243 Win. 20" vs 22". Velocity Difference. Sierra 80gn. and 100gn. Tested.

[@BB-xp4pz]

Mr, Strohnmeyer, I have had great results with Barnes 80 grain ttsx with h4350 in my .243 winchester. I’m getting excellent speed. I’m also using Winchester brass and Winchester primers.. I am getting 1/2 groups from a 700 Remington ADL bone stock with a Leupold scope. The rifle was given to me many years ago and has mostly sat in my safe for the majority of the time. Loading many years and many calibers.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Glad you have good success with your reloading regime. Best wishes for your continued shooting endeavors.

[@James-w6x9v]

Me too same load.

[@LCdonkeyshow]

Great comparison. Been hammering elk with my .243 for decades using 85 grain Nosler partition at @3250. Of course, shot placement is everything and 300 yards is about the furthest I've taken, but I've never recovered a bullet. Always explodes right through everything and leaves a withering wound channel. The ubiquitous. 243 is a fine round for deer and elk in the right hands.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Glad that combination works well for you. Thanks for your comment here

[@richardt.4224]

That was an interesting video and thank you for sharing it with us. 243 Win is my calibre of choice, but I don't change bullets, I like to use the same across the animals I hunt. I shoot wallabies and goats out to 600yds, pigs and deer to 400yds without a problem. Barral length will make a difference, as does the bullet weight. Something that you did NOT mention and which makes a big difference is the barrel twist. My rifle has a 1 in 10 twist and when I started researching and ladder testing what load worked for me, I found anything over 100grns got no improvement. I used to use a chronograph like yours but because I also tried muzzle brakes and suppressors, I changed to a shoot through kind. Another reason I changed chronographs is because having something strapped to the barrel will change the harmonics of the barrel and thus its accuracy!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

You must be from Australia. Yes, the classic .243 had a 1/9.25 or a 1/10 twist and designed for bullet weights under 100gns. I found the best all around weights to be 80-95 grain above 3,000fps. Thanks for watching.

[@richardt.4224]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 No I'm NOT from Australia, but I have lived there for five years. I found the Hornady 90grn ELD-X or M pushed at 3150fps gives me sub 1inch groups at 100yds. I'm a hunter, not a gong or paper puncher, although to keep sharp I have to sometimes.

[@usafret4709]

Dave, I love your analytical approach and looking at cause and effect. I will be following you on this process. Thank you also for the shout out to those we have lost. God bless.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Never forget those whose who gave all and the ongoing grief of family Gold Star members.

[@lzxray6781]

Dave, I really enjoy your videos. Your fair and honest with your numbers. You seem to be a man of integrity and not afraid to be accountable for your actions. God Bless you sir. From Southern Oklahoma.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thank You for the very kind words and for watching.

[@nmelkhunter1]

My cousin’s daughter is getting ready to go on her first pronghorn hunt and will be using a 243 shooting Sierra Pro Hunters. The rifle is a Model 700 ADL that has a Leupold fixed 4X power scope. She is an awesome shot with that old school setup!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Best wishes for a successful hunt.

[@kennyw6932]

I thoroughly enjoyed your video on the barrel length comparisons. There are so many variables that enter into such an undertaking, powder, primer, brass, it could take a lifetime to evaluate all possibilities. Good luck with your endeavors with the rifles.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@francoismartens171]

Thank you Sir. I farm in South Africa. I also want to pay my respects for all the USA soldiers that were killed. Here in South Africa we white farmers are being murdered at an alarming rate. All of us are of Dutch German and French stock. Thank you for your informative video . Regards

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thank You. Sorry to hear of your countries current conflicts. I know so little about your country except through history lessons by way of Boer Wars, Zulu uprising, Mandela, to your current parliamentary difficulties. But I am glad you are indeed a South African patriot, who loves his land, province and country.

[@Me2Lancer]

Thanks for the comparisons. God bless those you have lost on this Memorial Day 2023.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@mikecollins8241]

Very interesting results... I really like your straightforward approach to testing, and letting the numbers tell the story.. Now I need to go out and test for myself: I have 2, 243's as well, a NEF Handi Rifle (with 20" 1:10 barrel) and a Savage Predator (with a 24" 1:9:25 twist). I have a bunch of hand loads ready to go, and now need to see for myself what happens with these two rifles! If I can get to it soon enough, I'll try and respond with my results.... I may even try and procure some of the same components you used, and try your loads in my rifles (after working up to insure they are safe).

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Best wishes for you and your rifles results. Thanks for watching.

[@Aaron-mn8gw]

Great video Dave! I love the .243 Win for deer sized game. I have one in a Ruger American compact with a 1:9" twist and 18" barrel. I shoot 85gr Trophy copper out of it which did well on a northern whitetail at 218yds. I get about 1.5" groups on average. I'll edit and post the velocity next time I take it out if ppl are interested to know.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment here and for watching.

[@1AAbraham]

Aaron, what velocities are you getting from your 18" barrel? Have you measured velocity on a heavier 95-100 grain bullet?

[@wendellbell6164]

Thanks for the video. I have a remington 700 243 etronx shooting factory 90 gr nosler ballistic tips , velocity 3120 from a 26" barrel. Electronic primers

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Dave. Good video. Nice fair comparison. And nice shooting. Thanks for sharing. Thanks to the sacrifices of our military for this free country. Take care.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks Bobcat.

[@Mikejohnson-wr2hd]

Very interesting, Dave. I have found something similar on 2 Remington 280s that I own. A ruger model 77 and a Remington 700. Both have 22 inch barrels but the Remington 700 is 100 fps faster than the Ruger with the same 150 grain Nosler loads. I guess some barrels are just faster than others.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes, there could be many reasons why the velocity on the Rem. 700 is slower than expected. Fortunately though it is an accurate rifle. Thanks for watching.

[@winstonskafte5505]

As much to do with chamber reaming as anything I have a remington here and they ream it out to max tolerance plus so it expands more in chamber and produces less pressure .

[@PASS55555]

Good data thanks so much

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and commenting here.

[@ejsocci2630]

Another great video, thanks

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and for your comment here.

[@baobo67]

Thank you Dave. Very well done. I wondered and now I know, Cheers from Australia

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching and for your comment here.

[@MrBoo1963]

Sure wish I lived closer to you! I love shooting! But then I am a 2-War Veteran. WOW the 80's are doing great! The 100's are also doing great! I still want your powder! :)

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your service! Twice.

[@MrBoo1963]

Thank you sir! And my 2-Bronze Stars thank you too!@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009

[@clintonlayne9253]

Great Presentation Dave. Great Shooting. Dave your a true professional. I have learned a lot from watching you Videos.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for the kind words and for watching

[@caterpillar1693]

Now you need a either a Weatherby vanguard sporter 243 win. with 24" or a MarkV with 24" barrel

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I did have a 24" Vanguard sporter. It didn't provide the consistancy from shot to shot that I look for. Thanks for watching.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

That is really interesting to see. I have a Remington 600 Mohawk re barrelled with a 20" Shilen barrel chambered in 250 Savage. I shoot a 80 gn TTSX, and a 87 gn Sierra match for the range. My 80 gn numbers are basically identical to yours. I find it perfect for coy-wolves to white tail.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment here and for watching.

[@Rico11b]

Very puzzling that the Rem barrel is 2 inches longer yet it produced slower velocities. Maybe it was just a tighter bore, but I was expecting the velocity to be a touch higher, not lower.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Yes, that was my discovery as well. Just goes to prove that no two rifles are alike. Thanks for watching.

[@ejsocci2630]

I really enjoy your videos,thank s

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your kind words here.

[@shawnjackson5733]

Barrel length is not all that matters to pick up velocity. At what length dose the powder reach its max pressure? After that the bullet will only slow down. Also the twist rate matters. the more rpm's the bullet turns will reduce the powders ability to produce higher velocity. And if you get really scientific barrel contours combination with length could create negative barrel harmonics that could cause more friction and slow down the bullet. The list goes on and on about things that impact bullet velocity. But I like the video.👍

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for your comment and for watching.

[@litlczer9865]

Excellent video👍

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Interesting. I too would expect more velocity from the 22". I am thinking 25-50fps more. Thank you.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@JackFrostTheDeerHunter]

love the video...quick question. Does POI change when you take chrono off the rifle?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Not always, but sometimes yes by about 1-2 inches at 100 yards depending on caliber/cartridge. Usually a lower impact. studio.kzbin.infogeFF0I00UFw/edit

[@richardkut3976]

Thank you.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Your welcome.

[@VG-913]

Other than some sort of QC issue that could be robbing that gun of performance since remington qc is absolutely terrible in the last 20 years, perhaps it's that you're using a faster burning powder where the powder us all burned and maximized in that 20" gun where the 22" will either be the same or even slower since there's friction on the bullet but no more combustion propelling the round faster? Just a thought?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

In later videos, I was able to achieve my desired velocities. Thanks for your comment here and for watching.

[@callumhepworth-smith6376]

Hi Mr. Strohmeyer, The difference between a fast and slow barrel may have something to with age. A fast barrel has been "shot in" using the shoot and clean process in order to get a good "shine" inside the barrel after its initial construction and will settle at aprox x200 rnds A slow barrel is a barrel that HAS NOT has this process and still has engineering burrs in the barrel, which will eventually clear but will take longer without a cleaning regime. If your Remmy is quite new it could explain its lower speeds. Just a thought as is have done this recently on my 243 when i had it re-barrelled ... now pushing Barnes LRX @ 3300 FPS I am also a veteren and liked your kind words at then end 😘 Kind regards, Callum (UK)

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

You could be right about barrel differences. Thanks for your service and for your comments here.

[@sherlockbonez]

I had a 20" 243 before. My ears cant take it.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Thanks for watching.

[@patrickrodriguez320]

Everyone talks about advancement in bullet technology. I wish powder advanced better for short barrels

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

That may happen soon. Most powder testing by the Bullet and Powder maker manuals are tested in 24" barrels unless otherwise stated. Short barreled rifles (but not carbines) are a relatively new phenomena due to the rise in interest and use of suppressors.

[@patrickrodriguez320]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 a lot of people also just like compact rifles for their efficiency. A short action rifle with a 20" barrel is just efficient when you're hiking in the mountains. Even better if we could push the envelope on the velocity

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@patrickrodriguez320 Yes, shorter or lighter rifles seem to be what some hikers prefer. I've spent my whole life trekking high mountain hunts and still prefer the long barrels, so no worries about velocity variances. But it is more important to use what ever rifle (matched to the game) that you shoot the best and have complete confidence with. Best wishes on your future hunts.

[@johnclifford1911]

It would have been interesting to know your powder choice. I would bet that it's a faster burning powder and well-suited for the Vanguard's 20" barrel, but the pressure has started to decrease after 20", signaled by the lower velocities and increased SDs. I know this is a video, but you need more than 1 sample of three shots to be confident in your statistics... a dozen shots per load would be the minimum. I assume you've seen the same relative results several times. Try a slightly slower burning powder in the 700. You know you've gone too slow when you can't get more velocity with a max load.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Win 760. Sample size is the same for my 20" 22" and two 24" rifles and all measured with a chronograph for consistency. Only the 700 does not come close to published velocities. Thanks for your input here.

[@stephendye4602]

Odds are that the chamber throat is longer giving the bullets more room to move resulting in lower pressure and velocity

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Possibly true. But I was able to attain the stated book velocities minus 50fps for a 22" barrel by changing powder. See my .243 Playlist if interested. kzbin.info/aero/PLXqfgzMyk7eFEiKxP54iu73Oxbpbz_I-X

[@stephendye4602]

Yes I agree but what happened by changing powder you changed the pressure curve did it also change velocity in the shorter barrel

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@stephendye4602 Yes, the Velocity came inline with book listed and expected velocities with the slower magnum burn rate powders tested, except h-4831 that was still lower velocity.

[@PC-uh6hk]

Was the rifling twist the same in both rifles? You may be right that you'll have to work up a different load for the new one. I've been reloading my ammo since the 1970s but I haven't had two rifles in the same caliber.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Weatherby twist 1-10. Remington twist 1-9.25. I have loaded for and owned 4 .243's and usually the loads that work in one work well in the other. The only speed variable is related to barrel length. Thanks for watching.

[@fredthompson1279]

Interesting how close both guns are in POI and velocity with the same loads. May I ask what the powder and charge weights are?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

80 grain Sierra 43.5 - Win. 760. 100 grain Sierra 43.5 - Rel. 23. You should never duplicate someone else's loads. As always use a load manual and go by their start to max load data. Thanks for watching.

[@fredthompson1279]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Thanks for the reply Dave. You are absolutely correct. I was just asking out of curiosity. I get great results with similar bullets in my .243 using Varget.

[@dumpsterchicken6287]

Great video. New subscriber here. I have a Ruger American 243. What is a good chronagraph to get, and how far away from the barrel do you place it? Thank you.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I use a Magnetospeed Sporter.. Attaches to the barrel for quick set up and is accurate. Easy and clear instruction are included. Thanks for watching.

[@1AAbraham]

2024 updated answer: I highly recommend the Garmin Xero C1. It is simple, reliable, and accurate. More important to the comparison here, it does not attach to the barrel, so it does not shift POI.

[@tripplebeards3427]

You ever slug the barrel to see if it’s out of spec and over bored? I cast bullets so I slug most my barrels. My 35 whelen 7600 is .358 and my 7600 35 rem and 336 rem slug at .357. My whelen doesn’t group the greatest and I would assume it’s because it over bore’d. Remington told me it wasn’t out of spec at .358. I would assume the larger bore also has gas cutting, lower pressures, and poor accuracy with the .358 jacketed bullets. Wondering is that's the issue with the slow velocity on yours as well.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Interesting testing procedures that you have done with your rifles. But no I have not slugged a barrel. My primary tests are first to test various bullet and powder combinations for precision ie; velocity/ low SD's/ low ES. Then focus on acceptable point of aim and point of impact that is repeatable. Then calculate trajectory for MPBR. In later videos on this model 700 I was able to obtain good velocity just through a powder change. Thanks for your experience sharing here.

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 if didn't shoot cast bullets through them I would have never slugged the barrels to find out measurements. I size around .0025" over slugged barrel diameter for best accuracy in my 35's.

[@randym4077]

What do you think the reason is for not gaining velocity? A slightly wider bore? A longer throat letting a tiny bit of pressure escape?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I suspect its the faster twist of 1- 9.25 compared to a 1-10 for most 243's. This maybe normal for just this rifle and it is very accurate. More testing is likely to occur. Thanks for watching.

[@DadWil]

Interesting results ... I would not have predicted this... Are the twist rates on the barrels the same?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

No, the Weatherby is 1/10 and the Remington is 1/9.25

[@TechnikMeister2]

24" is even better. Thats what Winchester designed it for.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Agreed. But these days most rifle manufacturers go for shorter barrels.

[@Rippinsmallies]

Just got a Bergara B14 Sierra in 22-250 with a 20 inch barrel. I hope its accurate.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Best wishes for you and your new rifle.

[@bryantitus6634]

I know you are more of a handloader by default, but I'd love to see the Hornady Custom Lite loads tested. And perhaps load data it'd take to duplicate them if that's more up your alley. My daughter and wife are both very recoil sensitive and I'd love to see how they actually perform in real world rifles. Not just manufacture claims.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

I have never shot a reduced load...Your suggestion would be interesting, maybe in the future. Best regards for your hunting endeavors.

[@bryantitus6634]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 personally I have very little if any use for a light load. I was hoping to be able to buy off the shelf training loads like the Hornady custom lite 243 loads for the wife and kids and work them up to full power loads that way. Personally I feel like to get proper skill with a center-fire rifle, you need to be using said rifle. Sure, rimfires are good for basics but it is not the same. I'd rather they gain confidence in the gun they will be hunting with. It comes loaded with 87gr SST rated at 2800. I have concerns that they call it an SST, but it's really just a downloaded 87gr V-max, which would change it's expansion characteristics to a degree. I just have concerns that like most other standard loadings in .243, factory loads tend to be a bit soft compared to factory claims.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@bryantitus6634 That 80-87 grain will have significantly lower recoil @2,800 fps. Your planning is sound for your daughter and wife to gain confidence and not anticipate recoil.

[@TommyboyGTP]

I'm thinking the 700 might have a tighter bore resulting in more drag slowing the bullets down

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

You might be right. More testing ahead.

[@racrx728]

More likely the opposite, the bore is less tight, resulting in slower pressure build and lower velocity. Could also be a longer throat on the 700 chamber doing the same thing. Odds are the 700 just needs more powder and may still get the higher velocity expected.

[@Charles_ONeal]

I have been pondering the slow velocity and only come up with the new one has an oversized chamber, the groove diameter is over bored or the powder is weak for some reason. This experiment should tell you if the problem is ammo or chronograph.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Some rifles allow over max load development. This maybe the case.

[@Charles_ONeal]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I would think that if a 700 chambered in 6mm Creedmoor can safely handle 62,000 psi then so should one in .243 Win.

[@shawnkautz8508]

Chamber bore dimensions are definitely a determining factor on velocity.

[@johnh4957]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 Looking forward to your further testing or is it even worthwhile using time/energy or just go straight into new load development , too bad same ammo can't be used in similar guns, although you probably would keep ammo separate anyway due to fireformed slight chamber differences or does that matter with a bolt gun(semi-autos like AR style need cases resized back to SAAMI spec for trouble free chambering ?) I haven't reloaded rifle yet so I might be speaking nonsense, that's why I learn so much from your videos!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@johnh4957 Barrels are just a tube for launching a projectile and are generally consistent for the life of the barrel, but there can be abnormalities. Cartridges, components and dimensions are a true variable. Together at ignition and while the bullet is in the barrel make up a broad set of circumstances called "Internal Ballistics" , this is where problem solving starts.

[@JPtogether-fg5nm]

How does one get lower velocities with a longer barrel? hahaha never heard of that in 55 years(out of 78). obviously the barrels are switched! thanks for the video!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

That question is exactly why I've done so much testing on the 700. Even on max loads the velocity is slower than expected.

[@JPtogether-fg5nm]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 have you slugged the barrel to measure it?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@JPtogether-fg5nm No I have not. The chamber tolerances on this rile are a little more generous. Several people have expressed lower velocity on their older 700's and suggested it's just a "Slow barrel" . I don't necessarily agree with that but the accuracy is excellent so I am satisfied with increasing the powder charge or finding a more suitable powder. (Which I have done.)

[@1AAbraham]

​@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 You are obviously an experienced reloader. For the benefit of others that read this, I caution not simply "increasing the powder charge" for slow barrels. A reason exists, such as fractionaly tighter groove pattern. It could result in dangerous pressures.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@1AAbraham Agreed. Thanks for adding your comment here.

[@markr831]

Slow barrel, that’s why. Different steel, bore finish, dimensions, chamber and everything. Why don’t you buy into the slower barrel idea?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Your experiences maybe different and that is OK. I believe it is usually more ammo related. Because of the replicated load data from each Bullet manufacturers manuals, each source may published different velocity numbers from powder to powder and charge weight to charge weight , both in their listed results and on my personal shooting tests. But generally my personal results per same load are close using different rifles. It is generally accepted longer barrels give higher velocity and that is what I expected here. That being said you may want to check out my later test videos on the Rem. 700, whereby just changing powder/bullet combos did finally match the velocity to the book test loads. Thanks for your question and for watching.

[@coyotiess]

My Dads dad was in world war 1 my dad was in world war 2 and I was in VietNam!

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

A definite family of Patriots! Thanks for your service.

[@misterlewgee8874]

Maybe the 700bdl is still breaking in and speeding up... Maybe ..

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Could be that too. Thanks for watching.

[@misterlewgee8874]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 I guess the twist rates are the same.

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

@@misterlewgee8874 Weatherby is a 1-10 twist. Remington 1-9.25

[@misterlewgee8874]

@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 faster twist might slow bullet down..so I heard...

[@johnywolfs104]

So the shorter barrel gives a faster bullet?

[@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009]

Only in this case with my Rem. 700. Still trying to figure why this rifle produces slower velocity with the same loads. But not a big deal really because it is a very accurate rifle indeed.