231. Geothermal 101 - How to heat your home with 400% efficiency

[@Schnarf911]

In 2008, faced with needing to replace an aging air-source heat pump, we opted to replace it with a 4-ton geo system. Total cost (after a Maryland state grant) was in the 25K range. Replacing our system with another high efficiency air-source exterior compressor would have been about 15K. In effect, we paid an additional 10K for the geothermal system. The real result: Immediately our electric bill dropped from $450/month average to about $150/month. This thing paid off in just under 3 years! A fantastic decision all the way around. Its been running strong for almost 16 years and its been very reliable. I'm just a regular guy who's saved a ton of money with geothermal!

[@edwingarcia50]

May you share what system you have? I want to purchase a geothermal unit that will last a long time like yours

[@ARLGD]

That Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series sounds like a great option for outdoor enthusiasts and RV lovers! With its massive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology, it can definitely provide reliable power during your adventures. Plus, the smart app control feature is a neat addition. Thanks for sharing this recommendation!

[@masterchinese28]

What would you recommend for someone who is going to build their own property and want geothermal to be part of that? Would the company and builder need to align ahead of time? If so, how far? How much space would need to be dedicatd for the system? (Assume 250sqm house) Is it better to design for a basement space?

[@rsnell22]

Having witnessed a highly engineered vertical well loop system fail miserably, I must recommend the horizontal loop layout. A horizontal loop built for longevity could easily outlast any water source heat pump.

[@rozinant1237]

I was quoted 40K for a system and my average monthly heat bill is $200/mo. The payback would be about 16 years. You also need to pay additional electric charges to run the pumps, additional maintenance on more sophisticated equipment, and interest on a 40 K loan. I don't think Heat pumps are quite there yet.

[@greenenergyfutures]

We hear you. I have considered the same at my cabin. But we think we are very close to a tipping point. Depending on where you live, you can probably access incentives for geo or heat pumps (some from local governments) and others from the federal government. And increasingly Green Loan programs are being launched with low to no interest. There is a very good chance you could do this and not be out of pocket any more than usual.

[@rozinant1237]

@@greenenergyfutures Sounds good, will be very interesting to watch this develop as we move forward.

[@mohebalikalani2115]

Hello, thank you for your explanation, several countries in the world seasonal air temperature and water are above 35 degrees we can use this condition to produce electricity and other products that I mentioned my profile.

[@DeuceDeuceBravo]

How much more electricity does it use compared to an air source heat pump?

[@Schnarf911]

Geothermal heat pumps use about half (or less) electricity to heat and cool the same house. My personal experience here in the States. In fact, these systems make way more heat and cooling than they can use. We divert some of this excess heat into our hot water tank (its called a de-superheater) that essentially makes "free hot water" that saves you even more money.

[@roghax85]

Hello, can I get the voltage and watt need for system cooling only?

[@MooreMatt]

It’s just the $35000-$55000 price tag.

[@timheffernan3577]

We got a quote for a geothermal system that came in extremely high for a new build in NW Montana. The house will be around 3,100 SF on a main level and lower level walkout. What kind of costs range should we expect?

[@nkel6111]

$ tens of thousands of bucks.really !!!

[@Jymmy.Jymymy]

In Edmonton, AB many people do not have air-conditioning. I'm sure the cooling provided by this system was nice for the home owner. However, I live in central IL where almost all builldings have A/C. Would someone in my climate supplement the cooling of a geothermal hydronic system designed for floor-heat in the winter with a forced air A/C or window units?

[@joebot9309]

Alberta 100 percent has air conditioning in every home, car and business lol

[@aaronpops4108]

@@joebot9309 Not nearly every home has a/c. sincerely - An Edmontonian in a 1950 house.

[@samiisufi6015]

How do you size geothermal system ?

[@mrwilly41]

What would it roughly cost to replace a thee ton pond loop system? Mine is about 20 years old, forced air. Can you use the current in ground to pond lines and fuse it into the new system?

[@MUDASIRAHMADBHAT-l7l]

I want to buy it... Where can i get it

[@jacopochiapparino]

@greenenergyfutures do you have any contacts within your network operating in Europe and especially in the Nordics (Finland)? We’re planning to start a retrofit project on a 1970’s house, however here the access to companies specialised in this field is very difficult 😞

[@greenenergyfutures]

So sorry we are not aware of suppliers in that part of the world. And yes it's the old chicken and egg thing. There are not enough suppliers and not enough good information out there. Personally I have been researching air source heat pumps. I think the technology is mature enough now, but getting good, solid information and finding a supplier is still a challenge.

[@firefox39693]

Can they also do a pond-loop set up for people who own property on a pond, lake, or river? Are there local or provincial laws that perhaps forbid that? I'd love to find out.

[@greenenergyfutures]

Yes.

[@envirotechgeothermal7185]

Ponds yes. Lakes are more challenging due to regs. Give us a call to discuss further.

[@josoffat7649]

Water loops are actually more efficient too 👍

[@josoffat7649]

@@envirotechgeothermal7185 oh sherwood park, then you know that geothermal doesn't cut it for the winter. How much do your units run on auxiliary heat???

[@envirotechgeothermal7185]

@@josoffat7649 Hi Jo, we have several systems throughout Alberta and they work very well. They just need to be designed properly, which is why we design to 100%. Auxillary heat is not required when designed properly.

[@pa7422]

I have had a Geo system in service since 2008, never again would I buy this Tech. After -15C you need either wood or electric or both back up heat. On top of that the thing is always broken, I and the company have spent thousands repairing this thing. What’s the point then?

[@jakekostogiannis]

A lot of people don’t know how to work on it either.

[@danielcarter2375]

Hi guys - hope everyone is doing well 1st and foremost! I have a very certain couple of questions; 1. Do people' still have to pay their Water bill for the water to heat up via 'Air-to-Water' heating pump? Or do they get free water supply as part of the package? 2. I understand this Geothermal heating can be used for underground (interior & exterior) heating, but can it be used for 'undersoil heating' like grass for our front/back Garden lawn? If not - no worries!

[@envirotechgeothermal7185]

Hi Daniel, a water utility bill is separate from the other utility bills such as electricity, or natural gas for those that are connected. Depending on the location, heating the ground would require a significant heating load. Some companies in Quebec use geothermal heating for their vineyard operations. We've never had a specific request to heat the ground.

[@danielcarter2375]

@@envirotechgeothermal7185 Thankyou for answering my question - appreciate your time to do that for me. The answer you've answered for me has given me a better understanding of this incredible, and exciting system that could be our future. Many thanks!

[@mlionea]

Is the water heated to comfortable temperature? What is the cost of installation?

[@nkel6111]

air comes out for heat a bit close to 75-80 degrees. sorta like a draft. had ours for 6 years. no big surprises, but nothing lasts forever. farmland is the loop.......but i fear a leak 1 day

[@kaf2303]

How much heat could you get out of a 100 meter deep 8” dia. Unused water well with a static water level of 1 meters below the top?

[@envirotechgeothermal7185]

Hi Kurt, we can strip heat out of 0 C water, the well requires a certain amount of flow to operate a geothermal system.

[@offgridwanabe]

I need 3 degrees to keep from freezing in the heat exchanger @@envirotechgeothermal7185

[@nkel6111]

our loop is but a 5-7 foot deep dig in dirt, loam probably and ....... travelling 40 + 120 + 30 yards 1 way for 190 yards x 2= 380 yards for total run.

[@ezosoro]

Can it heat hot water while cooling the home as well?

[@chemlearner2721]

interesting question. as an hvac guy I'll try to give an answer. this technology moves heat one way or another. from ground to room or from room to ground. or from ground to hot water tank or back (you wouldn't want to but you could). thought valves I think it would do one or the other, hot water stays surprisingly hot for surpringly long so it can focus on cooling you and cycling back. I think?

[@Symbolizer21]

Heat pump water heaters are slow, generally you'd get a hybrid style where the heat pump uses very high efficiency to maintain water temps throughout the day and during low demand and during high demand, like long showers, it would switch to traditional elements to get the speed you expect from a water heater. If you get a hybrid heat pump water heater the heat pump dumps cold air in the utility room it's in. Then if it's hot out it's helping the AC cool the home. If it's cold out the home heating is generating the heat to replace the heat the water heater took from the air. In theory it works very well and without the complexity of interconnecting the 2 systems

[@jothamcharles5412]

What about boring in extremely hard ground??? Where i live, it's basically bedrock after 3 feet.

[@greenenergyfutures]

Great question, I would assume that would be problematic. Anybody else?

[@envirotechgeothermal7185]

@@greenenergyfutures There are drilling rigs capable of drilling bedrock. AND btw, rock is a great conductor!

[@HuShi-bg4yo]

铜管设备模具了解一下

[@graphguy]

sounds great... until your vertical system fails and it will.

[@emptysoul5057]

I want to be rich so bad I want to do this yesterday if it works in Alberta it'll work in high plains of Colorado where I'm at

[@KJSvitko]

An energy efficient home or business is more comfortable and saves money in the long run. Solar energy on your roof combined with battery storage can make people more independent from the grid and natural gas supplies. Add solar and supplemental electric heating, infrared heating or a heat pump for home or business heating and cooling All big box stores and manufacturing sites can support solar energy on their roofs or solar canopies on their parking lots. Added insulation, double or triple glaze windows, energy efficient doors, energy efficient heating and cooling systems, energy efficient appliances, LED lighting, smart thermostats, solar panels combined with battery storage and a electric vehicle charger in the garage or car park. People are too focused on the short term costs and miss out on long term savings and comfort. Blower door testing and air sealing are under appreciated tools.Even if you have money to burn you should not waste it. Climate Change will impact everyone. Leave a better future for your children and grandchildren. Join in and speak up for the future of the planet

[@greenenergyfutures]

We are aware of a 175 unit complex built in Canada by the Salvation Army that cost just 4% more than code, but thanks to geothermal heating and cooling and solar the Army will save $240,000 Cdn/month on utilities. Oh and they will produce few emissions.

[@KJSvitko]

@@greenenergyfutures Geothermal is a good option. It needs to become more common and more available.

[@imtheonevanhalen1557]

Geothermal has gotten a severely bad reputation because of installations like this. I have two water source heat pumps (Geothermal...) that use well water. If you already have a water well, just plumb it into the heat pump.......no gigantic bore holes or complex piping.....just turn it on, and reap the rewards.

[@vivalaleta]

We hope to purchase a place at a low enough price that we can afford this sort of heating.

[@greenenergyfutures]

It isn’t cheap, but it’s cheaper in the long run. Check out federal Greener Homes loans and programs.

[@vivalaleta]

@@greenenergyfutures Thanks. Can this digging be done in a cold climate like Minnesota?

[@greenenergyfutures]

@@vivalaleta Absolutely. I live in the most northerly large city in North America (Edmonton) and these systems make even more sense here because air source heat pumps have to deal with -30 temperatures. I recorded -38C on my thermometer in December.

[@josoffat7649]

It's not cheaper, it's taxpayer dollars to subsidize. We all pay for this crap whether we like it or not.

[@josoffat7649]

@@greenenergyfutures 🤣 I was an installer in Edmonton and this is incorrect.Too cold for too long, runs on auxilary heat lots (electric heater inside unit.) Very expensive to run, consumes a lot of power. Gas was cheaper until Trudeau tripled the carbon tax...

[@BogdanDumiter]

I'm getting on mine even a 700 percent efficiency.

[@questfortruth9239]

10 to 20 years😮

[@offgridwanabe]

Edmonton the home of the fossil fuel junkies goes geothermal too funny, for years they have argued it will not work in Edmonton as it is just too cold. My 20 year old water furnace in Muskoka Ontario begs to differ lol.

[@mjoelnir1899]

One gets slowly tired how so called experts confuse geothermal and ground source based heat source. Geothermal means tapping the heat radiating from the earth core. Ground sourced uses the constant heat you find at rather shallow bore holes. For geothermal you usually, apart where you find geothermal near the surface, have to go deep. In a geothermal system you are looking for water temperatures above 50° C, more likely 100°and above.

[@greenenergyfutures]

True enough, but years ago we did a Google Trends analysis of geoexchange versus geothermal and learned nobody would find your post if you called it geoexchange so we often say something like geothermal AKA geoexchange or ground source heat pumps. Things are changing, but geothermal is searched for far more often and what people are really thinking about is geoexchange. In Canada there are a few pilot "geothermal projects" and more than 100k ground source heat pump systems.

[@nkel6111]

People...I wouldn't trust someone who skirts the truth. what isn't mentioned is the electricity demanded n supplemental heater. we have a 220 volt unit might be good, but needs tweaking this type of system. no need to lie installer.

[@vangcruz4442]

Wow!......400% efficiency?....My monthly bill is $350.00. So 400% efficiency mean the Utility Company is sending me $1,500.00 Dollars every month? 😮😮😮

[@doronbracha3902]

Interesting but not informative enough, it does not explain how it works. This Rinnai video explains, starting around 2:30 minutes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j4C0pZmkdrGfpMU

[@greenenergyfutures]

The temperature rises about 30 degrees C per km. So at 4 km it’s 120C or so. They target that or higher. See our blog at greenenergyfutures.ca

[@thevikingwolfpack836]

I've got a great idea that would let them better that system but I'd want 1% of earn profits from my idea

[@SophiaBennett-r7f]

I was quoted 40K for a system and my average monthly heat bill is $200/mo. The payback would be about 16 years. You also need to pay additional electric charges to run the pumps, additional maintenance on more sophisticated equipment, and interest on a 40 K loan. I don't think Heat pumps are quite there yet.

[@livedreamsg]

Is that before or after the Residential Clean Energy Tax 30% tax credit? if it's before, it'd bring it down to 11.6 years.

[@vangcruz4442]

Wow!......400% efficiency?....My monthly bill is $350.00. So 400% efficiency mean the Utility Company is sending me $1,500.00 Dollars every month? 😮😮😮

[@vangcruz4442]

Wow!......400% efficiency?....My monthly bill is $350.00. So 400% efficiency mean the Utility Company is sending me $1,500.00 Dollars every month? 😮😮😮

[@Schnarf911]

My electric bill went from $450/month to under $150/month. Its super efficient. 16 years personal experience.

[@canadianthought]

350 dollars divided by 4 would be 88.50.

[@vangcruz4442]

Wow!......400% efficiency?....My monthly bill is $350.00. So 400% efficiency mean the Utility Company is sending me $1,500.00 Dollars every month? 😮😮😮

[@masterchinese28]

If that was the case there would be a long line of people getting geothermal! From what I understand, it means that you get $5 worth of heating/cooling for the price of $1. i.e. you be paying 400% more if you were using a traditional system.

[@robertdalga128]

400% is very misleading in my opinion. Heat pumps whether air or ground source ulitize compressors which run on electricity and not just a little electricity. Most run on 240v / 30 amps minimum. Your electric bill will reflect it. Natural gas forced air is way cheaper and more comfortable to heat your home. However with that being said geothermal heat pumps do shine when it comes to cooling.