(3/4) PROBABLY THE BEST 'elevator relay logic vid'! - Pt3, different lift, EXPERIMENTS BEGIN!

Loads of lift controller relay logic experiments for you lift enthusiasts!
In fact, I've gone a little overboard and had to split this into another part.
VIDEOS:
Part 1 - "into the motor room or not!?" - Exploring an original 'Express Lifts' lift motor room
Part 2 - "how it works" (my favourite part!!)
This is Part 3 - "EXPERIMENTS" - different lift, same design, more relays, MORE EXPERIMENTS!
Part 4 - "EXPERIMENTS2" - more experiments and some motor room footage (and a fan!)
So now I've found a newer design Express Lift.
By the way, when I am referring to "Express Lift" I am not referring to a "fast/express" lift, I am referring to "The Express Lift Company" originally based in Northampton UK - which no longer exists and was merged into Otis in about 2000.
So what's the difference between the previous REALLY old Express Lift and this one?
* This lift is TWO speed, previous was ONE speed (crash leveling)
* Previous lift - Ground floor call button was a "200" relay (UP call), whereas the floors 1-7 were "300" relays (DOWN call).
* This lift has UP AND DOWN call buttons - perfect for some Matt Experiments!! LOL.
* This lift has a bigger cabinet. Probably due to the extra relays needed to manage the two speeds and both up and down landing calls AND this one is obviously newer and the design has probably been improved which required a larger cabinet.
ABOUT THE VIDEOS
Enjoy the videos. I'm a perfectionist and have edited these to make them as interesting as possible, and of course as informative as possible as well!
A LITTLE INFO ABOUT RELAYS:
##THERE IS A "MRMATTANDMRCHAY" VIDEO COMING SOON ALL ABOUT LATCHING RELAYS - watch out for it!##
A relay is a switch activated by an electromagnet. A relay can contain one or many switches which all move together. Using this, and other mechanical devices, this is how lift systems worked before microprocessors were introduced in the 1980s.
It's called 'relay logic' because the switches are used to make decisions, such as which lift should go to which call (for larger building with more than one lift). Whereas a computer program can be programmed to make this decision quite easily, to connect wires to relays and switches to make the same thing happen can be complex. But if you know what you're doing, it works!
I LOVE RELAYS by the way, and I've been working with them since I was about 12 years old! :)
Hope you enjoy the videos!

[@RODALCO2007]

This is a brilliant video about how the lift relay logic works. Relays are awesome devices and generally very reliable.

[@kl122002]

Probably the most beautiful relay logic I have ever seen.

[@ZLDSmogless]

When you're walking past an old lift and it randomly opens with no one inside, and no calls active, there's a mrmatt in the motor room

[@petershen1984]

i am so excited to see this. I can't help but analyze these logic circuits in terms of how I would do them in a high end compiler (e.g. GUI application). Based on your test of pressing the 4th floor down, followed immediately by 7th floor down while traveling, and your ending video clip, CarPush (CP) is like an event trigger for any car button that causes immediate evaluation for relay 71 and 72. The logic gate would evaluate (5 or 6 or 7) for calls above and (3 or 2 or 1) for calls below which triggers the direction relay change. The car position sensors also triggers additional conditional events/decisions (should I stop? change direction? arrival - cancel call) etc. Modern lifts are not that far off in terms of PLC programming but the connections are just simpler and more intuitive - e.g. cancel all calls in the wrong direction :) And PLC computers still need position switches to trigger terminal signals, etc.

[@truckinjeff]

Thanks for taking the time to explain the relay logic. I understand it a whole lot better now, not that I'll ever be an elevator engineer. But its cool to see and know.

[@alloria]

With all those relays on display, it can be hard to see which ones are on, and which ones are off. Your graphics do an excellent job of overcoming this problem, as they make everything clear. I especially liked your graphic showing all the floors, and the lift position, it was very useful. Thank you for posting this, I really enjoyed it.

[@bengreen1262]

I was 25 and replacing this type of machine controller for some PLC type of kit - 30 years on I have to maintain whats in the video and breakdowns are maybe 1 a year - hard to make an argument for obsolescence……when parts are still available / can be repaired - Door motor rewind in the last 10 of 50 years and still going.

[@mariociantar9946]

I remember in my initial days of repairing Elevators seeing those type of Control Panels. The major fault used to be the worn out teeth of the Selector mechanism, sending the car to the wrong floor.

[@sam34574]

Nice videos. I have done some servicing on this lift model. There are 3 of them in my home town (last year there were 7). They still have all the old Ward-Leonard drive gear as well. I have learned a bit about what each relay does watching your vidoes so it was quite useful. I only had the original wiring diagram to go off and that had no index to explain what each relay does. The oldest lift still running here is from 1935 and has massive motor contacts and very basic relay logic.

[@kdmq]

I found the "stator start" relay interesting. What I think it does is wire the stator and rotor in series when the motor first starts, and then wires them in shunt to run the motor at an even speed once it gets going. I'm not sure if I've got it backwards or not, It's been a while lol.

[@arashrafizadeh9817]

Very Good,Thanks.....

[@agems56]

This is absolutely marvelous how you took the time to explain all of this! I currently know of a hydraulically operated elevator which only runs between three floors, and constantly breaks down because of contractors! It is only 20 years old, but not used much, because it is a condominium with the option of using the stairs! Is this acceptable for reliability?

[@dirkdecay6927]

thanks for the vid, very cool

[@ZLDSmogless]

What does the low speed choke do?

[@ESHINEELECTRO]

Meanwhile at some floor in front of the lift : "OMG !! Haunted lift moves on its own !"

[@peterlomas984]

Relay 71 or 72 are energised via normally open contacts on the 200 or 300 relays via changeover contacts of 83 relay.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

+Harry lomas Cool, I'll have to study that. That's what I like about relays, it's possible to work out things just by watching how the relays interact.

[@peterlomas984]

+mrmattandmrchay I worked on this stuff and the more complicated vv ,vvr(with field regulator)and vvm which is the gearless application. I don't possess any straight line wiring diagrams as I have retired.If I can help you or you are not quite sure about something send us message ,I can also assist you with 1960/1970s Otis relay equipment rotary selector's etc. Regards Pete Lomas .aka Harry ,,

[@mrmattandmrchay]

+Harry lomas Hi Pete. To find people that built up a knowledge from the relay generation is rare! I have a list of what each relay does in this Express motor room somewhere (a Otis eng friend gave me a book of them) and have spent some time trying to work it out and make sense of them when at one of these locations.I love messing around with relays! I remember when I was about 10 years old and I was really excited when I found how to make a latching relay circuit... those were the days!I'm currently editing a Schindler movie, just wondered if have any knowledge of the selector wheel? Some of it I can work out, but I have been to a place where the wheel is smaller with less functionality and, without going back there and filming more scenarios, I cannot 100% work out some bits of it and what their actual purpose is. Would you be able to help here? I'll send you my email via PM, if you could reply then I'll show you a photo and the "question areas". I'll give you a mention in the movie also. Many thanks. MattMany thanks.

[@JavierAlbinarrate]

You should be aware that after you left, there were some rumors of ghosts in the elevator :)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

the ghost of mrmattandmrchay. Haunting!!

[@mrmattandmrchay]

thanks :)

[@mrmattandmrchay]

now that would be funny if such a video was posted on youtube :D I doubt it though as not many people were around to notice :)

[@watchmakerful]

Russian elevators have a slightly different scheme. Each floor has its floor switch, it is usually mechanical and has three positions. If the car is above the floor, it points left, if below, it points right, and if the car is on this floor, it keeps the switch in the intermediate position. These switches determine the direction in which the car moves when one presses a call button. Later constructions have inductive switches on each floor and still do not have the floor selector.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Алексей Рукин Interesting. How does the switch operate? Does it have a Otis style carriage, or some other method? Normally with a switch, it's either on or off. But I suppose THREE positions would require a mechanical device to press the middle position as it passes?

[@watchmakerful]

mrmattandmrchay Yes, it is a combination of angle bars on the car. When the car is at the floor, these bars hold the switch at its middle position. When the car leaves this floor, they push the switch left if the car moves up or right if it moves down. Both extreme positions are fixed inside the switch and the middle position is not fixed. s3.postimg.org/wnps3ldc3/floor_switch.png www.ua.all.biz/img/ua/catalog/more/13031_etazhnyj_pereklyuchatel_ep_11_40_harkov.jpeg Later designs use induction sensors on the floors to detect positions and one induction sensor on the car for precise stopping.

[@user2C47]

imagine if someone reported a malfunctioning elevator.

[@ZLDSmogless]

It could be modernised!

[@gabrielcoyle9049]

Does it still exist ?

[@luismpgomes]

There's still something I don't get. Imagine that the car is at the 2nd floor. If there's a call from un upper floor, what makes the "up call relay" trigger? What makes it choose between the up and down relay? I mean, there must be some sort of condition (if car landed at 2nd, call at 4th, then up) Does the "up call relay" and the "down call relay" exist just because it's a collective call lift?

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Please let me know if this movie answers your question: The promised "EPIC SELECTA MOVIE" - A beginners guide to 1970's relay logic circuits! Watch from 10:20 onwards for the relevant bit that i'm thinking of.

[@ELPaso1990TX]

I was in an Otis elevator once and selected 12th floor only for it to stop half way past the floor. What causes an elevator to fail to line up with floor? The car doors opened but the push open landing door was locked. I pressed for floor 14 and it stopped as normal.

[@jetaimemina]

Not sure if you got an answer somewhere else in the meantime, but ghosts. The answer is ghosts.

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Daniel Nuker Can't "reply" to your comments again (strange! - have to add new message instead). I have recently sent someone a simple (well, simple-ISH) diagram of how to do a simple GROUND and FIRST floor relay circuit connected to a motor. If you are seriously thinking of making something then let me know as I would be interested to help you build something (perhaps I'll make a video of how to connect it up).

[@Nuker-jc6qo]

thake you :D i reely enjoy your vids and love waching theme :D

[@owenboonvisudhi2564]

12:21 look who’s a baby

[@ag6371]

This one has no window on the door unlike the other one

[@mrmattandmrchay]

+adithyamc Gaming The viewing windows give the lift a frightening appearance in my opinion

[@allenbraithwaite106]

The vision panels in landing also car doors were phased out, Vandals smashed them, And accidents happened,people putting hands through .A small peep hole glass replaced many.

[@Nuker-jc6qo]

im thinking of makeing a relay controld elevator :D

[@gabrielcoyle9049]

It would be better if it had a window on the door

[@mrmattandmrchay]

agreed, the windows give the doors 'an eye' that make it look scary!

[@ag6371]

The previous elevator didn’t have a cooling fan

[@mrmattandmrchay]

Yep, guess it's the characteristics of the motor as to why some have fans and some don't.

[@idl3k_elev]

Lolwut, too jelas (obvious)