'23 new engine reveal and race plan

New engine and season plans for the hillclimb Starlet. Good old 11,000rpm 4AGE has retired and now it's time for something new.

[@Gripen047]

Ah, end of an era. Loved how far you took the 4A-GE and will miss the sound it made. Best of luck with the RPE engines!

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks. Yes the feelings I had driving with the 4AG were incredible. Especially in Trento where there are so many mountain walls and you have also the echo from the wall gave goosebumps. And constantly there at 11,000 it was and is just an incredible little engine, but I think if one this little v8 should live up to the expectations, high rpm and proper na screamer.

[@dr.markusraindl1745]

@@VHTRacing I really liked the 1.6 4AG engine, which made a really good development to almost 163 hp/Liter, reliable for the application. With your chassis light rear (oversteering turn in) and your oversteer-pushing driving skill it was a great combination. What made you deciding for the over 2-Liter-class?

[@VHTRacing]

@@dr.markusraindl1745 simply to extract more performance. The car has potential to be a very quick car in pF group 2 or 3 where the new engine takes it. We are building the car for FIA performance factor and the displacement is not defining factor for the class where you drive (considered in the factor, but not as only decisive thing). Also the heavy 2l engine (like all typical 4-Cyl 2l would be) would not have made big enough bump in power and would have upset the car balance. The little V8 gives many advantages, symmetry, height and being motorcycle based very short. Front corner weight difference is so much better now compared to the inline four (~4kg vs ~20kg) and also center of gravity lowered significantly. Also the front axle weight is now reduced compared to the old 1.6l engine with the busa V8. This is incredible. For sure also the engine characteristic from the high revving 2.7l fits the chassis, there is no monster torque down low, but more a very wide flexible torque curve that we can manage 1/2 gear once we get some more tuning with chassis/electronics. This is all in search of ultimate lightness. Which hopefully pays against heavier more modern designs. Shall see.

[@dr.markusraindl1745]

@@VHTRacing I totally understand the I4 vs V8 power to weight and barry center advantages. What I still don't understand is why not keeping the engine as a V8, 81x48.5 design, which would be a sensational advantage over the I4's with 300-330 hp. With the same BMEP of the 2.6 Liter the 1.999 Liter having V8 would easily pushing to 340 hp@12000 rpm. Both the valvetrain and the crankdrive are capable of almost 15000 rpm. A friend of mine pushed the 2.0 Liter to 440 hp@14,600 rpm for a 5-mile zone run on the salts of Bonneville. I think the 12,000 rpm area would be possible. I watched your Trento-Bondone race of 2023 and 2021 (I4 engine, 1600 class). You have used the torque curve as traction control and you didn't push it as you pushed the I4. The track time was 34 s faster, but whould have been it with an 340 hp, V8 with 2-Liter not also? What was the cause for not pushing the engine where it could have been?

[@VHTRacing]

@@dr.markusraindl1745 According to some articles PowerTec originally had plans to make a small displacement very high rpm version of this engine for hillclimb and such, but the market pushed the concept for the higher displacement. I don’t see it being such a problem for me the additional displacement and lower rpm range means cost savings actually. If I would start exploring making a custom crank for this and increasing the rpm it would mean also other things to have higher requirements/costs meaning the valve train. Now we can focus to bump up the power (hp/liter) to that 160hp/l which we think is possible and still keep the 11,000rpm max and make the engine hopefully last for long time. Piston speed is still much less than it was in the 4AGE with the 63/65mm stroke and the valve train hopefully will last also as it should and take the beating like it takes in the motorcycles from factory. Ok, the cam profiles/springs we have will of course add loads to the timing chains, gears etc, but we tried to keep this in mind as one design aspect in these profiles we made. Also the small displacement/higher rpm would not make that big advantage in the performance factor, displacement increases it, but higher rpm would again lower it. Coming to Trento race this year. I could and did not attack the race run 100% for various reasons. In training we managed only one run. Had issues with brakes again and also realized the rear axle third link chassis mount was still not stable. Also had not enough data yet to fine tune the traction control + the axle loading/unloading from the not rigid link caused oscillation which I realized there and the tires being new for me (Hoosier) and the fact that the rear compound was too soft (SS). So I just simply short shifted and also did not push the engine all the time even with higher gears since I knew the time would not be good anyway because of the other problems. And also considering the cooling system was not 100% enough either and that I had physically not enough power to turn the wheel with the Hoosiers. So just saved the engine. In the end I was really surprised about the time. The potential is huge when I can attack properly and when we get the power bump of the #1 engine. Next year we will hopefully see the true potential! I believe with time we can dial in the things and really extract the potential. Sure the first two gears and low speeds will have their traction limitations, but as the speeds get higher then there is plenty of grip to be used! We need data to work on and driver needs to learn 😊

[@venuzmale]

As my first car was a Starlet (1981) i can really appreciate this, we swapped in a Toyota Lite-Ace 1.5 engine and slapped on a Martelius race exhaust....it was tons of fun but this is on a whole other level of respect.And btw , have you ever heard a Finnish guy speaking such beautiful english ,could never tell hes finnish 😅🙌🙌🙌

[@VHTRacing]

Thank you very much, i take this as a huge compliment :)

[@chrismeakin3388]

Super excited to see the V8 journey. Good luck with the build and for 2023

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks!

[@viibstoys]

From eargasm to eargasm 🤤 can't wait to hear the new engine

[@jamesred911]

This will sound so awesome!! Very excited to hear the first run up a hill.

[@VHTRacing]

Can't wait!

[@pathetikkk]

What an incredible choice Mikko ! Can't wait to hear it in action ! ✌

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks yes so exited to hear it run for the first time.

[@fienddebug8017]

That was amazing plan and project, very excited👍. I think very rare hatchback V8 on competition screaming on high rpm, owner hatchback cars who loves motorsport around the world must know this project. I pray this new project will go well and smoothly.

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks and let's hope so.

[@ToreDL87]

Those lightweight V8's are beasts, they work, and are going to give you a serious bump in performance and less "when will it break" feel of the 4A-GE, and will provide the fun of a little R&D without being a massive R&D project like the 4A-GE. Not at all shocked by the 4A-GE's replacement. Hasselgren said they could make improvements, and wanted to build heads with integrated slide-valve ITB's for them but was effectively barred from doing so, and they're infamous for engine block flex, so with nobody making aluminum blocks for them either, you're hitting the limit of a 40 year old design with heavily compromised engine block, based on a 60 year old design that Ford/Cozza discarded once they had enough data and evolved it into the turbo EFI twin cam line-up. Some gains might have been made with a 20v, I think the rumored 320hp N/A record was made with a 20v head, but then you have more moving parts than with a 16v, and more than likely would have been a one-try build strictly to beat record. Or, in so many words, the 4A-GE was going to start holding you back. Thumbs up on this one, it's going to be rad 👍 Sad to see the famous 4AGE go, but some serious R&D went into that engine, what with custom crankshaft built by old-school non-3D company (I like that), Titanium hardware in the "bang" bits, etc, unless you sold it I hope you put it on display or a rustbucket KE70, Ueo style 👹 If anyone wants a 250hp 4A-GE, they know who to commission for a build! Myself will only gun for about 180hp, 190 max, so won't require anything that insane, just want a semi-rad old school street engine that runs on 98 Octane pump gas. Titanium rods that fit Toda pistons are tempting though! My engine builder is picky, but from what I understand you only have Piston+rod package?

[@WickedTRX]

I’m looking forward! I’m really intrigued about the throttle actuator you’re using on the 4A-GE! I’m thinking about cutting a Bosch throttle body and doing something very similar but what you’re using seems to be purpose built to actuate ITB’s

[@AnakinTuningGarage]

Great choice my friend, keep the good stuff coming!! My personal all-around car is a Toyota Starlet Glanza and love it ❤

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks, yes let's see where we race next. Need to work on the front brakes and some other things, but can't wait to race again.

[@ProjectoD77]

A bit sad as I'm a huge fan of the 4A-GE, but that new engine is probably one of the few that I can be really exited about ! (the other one would be the Synergy V8) The real question is, will you be able to push that much more power to the ground with the starlet ?!

[@VHTRacing]

I don’t think I need full throttle at first two gears, but after that I don’t think there is a problem. Possibly even wider rear tires needed and we have some aero already there to help and maybe even more in the future.

[@teodorotorres7217]

Ok

[@WRCAndre]

We will waiting for that incredible Project. I hope, we se you in Schotten. Andre from Rallyeszene

[@VHTRacing]

Hoffentlich sehen wir in Schotten. Es gibt viel zu tun, aber machbar. Und muss irgendwo erst Probefahren war nicht lustig erst hoch in Schotten mit der neue Motor fahren 🤣

[@R3IMU]

You needa put the 4ag into a panda 86. Actual Takumi clone haha. Can't wait to see this thing tear up the asphalt in Schotten :)

[@VHTRacing]

Haha, that would be good. And then make a proper video somewhere in the night time drifting a mountain road up actually revving to 11k. It would break internet I think 🤣

[@Leonidae]

​@@VHTRacing DO IT!😂😂

[@JDMowner2]

Can't wait to see & hear this !!

[@jamiehodgins7439]

Very Nice Mikko, that will make it sound great, hopefully still ok with the short wheel base and the extra HP

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks Jamie. Let’s see, only time will tell. What I’m sure about it will not be boring to drive 😊

[@iliasmetalworks]

Wish all the best!

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks and same to you 😊

[@Carbonarars]

The podcast on HPA was great👌👍

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks 😊

[@FeeeshEP3]

This is going to be really awesome!

[@VHTRacing]

Let’s hope so 😊

[@oldmennewgames]

Wow looks monster that will be cool.

[@abarthcorse3750]

An interesting project and a big leap into the 3l class. But a Mikko always needs a new challenge.I wish you every success and good brakes for Trento.

[@VHTRacing]

Thanks. Yes 20-years with small displacement and the 4AG is as good as we can with our resources get it so there was time for something new. Also we really like the chance to drive in FIA European championship, but with 1600cc in middle of pF group 3 no chance to be competitive. So why not try something more powerful while still young and see what we can do.

[@abarthcorse3750]

@@VHTRacing Hi Mikko, crossed fingers for your new saison. We met many years ago in the Mickhausen paddock. You were still at the very beginning with your Starlet. And now you're driving in the European Championship.

[@nanocivicek4716]

Wow incredible job😍 come race in Switzerland please 🙏🏻

[@VHTRacing]

There’s one particularly fast hillclimb we definitively want to do in the future 😉

[@nanocivicek4716]

@@VHTRacinglet me guess Saint Ursanne les Rangiers ?👀

[@JuniorTailor]

Hope I can see you in Schotten this Year. How does the new Engine fits?

[@Evolution20v]

Your Starlet are crazy, what in the world should we call it now??? 400hp in a KP are seen before, but those cars only run straight, not on a narrow mountain road. This will be really interesting to see, and defiantly hear! But I really hope you will upgrade the safety cage, to more modern standard. I'm really gona miss your 4age, this are the absolute most advanced 4age on the planet. Idle are smooth, even more smooth than a brand new Toyota engine, which are weird with those cams. I enjoy watching your videos where you rebuild it, its give me inspiration for my own 4age build. I wish you the best of luck with the new engine 🙂

[@VHTRacing]

Good question, have been thinking it also what would be a proper fitting name now with the new engine for the car. Maybe it’s just that VHTRacing Starlet what it kind of has been known for years. Starlet 8V become Starlet 16V and to Starlet V8.. So is there in the future then V16 coming in next 20 years 🤣

[@heindrichs-racing5091]

Wow crazy stuff mate 😅

[@VHTRacing]

Es gibt sehr schnelle Opel’s dass Mann muss alte Toyota auch ins 2000 bringen so dass wir zu kämpfen könnten. 🤣🤣

[@heindrichs-racing5091]

Wenn du den Motor drin hast glaube ich das wir nicht mehr viel kämpfen können 😅

[@georgegabriel4070]

Show us EVERYTHING!!! 🔥

[@VHTRacing]

Haha.. Have to be careful, these things are not that easy to get knowledge about! ;)

[@elonkuva]

Taitaa tulla lisää mielenkiintoista katsottavaa! Pitääkös Starlettiin tehdä isompiakin muutoksia, kun voimanlähde vaihtuu?

[@VHTRacing]

Aski pitäs Sadevin mukaan kestää 350Nm eli just soppeli ja perä on kans Wintersin mukaan ok noille tehoille. Saa nähdä eiköhän sinne jotain pikku parannuksia/vahvistuksia tarvi tehdä ainakin takatukivarsiin jne ne on kaikki niin siroa ja kevyttä kuin mahd. ja nyt jo 4AG väännellyt takalattian joka ratkennut myös. Eli pientä hitsuuttelua sinnekin tarvii.

[@briangriffith3985]

you have the power and torque, could stretch the gearing a lil bit

[@VHTRacing]

We change it per track and correct it does not need to be as short as possible anymore. In Trento ran longer now with the V8 than with the 4AGE.

[@LRonkainen]

mahtava valinta, Mikko. ei itellä käyny mielessä ollenkaan. jotenkin luuli että ois ollu 3s mutta kuten sanoit, painava. tehot melkein tuplat ja 10 kiloa keveämpi. onnea uuden moottorin kanssa, toivottavasti pian kuullaan mahtavat äänet

[@VHTRacing]

Kiitos. Juu kyllä eka kävi mielessä stroukata 4AG mutta ei siitä sais täysveristä 2l kuitenkaan iskua liikaa ja porausta liian vähän eikä siitä edes tulis täyttä 2l. Sitten tuo beams tuli hankittua jo yli vuosi sitten, mutta oli iso pettymys kun sai sen vaakoille ja sommitteli miten se autoon tulisi. Paloseinää kun ei saa muuttaa se olis tullut paljon edemmäs ja ylemmäs mitä 4AG ja lisäksi paljon painavampi. Oli jo ton 4AG kans hirvee duuni saada se auton balanssi takas. Se oli ekaks orkkis palkilla aivan liian edessä ja ylhäällä, 2019/2022 muutoksilla siitä tuli lopulta hyvä ja jos sinne nyt laittais beamsin olis se pilalla. Tuo V8 on tosiaan tosi kevyt ja matala ja lyhyt myös. Kun a-pankin kansi on paloseinää vasten on etupää takempana mitä 4AG. Äänet jää nähtäväksi, uskoisin, että ei jätä kylmäksi.

[@sparkster_6087]

with the old 4age having such a long journey in the car, I can't help but wonder what the plan is for that motor in the future?

[@VHTRacing]

rebuild and sell. Feels a bit sad, but can't keep all the old motors. Just sold the 5K which was sitting in a box since 2015. Ended up doing a complete rebuild for it as well before it went to the new owner.

[@guidorollard2944]

but that means also your own reflexes has to be up to date, body and mind fintness. What sort of workout you do?

[@VHTRacing]

Have to admit not much, would need to though. I was really impressed on the race run that i could keep my focus 100% on the driving and "forgot" everything else. In practice it was harder to keep concentration.

[@guidorollard2944]

@@VHTRacing your driving style reminds me of rally influences. Keeping fit and workout may help even more , because you are stepping up the performance of your racecar. It will be much harder. Reflex and mind. As we get older it will be more effort you know that. Good luck

[@janiluopakka3461]

Joskus oli puhetta vieraskansista A lohkossa. Kuinka paljon paremmin tuo virtaa verrattuna entisen moottorin läpikäytyyn kanteen? Vaikka prosentteina, jos et tarkkoja lukuja halua ilmoittaa.

[@VHTRacing]

Jaa-a, mielenkiintoista on se, että molemmissa sekä tuossa omassa 4AGE:ssä, että näissä Busan gen1/2 kansissa on samankokoiset venttiilit 33/27.5. Busassa siis vakiona samat mitä 4AGE viritettynä. Kanava koko on suurempi imupuolella 4AGE isoreikäsessä mitä Busassa. Suuaukolta tuo Busan kanava on sen about 41mm halkaisijaltaan. Kanavan geometria ja palotila on tietysti paljon suorempi tuossa Busan kannessa ja kääntyy pyttyyn vähemmän, mutta siitä ei saa yhtä isoa kanavaa oikein millään portattua mitä 4AGE ei riitä materiaali. Toisaalta sitä ei kyllä tarvi myöskään koska yhden sylinterin tilavuus tässä moottorissa on selkeästi vähemmän mitä 4AGEssä ja ei sen kanavan yhtä iso tarvi edes ollakaan varsinkaan siis tällä 81mm porauksella. Virtauksesta en osaa vielä sanoa mitään, mutta uskoisin, että samaan litratehoon pääsee myös tällä mitä 4AG samalla venttiilikoolla ellei ylikin jos vaan kaikki sattuu ja nokkaa ei tarvi lähellekään yhtä paljoa Busassa mitä 4AGE:ssa.

[@janiluopakka3461]

@@VHTRacing Juu, tuli vain heti mieleen tuosta uudesta moottorista Tomitaku channel missä on laitettu A lohkoon tämä kansi. Aloin miettimään että maksaako vaivaa tehdä jos omasta kannestakin saa tehtyä hyvän. Harmi kun ei japanin kieli taivu että paremmin ymmärtäisin mitä tuolla kanavalla puhutaan. Paljon tuntuu asiaa olevan. Mielenkiintoista on kyllä seurata tämän uuden moottorin valmistumista ja mitä siitä saa tehtyä. Käy sitten Nürburgring vetämässä niin näkee ja voi vertailla miten vanha Starlet kulkee.

[@arjoost]

Any updates with the engine changes?

[@NEVER-LIFT]

Wow that's so awesome, What will happen with the 4age now?

[@VHTRacing]

After a full rebuild it will go to a new owner hopefully soon.

[@DJJAW11]

How would those v8s be for a road car 🤔?.

[@VHTRacing]

If you want to buy a new one and take it to service every 40 hours of running time then why not. Costs >30k€ the engine and service what we’ve understood is starting from >6k€ at RPE in England. They are great engines though, but maybe not for road car. Still seen some photos of road going Radical SR8’s with this engine so… 😎

[@DJJAW11]

​@@VHTRacingMany thanks, as I sorta thought 😏. I used to have a aw11 mr2 4agze!. Ae86 before etc. A 2zzge corolla at the mo. As you considered for your Starlet, the Yaris GR G16E-GTS ,is a good base engine,for all sorts!. I'm a Englander, I did my DNA back along, I have some Baltic DNA too 😎!.

[@atolfree]

Oh no way 😮

[@VHTRacing]

Yes yes 😄

[@chrisbullock9652]

You mentioned your engine making a little over 250hp. Is that flywheel or at the wheel? Love the music it makes. Puts to shame the new F1 garbage. Chris

[@VHTRacing]

1600cc NA with regular pump fuel with non astronomic revs will never make 250hp on the wheels. That’s such hp/l and cylinder pressure that is not achievable. Anyone who claims that are silly. This engine makes already 160hp/l at 10,300 peak power and ~220hp on the wheels.

[@martincoufalik9101]

HOW MUCH FOR OLD ENGINE! SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!

[@VHTRacing]

😂👍