2GG NoS - MVG | Salem (Snake) Vs. Leon (Bowser) Losers Semis - Smash Ultimate

[@dovahllin798]

I’m calling the cops after that last stock

[@jamesnelson5618]

Oh yeah? you and what Army tattletale?

[@babyvaso3855]

Snake's uptilt at 130 is stronger than Bowsers Command grab at 160, let that sink in.

[@henrynovak3150]

It's also as fast, has less lag, lasts literally six times as long, and is nearly three times as large. Snake's Up tilt is the weapon to surpass metal gear.

[@babyvaso3855]

@@henrynovak3150 No, it's how he defeated Metal Gear, a spot dodge to uptilt to win Metal Gear Evo 2020!

[@MeatSlushie0421]

Leon also didn't di the up tilt correctly the last game. He went straight up

[@Phi792]

18:14

[@Sinha010]

@@Phi792 That's with rage and a platform. The last u-tilt was with no rage, just a raw u-tilt in the ground. .

[@er5624]

That was a good set but pls don't ever try to shield grab Snake's up tilt

[@jeffreysherman8224]

Shield grabbing is super nerfed in this game. Don't get me started on how horrible shielding is in Ultimate. There are actually penalty frames for shielding. Your first active frame after shielding could be 12, 15, or even 20! The Rock-paper-scissors dynamic of shielding, grabbing, and attacking is way lopsided now. Smh. That's the only bad design choice of Ultimate. That and maybe having to fall 100 units after directional air-dodging combined with buffered moves. If you buffer an air-dodge at ground level, it's death for most characters. Otherwise 10/10.

[@jeorhan1262]

@@jeffreysherman8224 Yeah the shield drop delay is whaaack.

[@Spleen2ween]

Jeffrey Sherman shield grab nerf was necessary and good, cant have ultimate be tr4sh But yeah, buffering sucks

[@lionzcrown1702]

@@jeffreysherman8224 disagree. Its the genious choice to avoid unskilled players performing well because shielding was so broken. Defense protects you but doesnt give you free damage for falling under pressure unless you parry. Its genious and skill based design choice actually.

[@jeffreysherman8224]

@@lionzcrown1702 To each his own. I say it should be an option because the triangle should have equal corners. Also shield grabbing being an option would punish players who don't space properly and force a sort of level up in movement skill and a discipline in throwing out attacks.

[@christiandelvalle8411]

What an amazing set. Salem’s ledge traps and setups in general were so good and his recovery mixups were ridiculous. Leon nevertheless came so close to overcoming the bad matchup, just goes to show how talented he is. GGs to both plays

[@JohtoJonnyYT]

Wait... 12:07 Salem won and they gave the winning point to Leon... what?

[@SaMiChi]

yea they messed up, then they gave a point to Leon in Game 4, I guess it still worked out.

[@sunsinger7479]

That last up tilt connected but Bowser grab doesn't?? ok

[@searingvortex4082]

I think the grad extended bower’s hit box but yeah lol up-tilt

[@93krstn]

I know right, hes on a roll this tourney with up tilt.

[@Psytheslasher]

The first uptilt hit his shield and pushed him away making his grab whiff. Uptilt has way more range than most grabs. It coulda been worse that move was way better in brawl.

[@jeffreysherman8224]

@@searingvortex4082 Yeah, Bowser extended a hand and Snake extended a foot! The fact that it hit was a little sus though. I was pulling for the "weird" or I guess unorthodox character. I wanted LeoN to win. That was a great set.

[@damage1387]

Attacks beat grab

[@93krstn]

At 19:51 there were so many projectiles from salem it was nuts. His Brawl up tilt is ending smash careers this time about.

[@owen9517]

Must be fun fighting Salem...

[@saotomebuster]

Ow1 great zoner players have that effect. lol

[@93krstn]

@@owen9517 I know right, its crazy.

[@fangiscool1]

brawl up tilt was a lot bigger

[@Lilhajxjk274]

@@fangiscool1 In brawl the hit box was bigger than his leg because he was meant to be bigger than he is but they forgot to make up tilt smaller when they changed there mind and made him a little smaller.

[@JerichoMoon]

This was the best 5 game set of the tournament.

[@briangeer1024]

Leon: *does 40 with his first flame breath* Salem with a grenade and his first nair: “right back at you”

[@TOMATOten]

Leon...the best bowser in the multiverse

[@poeticdavide]

@Jay ! You're just jealous.

[@MeatSlushie0421]

@Jay ! ok, go do what Leon does then

[@wpower7435]

@Jay ! Shut up hater

[@juliocadenas5149]

I truly enjoy how even this game is. Yes there are top tiers and low tiers, advantages and disadvantages; but the player is what makes all the difference. Leon's bowser is Super Instinct level. He lost but not without an admirable fight.

[@dddmemaybe]

This match-up looks really fun to play if you are good at the game. Ton of minor interactions like Bowser cooly shrugging off the grenades being thrown(not explode, the item-state) and both of them live super long lol. Bowser has good out-of-shield while snake has really good shield-pressure. Bowser gets shit on by nikita(well so do many) but his heavy-weight doesn't help him live too much against snake's better kill moves and snake lives pretty long too. It's a match-up where stocks can end instantly or last forever and has a very clear advantage state for both characters.

[@darknessdevil2657]

I may not be a Salem fan anytime soon after his beef with Armada, but his Snake however, is fucking immaculate. I dare say it's up there with Ally's and MVD's.

[@uffevonlauterbach]

That last match was looking like a war zone.

[@ryanwisser2480]

Can somebody tell him about moves staling for me?

[@HollowTyrant]

Ryan Wisser Sure mate. Staling is in all the smash games, and it basically punishes you for using the same moves over and over. Start a counter of 7. If you use the move 7 times in a row, you’ve reached max staling. Using different moves will unstale the move, and after 7 different moves, the first one isn’t stale or “fresh”. It applies to almost all moves. It’s weird with projectiles but it affects them too. That’s my understanding of it. Hope it helped. Edit: I should also add, the more stale a move is, the less knockback and damage it will do. Probably should’ve said that first lol

[@alexdria5071]

Ganon F-Smash: Stalling they say

[@SaMiChi]

@@HollowTyrant To add to that, dodging and rolling also "stales" and becomes slower the more you do them consecutively.

[@ultimaterohan4013]

Yet Banjo's up tilt has half the kill power and non-existent range

[@superxavxii421]

I'd still prefer banjo tho

[@citrusblast4372]

Its basically like pacmans up tilt, an anti air

[@Pmu_Sh0wd0wn]

At least Banjo has more kill power than characters like Sheik and Bayo.

[@NotAManYouCanMend]

Ultimate Rohan yeah? So? Not everyone’s up tilt has to be OO

[@ultimaterohan4013]

@@NotAManYouCanMend I get that, but the fact that Banjo can't hit someone who isn't in a direct vertical line above him is a little exaggerated though. Besides, unless you're reading someone's tech onto a platform, there is almost no reason an opponent should be trying to land directly above you aside from having a busted d-air. I guess you can try to predict someone hopping above and around your shield, but I feel there's better options for that. Sorry for my Ted talk, I was just trying to make a joke about that final Snake up tilt lol

[@bigcrescendo]

This matchup is aids for bowser, props to leon for sending it to game 5 and almost winning

[@NVS_Snake]

I know you said it a long time ago, but its actually even

[@LocsPapi8910]

Snske never skipped leg day.

[@jagdpanzere.onehundred911]

3:55 lol that dude in the background

[@Ink_Floyd]

20:35 Brawl Snake flashbacks

[@NVS_Snake]

Snake Uptilt missed. Then bowser grabbed which also missed which extended his hitbox closer to Snake uptilt range. Lol uptilt

[@dean988]

salems ledge trapping was insane, especially in that last match. leon put up a good fight in an uphill battle. good set overall

[@ternaabuul5287]

12:15 mins into the videos Salem wins the round but Leon gets the point and nobody has noticed

[@Lilhajxjk274]

They realized there Mistake and gave Salem the point next match when Leon won.

[@He-Tries]

There were so many times where I saw Salem at very high percent, last stock and getting command grabbed near edge. Why does no one make Bowser kill himself? Can't you control his side b if you have a higher percentage?

[@mandragora1440]

PsYk1K I think cuz it’s snake he could make it back

[@greedo194]

Snake makes it back

[@almak24]

It kills bowser first

[@DarkestPower3]

The person with lower percent has more influence, but you can always influence where the side b goes.

[@He-Tries]

What I meant was Salem as snake could control it as Bowser dies first. Tought person with higher percent controlled it.

[@saandmann6753]

that up tilt is a bit too good at killing

[@beepboopboopbop3652]

14:44 did this dude really just say “ that nigga is really good?” Hahaha

[@williamcothrum9199]

I wondet if Leon is aware that Bowser dair can armor through snakes projectile up smash. Of course getting abive it and not getting hit from the mortar side can be a pain and snake might have time to shield but it works

[@JanitorMusician]

Im sure he knows that he used to use that option a lot against snake but was getting punished hard for missing the dair , too much end lag

[@justaguy32112]

20:30 if Leon used up smash instead of down smash he would’ve won the set... Edit: snake u tilt busted...

[@MrTheJenkins]

What's crazy is he had that situation what felt like a handful of times but never tried an up-smash. If I was gonna guess that down smash was supposed to be a cover air-doge in as well as to air-dodge to ledge but Salem came down with button. Just shows how much yomi there was in this set.

[@MyFirewing]

Thinking ab this matchup a little bit.....I think bowser being combo food at early percents lowkey helps tbh. That's why leon was tryna kill Salem's snake super fast bc I think he knew that once he got to high percents salem would just toss him around bc of knockback.......but at low percents bowser has like no knockback

[@firstlast1092]

that is not the og leon or am i wrong

[@timhiltz6323]

Leon should pulled out the Game and Watch against Snake.

[@Suburbish]

Oh my! Leon is so OP he at last set was really sorrounded by the snake set up but played really well Congrats! Salem deserve respect too great plays from both

[@k-dawgHI]

Well I hope salem gave LeoN a good sportsmanship handshake... 😆

[@chase9106]

If i had a dollar for every frame 6 bowser side b

[@elefanamir9087]

Bowser looking op

[@bryson7329]

I thought for sure Leon would use Usmash at 20:29

[@mrsteezy1234]

Bowser main here, amazing set. But why do you think Leon didn’t upsmash right at the last game?

[@zaktician5247]

Imagine a Snake with neutral game like MVD and movement like Salem.

[@kindred6804]

That's basically Ally

[@gxstly]

@@kindred6804 Poor guy.

[@MasterofFates]

That uptilt hitbox a bunch of garbage! How does snake have wider range than BOWSER...

[@seanthadon2321]

Well trying to shield grab snake after he up tilts your shield and spaces you out is kinda dumb

[@seanthadon2321]

The move has been around since 2008 I feel like that should be just something you know

[@Flyingboy25]

He hit his hand. Salem couldn't have timed it any better

[@Thecurseofsanity]

I agree dude. That uptilt is straight up BS. As good as Snake's projectile game is I have no idea why his normals needed to be so fucking good

[@MasterofFates]

If anyone needs a better uptilt it's pacman. Give my boy back his smash 4 uptilt and give it the same frame data and knockback as this one has.

[@FirebrandOP]

Great bowser! 👍

[@mayc6624]

Best Bowser

[@bengotagun]

Man that was fun to watch

[@tal5189]

Leon played game 5 like he was on elite smash 😂

[@catandgrouper4760]

Uncle Jae is that an insult or compliment

[@HollowTyrant]

Cat and Grouper I also want to know the answer to that question

[@khalifrouf8730]

Salem definitely made the matchup look harder than it actually is

[@jeffreysherman8224]

Actually LeoN is the one that made it look harder. One of the best Bowsers in the world.

[@pspeasant6220]

Jeffrey Sherman i would argue Google chrome is a better browser

[@jeffreysherman8224]

@@pspeasant6220 Hahaha! Thanks for that. I'll correct my comment. Darn autocorrect.

[@sss-pi9ik]

its even ask any top bowser

[@NVS_Snake]

Even

[@AppaTheRottweiler]

I hate spam characters so much. Gg Leon

[@D0ubleMK]

@Purple Panther what was he spamming? link the time to literally ANY time when bowser spammed ANY move. id link you when snake spammed but i would just link you the WHOLE VIDEO

[@xMrxsunshinex]

That last stock was fucking stupid. Uptilt connected but grab missed!?

[@gecbhxscbhf7288]

Snake killing Bowser at 122% with up-tilt lmao

[@JanitorMusician]

105% * the up tilt put him at 122%

[@JanitorMusician]

@ッ// peonat did you watch the video ? He wasnt on a platform it was the last stock of the last match and yeah he had a bit of rage but not that much it could've been bad DI but still its bowser with rage it shouldn't kill at 105 its too strong it should be nerfed its just my opinion though snake is already so good

[@Psytheslasher]

@@JanitorMusician no it was 122% the uptilt put him at 140%

[@Psytheslasher]

@@JanitorMusician it was 122%

[@minjun335]

It was bad di i think, leon was di-ing away and thats why he went almost straight up

[@D-ray-jo2gy]

I don't think I like snake sorry if I'm wrong I'm a new player but I dont think bowser could do anything when snake recoved high and off screen only to pull 4 grenades is that fair? Idk im new

[@JanitorMusician]

Its not a good match up for bowser , unfortunately leon doesn't really play other characters much he has a pocket game and watch but probably would've lost hard because his game and watch doesn't compare to his bowser. Other characters wreck snake like olimar

[@Nicholaskgaming]

Good match, pretty entertaining.

[@nintentwins1867]

16:08 Leon won but it gave a point to Salem? Leon just won the set! What the hell happened

[@mikeyes620]

12:07 leon loses a game but gets a point

[@inarencommander4663]

Snake is one of my least favorite characters. His strategy is basically run, hide, and camp your opponent. I like more courageous and daring characters. Props to Leon taking two games with such a bad matchup.

[@wpower7435]

Snake is pretty low on offense lacks a lot of mobility as a zoner that's why he runs away most of the time to set the traps. His options are limited in offense just be careful of his up tilt. In fact from my experience, characters with great mobility plus great frame data and rush-down, are a serious problem for Snake, especially it you play aggressive depending how patient and careful you are on his traps.

[@pyroBadguy]

Most Bowsers actually think it's a winning or even mu for Bowser. Leon just hates playing it lol.

[@dddmemaybe]

@@pyroBadguy Leon no respect for grenade being hard to see.

[@D0ubleMK]

The strat is to just play like the biggest pussy you can imagine. That's how Snake works

[@voodooedits785]

It’s even

[@moss8809]

Big bousy boi :)

[@Thecurseofsanity]

Snake's uptilt needs nerfed, holy shit that move is some BS

[@certified842]

This matchup is horrendous

[@Erik_Montesinos]

nigga nigga it was really close at least

[@ryngtolu4334]

This MU is even at worst for Bowser lol, if Leon played better at the ledge that would have been a 3-0 for him

[@ryngtolu4334]

@ッ// peonat Yes i agree

[@quantum6637]

ッ// peonat This MU definitely isn’t even. Getting in is very bad for Bowser. Snake’s biggest weakness is disadvantage/recovery which Bowser can’t exploit if Snake chooses to recover high. Getting in is a nightmare for Bowser due to his enormous hurt box and lack of burst options. Bowser’s biggest weakness is also disadvantage in all respects. Snake CAN exploit this unlike Bowser. Snake has godlike ledgetrapping and his side-b murders Bowser.

[@ryngtolu4334]

"Getting in is very bad for Bowser" no it isn't, the fact he is so big and twice as fast as Snake makes Snake having an hard time trying to play his game, cause Bowser can just run and messing him up Leon played very bad at the ledge and jumped 90% of the time, most important he never get up attack, i played this MU many times and all you have to do when Snake is spamming up smash is timing the get up attack for not being hit, but leon never did that and got destroyed at the ledge. And even so Salem barely won the set.

[@elpis9128]

Leon's bowser is so brain dead it's actually got me rooting for Snake

[@cag_0k642]

Not much bowser can actually do, he is what he is

[@everybodyhandsup1]

Somehow I found myself doing the same

[@Noot_Penguin]

Define "braindead"

[@EvilChris2010]

I would've rage quit. The amount of spam and ledge trapping was insane. No me gusta. I'm gonna pull my controller so hard that it tosses the switch across the room and breaks it. Then I'll run out of the room in a blonde wig.

[@malachistone88]

Crazy FN match!

[@jorgearteaga4675]

What a game wow

[@thedami0618]

up-tilt lmao

[@LizardMane]

that up tilt needs to be nerfed fuck that move.

[@bireon878]

Snake is broken.

[@d4nt3_023]

This scoreboard is whack

[@OfficialNeonScratch]

The crowd is not biased at all.

[@devenp.5508]

OfficialNeonScratch the crowd isn’t biased they aren’t calling the game, a crowd is the fans and if one player has more fans that the side you’re going to hear. Have you never been to a sporting event of any kind before?

[@lionheartking5867]

Leon is the underdog and salem has a bad rep oh well

[@MathewBroadway]

The win counters...

[@TheThugnificant]

Wow what an upset!

[@catandgrouper4760]

Sir_Drastic no, they’re both pgr players

[@TheThugnificant]

@@catandgrouper4760 I fully expected Leon to rinse Salem like he does most top players.

[@fangiscool1]

A top Snake beating a top Bowser is not remotely an upset. It's a massive uphill battle for Leon.

[@ostaannterron6945]

I would try my hardest not to let snake have the satisfaction of doing all of that stuff. So I would just edge guard, keep him at the ledge, and read get ups.

[@majorjohnny7517]

I hate Salem as a person but his snake is clean

[@OriginalNeckbeardicus]

Salem's snake looking godlike that game 2

[@JapaneseDangerousBoy]

スネーク格闘とニキータだけ使っとけば楽に勝てた気がすんねんけと。

[@watersports1381]

salem may have an attitude problem but you gott respect this dudes skill in smash...

[@D0ubleMK]

I gotta watch another match to see his skill then, playing Snake is like the opposite of having skill

[@rafikirana2468]

Ieon is a great player no doubt, but he isn't a skilled player. He has good game sense, but bowser is such a easy character to play and the only arguement for the character is his matchups in the game. I honestly don't care he doesn't take skill to play. Honestly wish Donkey Kong was best heavey. I mean if you tweak with his move DK can be a heavy with good combos.

[@doug4603]

Nah

[@calebcoppess911]

Why are you all saying that LeoN has no skill? "Bowser is such a[n] easy character to play..." How many other pro bowsers do you see? Heck, if bowser is so easy to play why don't you become the next PGR ranked bowser?

I wish Snake was given a pistol. It really doesn’t feel like his character to only be explosives

[@RobertMitchellX]

Snake's uptilt range is bullshit

[@williamkeith1180]

When B pressing beats the bowser god..... just kidding, Salem played well (still kinda not kidding) but these kinda matches feel like snake just has to set up the same traps he always does and presses all the buttons, meanwhile bowser is forced to avoid all of this as a big body heavy and somehow still play neutral.

[@fangiscool1]

Yep. This matchup is hugely unbalanced. Bowser doesn't even have anything to clang with nikita off stage. It's free for Snake in neutral and advantage

[@NVS_Snake]

@@fangiscool1 even matchup by the way

[@Monroe_09]

Ness spammer, King DDD spammer, King K Rool spammer, and the worst, Snake spammer

[@dtfriendship8651]

Salem definitely lost one of those games but nobody seems to have noticed....

[@clement_jacob]

So did Leon so your point makes no sense

[@yociroc]

What are you getting at ?

[@sizeableyeet]

Snake is honestly so boring to watch

[@yociroc]

Large Yeet Snake: 1000 iq plays You: boring Bowser: side b 4 times in a row You: 😍😍 Leon is such a great bowser

[@sizeableyeet]

Marco Soria dude, what’s the point of an 1000 IQ play when it’s boring as shit. Also, I’m not sure z-dropping grenades all over the stage even makes it to the IQ double digits.

[@fangiscool1]

Ally's Snake was fun. Salem and MVD are just super campy, so they're boring

[@shardofkingdoms9816]

I like Snake but Salem ruins the character

[@dvaccaro96]

Yo Salem's bomb traps are on a not yet explored level of IQ.

[@D0ubleMK]

@Purple Panther he can literally fly wtf do you mean its bad. he can make it back from 100 miles away

[@D0ubleMK]

It doesn't take a high IQ to play like a giant pussy dropping grenades and C4 and running away to go use the nikita

[@mr.dr.kaiser4912]

Nerf Snake.

[@JanitorMusician]

Snakes up tilt needs to be nerfed hard its so fast and hits way to hard for a tilt most up smashes wouldn't have killed bowser at that percent like 105% are you fucking kidding me. That shit is broken , snake is way too good and still isnt being utilized perfectly . I understand it should be powerful but shouldnt be able to kill bowser at 105 . Maybe like 125 or something

[@goldtigre4979]

Does anyone actually like watching Snake gameplay smh

[@D0ubleMK]

Only other Snake mains who come to watch others to make themselves feel better about having to play like giant pussies

[@bretthensley5318]

Amazing side-b spamming from Bowser.

[@aeroromeo7431]

Brett Hensley At least he wasn’t bombing the stage.

[@chocolatine_sournoise]

Yeah because spam b with a top 3 character make you a 1000iq genious. Duh !

[@bretthensley5318]

clovism96 The word you’re looking for is genius.

[@Daboss8211-]

#BowserSide-BIsABullshitMove

[@D0ubleMK]

Snake lived it at 150% then killed Bowser (THE HEAVIEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME) with an uptilt at like 120%. Bowser is not the problem, Snake is an extra large bullshit burrito

[@Weregoatee]

Snake has a huge advantage versus Bowser and Salem still sweat more than when he was dropped for being a massive tool lol

[@dingo9696]

rent free

[@voodooedits785]

It’s even stop saying it’s snake favor

[@mrcrocman8709]

snake is the b****iest character

[@MrBiosh0ck]

Snake is so boring to watch

[@dean988]

MrBiosh0ck and bowser is fun to watch ?

[@Flackogeronimo]

I fucking love Leon goddamn

[@yay842]

Nerf Snake. Easy to play and high reward...

[@nicksomethingorother2457]

Purple Panther don’t you know that all zoning characters are just soooooo easy to play as /s

[@NVS_Snake]

Literally a top 10 hardest to play tho. And he doesn’t really win any matchups for Free. Its mainly 0, 0/+1, and +1. Plus he loses to like 8-10 characters. His only +2 is probably Ice Climbers and maybe Little Mac and Ganon if he chooses to platform camp.

[@chocolatine_sournoise]

Lol this shit is so op , hope it's gonna be nerf ... Such a shame than a guy who sd can win because of his op character. Don't get me wrong, Salem is a good player but if you sd it's mean you were not focus enough on the game. This game is a perfect example to see how this mu is so unbalanced. Seriously snake got even killmove as good as bowser killmove , one of the character with the better killmove in the game.

[@NVS_Snake]

Its an even matchup at top level

[@tg6092]

It kills me watching Leon sometimes. Bowser's best move is his down air and he fails to utilize it at the proper time. Some players go OD with it, but I feel like he almost never uses it.

[@mikeyes620]

Bowser's down air isn't that good

[@catandgrouper4760]

Tom Gabany no, bowser has side b, neutral b, dsmash and usmash, ftilt, uptilt, fair, nair, and bair All of these moves are better than down air

[@poeticdavide]

Such an annoying way how he plays Snake, it's mostly just a spammy attitude. 🙄

[@curtisbrown547]

fraud.

[@colebutler4442]

Snake just seems like a lame character

[@taylorr1329]

Leon is a better player by far. It’s a HORRIBLE matchup for bowser and that’s the only reason Salem picked snake, and to top it off he barely won the set. ZERO props to Salem. Cheap win IMO

[@NVS_Snake]

Its even, I dont get why people act like its a free matchup for Snake. MVD and Leon think its even

[@alexpotts6520]

Even if it were a really favourable match-up - Salem has deep pockets and can play about half a dozen characters at a tournament level. When you put in the effort to mastering so many different characters, you earn yourself the luxury of being able to choose good match-ups against character specialists.

[@TheErolind]

Leon should use down B more often

[@DarkestPower3]

RC not in this matchup, Snake can just upsmash or up tilt and stop Bowser.

[@theoilord]

Nah

[@theironfro6395]

Still better tham fighting Game and Watch

[@tinyt.w.i.m7291]

The Iron Fro don’t chase game and watch in the air. Punish his landings instead. All of his aerials have considerable landing lag. Try your best to avoid bacon edge guard situations. Game and watch is a good character that can cover himself if he does something unsafe. Good luck. (This is based on my own experience..)