2600MC DUO Guides With Narrowband Filters

Many skeptics have been quick to voice their doubts about this camera. Often they cite the failure of the much older SBIG cameras from 2003. However the future seams to have a place for this kind of camera and configuration. My own first time testing this was filled with a lot of surprise and delight that this tech is able to work now given just how sensitive new sensors are. I know the Qe of sensors has almost quadrupled since 2003 so on that metric alone it should, in a lot of ways, not be a surprise at all. Cue the music but if others do not or are not already working on similar cameras they are going to miss out on an important new segment of camera hardware. I myself do not like OSC cameras but I love the simplicity of this system and champion it ease of use because I know it will get more people into the hobby.
Here is the scope I used.
www.svbony.com/sv550-apo-refr...

[@Zero_Point_Energy1]

Great approach for this video - the toughest conditions (within reason). Thanks! Now if the one I ordered in April would just ship…

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

You will like it. Its zwo next generation in every way

[@Mrcloc]

Kudos. I sent this idea to Svbony about a year ago. I take photos of small planetary nebula, and I'm on a tight budget, so flexure is a major issue for me. If you want a tough target for guiding, try NGC 7009. It's really bright, meaning your exposures can be short enough to not need guiding, but as an exercise, it would be interesting to try. So far it's been my most challenging target and I'm reluctant to try it again (although I should). I shoot with an ASI178MM, and shot mine with a 5" MCT at f/12.3 (now I use an f/6 8" Newt). Despite being a bright target, you can shoot some short exposures and some long to get as much detail as possible. Not doing HDR on it makes life really difficult.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

That targets tuff because it is so stinking small. Make me wish our atmosphere was thinner. I think you would almost have to resort to some kind of lucky imaging where you would throw out 90% of your data. Hope you can give it a go again though.

[@Mrcloc]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel Yes, you end up throwing away a lot indeed. There are also almost no guide stars near it.

[@chongzhiqiu2257]

Thanks for the review. Only the imagining sensor is cooled right? not the guiding sensor. If guiding the whole session, will the heat from the guiding sensor be a problem, the upper half of the imaging sensor is exposed to a higher temperature.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Yes, correct or 90% sure :) ill have to check though with zwo. If i can do a tear down on this i will but have to see if they will let me.

[@dubbleOHnegative]

Here’s a question for you. I have a canon nifty fifty mm lens that I want to throw on a dedicated Astro cam. I’ve seen people using these on an asi2600 on astrobin. Do you think the duo would work to guide on it? Or is that sucker just way too wide to get any decent results out of it?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

That would work. You could use a fairly long exposure too. Be careful though of what filter you use. You might wan to stick with a 8nm to 10nm filter. Going narrower might give you weird color affect around the edges because of the angle of the light coming from the lens. With my Olympus Lenses I have never had this issue but that is became they have always made lenses the direct the light straight at the sensor.

[@AstroSchnitzel]

I am deciding between getting this duo or getting the regular 2600mc pro. I have a space cat 51 setup that has the imaging circle for it. I saw Simon’s review on the duo with different filters. He was able to get great guiding on his widefield setup using the L Ultimate filter! That’s 3nm! I was impressed. What do you think?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

If you have a Redcat I would spring for the duo.

[@bbasiaga]

Is thr guide cam color or mono? Can you confirm the image circle size necessary to cover the guide cam? I'm thinking my 2" and m48 fr/ff means I can't use this.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Guid camera is mono and it is not cooled. Would actually be good if it was thought I think. Guid cameras should always be mono. There is a 9x9 pixel blur on OSC cameras and they also gather 2/3 less light. The vignette on that will be to strong for a large imaging sensor but the guid camera does not need perfectly shaped star nor does it care about vignette. So it will probably work. I'll be testing this soon on a 2in image circle of my newt soon. Last night I spent a lot of hours testing a tinny 61mm Sharpstar on it. That will all be in my final report.

[@gioelegobbo1080]

thanks for the review. I have already ordered the duo model. I have a Newton 200/1000 and l-extreme filter. Do you think I will have driving problems?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Yes it will. I have a similar newton with same specs I'll test this on. I think the only thing that might limit is the coma corrector's cast image circle. We shall see. Newts are fast though so I am betting it will work.

[@gioelegobbo1080]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel Thanks I will wait for your video

[@gamingwithstand6886]

How long is that scope in terms of 35mm or M43. I don't know a lot about this stuff.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

In astrophotography we never consider crop factor. You will just confuse yourself. This scope has a 680mm FL with the focal reducer. It's 854mm without the reducer. Though I have not actually measured mine yet. They are usually a little different each scope.

[@simmias9397]

Hey Ben, so I have the 503 80mm. Am looking, as Ive told you in another vid, at the new 294. But looking at the sampling ratio I’m a bit worried. That combo would put me at 2.13 for the ratio…which isn’t horrible. But I’m worried about the undersampling really staining my details. I’d be willing to look at the 533 platforms as it would drop the ratio to 1.7. A little help/advice from someone who been shooting Astro a while would be much appreciated. Thanks

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

My advice is to not worry about it. Sampling is something you worry about when your are spending more then $10,000 on a setup. Being oversampled will just mean you can image more often.

[@simmias9397]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel thanks, I’ll go with the new 294 for a bit larger FOV.

[@marcusa3177]

Interesting; so basically I shouldn't be bothered with really thin high clouds when I'm going for narrowband? What I'm also interested in is if that focal reducer would work with the smaller SV550. I know it's using the same M63 thread, but I'm not sure if the optical formula is the same/similar. It'd be nice to have one scope because goshdarn I'm tired of swapping out tubes depending on the target I want

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

This smoke is anything but high altitude. It's at ground level for sure. I can even see it in my yard looking at the trees. I was only testing the guiding for this. I actually never even did any imaging just because it was such a terrible sky. Now I will say though that Ha and Sii filters will cut through some haze. So if you have nights that are less transparent I would save those two filters for those and use your Oiii for the best nights. Not sure about the focal reducer either. It's a different f ratio scope and focal length. Might not work very well.

[@marcusa3177]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel so basically treat thin high clouds as moonlight and go for Ha and Sii exclusively for those nights. Got it. And hope you guys are masking up there; you probably know better than me (being ex-military) how bad the effects of PM2.5 particles in your lungs can be. Noted re focal reducer; I know the one from the SV503 can fit the 2in eyepiece slot but I'm not a fan of compression rings in general =| IDK, maybe I can find a M63-male 2in thread adapter? Let's see what Svbony does I guess

[@Kata_Mae]

I remember you saying that for guiding having the stars a bit out of focus was better, makes sense, but then isn't bining going against it, I mean as long as you get enough stars ?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Yes I typically leave the guid scope a hair out of focus. The binning seamed to make little to no difference though. Ill do more testing though. My final review will be a lot more complete.

[@sreeshab4093]

Great video. I have a C Edge 8". And also 0.7x reducer. Would the DUO camera work well both with and without reducer? I may want to image galaxies with say L Pro or IDAS N2 or equivalent filter from a B5 location. Please advise.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

TJ Connolly tested the exact scope and said it worked well with it. You don't really use dual band narrowband filters on galaxies though. Those you have to shoot broadband. You can use some say 7nm wider filters to capture some details but the majority of your data has to be broadband RGB.

[@sreeshab4093]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel thank you, appreciate that. Do you have any link to the review TJ Connolly did? Because I thought he did for Edge 11 and not Edge 8.... will be helpful incase you have the link. btw, L-pro is quite broad right for the galaxy details needed?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

@@sreeshab4093 He is not on KZbin. Only instagram and FB. Ok with the L-pro I do not think you will have any issues. It's quite broad. I loose track of all of their filters.

[@sreeshab4093]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel great thank you once again

[@anthonygraham6449]

Stay strong brother! Did you happen to notice if the Asiair had the option to control the dew heater for the camera? Is it a separate power or internal?

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Yes there is. You have to turn it on every time to. I need to mention this in my final review which i am shooting now lol.

[@anthonygraham6449]

Nice job. Did you mention to image circle size. If you can or have can you try 26-28mm image circle. That is my concern. Hyperstar or .7 reducer on a C8HD is what I plan. Don’t need the test on that scope just that image circle. Thanks

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

I think TJ Cannoly tested on that. And it worked. He is on FB and instagram.

[@anthonygraham6449]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel yea I saw that one. For some reason I felt it was still a grey area. Thank you for responding. Keep them coming.

[@TevisC]

I like the idea of the duo. However I like my dual scope setup. 80mm scope mono and 40mm scope is wide OSC.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Dual scopes is a wonderful thing. I have run them a lot on my old mount.

[@3DAstroTC]

Not even cooled, brutal 😂

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Ya i know.

[@niraj_dave]

this is good news...if player one can pull this off..that'd be something..not sure if QHY is working on something similar.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

With all the pre-orderes that I hear about I bet they are going to miss out big time if they do not.

[@akspeedmic]

Microphone placement... can you place it further away from your throat. It picks up the sound of you swallowing. I love all your videos. I'm just a little distracted with the microphone issue. Thank you.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Noted! Though i wonder if this is because of my cancer that is affecting my gi track. I have lost about 40lbs this year.

[@UssSamuG]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel keep your head up. And you're doing great job. BTW, I have a question - I'm going to switch my mirrorless dslr to one of asi cameras. Is 1600 still in game? Or I shoudl go to 2600 rather? Thanx :)

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

@@UssSamuG If you want to buy a new camera I do not recommend the 1600 anymore. The 294MM that they replaced it with is so much better. I'll be doing a video about it soon. The 2600MM is also amazing though it's probably not as versatile as the 294MM. However a smaller sensor is easier. Sometimes the later 2600 is finicky of beginners with things like sensor tilt and backfocus being much more critical. Flats too are more critical.

[@UssSamuG]

@@TheNarrowbandChannel thanks. I was shooting with dslr (Nikon d750), now I've got mirrorless one (Nikon Z6 II). But I'd like to go mono and narrow (more opportunity to shoot in my small city B4/5). I was using newtonian 203/100 and lately askar fra400, so backfocus is not an issue for now.. We will see with next scope :D Cheers

[@robertw1871]

It wasn’t seeing, binning CMOS doesn’t increase it’s QE… I’ve never had only 1 guide star with OAG even in bad seeing so it’s showing you the flaws you just don’t want to see them…

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

"It wasn’t seeing, binning CMOS doesn’t increase it’s QE… I’ve never had only 1 guide star with OAG even in bad seeing so it’s showing you the flaws you just don’t want to see them…" Pretty sure I never said anything about increasing QE by binning. When I went out and posted at the same part of the sky once the smoke cleared I was able to pick up 12 stars.

[@mikehardy8247]

This Canadians wildfire smoke is insane!! Just got back from a week in bortle 3 vacation. One night was free of clouds, but the smoke in northern Wisconsin made imaging impossible. By day there was a thick haze over the lake! We talk about curbing light pollution. Good luck We couldn't convince the "controlling powers" to address global contamination in the early 70's, and look at the climate now.

[@TheNarrowbandChannel]

Environmental groups have done nothing to help the light Polution situation. And as for the forest fires they are actually mostly to blame. They do not allow forestry management such as controlled burn and keeping fire lanes open. Hence the big issues we now just have to get used to. Sad I know. I fear nothing will ever be done to revers these issues outside of a worldwide economic collapse.