no flow issue. Thanks!!!

[@feliponte452]

Excellent video. I been trying to fix my machine for a while before, until I found this video. Thank you

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

I'm glad to hear it.

[@roryp7415]

You can do a temporary quick-fix on the piston by removing the lever arm, then simply screwing the rod clockwise while it's all assembled. With a cold machine, there's enough friction in the seals to allow you to screw it up a few threads and make the machine work again If removing piston entirely, use teflon tape, several layers and screw it on as tightly as you can. Do not use threadlocker, as threadlocker fouls when heated - not suitable for use in a hot group-head. I'm also unaware of any threadlocker that specifically state themselves to be food-safe, yet teflon tape always is

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

Rory, Super helpful comment. Thanks!

[@dandavis807]

This post basically helped fix my La Pavoni Gaggia Factory ,achine - THANKS!...subscribed

[@elams1894]

Thanks John, I'm having this very problem. I did not consider the roller bushing nor the piston rod threading concern. I'll check those out. Cheers!

[@timr6844]

Removing my piston to tighten the rod discovered a 1/8 inch collar around the rod that I broke cleaning the threads. It appeared to keep the rod from tightening all the way down. Don’t know if it’s important but without it I hope more water will enter the group head. We’ll see. Thanks for amazing demo!

[@oferyizhar]

Super helpful video. Thank you!

[@danescerri3297]

Tremendously helpful. Thank you

[@adenwong9409]

John this video was so informative and detailed. I actually have the opposite problem with my La Pavoni. Water is gushing out like a water fall when I push the lever up and allow water into the group head. This happened after I choked the group head with too much pressure when I was pulling a shot. Please help!!! TIA!

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

Aden, I'm not sure what you are describing is a problem. With the portafilter removed and the machine heated up and the lever lifted, hot scaling water SHOULD come gushing out of the group head. Feel free to go into more detail here. Better yet, share your situation with the mob of helpful folks at facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup

[@HAN_DC]

brilliant, solved my problem, thank you!

[@melissaleigh3013]

This was so informative. Thank you SO much

[@frnkndzn]

I dialed up the pressurestat a tad on my post millennium La Pavoni Pro a while back. One day after the machine sat on for half a day I heard the safety valve release pressure like crazy and the pressure almost up to 2 bar. I shut it off and adjusted the pressurestat back down. Since then, water fills the group head very slowly with no force or pressure. Steam works well and I descaled. Could the high heat have melted, altered, or caused some problem? The machine is a year old and I'll be trying all the tips you lay out here. Thanks!

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

Sorry it took a while to reply. I wonder if the two gaskets on the piston could be to blame. I probabily would suggest taking the piston out and removing the group head from the boiler and checking everything over. You could post pictures online here for feedback from me or others in this super helpful group: facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup

[@gregchapman-r2e]

Hi John Thanks for the great video. I have a low or no water problem with my La Pavoni. I have tried all the things you suggested. I have changed the gaskets on the piston. Made sure the piston rod is screwed in tight, and made sure that the piston is able to rise high enough. Still no water. Any ideas? Thanks!

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

So the obvious one is boiler pressure. The easy test is to open the steam want and see if the steam comes out forcefully (or check the boiler pressure gauge if you have one). The less obvious one might be that the siphon tube is not drawing up water. The obvious cause is low water level, but I'll assume that is not the case. Another could be that the siphon tube is cracked (happened to me), or not screwed in properly to the group head. This would result in steam being delivered when you raise the lever, but no water. So tell me, what happens when you raise the lever all the way (while the machine is hot and full of water)? Does little water or steam come out? If so then the piston is not going all the way up. (Could be that the handle installed upside down too) Does a lot of steam come out and no water? The siphon tube is leaking. Does a lot of hot water come out? Then I am confused why we are chatting. :P I've been directing people to facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup for better help from more people who think things through better than any one person can. It's a great group.

[@gregchapman-r2e]

@@JohnMichaelHauck Yes, I have a pressure gauge and it is definitely high enough

[@daanlockefeer3601]

My first shot is reasonable, but after that hardly any water comes out anymore for a second shot. I have checked and tightened the piston, and there is plenty of pressure. Any suggestions? Thank you so much, the video demonstrations are just wonderful!

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

Daan, I'm not sure what you mean about the second shot. I'll assume you are saying: "With the same amount of pressure on the lever, it takes the espresso a lot longer to come out on the second shot." Correct me if I did not understand correctly. Otherwise, what you are experiencing is normal. That is, the group head is hotter which makes the extraction take more force. The reasons behind this is debatable. So, you could: A) Grind a bit coarser for the second shot. B) Heat up the group head more before the first shot (and grind coarser). You can heat up the group head by leaving the machine on longer, or raising the lever up (to just before water comes out without a portafilter) and down a few times.

[@elams1894]

Update: I have 4 of these machines, the models of which span many decades. One unit has low water flow into the group head. I took all 4 apart and discovered that the unit with poor water flow only had 1 inlet hole, whereas the other 3 had 2 inlet holes. I am assuming that the single inlet is the cause of poor water in-flow. Highlights that all units are different in small ways. Cheers.

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

See my comparison of group heads video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJqxo5SdadGMgMk Generation 1 has three holes - 120 degrees apart in a metal sleeve. Generation 2 has two holes next to each other with no sleeve. Generations 3 & 4 have one hole in a plastic sleeve (with a channel that goes to the top). Since you say the problem is with the 1-hole group head, then I am assuming you have a generation 3 or 4 with the low flow issue. I am confident it has nothing to do with the number of holes. Really. I would first suspect the piston rod is not screwed all the way into the piston. Second, I would suspect the siphon tube is cracked or not screwed in. Third, I would suspect a problem with leaking on the plug that the siphon tube screws into. Finally, I would suspect low boiler pressure (test this first - is the steam from the wand forceful?).

[@elams1894]

@@JohnMichaelHauck The single hole unit is a generation 2 machine. Brass sleeve (double boiler). I first assumed steam pressure so modified spring mechanism in safety outlet valve by adding a 1/8 inch brass insert to increase pressure. It steams like a beast so no pressure issues. Stripped whole machine, no leaks. Brass inlet tube is free, unblocked, and inserted with Teflon thread tape. The plunger rod and lever mechanism are all functioning as they should with no issues. The only thing I can think of is a calcified, blocked, part of the head, like you advise. I'll have to keep digging. While a replacement is an easy fix, I'm the kind of person who needs to know as it is my favourite unit. I'll check back in if solution found. Many thanks for your excellent videos, fantastic.

[@subhkhan]

Hi John great vid thanks.....I have a Gen3 which is pouring with water on lifting the lever regardless of tamp and grind. I recently installed a pressure profiling kit to no avail. I have also removed the plastic sleeve to inspect and it looks fine along with the sleeve gasket. I don't suppose you have any ideas as to what may be going on?

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

subhkan, one key pieces that is not clear to me is whether the water is coming from (1) the spout of your portafilter, or (2) around the outside of the portafilter. For the first, you most likely have a problem with your coffee beans being too old (aim for 2 weeks after roasting), too coarsly ground (use a good espresso grinder), or not enough grinds (aim for 14 grams). Alternatively there is a off chance the boiler is under way too much pressure - which is pretty unlikely. For the second case, maybe you forgot to replace the portafilter gasket? Does the portafilter get nice and tight as you lock it in (turn it to the left)? For a better analysis, reach out to the good folks at facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup

[@subhkhan]

@@JohnMichaelHauck Thanks John...yep water comes out of the portafilter spout. The filter is going in so snug and tight so no concern there. I have used all sorts of coffee grinds in there and tamped so hard. I don't understand it. Thanks I have posted already hopefully someone has some insight into it.

[@2728ar]

john, I just replaced the various seals on my pre millenium la Pavoni. Now as I raise the arm to pull a shot, thin coffee drops into the cup and when I bring the arm down to pull, there is very little resistance to press coffee into the cup....only more thin coffee water. Any advice is appreciated. Tony R

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

I would suggest posting this question over at facebook.com/groups/lapavonienthusiastsgroup My first guess is that one (or both) of the two piston seals are up-side-down. They have a V-shaped cross section. The V should be an upright V on the top of the piston, and an up-side-down V on the bottom of the piston. The other guess is that you are not grinding the beans fine enough. In any case the group linked above will help you a lot more than I can.

[@multimulti5230]

Is the model available to download? Would love to play around with it.

[@multimulti5230]

btw supreme content!

[@JohnMichaelHauck]

You can play around with it at bit.ly/LaPavoni