[3.0] Khaenri'ah Did Nothing Wrong - A Genshin Impact Theory

[@Ashikai]

**NOTES, UPDATES AND CORRECTIONS** - I've gotten quite a few comments from people who are upset that I likened the Night Mother to Kali. I want to make it very clear because I think I didn't make it clear enough in the video, that this is not a negative association. Both of these deities fall under the classification of a void goddess, a goddess that rules over both creation and destruction. Kali does belong to this archetype and I believe that the night mother is a similar deity which is why I used Kali to represent her. Both deities are quite fearsome to look at and could easily be misconstrued by people who don't understand them to be evil or demonic deities but they're not. They're meant to be feared, respected, and revered for their roles in both creation and destruction because they represent the complete cycle of life. I think I should have done a better job of clarifying that in the video itself, so for that I apologize.

[@DeepakThakur-sx8fz]

On the contrary, I think your depiction of Goddess Kali is quite accurate. Kali was one of the avatars of Goddess Parvati, and she was considered to be the goddess of motherhood and affection. I think this reinforces your correlation of Night mother with Goddess Kali. Further info: Goddess Parvati created Goddess Kali from her hairs to be the most ruthless warrior...in fact, Kali was so consumed in the bloodlust of war that she even forgot what was her purpose to fight. Goddess Kali was eventually stopped by Shiva ( one of the three great gods of Hinduism and the actual God of destruction. He was also the Husband of Goddess Parvati). All the info here is based on the stories I heard from a Priest who his well-informed with Hindu Scriptures and mythologies. P.S. Hindu people are very sensitive about their gods.

[@superln1684]

It's alright . Also 😁 I love your genshin story theories and enjoy most of my time watching thank-you 🙂

[@maango.]

@@DeepakThakur-sx8fz that's so informative! thanks for sharing 👍

[@keyonwillis2191]

There was another robot in the desert when you go in the robot I found a piece of paper a guy was talking about how everyone he knew what’s turning into monsters and how he was slowly becoming I mean transforming into one

[@pujajaiswal6677]

Hey Ashikai, After what has been revealed and we know and from the story of the Sword Of Descension i think that lumine was trapped in this world or to irminsul by sustainer of heavenly principles and lost the ability to travel from world to world unlike aether who still isn't connected to irminsul( from sumeru story quest) and is siding with the abyss who want to destroy the world/irminsul so that she will no longer be bound by the "laws" of teyvat and can leave

[@normal6483]

One thing that always stood out to me is how The Traveler refers to the Abyss with such... familiarity. In the Chasm quest where everyone ended up beneath the Chasm's Nail, there was a domain that showed people the things they feared most. For The Traveler, this was "The Abyss that took my [sibling.]" The domain only showed people things from their memories before that, so the Traveler is implied to have seen the Abyss firsthand. And the Traveler acts as though they have a point of view on the Abyss taking their sibling that they haven't voiced, because viewing The Abyss so strongly and negatively that it's your worst nightmare implies that The Traveler isn't accusing the Abyss out of mere suspicion, but from personal experience of some sort.

[@jeder655]

Which is weird because we saw the Sustainer, not the Abyss, take our sibling away (unless the Sustainer is the Abyss somehow) and I assume that was the last we saw of our sibling before the We Will Be Reunited quest. Or is it that the traveler assumed the Abyss took our sibling because we saw them siding with the Abyss

[@klee8846]

@@jeder655 what if the sustainer is the personification of Marana? Cuz we still do not know what god is she of.

[@pozzsicle]

Wait, does the domain only show memories? I thought it was more like nightmares, where some memories are used, but it's mostly your imagination?

[@ffpfq]

@@jeder655 I am not sure that we know all memories of travelers. Some of them still can be lost (or just order of events is not the one we think is)

[@battra7998]

@@jeder655 Maybe the Sustainer is the Night Mother? Just a guess.

[@drpaimon2369]

3:56 not necessarily. The Tsaritsa is also an archon and it seems like the other archons aren't really that close to celestia either. Both Zhongli and Raiden willingly gave up their gnosis and venti seemed to barely fight back and didn't seem really upset. I've got a feeling the Tsaritsa doesn't see the archons as her enemy, but rather as the victims of celestia, her actual enemy.

[@raspyy259]

Forget about Raiden and Venti, ZHONGLI willingly gave his gnosis on a contract. Now, we don't know what it might be in exhange for, but what could possibly be equal to the worth of a gnosis. It might be going against the heavenly principles. Also, If you look at the current position of Celestia in game, and intersect two lines, the point where celestia is located is the exact location where Sneznaya will be. So its likely that Celestia is floating above Sneznaya, meaning that they know about the Tsarista's rebellion

[@Rexhunterj]

The Tsaritsa is known as the "God of Love with no love left for her people" so the people of Schnezneya fill the void she left when her love ran dry with their love and devotion to her, that's why the little anime Russians are so devout for their queen and god. It's likely she resents the other Archons for not making a move against Celestia despite their actions in her perception, after all it's clear that when Asmoday (Unknown God) smited Khaenri'ah she also was responsible for the death of someone the Tsaritsa held dear to her. Venti talked fondly of the Tsaritsa, and mentioned that once long ago she had been a good friend of his but that time had frosted up her heart and they no longer saw eye to eye on things. This tells of a hostility between the archons and a melancholy Venti carries over it.

[@BattyButtercup]

The archons we've met thus far have all been Elementals (I'm including Buer here, too, though interpreting her as being a kind of dryad-avatar of Irminsul), entities borne of Elemental Energy & Leylines: the archons we know are "children" of Irminsul. Then Celestia descended and made the gods of Tevat fight each other to gain Celestial-approved Authority. Celestia is alien to Teyvat, its archons are native to it: it makes more sense that the archons would side with each other over Celestia (who ordered & enforced a civil war that lasted thousands of years). yet, for all that the oldest archons so successfully established their authority (by friendship, by alliance, by raw power), none felt able to challenge Celestia. until now. by giving up their gnoses in deals of information, the archons have subtly allied themselves against Celestia or, at least, allied themselves with each other: the Archon War proved that Celestia is more powerful than Teyvat's native gods; the cataclysms proved that Celestia is NOT powerful enough to confront Marana directly (or are too lazy to come up with a solution alternate to "drop a nuke every few thousand years"). Celestia likely used Khaenriah as an Example, a threat to the Archons they summoned there of what happens to those without the "safety" of Celestia's approval & might. Whatever the Harbingers have told the archons, Morax and Buer feel confident enough to "forsake" Celestia's protection & oversight. I am very, very curious as to how Barbatos knew that it was safe for Mondstadt to lose its gnosis to La Signora, an ex-patriot. What words did the winds carry to their archon? Did Venti visit Yae to get his story to match up with Ei's? What kept the God of Freedom from aiding Lesser Lord Kusanali? these questions all point to Celestia, even if the growing data on the situation with Khaenriah doesn't.

[@hymm0]

@@BattyButtercup i think I agree with this theory

[@cr0i]

the point of khaenriah fighting AGAINST the abyss is even more supported by the notes left around the second ruin golem in the desert, seems like they got cursed mid battle or right post battle as the soldiers slowly turned into hillichurls. another note from the akademiya around the golem seems to suggest that the akademiya actually housed and tried to cure some of the injured soldiers, so the two parties were not against eachother, but against the abyssal monsters edit: forgot to add this but it seems the soldiers got cursed also OUTSIDE khaenriah, now im not sure if the akademiya note is reffering to only the khaenrian soldiers or also sumeru soldiers who mightve been there, but if it would be very VERY weird if only the khaenrian ones got cursed (as if they were specifically targeted instead of accidentally being cursed)

[@AstraLuna-o9i]

I noticed this too. The scholar in the desert near the Ruin Gollem tells us that the Gollums were created to combat the monsters of the Abyss.

[@_aryyy]

I never noticed until I read this but you're absolutely right. Some of the notes in the Ruin Golem mention soldiers disappearing so they might have been turning into Abyss creatures without the other soldiers knowing.

[@TheUnknownPizza]

I noticed every message in the two ruin robots and they say that there were problems fighting The Abyss or something

[@akarirei]

@@AstraLuna-o9i It was said somewhere that Gold were the one who created the abyssal monstrosity most probably through the Art of Khemia, and it just clicked in my mind, doesn’t that mean she’s somehow connected to Night Mother?

[@armanke13]

sumeru soldiers might have been protected by greater lord rukhadevata from the curses?

[@_NotChrissy]

Lol dain has his own faction just for himself "The fatui, the abyss order and dainsleif" that made me laugh😂

[@fencerderio9814]

These Ruin Golems gave some lore drops on a level I was NOT anticipating. I’m very excited to hear your take on it all.

[@windeen]

Zhongli's comments in his story quest about Havria (I think, might have been the other one). He said (paraphrasing here) that he wanted the traveler to: "Be a witness so that Teyvat would never be forgotten" ... The way he said it made me think that whatever is going on is definitely world ending. Almost like he's given up on it being saved. And likely Xiao and Venti.. And possibly Yae all know about it, and have given up (though Venti and Yae don't seem to have completely lost hope). All of them have either said or indicated that they thought of the traveler as a witness. One that was needed for if/when the world falls apart. And I am getting that vibe from Kusanalli, as well- though I'm not done with her Archon quest yet.

[@rejcter]

this makes me so sad

[@IAmTheEagleHTM]

I hope not. It'd be a waste of time and money to have played Genshin after years. I'd be all in to save the world as a cliche and Traveler's purpose is to save the world.

[@ignemuton5500]

if the traveler is indeed a carnation of sorts of the primordial one it only makes sense, the traveler would be sort of eternal, if we look at it from the gnostic perspective, it would make celestia the demiurge and the traveler is the true god.

[@saaishpanhalkar6714]

Well traveller saving tevyat would make sense as his character story is written as "The keeper is fading away, the creator has not yet come but the world shall burn no more for you shall ascend"

[@suwoh.c1977]

@@IAmTheEagleHTM It would be more climatic for old world to end and from its ashes new was born. At least that is the theme Hoyo is going with its other titles so far. Honkai is currrently in the world end state and big shake up is coming closer and closer with each new patch.

[@zevinn6498]

I can't wait for the next Dainslief Archon Quest to either prove this is right, or completely change what we know about the story as a whole. I'm still holding out hope that it is Celestia behind a lot of this.

[@khaliquet1]

It’ll be criminal if Dain doesn’t show his face over the next year in Sumeru. We need some Answers. We have one more chunk of Desert to unlock, and then whatever is west of the pyramids (Mare Jivari/ Volcano?) before Fontaine. Maybe we’ll get something more there. Also, The Pyro Archon HAS to know stuff. They’re saving her for second to last for whatever reason…

[@zevinn6498]

@@khaliquet1 So I guess can we assume that the forbidden knowledge came from the abyss?

[@mitacestalia7532]

I believe both sides are wrong, hence why Dains doesn't really side at all.

[@coffeelatte8616]

@@mitacestalia7532 me too.. there must be a reason khaeriah is cursed and why the god destroyed khaenriah.. i don't think there is wrong side or bad side or good side.. it's just unfortunate. but we'll have to see

[@viepng]

3.5 is supposedly the next dainsleif archon quest

[@Goodman._]

I kinda remember that Zhongli once said he can't reveal the truth of the Khaenriah because he made a contract 500 years ago. After this video, if your hypothesis about the Kheanriah being destroyed by the gods unwillingly is correct, it does make sense that Zhongli and the other gods would not want to reveal the truth.

[@kuroganeuzumaki5759]

A small theory I came up with why the Archons might been quiet about is that they could have been controlled (i.e. became a Herrscher-like being against their will for that time frame then woke up from trance to see what they did.) via the gnosis they each have. We already seen Zhongli and to an extent, Raiden Shogun, willing to part with their gnosis. If an archon like Raiden and Zhongli gave up their gnosis willing (to save the Traveler via Yae giving it to Scaramouche or following a contract), then there's something far more sinister with those chess pieces. Considering that Honkai and Genshin are a part of the Imaginary Tree in Honkai. It wouldn't be surprising that as the story progresses that the Archons have Herrscher-like forms when corrupted or under control of whoever is in charge in Celestia. But there's some holes to that theory.

[@Shark112]

@@kuroganeuzumaki5759 that makes sense, Raiden Shogun calamity form is like a herscherr..

[@kuroganeuzumaki5759]

@@Shark112 That's true.

[@mitacestalia7532]

@@kuroganeuzumaki5759 Honestly, I think it will be better if they're not controlled, but they must do it simply because they must protect their own land. There's this corruption going on and it's about to reach your country, your choice is to destroy it or let it reach your region. If you're an archon, number one will be best choice.

[@kuroganeuzumaki5759]

@@mitacestalia7532 That's fair but if that were the case then the events would have been different than what we have now (Zhongli under contract with Celestia to not talk about it and Venti bring vague). It could be guilt but I feel the "I'll attack Khaenri’ah to protect my nation because they built weapons of mass destruction" is way too obvious and seems unlikely because with the new information from Sumeru that the giant Ruin Guard we see was meant to protect from those who escaping the curse (i.e. got turned into Hilichurls) not attack Celestia. If that was protecting people than attacking Celestia itself, then why would the Archons have to "protect their nation" if Khaenri’ah didn't have the weapons to attack Celestia directly but protect its people?

[@vlorggy]

Marana/Abyss sounds a lot like honkai, especially since it's sentient. In Honkai if you get a honkai infection you kind of turn into a zombie, almost exactly like a hilichurl. And the honkai isn't just one thing, it can be multiple things like diseases, cataclysmic weather events, monsters etc because it has a mind of it's own and can evolve into anything depending on the circumstances. And in Honkai the humans were able to somewhat manage and use the honkai power themselves, almost like abyss mages and abyss heralds and it's probably why everyone assumes Khaenriah is the abyss because they're using it's magic. And that makes me think that the night mother could be a herscher and her pygmies could be psuedo herschers.

[@TheCheeseman1983]

It’s unlikely to be exactly the same thing as the Honkai, but there are probably a lot of similarities. The writers probably want to make a different game with parallel themes, not just rehash the same concepts as the previous title.

[@vlorggy]

@@TheCheeseman1983 Well they do live on the same universe ''tree'' of all the worlds that struggle against the honkai, abyss could just be the name of honkai but just in Genshin's world.

[@2tieflings]

Running with the same kind of idea since it’s been confirmed Genshin is part of the Honkai universe, Marana/Abyss could also be the Sea of Quanta. It would make sense that Genshin’s world tree is connected to the greater Honkai Imaginary tree. If that’s the case then it would also make sense that the force trying to kill the Genshin tree would be the same as the one trying to kill the Honkai tree. Either way I’d definitely say it’s one or the other (Honkai/Quanta).

[@Rexhunterj]

@@TheCheeseman1983 It's the same thing, at least it's the same singular entity controlling Honkai and Abyss, the representation/manifestation of the will of honkai's power might be different in each bubble world it creeps into, so in the HI world it's obviously Honkai, but in Teyvat an artificial bubble world? It's the Abyss, fundamentally both do the same thing ultimately but in different ways. Abyss doesn't need to create Lawmakers/Herscherrs it can infect the Vision Wielders of Teyvat who are already special among humans, and we've seen delusions after all...

[@TheCheeseman1983]

@@Rexhunterj There is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Genshin may be canon to Honkai, but we have seen zero evidence of Honkai being canon to Genshin.

[@cetribottle]

So, King Deshret brought the Withering to Sumeru by acquiring some kind of "forbidden knowledge." I wonder if this knowledge is related to the knowledge that caused Celestia to force Orobashi to do what it did, and the bleaching of Watatsumi's soil is its own variant of Withering?

[@rizz8362]

good theory but the soil in watatsumi is bleaching because it isn't natural, it's made out of fish scales from orobashi so the soil isn't good there

[@HoloUniversee]

forbidden knowledge that may be connected: creating 'flawed' lifeforms, destructive technology for war (nuclear weapons), immortality, a spaceship that can take you to another universe/dimension (reach celestia) while having a corporeal form (only spirits shall ascend). The travelers have bypassed the last forbidden knowledge.

[@oppaanja]

There's a lot of more additional Khaenriah lore in the Ruin Golem in the desert. You gotta start the world quest and find a certain scholar near the golem and you will find a lot of notes and info within that quest. And it's kinda scary and amazing how some of things you said here is very accurate in terms with the actual lore inside the golem. Amazing content as always, Ashikai 💖

[@syarifht5929]

This two golem is a HUGE lore dump

[@basilisk..]

That thing tried to kill me last time, im not going back there👀

[@oppaanja]

@@basilisk.. haha I know what you're talking about. I was shock as well when it started beaming laser 😂 But the world quest will fix it.

[@veeistiredasf]

@@oppaanja pls i thought there was a ruin guard nearby and then i saw that massive thing firing at me and nearly had a heart attack, but it was worth it for all the note reading!

[@impii9088]

the thing i just realised as well is that outside the ruin golem in the desert is a few hilichurls that have seemingly been killed by the golem and if im correct in thinking hilichurls are khaenrians then that just means those hilichurls got killed by their own creation which is sad

[@crapaholic2977]

"An old component obtained from defeating a Primal Construct. It is said that these machines are different from those ruin machines that come from deep within the desert, for they were not made as heralds of destruction or conquest." -Turbid Prism "In the ancient past, these ruins were once part of a civilization mighty enough to almost touch the dome of the firmament, while "ruin" still waits in the deep places of the earth, awaiting the order to arise and tread all kingdoms underfoot." -Chaos Oculus From the 'Turbid Prism', it is implied that the Ruin Machines were 'made as heralds of destruction and conquest', and from the 'Chaos Oculus' , it is implied that they were made to 'tread all kingdoms underfoot', which definitely does not bode well for Khaenri'ahs reputation. They could have been against the Abyss as well, but that doesn't mean they were completely innocent either. I think it goes a little like that scene in Megamind; Humans: "Thank you, thank you! Khaenri'ah has freed us from the Abyss / Heavenly Principles!" Khaenri'ah: "Oh I woundn't say freed. More like... under new management."

[@Rexhunterj]

Yes, I also believe the King and Sages intended to crush Teyvat's surface nations and build a single mega nation once and for all on the corpses of all the dead ones... essentially just replacing Celestia as the big bad evil, but with the Abyss instead, which also means that effectively Teyvat has been pruned from the Imaginary Tree too at that point and falls into the Sea of Quanta to be churned up.

[@notimetolive12]

1. In the Diluc event, we got to know that the abyss order can activate the lay lines and it's memories whenever they want somehow. This is maybe because they had technology to extract elemental energy from irminsul tree. 2. We know that the hillichurla worship the elements, not the archons. That can mean that they worship the irminsul and the elemental energy that the lay lines absorb and store within. 3. Dain and Halfdan aren't the only cursed ones with consciousness. The abyss mages, heralds, and lectors do too. That is why that herald told Dain that you and i are not so different. The surprising thing is that, even some hillichurls have some degrees of consciousness and memories. They worship the elements, have the eclipse tribe, move near the celestial pillar in chasm to suppress their curse, etc. 4. Both the abyssal wolves and Durin were created for good purpose until they were exposed to the abyssal energy and got corrupted. If we wouldn’t destroy the blood coat on Dvalin, he would face the same fate. The abyss order was trying to make him cursed like them and recruit him. They tried the same process on Boreas and exposed him to marana/abyss. But the traveller intervened. 5. During the Inazuma matsuri ceremony event, the whole Enkanomiya was possibly filthed with marana or abyssal energy. It was Enjou's doing. Again, they were possibly trying to get those vishaps corrupted. They also tried to look for that certain book in there. 6. I can bet my bottom mora that the Karma that Xiao possess is a curse from the night mother or abyssal energy. All his kins were affected by it, lost their minds, and turned on each other.

[@notmaylea]

you know this reminds me of other games where humans are fighting against a force whose inherent purpose is to kill life. in Honkai Impact 3rd, well there's the honkai. In Punishing: Gray Raven, there's the punishing virus. In Genshin Impact, there's the abyss/marana. What's common among these kinds of stories is that there's usually a faction that gains the power to control this force and uses it to accomplish their ideals. You know what's a good battle scene? The Abyss sibling manages to harness abyssal power while the Traveler protagonist regains their original power back (the power of pure light, or something) and then they clash. Just two complete opposing forces battling it out full force.

[@Rexhunterj]

Hillichurls all retain some sort of their old selves until they begin to move underground to live out the rest of their empty days near the Nameless City as Dain described to us. They wear masks because the human part of their subconscious becomes terrified by the monster they see in reflections, this is a well known Trivia in the overworld too though researchers claim to not understand why they hate the sight of their own faces (we know why though)

[@slvergle4697]

Since we're talking about Khaenri'ah being cursed by Marana, I'm really surprised no one has mentioned Eleazar. Eleazar is given an explicit link to Marana/the withering. When the withering gets worse, people with Eleazar get worse. The people get very sickly, grow scales, lose mobility, etc. It doesn't seem normal. And I feel like I remember a character literally saying it is a manifestation of the withering on the human body.

[@999noheart]

wasnt it said that eleazar is unique to sumeru ?

[@SephTheHuntress]

It's all because the abyss brought about forbidden knowledge to King Deshret, and by extension it went to Rukkhedevata as well. Thanks to King Deshret, Eleazar was created, but he did try to rectify his mistake.

[@foreverandonward]

I have a few issues with this, when you play Enokomiya you find that Khaenriahns were using them to attack and kill other people to gain the forbidden knowledge Celestia was trying to lock away and when read by Orobashi was forced to sacrifice himself to the shogunate. More than that most of the monsters that were created aren't abyssal monsters, they are creations of Gold. The Wolflord and Rifthound as well as Durin and Rugedero and by extension the Dragon Whopperflower came from Gold as well. She seemingly made the Wolflord to create tunnels through space and reality to have things travel through. And of course Durin was sent directly towards Mondstat leading to Dvalin to be corrupted by the poison. This isn't an issue of being poisoned or corrupted, they are made this way purposefully by the king of Khaenriah's most loyal Alchemist. And now while most of them are left to go wild and hunt, their creation was purposeful and targeted, from every Riftwelp to Durin seemingly regenerating even now

[@TheCheeseman1983]

I’m not sure we can say for certain that the Abyssal monsters were working as intended. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Khaenri’ah lost control of their creations, and some of them are even referred-to as accidental. I am inclined to believe that Gold was experimenting with using Abyssal power, but made a mistake that allowed a full-scale invasion from the Abyss.

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

@@TheCheeseman1983 this and could very well be that they were perfectly created first go and just ran into some mud 😭 If they had the robots to fight against all this (speculation made in this video) why would they order the creation of those abyssal creatures? They probably had an entirely different purpose and got gooped up by mud, then after this followed the creation of the Robots to fight against them for the Kheanriahns.

[@mon_moi]

I think the ppl in charge of the giant robots and those like Rhinedottir are separate factions within Khaenriah

[@Chandrisa]

Okay, but history is written by the victors. Celestial had Orobashi killed because it knew about the skeletons in their closet. Nuking an entire civilization? Accidentally or otherwise? Is a pretty big skeleton,

[@bloody4558]

Gold didn't send Durin to Mondstadt, Durin went there of his own volition to befriend Dvalin, whom he considered to be of the same species, unknown to him his mere presence spread death and corruption around. Durin was a really tragic being.

[@alexandrachernysh7]

Interesting fact about robots, they do not start walking and attacking because of internal programming, or because they are "recharged". Most of the robots are broken and not operational. But it is the plants that stick out out of their backs that re-animate them. It is not just a design feature. As I understand, similar thing happened with desert golem, it started shooting again because of the plant-like seals inside it

[@Rexhunterj]

It's actually implied that many of the 'newer' model ruin machines are powered by Abyss Cores which are eternal power sources. Khaenri'ah looks to have already achieved storing energy as crystals like other ancient civilizations were able to, but it wasn't enough for them, they wanted/needed more power and Abyssal Reactors _seem_ to be the solution... But I bet that comes at a cost.

[@leskie5038]

That actually makes sense. Khaenriah was at the point of no salvation that Celestia decided to nuked it out along with its people. Maybe the gods have an argument about it. Maybe Zhongli dont want to talk because he supported it for the sake of his own people in Liyue. Maybe Makoto was killed because she is strictly against it or trying to stop it. Maybe Venti just go along with the flow or forced to. We dont know yet but its possible. Maybe its the reason Dain hold no grudge against the gods nor no love for them either. Nice theory.

[@terminator01456]

Yes...i think that Celestia is like a logic computer, maybe they knew what Ka'enriah was planning but when they failed and everything goes to sh*t they just started the Nuke.exe to fix the problem...maybe for them destroying 1 country is a little price to save all Teyvat.... Also i think the same about the Archons and Dain...

[@InactiveTwig]

I feel like Celestias the one who killed Guizhong as a way to kinda lure Morax, the strongest archon to attack khaenriah

[@Certifiedprecog27809]

@@InactiveTwig lol she's death long before calamity and zhongli never stated as the strongest archon because genshin would definitely give that title to pyro archon

[@InactiveTwig]

@@Certifiedprecog27809 I'm not talking about the calamity? I'm very educated on genshin lore lol, Celestias been a thing for long before the archon war. And they've been destroying nations for long before the archon war, Guizhongs death could have left some weight on Zhongli for them to manipulate or force him into committing bad acts in the future

[@InactiveTwig]

@@Certifiedprecog27809 Also I'm pretty sure Zhongli was the strongest of the archons during his prime. Not currently ofc, but during his prime he was a war god

[@averageotaku2281]

Didn't Pierro literally say the fatui's goal is to seize authority from the gods though? I don't think he was talking about the archons, but Celestia itself considering Celestia is the one with true authority over Teyvat.

[@TheCheeseman1983]

It’s difficult to say for certain, since the use of the words “gods”, “the Divine”, and “archons” is pretty arbitrary. “Archon” is only used in English translations, so it’s difficult to say whether there is much real meaning in referring to that title, specifically.

[@bunnyfuzzy7982]

@@TheCheeseman1983 It does have meaning, Archons are titles given to the Gods that control the 7 nations. We all know there are other gods above the Archons that reside in Celestia. It is unclear how many or how their methods of governance is. But, Celestia are hellbent on making sure the truth of the world before Celestia is not learned. Orobashi learned it and he was killed for it. The Tsaritsa is planning to rebel against Celestia and to do so she is collecting all of the archons' gnosis.

[@lordfritzropero3666]

@@TheCheeseman1983 archon I think refers to the 7 while God is loosely used to refer to powerful creatures with a people that revere them?

[@TheCheeseman1983]

@@lordfritzropero3666 In the English version of the game, “Archon” is the title for one of the Seven. However, this term only exists in English, other languages do not have a special word for members of the Seven, just referring to them as “gods”. There have been a few translation issues in the past where the term “Archon” was incorrectly used, such as Decarabian being called an Archon. Many of these have since been fixed in updates, but it does lead to some ambiguity in lore discussions.

[@kostuchan4418]

​@@TheCheeseman1983 That's not exactly true. CN and JP versions uses 魔神 (lit. Demon God) reffering to gods and 神 (lit. God) when reffering specifically to one of the Seven. Funny enough, EN version is the only one that translates it very loosely. For example, Morax is described as Geo Archon before Archon War (which in other languages is called Demon God War), thus before EN term Archon was supposed to be created.

[@di_sood]

This is why I love this game. The lore is so deep and the theories people come up with (even if they turn out to be wrong) are so interesting to think about.

[@EduardoWeidmanBarijan]

There is so much lore in Sumeru. They were not kidding when they said it was the land of wisdom afterall. The desert has so many secrets and yet another nation to speak of. I can't wait to see your theories regarding everything. Also the editing really improved. Way to go!

[@bunnyfuzzy7982]

If you look at the Achievements, they literally put "Sumeru: The Rainforest of Lore".

[@pineddew]

THIS IS WHY ILOVE SUMERU. and im indianmiddle eastern so i feel catered to.

[@aethernity8270]

​@@pineddewwow cool ur indian/middle eastern mix?

[@meanevie]

Imagine erosion is then Marana's curse towards immortals who defy "death" with their immortality. I love your videos! Your thoughts are so well explained

[@lavq7000]

I actually support that idea. The concept of 'true death' has been associated a Lot with the loss of memories and Marana. So far we know that erosion is heavily associated with the loss of memories (Zhongli quest and Azdaha). Which would suggest that 'erosion' is just another name for this fenomenom.

[@meanevie]

@@lavq7000 Right!! It would make sense with the given hypothesis

[@mon_moi]

Zhongli actually suggests that erosion is guaranteed by the Heavenly Principles, meaning that Celestia made erosion/true death a thing in teyvat

[@TheWorldThatYouWishFor]

I like this idea a lot 🔥

[@LuisSanchez-oo6he]

@@mon_moi is not suggested, zhongli literraly said that his erosion time was determined by the heavenly principles

[@Zeke1460]

Also I like to think that the elites of Khaenriah DID do something wrong. Or not necessarily the elites just a faction within the country. Eg: Khaenriah finds out celestia faked the sky and replaced the primordial one. Khaenriah decides to rebel against celestia. Khaenriah starts losing, evil faction reveals their trump card that causes the calamity and worldwide corruption.

[@Asm0sday]

Khaenri'ah didn't find out about fake sky(false theory) or anything,it was the sage and gold fault,creating abyss monster,the sage order them to attack. Peiro even said that the sage action were foolish in fatui

[@delphinium493]

@@Asm0sday We do know that Sages may be behind whatever happened to Khaenriah, but there is still zero confirmation that Gold was in on it to / was with the Sages. If anything, most of the sentences relating to Gold implies that they created the Abyss monsters during or after the fall of Khaenriah, for lust of power or desperation. We still lack any precise information of what the Sages *actually* did, to properly determine if their actions were justified or not. Though assuming Pierro 100% saw what they did, it was something „sinful“ in his eyes. Or sinful in terms of that the Sages did something where Celestia normally marked their limit i.e. wouldn‘t allow it, even if it is for the betterment of mankind itself. Even if Khaenriah (or rather the Elites are, I feel the common folk got dragged into their mess and couldn‘t help it) may have done something awful, Celestia isn‘t innocent on their part either. Since „destroying“(assumed) the Primordial One and claiming throne, they have nuked countless nations, because either one found the truth of them, or the other advanced in areas Celestia didn‘t like etc. so they aren‘t in the clear either.

[@someoneinasia]

if you notice, the people of khaenriah that celestia cursed turned into hilichurl. but the one that turned into abyssal monster (abyss mage, herald, husk etc) are not caused by celestia but rather khaenriah themself. since abyssal power is the enemy of celestia, celestia cannot use them.

[@kanishkjaiswal5088]

@@someoneinasia This implies that we will attack celestia with abyss and snezhnaya. That will be interesting to see.

[@someoneinasia]

​@@kanishkjaiswal5088 maybe but seriously when will traveler get a power buff, current traveler will get one shotted

[@SomewhereFireworks]

I have trouble believing the destruction of Khaenri'ah wasn’t the intended outcome of Celestia, considering Orobaxi’s fate and Ei’s quote of “I’ve seen a nation stride forward and lose everything to the heavenly principles” and the concept of the heavenly principles in general. Given, I also might have not payed enough attention to the video so if I’m missing anything that’s on me.

[@ReaperShadow23]

I think the Serpent guarding the World Pearl in the BP intro is either a metaphor for Marana choking the Irminsul, or an Avatar of Marana slowly draining the literal core of the Irminsul. I believe this same entity is the creature Ajax (Childe) met when he fell into the Abyss before Skirk saved him. So Childe may be key near endgame to finding the source of Marana and the World Pearl.

[@Rexhunterj]

Nah, Childe met the Will of Honkai/Abyss. It's established that Teyvat is a world in the same universe as Honkai Impact 3rd as in they are both world fruits hanging from the Imaginary Tree but like both at the stage where rot is beginning to set in. Honkai is just a manifestation of the Will of an entity whose sole mission is to prune dying/dead/rotting worlds from the Imaginary Tree, said individual is often depicted as depicting themselves as a copy of the person they interact with, but that the will is absolutely a single individual entity with a persona of its own, it has a bit of a sadistic side to it and is EXTREMELY manipulative and hostile towards humanity. What that individual's power manifests as in a world is up to that world, Abyss in Genshin Impact and Honkai in Honkai Impact 3rd

[@ReaperShadow23]

@@Rexhunterj I mean. Yes, it's pretty implied that Genshin is one of the bubble worlds...but hoyo hasn't confirmed anything yet. They could easily still debunk it, though it would anger alot of fans. That being said I don't think the Serpent is the same as the Will of Honkai. Honkai seems several levels higher than the Serpent.

[@supayambaek]

I was worried that this summary would cause people to skip the whole video, so yeah, I'm sorry.

[@Soneilly0930]

which is why I do question the kind of authority of the celestia isn't the gods and divines are who will decide the destiny of one's nations itself. I which is the concept of freedom and maintaining balance arguable enemies by their own philosophies and views in the worlds of teyvat

[@ongseungwu4311]

@@Soneilly0930 but celestia isn't the higher being. Yes they have the highest authority as of right now. I think celestia and the archons just made their own rules because they don't know what truly is the rule of the world. Their basically the religion of genshin impact like their making the answers to their own questions but isn't actually the answers. Cause if their really are the higher being why celestia didn't deal with the abyss when khaenriah is still dealing it? Why deal with it when it gotten a lot worse?

[@ongseungwu4311]

@@Soneilly0930 and from what we know the old civilization in dragonspine were having mutual conversation with celestia but then suddenly nuke their iriminsul tree? Why do you suddenly nuke your friend out of nowhere? The answer is the abyss. Like what they did with khaenri ah iriminsul they nuke it because of the abyss?? But why when they already know that it doesn't do anything to the abyss? Well because they don't have the answers for themselves the only thing that they could is that. This clearly tell that their not the highest beings in teyvat.

[@BlackGateofMordor]

The Seelie weren't cursed by the Abyss, or at least they weren't cursed in relation to the events surrounding Khaen'riah. The Seelie withered away (such interesting wording the game uses) about 6000 years ago when Celestia invaded.

[@straykids5110]

Tnx for the summary!

[@leturna9866]

The Ruin Golems are one of my absolute favorite things in the whole game. Just the very idea of them is chilling and incredible.

[@itss_starryy787]

I wanna believe that kheanriah was creating their own ignosis and celestia is like “personally I would not let that slide”

[@friendlygamers1743]

The notes of people slowly turning into Hilichurls are horrifying TwT I think that whatever Celestia did caused some kind of backlash, Or that there were some people in Khaenri'ah who were trying to use the abyss after the nuke. Maybe that's why the sustainer was angry at them. Not because they brought the abyss, but because they decided to use what Celestia had sealed to get their revenge for destruction of their nation

[@friendlygamers1743]

@Harry Shade no it's not. Eleazar doesn't have language impairment or visions of the cataclysm

[@harmonialarts]

Kudos to your new editor. They really went hard! The theory is certainly interesting and is starting to overlap with the honkai impact plot again. But the thing is that it seems like there's supposed to be some thing that 'triggered' the Marana to appear in the first place because as far as we know as of 3.1, the Scarlet King was responsible for bringing the marana to Sumeru and because of this Rukkhadevata sacrificed herself Guoba style. I was thinking... (dangerous I know) but what if Rukkahdevata's sacrifice ended up infecting the Irminsul? Since her conscoiusness is connected to it and all that. It might have been destiny if such a thing was inevitable. Kinda off topic but I'm guessing that burning the tumor within the Irminsul is Dottore's plan with Scaramouche as our chief arsonist/botanical surgeon? Another thing: why hasn't the withering manifested outside of Sumeru if the infection is within the Irminsul itself? We know King Deshret was responsible for manifesting it in the first place, but why hasn't it spread to other nations? Is it the absence of a fully grown god/archon the reason? Is it why their making an artificial God? We know the Sacred Sakura could be managing the withering in Inazuma. But I'm not sure what's keeping Liyue or Mondstat safe, but its possible the celestial nail is responsible. Or maybe in later patches the withering will start appearing in other nations because I highly doubt they'll cure the Irminsul at the end of the Sumeru chapter or if ever. I feel like there will be no way of curing the Irminsul kinda like there's no cure for honakai. Anyway yeah, Khaenri'ah is not bad. Was never bad. Everyone is a victim of the Cataclysm/Marana/Abyss.

[@darkomiku8902]

Yeah, inazuma have their version of Marana, Mondstadt have Dragonspine and Liyue have Chasm, which seems to be their version of Marana that got controlled. Also, since the first time we touch the statue of the seven Paimon asked if this statue was Rukkhadevata or Kusanali. Then the "world... forget me..." line has the same VA as Nahida. And a bunch of people wondering how the sages knew Nahida was the dendro archon. The answer was pretty obvious that Nahida has the same appearance than Rukkhadevata. But I would have never guessed that Rukkhadevata sacrificed herself Guoba style and is the same person as Nahida. That is why the sages knew Nahida was the dendro archon.

[@LuisSanchez-oo6he]

@@darkomiku8902 Dragonpine is not a version of Marana, Dragonspine was an old civilization that was destroyed by the fall of the pillar we lift in the quest, and the chasm was the place were Liyue contain some abyssal monsters, they are not places that are infected by themselves like those zones of inazuma or sumeru

[@lahie16]

@@LuisSanchez-oo6he Dragonspine and the Chasm both have celestial nails though. At one time, there definitely had been Marana in those places, especially during the cataclysms 500 years ago, but most of it is long gone and the celestial nails' presence maybe helps that. As for Inazuma, Ashikai mentioned what happened with the sacred Sakura tree being tainted. That was likely another form of Marana that happened to manifest differently.

[@terminator01456]

i think that the Marana just contaminates the Irminsul and when is full it becomes the door to the Marana, we saw the Irminsul underground so maybe the roots reach to the Abyss and when that happens the contamination starts...i believe is a very slow process and the Missions from Inazuma and Enkanomiya are rituals to avoid the withering, In Inazuma we are explained that "The roots of the Sacred Sakura and the Thunder Sakura are all interconnected, and, should the roots be polluted, the filth will spread among all the roots. If too much filth accumulates, the polluted roots will be corroded and these tainted sections will form tumors and, if left unchecked, the Sacred Sakura will wither away which would be catastrophic for Inazuma. Thus it becomes necessary to routinely perform a Cleansing Ritual"...this means that the tree starts to ooze Marana and Beast start to appear, like we saw in Raiden's history An we go to Enkanomiya because "Every few thousand of years, Enkanomiya begins to bleach Watatsumi Island's soil, which would endanger the island and slowly turn it into desert if not dealt with accordingly"...this is what's happening right now in Sumeru We have been seeing the Marana in other places is just that in Sumeru is more direct, maybe is worst because they don't have cleansing rituals and Kusanali doesn't have the power to do what Rukkhadevata did or doesn't know how to do it...

[@TheCheeseman1983]

@@terminator01456 The bleaching of Watatsumi island is a separate issue that doesn’t appear to be related to Marana or the Abyss. It seems to be the fault of the Vishaps, which were the original inhabitants of what would later be Enkanomiya, and by extension, Watatsumi. In fact, from the story of the Three Realms Gateway event, the Abyss appears to be just as deadly to dragonkin as it is to humans, but was prevented from gaining foothold in Enkanomiya.

[@404nm]

TLDR: I feel like some of your answers could be answered if you look at the "Wuxia" genre which I'm guessing Mihoyo took some inspiration from. If you know about this, just don't bother reading the essay below. The basic plot of a wuxia novel starts with the protagonist, usually a mortal born in a lower world that somehow obtains special powers or was born with them. They then travel on the path of becoming an immortal, someone who stands at the apex and wields mystical powers that mortals could never dream of. They do this through cultivation and level up through stages (think Dragonball, Super Saiyan -> Super Saiyan 2). Authors often make their own stage names, but most follows the similar pattern of: Mortal -> Basic Body Refining (think just normal martial arts) -> Soul or Qi Refining (taking in the energy from the world into their bodies) (Houtian realm) -> Breaking through to the basic "God" realm where they can do things like fly and use magical like skills (Xiantian realm). This is the starting line. Even within these realms, there are sub-stages that a cultivator must go through. For example for someone who just broke through to the Xiantian realm, let's just call it Xiantian stage 1, there are 2 more stages, Xiantian stage 2 and 3, with each stage being stronger than the last. Some of my thoughts are that the gods/adepti/other beings of Teyvat are in this Xiantian realm albeit maybe in different sub-stages. (Perhaps if there other beings in Celestia they are in the highest realm) Next the protagonist may realise that the world they were born in was simply a lower world, where the "Dao laws" are less abundant and to go to the next stage, where they "ascend" to a higher world by breaking through the firmament. In the higher world, Xiantian realm cultivators are like mortals and the protagonist must again cultivate to the next stages to grow stronger until he reaches the apex. This is a basic wuxia story. (As a side note, ascending to a higher realm is always easier than descending from a higher realm to a lower realm, often whomever descends are restricted to the lower realms laws and they cannot use all their powers) The protagonist battle other cultivators along the path of the "Dao" and can come across treasures. These treasures are often the result of a higher stage cultivator, dying and dropping their weapons or knowledge intentionally for some lucky person to inherit. The higher stage cultivator often times, makes a domain (a separate dimension) where these cultivators can battle to see who gets the treasure. (I always thought this is where Genshin got the domain idea from, it has a lot of parallels. I also thought it is extremely similar to how Zhongli knows how to create these domains like the teapot) Also where do they store these treasures? In special rings that are created with a similar method to domains, often called "Space rings". They can hold vast amounts of anything, however it can't be a living creature. Parallels directly with our inventory in game which the traveler often says can hold pretty much anything. I could go on and on about the parallels but here are some that I found similar. For more information on terms just search "Glossary of Terms in Wuxia, Xianxia & Xuanhuan Novels"

[@vans2548]

C U L T I V A T E more seriously, yeah, would like if Ashikai looked not just at Gnosticism and historical texts, but also other media and stories from other genres of fiction and other games. Mihoyo as otaku and gamers themselves took a lot of inspiration from those as well.

[@Ashikai]

Man, I can't cover everything. There's not enough time. :/

[@jjmitchell14]

A little off topic but I’m still shook from my revelation from last night when I was reading a slavic mythology book that Marana is a direct reference to the slavic goddess for winter, night, and _death_ . I of course didn’t catch this earlier because my subgroup of slavs called her Morana with an ‘o’ (every subgroup has a different name variation for each god) 🥴 It just makes me very happy knowing just how wide mihoyo’s inspiration sources are to include even something as obscure and poorly known as slavic mythology (first Azhdaha, now Marana) 🥰

[@mon_moi]

Correction: It is true there is a dark goddess name Morana in Slavic myths but the word 'marana' is a Sanskrit word meaning death. It is etymologically connected to Morana (as well as other Indo-European words for death, like Latin mors). Also Azhdaha features in Slavic myths? I thought azhdaha is a Persian dragon based on what I read on wikipedia

[@sylvarogre5469]

@@mon_moi There are some similarities between Slavic and Iranian (Persian) languages, so shared stories or names aren't surprising, even if rare. It's pretty cool when seemingly different groups of people turn out to be related in subtle ways or share stories that developed long before either group developed to survive in different lands and times. It is nice to find we are really one big human tribe after all.

[@pineddew]

winter (tsaritsa) night (moon) and death (marana). hm... the fatui, gods, and the abyss?

[@Gnidel]

If Abyss is death, could be possible that there is no death without Abyss? That means that if Nails repel Abyss even from living beings, who would normally die because of traces of Abyss within them, then removing all Abyss from them would result in "cursing" them with immortality. However, that doesn't stop the process of absorption of memories by Lay Lines, resulting in loss of mind over time.

[@GeneSysFNLT]

The way you describe the Night Mother, it makes me think about the Herrscher of Corruption. I know that Hi3 and Genshin are their own stories, but perhaps they're contained stories within a bigger universe, and the thing that ties them together is the Corruption/Marana that all these mini universes have to face.

[@notmaylea]

same thoughts! ^^ it makes a lot of sense for bubble universes to be subject to the same rule since they are interconnected in the same World Tree

[@Rexhunterj]

The company rebranded itself to Hoyoverse, which is essentially the name of their self contained universe. HI3 established a lot of lore for how this universe works. You can imagine it as a big magical tree there are no leaves on said tree, just fruits and each fruit is a precious jewel but eventually as all things do, the fruit will wither and eventually rot, sometimes the fruit refuses to fall and instead clings... this is a risk to the other fruit as the rot can spread... Honkai is described as a force directed by a singular entity with the sole goal/purpose of pruning dying/rotting worlds from the Imaginary Tree I just described. Teyvat is suggested to be an artificially created Bubble World on the same Imaginary Tree that Honkai Impact 3rd exists on, the reason for Teyvat being artificial is that the "Primordial One" created the realm we get to explore as a cradle/ark for humanity to live in, a realm of light and dark. Said Primordial One seems to be connected to the main characters, Aether and Lumine of Genshin Impact who apparently smell of Stars and cosmic dust. Abyss is definitely the manifestation of Honkai in Teyvat, it's just that what Honkai looks like changes from world to world as each world is special and unique and needs a special touch to be dealt with. The fundamental abilities of Abyss/Honkai are the same, when humans are in close contact with it and don't immediately succumb to it, they talk about how they can hear a voice, some people can have conversations with said voice, but ultimately they fall to the corruption and die or worse. Abyssal mud is essentially pseudo-liquid Abyssal Energy and ordinary humans cannot come into contact with raw elemental energy as it is toxic to them, the same can be said for Abyssal Energy though there seem to be added effects on top of that.

[@elderroll4017]

in hi3, forgot the chapter, Otto was looking on a screen with images from different universe from the tree. one of the images is dvalin.

[@seawolf9959]

So something has been bothering me, in Albedo's first story quest he said he can give the traveler the answer to the question they are seeking, so does that mean Albedo knows the abyss twin? There wasn't any question the traveler was asking in this quest other than that of the sibling unless there was a translation error.

[@AleASanti-mw5wv]

I also believe Khaenri'ah had more than one faction, Kaeya's family is one (that worked as regents i think?), the ones that messed up everything is another, then there is the rest of the people that just lived there...

[@Sacration]

And Rhinedottir aka gold

[@TiaTam]

The Alberich Clan (Kaeya's family) stepped up as regents in place of the king of Kaenri'ah when he grew weak

[@notmaylea]

there's the royal family (ex: King Irmin), the advisers/sages (ex: Pierro), the royal guard (ex: Captain Dainsleif), concepts of clans (ex: Alberich Clan), and the normal citizens (hilichurls). Gold/Rhinedottir is an alchemist with the skills to create life (Durin, Albedo, etc.).

[@Rexhunterj]

@@notmaylea Gold was King Irmin's Royal Alchemist so they answered to him directly, we can all but assume they, like the sages and King are corrupted by the Abyss. Neither Alice nor Albedo really knows where Gold is or what happened to them.

[@kinokochouchou]

I did not expect this quest go the way went, but it was very good. aranara questlines so far are my favourite in the game

[@crt137]

This theory aged quite well given the lore of the 3.6 world quest

[@jonathanwilson5355]

OOOHH We be defending Khaenri’ah huh? I haven’t gotten the chance to explore the massive forest golem yet, but I’m super excited to watch this!!

[@ashishitD]

The ruin golem in the desert fortifies my theory dat hilichurls r suffering from. Elezar and celestian curse of immortality Inside the golem u can find notes that kkhanrians start getting symptoms of elezar on entering the desert.......they were transporting civilians and eliminating abyssal monsters..........heading away from the desert.......and Just note the fact............in the lore......it's said dat........in cataclysm archons went to khanriah......and dendro archon "died"....but in the golden slumber quest.......is said dat deshrat accessed forbidden knowledge and unleashed elezar on his ppl Khanriah was caught up In that as they were helping deshrat get this knowledge......but in turn provoked celestian wrath and not only got celestian curse but also elezar..........immortality along with elezars dark scaling on skin..........THEY HAVE SUFFERED A MILLINIA from these 2 curses But deshrats ppl only got elezar.....for wutever reason TO FIX THE ISSUE KUSANALI CAME AND EXHAUSTED HER ALL GODHIOD TO CURE THE LAND..........and lost her God hood and became a child......ie rukkadevata DIED......... DOESNT DAT MEAN DAT KHANRIAH WAS IN THE DESERT WHERE DESHRSTS KINGDOM WAS? I mean all the ruin machines in the desert has hilichurls bodies around them.i think they were programmed to kill anything that has a abyssal energy signature THE northern part of the desert has a suspecious looking giga sandstorm tornado I speculate dats where khanriahs entrance is.....

[@ashishitD]

Khanrians were just evacuating ppl out if the desert......and eliminating any abyssal creature released from the event I think deshrats elezar corruption incident and cataclysm is one and the same In both......cataclysm and to cure deshrats kingdom........rukkadevata "died" How can 1 God die twice? It's not ..........it's dat the 2 places are one and the same Deshrats kingdom is where all the archon came to destroy the source of tbr problem.........it WAS WHERE khanrian contacted deshrat

[@Internextion]

@@ashishitD bro why do you talk like ......... lmao

[@muir9257]

@@Internextion shhhh................ let them have their suspense!!!! lmaoo

[@nooonanoonung6237]

@@ashishitD My brain broke reading your english

[@mochimonika]

The way you talk about how Marana is kinda sentient in some way reminds me of will of Honkai. Marana has its avatars - Honkai has its herrschers (how the hell is that spelled?), and since Honkai and Genshin *are* connected I feel like this makes a lot of sense! I haven't played Honkai, just heard many things about the plot, so I'm not very sure on this, but that's what I noticed.

[@shuragaming4836]

You got the spelling right, and yes dear. Teyvat is subjected to Honkai Authority but in genshin its called Abyss/Marana or whatever the natives of Teyvat call it.

[@renan-elias13]

Using Yanfei as your "avatar" since you can act like khaenriah defense attorney is really funny.

[@princ3ss_fschl195]

And what if Celestia and Khaenri'ah had a contract? They worked together to destroy the abyssal gunk, and then they live in peace. But when Khaenri'ah was destroyed, the abyss twin took a huge offense, and worked with the abyss to get revenge on Celestia to destroy the very thing they ruled over?

[@princ3ss_fschl195]

idk man i just finished the video, this still makes sense??

[@robdotgif]

I have to say i really apreciate the little version numbers before title. Saves me a lot of of checking for dates and dread from not always having done the most recent quests

[@vinbali3348]

In a race for farming artifacts and collecting & leveling up characters, we have forgotten the most important purpose of being there in genshin impact.... that is to live a story. Good job bringing it back to light.

[@mllewhimsy1161]

Just wanted to say props to whoever edited this, great job!

[@nekokoishi]

I remember that on the giant desert ruin robot world quest. The researcher mentioned that the giant robots were used to fight against a the monsters of the Abyss.

[@valivan5083]

This is so very interesting tbh. I've been thinking we've been in a gray area of who's to blame for this war. They say history is written by the victors, but i dont think this is entirely the case for the cataclysm. It was such a chaotic time, and I think as time went on the truth was twisted down the grape vine. personality i think Rhinedottir, is more connected to the corruption than we think. Maybe she even merged/sided with the Marana which is why monsters like the rifthounds were said to be her creations set out into the abyss/Khaenriah so violently. And maybe, Albedo was her attempt to redeem herself, as he is supposed to be in likeness to how she looked. along with giving him all her knowledge on Khaemia. Albedo could have been a way for Rhinedorrir to be "reborn", similar to Ei and Scaramouche's situation. This could also be why she dropped Albedo off with Alice, and disappeared because the corruption was finally overwhelming her, just like the rest of Khaenriah. Albedo knows nothing more about khaenriah, just as much as everyone else, but he was also tasked with finding the "truth" of the world, just like the Abyss Twin said to Traveler. The more that we learn about these ruin machines, the closer we could come to figuring out what truly happened 500 years ago, and this is most likely why the Akademya has banned research on ruin machines. These machines hold forbidden knowledge within their creation, a truth that maybe Teyvat isn't ready for. And maybe that truth is the Marana has been festering, growing in the abyss, and now is strong enough to take over the overworld. Without Khaenriah's defenses Teyvat is left vulnerable and the only thing Celestia can do is drop a nail down to purify severely damaged areas, but even that comes with the cost of destroying/warping whatever is there. My idea of how things went is as follows: Khaenriah was a nation founded long before Celestia. Possibly fighting a forever losing battle with such fierce corruption with such advanced technology for its time. Along that path, on of their greatest minds, and renowned alchemist, succumbed to the corruption creating an outbreak that went across the three realms, destroying everything in its path. Celestia had no problems with the Abyss or Khaenriah up until this event, and enlisted their archons to help battle this common enemy. In the end both sides suffered greatly in this war and Khaenriah was quickly falling. So a loyal, trusted knight of the royal family seeked out Celestia and asked them to please, end the suffering of his people, they have the power to do so; an artificial version of the upside down fountain water in the Chasm. And so, Celestia did. Maybe they dropped a nail, or something even stronger onto the nation of Khaenriah ending the war instantly. This knight went on to be called a traitor by the remnants of his people, a lone soldier now keen on stopping a ridiculous attempt to revive his homeland because, he out of everyone, knows for a fact that Khaenriah is gone. Everytime i comment on one of your videos I also write an essay lmao. But it's always fun to share theories. Especially when they involve Dain. I feel like this is why Dain holds a distaste for the Archons (not necessarily Celestia), but is firmly against the Abyss Order. And could possibly explain the "it" that slows the curse? Maybe it was a gift from Celestia for such a painful decision, and allowed Dain to fight against the Abyss Order.

[@mendelynn]

*Heizou voice* "It's all coming together now..." Thank you for taking the deep dive into the lore so that I don't have to. This was a very interesting video - your theory makes so much sense! I'm curious as to how it will turn out in the end but I think many of your ideas go in the right direction. Also, compliments to the editor. This was so well done. *chef's kiss* *still laughs thinking about "the Light and Shadow*

[@swtormadness]

It is scary how this video made me think that it kind of may explain why Flower Goddess died. I do not have all the lore yet. I didn't have time to truly explore Summeru so I dunno if reason for her death was given. But if she was a Seelie, and she fell in love with Nara (and I assume Gods count as Nara too) then she just... withered. And Paimon, if she is a Seelie too, is only safe as long as she won't fall in love with Nara. It doesn't even have to be specific Nara. I think the concept of "love for humanity" applies too. Imagine that you fall in love with a Seelie, and your Seelie partner loves you back, and they suddenly start withering. They start loosing intelligence and memories and everything until they become a little bulb that makes cute noises. And it is literally the only thing that is left out of your loved one. (I am picturing someone holding a Seelie in their hands and crying). I am a sucker for drama. I can see Scarlet King weeping over the little bulb of Seelie that was left of his beloved.

[@EmaA-pu7nc]

There's a theory going around where Paimon is apparently a Seelie. She clearly adores the traveler, and they're kinda like siblings. It probably doesn't need to be a romantic sort of love, so... Hoo, it's gonna be tragic.

[@bermudaguitar]

your theory definitely makes a lot of sense and I bet later on in the story of Genshin, this will be confirmed. I love this game and thank Hoyoverse for such a wonderful experience for the past 2 years in Teyvat

[@shadeofthenight8988]

2 hours left to wait but that quest made me think that what tayvat thought was Khaenri’ah attacking was actually just the aftermath of Khaenri’ah being destroyed coming over and it was never really a war. Not directly related but It also made me wonder if the ruined guards default programming was to be robotic defenders of Khaernri’ah city’s and are programmed to recognize the architecture and authorized personnel. Because if so that’s the reason that they are always by the ruins because they look similar.

[@darkdude1996ify]

They're called Ruin Guards because they seem to be, y'know, guarding ruins, so I guess that theory checks out

[@KoiinuNe]

interesting!

[@emems6620]

The editing cracked me up omg + also I felt so stupid as I didn’t think of the marana avatar as durin omggggg😮

[@Zeke1460]

I have no clue what this theory will be but I enjoy your style of theory video so I already dropped a like.

[@gartheprofitabletrader392]

I always believe that the siblings were denied passage out from Teyvat by the Sustainer because they are likely used to be some sort of Panacea or medicine for the world that is slowly dying. The sibling true power is that of light so it makes sense that they can fight the abbys which is the darkness. And light which is if broken up turns to 7 different colours (elements). Having knowing this fact the gods know the siblings will attempt to re-gain their power by going trough each 7 region of Teyvat and while doing so they will encounter (or forced to) various types of world issues and end up solving them. Celestia know this and is taking advantage of it. Think it like if you are somehow got to a bad accident the doctors will patch the small wounds first before going to the larger ones like broken bones or such. This is so that when the siblings claimed their true power and ready to be used to fight the real issue which is the abbys the world is already patched up and ready to take on the beating. Only.. At the end of the journey the traveller's sibling found out that the source of the world destruction are the same thing they are trying to save and they are being used by the gods so that they (the siblings) can delay it (the destruction) and celestia can continue ruling for a bit longer. The siblings are possibly not the only other world traveller and there are many more before them being used the same way. Once the other sibling came to know this they decide to fight Celestia instead and side with the abbys.

[@KoiinuNe]

that would be interesting!

[@Catsixpk]

when the siblings gain the light power by collect 7 elements. then will be a time we can summon gacha lumine and aether with light element.

[@mitacestalia7532]

I think the siblings are the only other world traveller, but hear me out, Celestia put them in a loop instead of trapping other new traveller so the siblings lost each other happens several times already. Each loop Lumine and Aether exchange roles where sometimes Lumine in abbys side and sometimes Aether in abbys side. Let's just face it, if I found God traps me in eternal loop where I lost my sibling several times to save the world, I will go to the dark side as well.

[@mitacestalia7532]

@@Catsixpk Everyone finally will build the MC 😂

[@gartheprofitabletrader392]

@@mitacestalia7532 During the Arayanka questline we are told that the Seelie race was doomed by a curse due to one of them fell in love with a "Traveller" long ago. Although it was not mentioned explicitly (at least from what i can remember) that the person is of otherworldly origin but i think Hoyoverse seems to emphasize the "Traveller" word to a specific type of character in game, which was those who can travel cross worlds. Initially i think it was the other sibling but i soon realize that the Aranara have a very specific name for the twin which is weird for them to suddenly change it on a whim. There are people who go around the world of Teyvat traveling and doing stuffs of legends but they are simply called Adventurer. Alice was rumored to be capable of traveling to other world but she is still called an adventurer, probably because it was not yet confirmed? The other sibling also clearly state that their journey is the same. That indicates that they are in a re-play type of situation which enforces the loop theory but only up untill a certain point IMO. The traveller already experiencing bad effects from just the repetition of Subzeru Festival given how tough they are. I would imagine being in a loop on a World scale would give a mental stress significantly worse and at some point they will die and another traveller is needed to replace them. Thus Aether and Lumine is just one of those unlucky worldly traveler cought in a big trap but because they are twins and they did not do the travel together one of them manage to realize this and tried to fight it.

[@presmadagascar]

Another thing that stood out to me is how the notes inside the golem mention dying "in a foreign land", which makes twice that that's been mentioned recently in addition to Winter Night's Lazzo and a third overall including Venti's story quest. And sure, maybe there's some concern for dying outside the lands under protection by your archon in Mondstadt and Snezhnaya's case but Khaenriah doesn't have one of those, so why do they care?

[@Rexhunterj]

In the absence of gods they became Atheists likely but Teyvat is a world of magic and mystery at its core, look at the Ley Lines for instance, any human could easily believe that leaving the home nation they were born in is risky because you leave the place you forged so many memories that the Ley Lines have absorbed. It's likely the concept of death and not returning properly comes originally from a past nation's understanding of the Ley Lines and how they store/carry memories and that true death is when you are no longer remembered.

[@inthenameofcontractlendmem983]

My own wild theory is that the disease that Collei and Dunyazard are suffering from is the same one Khanerians suffered and they are slowly turning into Hilichurls.

[@ashishitD]

The ruin golem in the desert fortifies my theory dat hilichurls r suffering from. Elezar and celestian curse of immortality Inside the golem u can find notes that kkhanrians start getting symptoms of elezar on entering the desert.......they were transporting civilians and eliminating abyssal monsters..........heading away from the desert.......and Just note the fact............in the lore......it's said dat........in cataclysm archons went to khanriah......and dendro archon "died"....but in the golden slumber quest.......is said dat deshrat accessed forbidden knowledge and unleashed elezar on his ppl Khanriah was caught up In that as they were helping deshrat get this knowledge......but in turn provoked celestian wrath and not only got celestian curse but also elezar..........immortality along with elezars dark scaling on skin..........THEY HAVE SUFFERED A MILLINIA from these 2 curses But deshrats ppl only got elezar.....for wutever reason TO FIX THE ISSUE KUSANALI CAME AND EXHAUSTED HER ALL GODHIOD TO CURE THE LAND..........and lost her God hood and became a child......ie rukkadevata DIED......... DOESNT DAT MEAN DAT KHANRIAH WAS IN THE DESERT WHERE DESHRSTS KINGDOM WAS? I mean all the ruin machines in the desert has hilichurls bodies around them.i think they were programmed to kill anything that has a abyssal energy signature THE northern part of the desert has a suspecious looking giga sandstorm tornado I speculate dats where khanriahs entrance is.....

[@IAmDeadBread]

This theory has much more weight as of the new Cariber archon quest, as it's said that Khaenri'ah was beneath Sumeru

[@theotakufangirl]

My brain has once again exploded in a good way from another Ashikai theory. Honestly I feel like the key to the answers for Khaenri'ah is Kaeya. He knows far to much and is never EVER going to tell us until we get closer to the end of the game, so another 4-5 years.

[@Mmmattm11]

Not related to the topic of the video but this was SO well edited! Your timing with Yanfei’s expressions is impeccable and your multiple character scenes are so interesting and fun to watch! It’s nice seeing the characters “interact” keep up the great work!!

[@marc5020]

The more I play genshin... The more I realize that there is no such thing as hero and villain

[@raedentan1349]

I am constantly impressed by how these predictions turn out to be true. It was even confirmed in the Pari quest that the ruin machines were fighting the Abyssal corruption.

[@Cookiette1]

I love how this video is edited and how the other characters just come from time to time to like check up on you/Yanfei if you've gone insane or something

[@Sa1lormini]

I LOVE THE WAY THIS VIDEO IS EDITED, THE DARK CAVE WITH PERHAPS DISCORD MODS AND THE GUN SHOOTING IS SO GOOFY

[@protagkun8859]

If you read the info for the Aeonblight drake on the map, it says "This mechanical monstrosity seems to be proof that the now destroyed realm had reached heights that mortals should never have"

[@AndrewManook]

Which makes Celestia the bad guy

[@corgiteehee9870]

every new ashikai video is like my birthday! they light up the already engaging story! I hope you're loving the sandy sand land as much as I am

[@kalishaka]

This broke my brain for a moment, and then when my brain rebooted, I got suddenly terrifyingly excited. This notion that the nails are used to keep the Abyss/Marana away, made me think of the things the islanders say at the beginning of the Tsurumi Island quest. Because the civilization of Sal Vindagnyr, The Chasm, and the pre-Thunderbird Civilization are definitely connected see murals. When Kito and Kina are talking about the murals they say "...This is what the ancient world looked like before it was swallowed up by THE darkness" followed by "The Great Thunderbird created the Sea of Fog such that THE darkness would lose it's way and become unable to enter the island" and Roo makes a point of noting later on that the Island had been limited in what could access it, only having really one main animal type on it. Abe and Ona mention that people could leave but never return. Since we didn't find a nail at Tsurumi, but it had all the evidence that it would likely NEED one, maybe the fog created by The Thunderbird was another option/alternative making it likely that throwing the nails really was more "Last Resort" than remnants of war.

[@KoiinuNe]

oh the connection!

[@enteryourname4586]

Ngl this editing is amazing I love it so much im rolling on the floor every 5 mins and my attention is 108% on the screen

[@aranara_song]

This is such an interesting take on the lore! It's such an interesting perspective. I can't wait for another Dainsleif quest aaaaa

[@cursedcat7878]

the editing in this video is delicious

[@lycor]

I like how you used 'maa kali' as a representation of the night mother which litteraly means 'Black mother'

[@sparklingmomo2721]

she might have just searched it up and used the first pic as the refference but its hillarious how similar marana and maa kali areee oh god

[@Ashikai]

Kali was deliberate. I mentioned her by name in the video a couple times.

[@CryptidFlame]

As more and more lore drops, ur theories seem to become more and less crackpot. Love to see it

[@thecoolerdefaultpfpuser3508]

I want these Ruin Golems fights with Osial with a Pacific Rim theme song

[@geographytrueskills3333]

You just changed my whole pov towards celestia fatui the Abyss order and the world of teyvat

[@Elbylicious]

Huge props to TXR! The editing in this video was really fun, fast paced and engaging. I like the meme-y flavor of it. It must've been a lot of work. Now for the video, it's an interesting idea! I hope Hoyo doesn't pull a Dottore plague mask and goes for the most obvious and boring solution 😂 so far we don't really have enough information, I think. Especially about Khaenri'ah and it's survivors. Like Kaeya: we know he's a spy, but what's the goal of his mission? What are Pierro's thoughts and motivations to devote his life to the Tsaritsa, create the Fatui and collect the gnosises? There's a lot of speculation, but nothing with solid confirmation. Things in the future are about to become interesting! There's a noticeable increase in mentions of Khaenri'ah, due to the Academia and it's research, so I'm hopeful that during 3.x we'll learn more.

[@Rexhunterj]

Kaeya actually is a former spy, he gave that life up and is now fully the adopted sibling of Master Diluc, after Diluc's father died, what happened to Diluc helped make Kaeya make a decision and he decided that Mondstadt was truly his home and that he'd do whatever he could to assist his brother from then on. In the manga he actually offers Diluc the chance to fight him to let his brother _vent_ the frustrations out, to help his brother out. Likely later on when we start to get closer to Khaenri'ah and uncovering the Alberichs, he'll assist us in that, it's clear he knows more about what is going on in the world than he lets on, just that he obviously doesn't know everything as he's really just a grunt.

[@omi6172]

Here's Ashikai giving Hoyo more plot ideas for the game. Good work!

[@tuxmaceo2020]

Your explanation literally reads like a proof. The logic and reasoning are tight and I am now 100% convinced Khaneriah/Celestia were never at war. One thing I’m thinking is that Celestia is “asleep” in the way that Elysia/Flamechasers exist(well, did exist) in the Elysian Realm and may be why they haven’t shown any signs of activity since after the cataclysm.

[@Afbuster]

I think if "the truth" Sibling learnt really was just about how inseparable is Marana from Irminsul, they wouldn't go on a war like that. No reason to. That's more of Dainsleif place, I think, and they disagreed with each other. I think there may be a good solution to the marana, if not really truly permanent. Plant the new world tree. Like in Aranyaka, but on a scale of the whole world. Have someone bear witness to all what teyvat is, collect all the memories, and have them use that power to become the new Irminsul. The traveler is the new tree.

[@ChaosFlute]

New Ashikai theory, time to have my mind blown again! And my compliments to your editor, because this video's editing was SHARP. I loved it. This definitely would explain Dainsleif's odd stance. Ahh, I'm really going to have to think about this one.

[@TerraSwallows]

My hot take is that Khaenriah was doing alchemy which somewhat goes against the whole ashes to ashes logic that the world followed (basically you are born from the earth and when you die you return to the earth). Now this started draining responses or went against the whole recycling system the world had always followed which affected the archons and stuff. Celestia stepped in and stopped them as the archon didn't want to or couldn't get involved or something. I figure a great loss of life would counteract the amount taken by the Khaenrian's through their whole alchemy thing. But on the same note maybe in a last ditch effort to try and preserve their people they did the whole turn our people into hillitrols that could hold onto the information for eternity as they didn't want it to be lost.

[@Gabrie.l]

well, what if Celestia actually DID target khaenriah because they were trying to seize the skyfrost nail (or any other property of Celestia) to fight the marana, getting the concept of "arrogation of mankind" into the whole scene

[@FromTheRiverToTheSea]

The editing is insanely good gj txr fr

[@stephanprokop907]

i joined someone on coop to explore, and we found a humongous ruin gard that shoots at you, it’s so much fun

[@ArcadiumSol]

Fun fact: I learned a few days ago while playing, the common agreed upon believe inside the game is that teyvat is flat because there is a researcher in sumeru that questions out loud "what if teyvat is round".

[@Ashikai]

I think that's more paralleling the fact that there was a very lengthy period of time or academics believed the world was flat and it couldn't be anything else and that there was nothing beyond the endless oceans.

[@serenitymercer]

This really makes me wonder more about Childe. If the Abyss Lectors are ones who accepted Marana into their hearts, what does that mean for Childe's Foul Legacy form? Childe's voice line about Signora says, "When you're a Harbinger, you have to accept that death could come at any time..." I find this quite interesting, it seems to imply that he has accepted death. So perhaps he has accepted death/Marana, just not into his heart. I'm not sure, I'm kind of just word vomiting and hoping this makes sense lol Edit: Just thought about how hydro is very much a healing element, and I believe every hydro character except for Childe can heal at least a little (Mona and Ayato though the correct weapon iirc). What if Childe does use his hydro vision to heal, but he just has to heal himself internally because of the Marana. I mean, his Foul Legacy form can only be sustained for so long and it takes a lot out of him.

[@ooo1o8o1]

I think hydro is not only for healing, maybe justice? Both childe and ayato had hard time at young age and with their hydro vision they were able to get stronger and bring justice for themselves

[@serenitymercer]

@@ooo1o8o1 yeah, for sure. It's absolutely about justice as well! This just made me think of a different aspect

[@OneRadicalDreamer]

This game is quickly inching towards Honkai and Herrscher parallels and I am absolutely here for it. Thank you for your in depth analysis, I love the lore for this game and you do a fantastic job clarifying it, easiest sub I've ever given.

[@BanjoGate]

Ashikai is such a wholesome bundle of joy no matter what she talks about. I'm glad that someone like you are so deep into lore, it makes Genshin a pleasure to watch even when it becomes a grindy bore

[@Carrum250]

This editing is INSANE 😂

[@raytock567]

If "everything that comes from the sea, returns to the sea". Does that mean we can yeet paimon back into the ocean eventually?

[@toxicsamantha2135]

14:45 this is peak comedy holy- I'm saving this to return to later.

[@amorimjt]

Thx members… the editing in this video is so damn good. So dynamic, so engaging. Thanks Ashikai for all the incredible mind breaking work you are doing putting this insane puzzle together. Question for the community… am I the only one to watch Ashikai videos at least 3 times?

[@tbonehavoc]

Okay. The use of ingame animations for machinima is INCREDIBLE. The angles and synchronization all come together so well. Gotdang this is a crazy good video. 1000/10

[@Xelonir]

Afratus in the desert tells us that Khaenri'ah built the three ruin giants to fight the black goo coming from the ground. I was initially a bit puzzled when the Aranara said that Nara Varuna helped them fight the black stuff, but now it makes sense. As an underground nation, Khaenri'ah was actually most likely to be attacked first by the black stuff coming from below. Though this does not rule out that something someone in Khaenri'ah did was the reason/trigger for that (Rhinedottir, some Alkemia stuff...).

[@moss_soft]

I'm wondering where is 3rd ruin giant bcs we only have 2 for now

[@UberWraith]

@@moss_soft Sumeru's map is still incomplete, I guess we will see the third Golem in a future release.

[@moss_soft]

@@UberWraith maybe in diff region, bcs if all of them in sumeru I'm wandering why too

[@thebakalord]

I can imagine that due to the corruption of the Abyss, that the Greater Lord Rukkhadevata sensed that the power of the Abyss concentrated in the Desert and so to protect those who lived there, she went to the Desert just before she came back to Sumeru. She knew that the forbidden knowledge and Eleazar would have spread far beyond than that believed and so she had to sacrifice most of her power to suppress this forbidden knowledge and to suppress the full nature and danger of Eleazar. As the priest of the Scarlet King said she used most of her power to eradicate the forbidden knowledge and Rukkhadevata's form became that of a small child, something similar to Gubou's case(foreshadowing in this game is god tier.). But! Iriminsul's corruption: due to it being Rukkhadevata's consciousness being connected to Iriminsul, it got contaminated as a result and she had no choice which is why 'world forget me' was said, Rukkhadevata got contaminated by the forbidden knowledge and Eleazar which is why Iriminsul got contaminated, but due to sacrificing most of her power and body, she was to ensure her reborn self Nahida, the newer god of Wisdom and Sumeru was free from the contamination.

[@Sanguiris]

Before I watch: I would guess that they did something akin to the Scarlet King, getting forbidden knowledge that corrupted things or something similar, and since Celestia probably declared war on them, they tried to fight back with their armies and machines, probably not true, but that's before I watch

[@litolbitoy]

I just watched this, and spoiler for those who haven't done it, but there are 2 Khaenri'ahn soldiers who were helping Natlan seal the Abyss. I am loving your vids!!!

[@okkasannan]

Also, if you translate letters on the walls of the Chasm, you will get the phrase "Non est ad abyss via vedi flevi Caell ese un td umus", which is latin, and in English it will be "There is no way to the abyss that we see the tears of Heaven". Also, the poem in the letter left in the blocked room suddenly starts to make more sense. Also I think that two Abyss mages, Agnarr and Egill, probably were stuck there since 500 years ago - the last three phrases tell "Agnarr, Egill and the darkness" - so, my guess is that they were sent to obtain the Nail from the Chasm, but failed, and spend some time to write those things on the walls and a piece of poetry about their despair before they gave up, gone mad, and joined Abyss as their only option.

[@dvdznts]

considering this video was made before Cyno's Nahida 2 and Caribert, this seems to be spot on. the alignments established here may also hint why the Abyss lectors have a very religious theme, despite Khaenriah rejecting the gods.

[@apoorvjoshi2383]

I believe, Khaenriah and Abyss are two different factions. The current abyss swallowed the remnant of Khaenriah(the battle pass story in which the princess starts to believe that she is the queen of abyss) as if you see the interactions between abyss herald and Lumine(they are pretty bold in front of her, as if they are aware that they are using Lumine as their giant banner). while abyss mages are absolutely loyal to Lumine. So I believe either Abyss and Khaenriah are different, or Khaenriah was never one big nation but a group of many factions comprised of members from the entirety of teyvat. Plus if you think about it, there are many parts of teyvat that looks like they may belong to khaenriah. Like the biggest clue we get is in Mondstadt, where we have Dadaupa gorge, the hillichurl tribes there have a relation to Khaenriah. And then to support this even more, just further ahead of Dadaupa Gorge is the Cape Oath, which has a portal to Spiral Abyss. As if those Khaenriahn tribes was trying to guard the portal to abyss. Plus there is dragonspine there. Also, The ruins of Dahri are basically Khaenriahn ruins(as we learn that Dahri actually means people of khaenriah), so why is there such a massive Ruin belonging to Khanriahn People situated on the border of territory belonging to Rukkhadevata and Scarlet King? And we know that Scarlet King and Rukkhadevata were both very very strong, there is no way they would let an enemy create such a base in the land they care about. And third thing that I feel is very suspicious, is If abyss and Tsaritsa are both trying to overthrow Celestia, why are they not banding together? So far we have seen no hint of cooperation between fatui and the abyss. Is it because the abyss doesn't trusts Tsaritsa(as she is a god)? Venti hints that Tsaritsa's attitude changed 500 years ago, that is during the downfall of Khaenriah. Meaning she was a supporter of Khaenriah, and it seems that Lumine was also recognized by Aranara, and by extension the dendro archon. Meaning Lumine wasn't the enemy here. Probably Khaenriah was battling something fearsome and the archons were supporting Lumine in her crusade. But they got ruined as the collateral damage when Celestia decided to intervene. That is why, Abyss has never attempted to take over any of the archons lands. Fatui confronted Venti directly but Abyss didn't. The same can be said for other archons like Kusanali. They are weak, and if abyss wants, i doubt the sages can protect the gnosis. Means the current head of abyss, Lumine..does not wants to attack and make use of this opportunity. Maybe she still considers them her allies. And that is why archons still havent banded to destroy the abyss once and for all.

[@TheCheeseman1983]

We know that the Fatui are just as much enemies of the Abyss as they are enemies of the gods. The Tsaritsa presumably wants to overthrow the divine because she believes that the current power structure is doing a bad job keeping the Abyss at bay, as demonstrated by the Cataclysm. It should be noted that The Abyss and the Abyss Order are not the same thing. The Abyss Order are former Khaenri’ahns who appear to have been corrupted by the Abyss and now seek to destroy the current Teyvat in order to revive their “homeland”. They appear to wield Abyssal power, but we don’t know whether they have the full support of the Abyss, itself. Presumably, if they had the power to challenge the Archons in direct conflict, they would have, by now. In fact, that’s probably what the Abyss tried to do 500 years ago, but was pushed back. Hence why the Abyss Order is trying to obtain new weapons like Dvalin and the mechanized Osial.

[@cleptogirlx3]

There's a bit in the Pale Flame set's lore that implies Pierro wants to cleanse the abyss, so I think they see the Abyss Order as part of what's wrong with the current Teyvat and eliminating them and Celestia would create a better world.

[@Rexhunterj]

This is what I've picked up so far from the game, I won't give sources for all I say as its tiring but here I go. Once in Khaenri'ah the people were happy and they loved their King, though they were without a god they were blessed with good food, a safe home and amazing technological marvels from their greatest researchers and scientists. At some stage, the King takes on new advisors, the Sages. These individuals then set about a plan to gain power for themselves, using the King. This is the beginning of the decline of the King and Khaenri'ah as a whole, this is also when Abyssal Energy is introduced to researchers. As time progressed, the King became more closed off and withdrawn. The people started to see him become more dark and moody. The technology boom continues, especially with Abyssal tech, the Sages continue to amass power and assist the Abyss in its plans to destroy Teyvat. Around now is likely when the King decides to wage war against Celestia, likely with new knowledge forcibly discovered by the Sages and used as proof to incite war. The war slowly warps into a genocide of the surface nations too, a cleansing of the Archons and their government so that a single nation ruled by humans for humans is the sole survivor. This leads to machines of war being mass produced, the ruin machines we know of, also Gold is experimenting on creating life forms for more specific and complex tasks. By now the people are afraid, they are going to war, they don't know that it's a full scale war on the other nations, just the gods and that alone is frightening... The war begins, likely prematurely started by the Sages, which explains its total failure, the King disappears as do the Sages, the Twilight Sword is left to try and protect the people, he assigns the remaining Guards to that duty, they take that duty with them both to the grave and into their cursed lives after. Meanwhile, the operators of various ruin machines (like the Golems) are starting to realise what they are supposed to do, half of them seem to revolt, refusing to murder humans indiscriminately, the other half either fallen to the Abyss already or twisted individuals themselves fight them and win but at great costs to themselves. Ultimately it seems that not all of the people of Khaenri'ah agreed with the King and Sages/Abyss, or even knew about the real plot at all until it was too late.

[@massimilianoreali4398]

@@Rexhunterj in fact i think that there was also a civil war in khaenri'ah during the cataclysm

[@z.k.8264]

01:57 "The Fatui, the Abyss Order, and Dainslaif" Cracked me up XD