3:1 isn't 3:1, and so on.

[@L2SFBC]

Some common questions: 1. The X-Lock shortening is covered here in my Clips & Cuts channel (please sub, trying to get it monetised) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqWcZGBubsuNb6M 2. This is NOT a full review o the Offset Rings, it's efficiency only. To come; Thermal Analysis and then Offset Ring vs Symmetrical vs Block 3. Thank you again to the person who sent the rings, I don't have budget to buy everything and I don't like asking to be sent free stuff direct from companies. I know, right? How weird of me. 4. A Bearing Ring does exist, for example the RR30 which I've reviewed and tested here kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHSwe6mhbrFkqKc 5. For the original Efficiency video see this kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJXPg4V3l992sKM 6. Is it my practice to discuss with anyone who has an interest a draft video before publication. I've found any disagreements are better figured out before it goes live, it serves nobody's interest to be wrong; not mine, not yours, not the company's. Now when it comes to opinion...that's different. We didn't all agree, but at least we agreed to disagree. I don't deal in gotchas or sensation, plenty of others doing that. There are pros and cons of every product, and if you see anything that is all pro, or all con...then it's probably not unbiased.

[@kmet2000]

When you talk ropes and pulleys it always ends up at efficiency. If you spin a rope around a bar - you can pull it still on 1 full wrap, hard on 2 full wraps and soon or later you create a self locking system on 5 or 6 full wraps. Nothing will beat a well lubricated snatch block. For instance 87% efficiency vs 92% may not sound a lot, but when you do a 6 time multiplication you get: 0.86*0.86*0.87*0.86*0.86*0.86=0.40 or 40% efficiency 0.92*0.92*0.92*0.92*0.92*0.92=0.60 or 60% total system efficiency. I watched the youtubers war on oppinions and thinking this would make a perfect topic for you. And it did 👍👍👍👍 Thank you for doing it and bringing some common sense and science to the overheated youtubers debate. Great job and thank you again 👍👍👍🤣

[@whatnow5313]

Thank you to whoever sent the Yankum winch rings for this and future test

[@chriscole3538]

Very well tested and presented Robert, thank you Sir!

[@L2SFBC]

Means a lot coming from you!

[@BrOckSams0n]

21:26 "If you need more than 3.4, you may need a professional recovery" Absolutely. At some point you begin working with forces that can do real harm to your vehicle if everything goes right and to everything if things start going wrong. Your summary in this video is spot on. I think using a 4-1 can be great for spreading out the forces on anchor points and reducing load on the winch, if you're using a 4-1 for "more power" you need to start being very careful.

[@NoConcerntoYou-c6z]

👍 for the Yankum donation. I want to know the real facts concerning these offset rings. Thank you all.

[@L2SFBC]

Standy by for thermal analysis, and following that, the Offset vs Symmetrical vs Block review.

[@off-roadingexplained8417]

You're on fire dude. Go go go ! Love the content!

[@L2SFBC]

More to come!

[@lukebrady3728]

Just love that term "Spanish Burton". Sounds like some Welsh spy character in a Crime Noir film. Well done again Robert. You have my full attention.

[@jake-mv5oi]

Been looking forward to these. Thanks to whoever bought the offset rings. Excellent data.

[@captdramamine]

I love that load tester! When I worked construction, we used a tester with a giant analog dial indicator. That Bluetooth function is a safety factor that is unmeasurably good.

[@DodgeDurango-de5po]

Awsome video presentation! Real word facts from a trusted source in the off-road recovery world without all social media drama!

[@7kyro]

Awesome job, as always. Seeing a visual graph is a bit of a game changer.

[@leveluplife8585]

Those rings aren’t cheap, but I’m glad they’re in the right hands!

[@kienanmaxfield6288]

Thanks so much!! I’m a little surprised to see the Yankum 5 to 1 is so low!

[@michaelblock3998]

Great video! We recently picked up two Bluelink load cells for our classes.

[@L2SFBC]

What classes?

[@michaelblock3998]

@@L2SFBC we are Backroad 4WD Training. We are I4WDTA certified trainers and conduct off road driving and vehicle recovery training in the Pacific Northwest of the USA, Washington, Idaho and Oregon.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad to see you here then!

[@kenmuggli4613]

Thank you Robert, another excellent video.

[@mcodyw]

Thanks for making this video! As always, your very pragmatic, objective testing clears up a lot of confusion. Looking forward to the next one!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you!

[@TheRightLine]

Impressive. I've been waiting for this test. Thank you.

[@SPACEMIKEB]

Thanks for this very informative test. It is really great to have some real data to show what is actually happening. What I especially appreciate is that you aren't just trying to declare something the "best." Any of these can be a useful tool and can help make the recovery safer and more effective. The key to your results is that it has helped us better manage expectations.

[@L2SFBC]

There is rarely a 'best' unless in context of a specific situation. Options are always good, even if a once-in-ten-years situation.

[@jimderrick846]

Thank you Robert, fantastic and non biased information as always. I will be looking forward to your review of the Yankum Ropes offset rings. I have seen them in use in person and I have been impressed so far. Keep it up man!!

[@L2SFBC]

Coming soon! Thanks, please share!

[@pauldavies4650]

This was another amazingly informative video. And very timely. Thanks, Robert, and to view that, I sent them to you. #Respect I'm keen to see the Yakam specific review as I have been so close to purchasing, but not quite convinced.

[@L2SFBC]

Standy by for thermal analysis, and following that, the Offset vs Symmetrical vs Block review.

[@sebabalo]

Nice work. Thanks for the effort

[@maxgood42]

I'm sure you will put it straight. Will be good to see how the Yankum performs. I was wondering before and now when it comes to blocks , often they are left in the tool box untill needed, So what is the difference say Dry vs Greased pin/bearing ?

[@L2SFBC]

Don't know, all I can offer is symmetrical ring vs non-symmetrical vs block vs bearing ring.

[@biggs8729]

Very well done. Interesting that Yankum and Factor 55, two of the most expensive rings out there, we’re the most inefficient. I actually guessed that those two rings would be the worst.

[@L2SFBC]

What made you guess that?

[@biggs8729]

@@L2SFBC The bend radius of the Factor 55 was the smallest which causes 2 problems. 1: the rope has to make the sharpest bend putting more friction in the rope and 2: the smaller the bend radius of the ring, the less of a fulcrum you have to overcome the resistance of the ring rotating against the soft shackle. If that makes sense. The Yankum is simple. The thing doesn't rotate. If a ring naturally wants to rotate and you take that away, you're removing it's least point of resistance and forcing the rope to take a path of greater resistance by sliding over a larger surface

[@jdesigns7239]

Nothing but data, the way I like it! Can't wait to see the Yankum video.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, please share!

[@colinlewis4398]

Another great test - thorough and consistent, long on facts and data. I'd been curious about the offset rings, so thanks to the donor who made the test possible. I think I'm sticking with my new Saber ring and my old snatch block - between the two it's hard to imagine not being able to rig appropriately (well, maybe an extra one for redirection?) If you ever get the chance, it'd be fun to see some capstan winching. A whole 'nother world of risks and tricks.

[@L2SFBC]

Glad it was helpful!

[@brennanmetcalf]

Thank you for doing this test. I think this is very good quality and rather unbiased data that is starting to paint a much better picture. I would love to see a part 2 that filled in some of the holes I see though. 1. Rig the Yankum ring and a large diameter ring as a Spanish Burton. This will show more of a comparison of losses in the 4:1 range being more about the Spanish Burton being more efficient because it just has less rope on pulleys. ( The parts for a Spanish Burton 'should' also be up sized which gets closed over a bit ). 2. I'd like to see a traditional 4:1 done with separate rings and pulleys to show that friction losses are going to happen with those systems IF you don't have or can't use the SB technique because of space or length limitations. I'd extrapolate you would be closer to the double ring rigging like Yankum vs the SB rigging numbers.

[@matt.mckinzie]

🤣 our test that you said was invalid showed a 2.54-1 during a 4-1 yankum garbage test his showed 2.5 Literally confirmed everything we have stated Then you went and copied yankums design and pushing your own ring 🤣 You are also the guy who used a study completely wrong to push that heat build up by friction is fine You are the biggest bad information pusher of all off roading companies

[@L2SFBC]

Yes I thought of the Yankum in SB after we finished testing. Might do another based on that pull. Rigging a "traditional" 4:1 becomes problematic with separate pulleys and isn't necessary in my view. The relative friction can already been seen in the 2:1 and 3:1 pulls.

[@brennanmetcalf]

@@L2SFBC I agree the traditional 4 or 5:1 would be difficult to rig, but it would also illustrate some of the magic with the compound rigging in the Spanish Burton. I do think that being able to double rig rings has some advantage to get all the way to an 'honest' 3:1 mechanical advantage without needing any other equipment. I've found this handy for when you are forced to work close into the vehicle without a lot of extra space available for SB rigging. Thanks again for doing some good testing. The results for the large rotating rings ( like the one I produce ) was even better than I expected.

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks, yes I may do that for a future test. Not impossible, just difficult and a problem with my test approach is that everything must be on one anchor point as that's where the loadcell is. I already had trouble with that. Ideally I'd have many cells at each point but that gets super complex and expensive! I would also like to test with different ropes - diameter, dirtyness - but again maybe for the future. I would expect thin, new rope to perform better than dirty thick rope.

[@matt.mckinzie]

I want to point out a few things for the hard of hearing people, this test shows that yankums ring performed worse then our original test shows which got us hated by the super stars but your ok with the test that showed worse results LMAO, second using only 2 pulleys and not in a Spanish since that's what your stuck onto now. PERFORMS better in a 3-1 than using yankums in a 4-1. Our results shows a 1000lb better performance using pulley blocks in a 3-1 then yankums rings does in a 4-1. ROBERTS test also proves that, arb pulley blocks did a 2.51-1 in a 3-1 while yankums in a 4-1 only shows a 2.5-1 we know that .1 seems small for the small minded but it goes a long way in several ways, you need less line for a 3-1 and the pulleys are not rubbing your line to death so your line is going to last longer. POINT BLANK and SIMPLE

[@danlynch6194]

Excellent info, thanks for doing this test.

[@L2SFBC]

Our pleasure! Please share :-)

[@HardstylePete]

In a situation where a vehicle is very stuck, bogged to the rails in thick wet mud for example, would winch loads will exceed 100% of the vehicles weight?

[@L2SFBC]

Possibly yes. In my tests we did over at 108% of weight in sand.

[@dtnicholls1]

This illustrates the beauty of winches... With the exception of the anchor point it's very hard to exceed the breaking strength of the gear. You take a cat S shackle at 4.5t and achieve 4:1 (so more complex that what you've already done which is already a lot of effort and gear) and you're still 5t inside the capacity of the shackle. The only thing in question is the strap around the tree. It takes very little effort to achieve the goal safely. Compare that to everyone's favourite kinetic recovery...

[@klm404]

It’s been my experience that the only anchor point available is not directly in front of me, and requires a redirect pulley. That completes things.

[@shauncomper1304]

Thanks for another great and informative video, really find the practical results in comparison to the theory interesting. Have you considered switching things at all so that the anchor point becomes the stuck vehicle to be recovered ( no/non operational winch) being recovered by a winch equipped vehicle using a second vehicle or fixed anchor point beside the winch equipped vehicle to reduce the loads on the recovering vehicle while increasing the force available for extracting the stuck vehicle? Hope this makes sense. Interested as I use my winch as often to recover/move loads as I do for self recovery and could see advantages such as reducing the chances of dragging the recovering vehicle towards the stuck one.

[@L2SFBC]

The pulley efficiency would be the same. I cover different types of rigging in other videos, the 9 Ways with 1 Block and 6 ways with 2 Blocks. There are tricks with static winching that can't be used with dynamic. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGnOmq1ql9iUjs0 and kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXO8kmVunsR-b7M

[@scotthallenberg3575]

Love your work!!! I’m a little surprised in how close the F55 and Yankum were in the 2:1 configuration given the earlier recovery ring testing. Was there there enough load so the F55 and Saber rings were rotating or just sliding through? (I may have missed that in the video)

[@L2SFBC]

The F55 has a small internal diameter so I think that's why they were so close. Yes, both had 1500kg of load. The F55 and Saber rotated. The Yankum did not...but stand by for the review :-)

[@scotthallenberg3575]

For sure. Can’t wait!

[@overlandready]

quite interesting on the losses experienced, I guess the only major advantage ater the SB rigging is physical speed reduction, if at all that can be listed as an advantage.

[@L2SFBC]

Pro or a con depending on your perspective, yes.

[@erickaiser501]

Data based information. Love it!!

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you liked it!

[@glennj6465]

Always very interesting and informative 🤔🤩👍🏻

[@L2SFBC]

Glad you enjoyed it, please share!

[@stusue9733]

The last tests have me scratching my head. Between 3:1 and 4:1 there is a theoretical increase of 33% with an actual increase of 19% 4:1 to 5:1 there is a theoretical increase of 25% with an actual of 20% How does that work? Am I missing something? For a bonus point, it would be nice to know the load the 5th leg put on the anchor. Any guesses?

[@L2SFBC]

Yes, it's not as simple as "add 10% per pulley" (whatever 10% is of, ie load or winch tension). You're not missing anything. I've only got two cells so that question wll need to wait! I've not attempted to decompose all the loads, I'll need a friendly physicist to work with me on that question. For the moment, results are results!

[@stusue9733]

@@L2SFBC It's not so much the actual figures as the trend. Wouldn't one expect the actual increase to get worse with each pulley* added? between those to it seems inverse. I think part of it is rounding errors. Using your 60% rule on a 5:1 with a 1500kg load would seem to put a load of 38.4kg on the fifth leg. Interesting stuff!

[@brunoterlingen2203]

Robert, I dont' know if you have covered this but do you have an instructional video of the "X" device, the one with the two horns on either side over which one places ropes - I would like a simple working example (I have not been able to find an explanation).

[@L2SFBC]

Sure, kzbin.info/www/bejne/pqWcZGBubsuNb6M

[@brunoterlingen2203]

Thank you Robert.@@L2SFBC

[@franciscocunhaetavora9132]

Great video as usual. Can we get a video about winch gearing?

[@L2SFBC]

No plans sorry

[@NAPAuniversalJoints]

great video. just found the channel and just subbed. PS. I hate Casey LaDelle HAHAHA

[@L2SFBC]

Thanks for the sub, is this hate a specific thing to Casey or more a generalised dislike of humans?

[@NAPAuniversalJoints]

@@L2SFBC its one of his jokes, he sales t-shirts with that phrase on it. He was singing the praises of the yakum offset rings, i was always suspicious of how efficient rings were as pulley blocks. Glad to see people doing some real testing in controlled and measurable ways

[@L2SFBC]

Yankum don't claim efficiency. They make 7 claims which I'll be looking at shortly.

[@NAPAuniversalJoints]

@@L2SFBC i will look forward to that video. no my suspicions were about winch rings in general.

[@Orion44851]

Love seeing your videos but I would have liked to have seen, the red winch FM - 24 or FM - 12 setup

[@L2SFBC]

I don't own either and the views I'd get from a test would not make the purchase worthwhile.

[@Orion44851]

​​​@@L2SFBCyou've done a video 3 years ago on the red winch fiddle block fm-12 or may have been fm-24

[@L2SFBC]

I did but I didn't buy one!

[@Orion44851]

​@@L2SFBC okay I just remember you doing the video it's cool

[@Orion44851]

​@@L2SFBClook forward to your next video Robert

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

What I think you missed is the difference in weight and the difference in size, compared to the mechanical advantage. So 2 rings vs 2 pulley blocks. How much lighter are the rings? Also can two rings get you more advantage then two pullies? If weight is a real worry, how many more scenario's can you accomplish with 2 rings verses 1 heavier pulley?

[@matt.mckinzie]

We have tested this 2 pulleys performed better with a 3-1 then yankums performed at 4-1 Less line more power Warn pulley blocks weight was 6lbs and yankums giant rings are 2.2 lbs They are not small

[@jasonrshi]

@@matt.mckinzie you are forgetting the necessity of hard shackles, factor that weight and size as well. Stacking a couple hard shackles on top of pulleys would be considered "giant" over the size of the Yankum offset rings that don't need hard shackles to function. I am glad Robert did an unbiased review, and doesn't have your agenda (like keeping your sponsors happy and making up info or skewing info anywhere you can). Your mission to take down yankum is just sad, and trying to build your channel by stepping on others is also pretty lame. Spreading hate won't get you where you are wanting to end up. I am looking forward to the day where you realize this.

[@matt.mckinzie]

@@jasonrshi not sure if you just silly in love with garbage rings or what But we do not use giant hard shackles on our pulleys A lot of pulleys have been changed to be used with soft shackles The fact that we stated they have a huge friction loss and yankum clear cut was telling people 2-4% to sell product is just mind boggling The fact that you are ok with it tells me your also an issue

[@jasonrshi]

@@matt.mckinzie why does your "review" video mention a 30% friction loss and Robert is nowhere near that? Oh yeah, bias. Can't forget about that. And your crazy claims not knowing how to read Celsius vs Farenheit? Also, why is there not a single video out there showing a winch line being "damaged", except yours? The guy that hates Yankum? Funny how Robert never mentioned anything about damage to his lines even after doing thorough testing, and yet you used yours "once" and damaged your lines... Keep up your mission to destroy and burn bridges. F55 is the only one 'silly' enough to have you pushing their products. I can't buy any more of their stuff, simply because they have people like you pushing it.

[@L2SFBC]

No, that's not missed, that's "not yet". This test focuses on efficiency only. A discussion of those points is coming. That video ended up being 22 minutes...long enough. See pinned post.

[@sassanlachini5383]

Danke!

[@L2SFBC]

Thank you Sassan!

[@stuartkcalvin]

10:25 yes, just poke your eyes down into an active rope on tension. Kids at home, don't do this. Former Army Recovery Mechanic, ECN 226.

[@L2SFBC]

What did the Army teach you about checking your rig before you put actual recovery-load tension on it?

[@stuartkcalvin]

@@L2SFBC not to dive my head into an active rope with pulleys, nor step over it. An active rope is one that is connected, whether under tension or not. The corporal was the recovery boss, the lance corporal was the rope boss - the 2IC; the Craftsman (a private soldier in RAME) was responsible for laying/winching out cable, it was then checked upwards. If two wreckers were involved, the sergeant became the recovery boss as they commanded two vehicles; so on, and downwards . Since WWI and into Viet Nam, all recovery platoons are commanded by a captain from the ranks - by popular vote. An RMC graduate might think that they're in charge of recoveries - but they just do the operational planning. Recoveries are directed tactically by soldiers. And it continues today. It's a 12 week course at Bandiana, VIC, for newbies.

[@L2SFBC]

Did you notice how much tension was in that line? That it was laying on the ground? The answer is around 150kg. Now I don't think there's any danger of things breaking at that tension, do you? But what it does allow me to do is check the rigging. Is there a stone in the pulley, no snags on the lines. I make that inspection, then I move back and apply full load. Why is that unsafe, and how would you check a rig without any tension on it at all? And I also sometime step over a winch line...because there are occasions when it's safer to do so than to go around. Do you think all the Army techniques apply to recreational, and vice-versa, or is there room for differences?

[@stuartkcalvin]

@@L2SFBC never step over an active line. you never know who will pull, when, apparently, in charge. It's a good habit.

[@L2SFBC]

I agree...but there's times when it's safer to step over, than go around, don't you think? "Never" is not a bit strong?

[@thelast929]

I see a lot of people use the rings. I wish morr uTubers like @caseyladel would watch this guy!

[@L2SFBC]

He has watched it and we have discussed :-)