3 Problems in the World's OLDEST Bible (Codex Sinaiticus)

[@cjohnyrun]

Ok, so I needed a sexy title -- and "World's Oldest Bible" was it. But let me add some disclaimers. We have older manuscripts and collections of manuscripts. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Chester Beatty Papyri are both examples of older bible manuscripts--but not compiled in a way that looks like our modern bible. What do you think? Does it matter that Codex Sinaiticus raises these issues? Let me know!! 👇👇👇

[@Revolver1701]

Excellent content. Thank you .

[@SibleySteve]

I viewed CS in October at the British Library in London. Tobit happens to be a favorite of mine along with Sirach. The benefit of seeing it in London is that it sits next to Alexandrinus and a few feet from the Great Bible and Tyndale’s NT. I think apologists should teach that the Bible is a community project with warts and all, so that people do not become shocked and catastrophic when they learn about critical theory. Good for you for this content. The Canticles are some of my favorite inclusion in the codices, which are a type of non-davidic psalms that appear in the Bible outside of the book of psalms, like the prayer of Manasseh or Zechariah song from the gospel. The Tyndale House Greek New Testament is a nice product representing a new translation based on codices rather than majority Byzantine papyri although my favorite Greek NT is the UBS and NA28. The NRSVue is a fantastic Bible translation although I love the DSS-heavy NABRE as well, particularly psalm 110 NABRE.

[@cjohnyrun]

​@ Thanks!

[@cjohnyrun]

@ Wow, that's fantastic. And you're right. I think the history and tradition is so much more interesting when we don't just read it to learn what confirms us. All these beautiful works that I never considered before. I had an older version of NA and was distressed to realize one of their decisions was really not supported--but I should try 28

[@terrybarnhill9037]

@@cjohnyrun I think if they had included The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, that may have been a bridge to far for the faithful. 😳

[@bipolarrambling242]

Just commenting to boost your algorithm. Glad I found this channel!

[@cjohnyrun]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@DeanMcFetridge-ri4mr]

I’m finding your channel very helpful. This is perfect timing for me as I’m distancing myself from fundamentalist Christianity. I’m looking forward to more like this. Thank you!

[@cjohnyrun]

I'm so glad! Thanks for this encouragement

[@chrisr3592]

Great video. Keep em coming. I'm keen to hear your comprehensive deconversion story.

[@cjohnyrun]

thanks so much. I'll have to give some thought to how to share it

[@ssstbc]

Great video, very clear and concise...which is nice considering how others approach this subject matter! Here's hoping your channel explodes 👍 thanks

[@cjohnyrun]

Much appreciated!

[@DCfromBC]

Very cool video! What a priceless piece of history! The original ending of Mark would've been so much better if the author had said, "and they said nothing to no one... um, except me. The end."

[@I_Am_Monad]

"...and also I really do know what Pilate said to Jesus in private, so trust me, bro..."

[@cjohnyrun]

lol maybe it did! and it got lost. 😃

[@DCfromBC]

😄 🤣 😂

[@DCfromBC]

@@cjohnyrun The original "a bit longer" ending.

[@ziploc2000]

Who recorded/retold the story of the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness? It had to be Jesus or the devil, there were no other witnesses, and if it was Jesus, wasn't that a bit prideful/boastful? Or it was all made up...

[@charleskann886]

I like the question, "What is the Bible?", or "Which Bible". It seems to me the Biblical canon was created to support the theology, not that theology was created from the Bible. Even down to Martin Luther theologians cherry picked books to make their theology work. Our theology is not based on the inspired word of God, but on past theologians and what we believe. Christians can still say the God worked through the theologians to create the Bible. But can it be argued, as many Christians I know do, that the King James version of the Bible is the true, inerrant word of God? Why do we argue about the autographs, as we can simply let things out of the Bible that do not support our theology? Thank you for your videos. They always make me think. I know I believe what I believe because I believe it, which I believe is not a safe way to think. Always question.

[@cjohnyrun]

100%. I like to think of this as exploration even for myself, I certainly don't have all the answers. thanks for this wonderful response

[@TheDanEdwards]

_Canonicity_ is completely a construction intended to enforce compliance.

[@ronrussell5676]

Interesting information, I was aware of the original shorter ending to Mark, but not of the other points made. People often cling to whatever they already believe because of "tradition", but we should be ready to adjust our beliefs when new authoritative data becomes available. This ancient manuscript shows that the Bible wasn't just handed down in it's complete modern form, but that it evolved over time, books were edited, added to, deleted altogether, etc.

[@cjohnyrun]

absolutely. And unfortunately, a lot of things people believe about the bible aren't ancient at all.

[@greg-op2jh]

Just found your channel! Subbed and watching now. Like your stuff my friend.

[@cjohnyrun]

@greg-op2jh Thanks so much! Welcome aboard :)

[@ziploc2000]

Of course we don't have just one modern bible, and I'm not talking languages and translations. The Protestant Bible has 66 books, the Catholic 73, the Tewehado 81, and there are many more books that have not been included in any of those for various reasons.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

I first learned about this text through the wonderful Jeff Rose documentary "Bible Hunters". though just an overview, it covered all the pertinent points and clearly showed me that the bible is NOT totally inerrant. In fact, it has been changed often over the centuries.

[@cjohnyrun]

@@LyleFrancisDelp Woah, I hadn't heard about that one. I will check it out

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

@@cjohnyrun Both episodes are on YT. I saw it on TV years ago. On PBS, I think. I think his scholarship and presentation are brilliant. Yes, it's succinct, but that's TV. But it also makes one think. Well...I certainly made me think. Having been brought up in the bible belt...in Texas...but I've grown to doubt. Seeing this showed me that even the bible up with which I grew, is not really perfect.

[@nazorean]

This bible looks like getting back to the spiritual Egypt...

[@timisa58]

The adulterer story and the ending of Mark ARE HUGE. Christians, like I was, were taught that these were god-inspired scriptures! Especially the adulterer story, so emotional to so many. When I learned this years ago, I was aghast.

[@mrsmax3071]

It really broke my heart when I found out the story of Jesus saving the woman from being stoned wasn’t in the original manuscript. That was one of my favorites.

[@cjohnyrun]

@mrsmax3071 Does it matter? It's still a fantastic story!

[@RonRuelas]

​@cjohnyrun Even if it isn't in the original bible and only a story, the scenario still highlights the moralty of fairness and grace, in a situation where, it would be easy for many of us to cast judgment on someone without reflecting on our own behavior. Thank you for bringing things to light.

[@mrsmax3071]

@ I guess it doesn't, but it used to mean a lot to me that God would protect a woman who had done wrong.

[@nicklj2480]

I recall wondering why the story was missing in earlier manuscripts too.

[@cjohnyrun]

@ I feel like it's authentically part of the early Christian tradition. And in fact, it's so powerful it was worth adding in.. That says something

[@terrybarnhill9037]

Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to reading the books that got axed.

[@cjohnyrun]

Enjoy!

[@Silver_Is_Money]

Are there places in the text which reveal such things as corrections, erasures, alterations, and overwrites?

[@cjohnyrun]

yah, lots. I just did a quick google search--there are some examples here - jbtc.org/v20/TC-2015-Malik.pdf

[@seriouslyiknowhowtoread]

Please note the Hebrew translation was only of the first 5 books

[@gliderfan6196]

"And the seven brothers are murdered. Cool book" If it were heavy metal it would have :parental advisory: sticker on it

[@jefftoll604]

Well done. Great video and pointing out these issues. I have a big problem with things being added in later such as Mark....then who is the real author? How much of the Gospels are really true? And people defending the bible say these are the inspired words of God. How can these Gospels be trustworthy?

[@cjohnyrun]

The other meta question is probably, "Do they need to be completely trustworthy?" We put a lot on them with modern eyes--especially those protestants who have no other connection to christian history

[@elliottgray2179]

Just found your channel and am excited to follow as you grow! The proper spelling is "Sinaiticus"; you may want to change the title as it is currently misspelled. Other than that great content!

[@cjohnyrun]

ahhh good catch! lol. Thanks

[@herbalgerbil]

My guess is that Mark may have been written in Greek Ephesus or somewhere else in the Province of Asia. Jerusalem had been destroyed and there doesn't seem to be evidence of early Aramaic versions from Antioch.

[@BonyT2768]

Everyone keeps saying that Sinaiticus (which you have misspelled in your video title, btw 😜) is the oldest mostly complete Bible that we have; but I believe the scholarly consensus is that Codex Vaticanus is slightly older, not to mention being of better quality and higher value than Sinaiticus.

[@cjohnyrun]

lol thanks re: misspelling. I'll get it corrected. I find the digital version of Vaticanus to be so annoying to work with.. I wish there was a better one. re: dating, I'm reading Brent Nongbri's latest book on the many problematic ways we date biblical books--I'm curious to see if it has anything to say about it.

[@BonyT2768]

@ date-wise, the two are so close, I don’t suppose it really matters much-generally dated within about 50 years of each other. I’m no scholar, but in my limited education I’ve always understood Vaticanus was thought to be the considerably better of the two.

[@charleskann886]

I was reading the comments, and I was thinking how many of the stories and parables of Jesus in the Bible have antecedents found in other myths, legends, or stories that predated their inclusion in the Bible? Is there a book that tries to catalog them. I am always amazed at Jesus' replies in the gospels, with the woman being saved from being stoned being a prime example. Is it possible that this story was know if the Hebrew or Roman world at the time, and as the commentor below suggests, it is so appropriate that the author felt it was compelling enough to include it, regardless of whether there was evidence happened or not. The author might have reasoned it could have, or even should have, happened, even if there was no evidence it did. Are other stories that predate the scriptures included by authors in the Bible? Not that it matters, and it would not change anything for me, but I wonder. Also, I want to add comments to get up your you tube search results. I am hoping to see you break 1000 subscribers this week!

[@danielmalinen6337]

Early Christians used the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint, or LXX

[@levicohen-autor]

And the Hebrew Bible was not written in greek.

[@jefftoll604]

Yes. And how can an edited, translated, translated to English be considered more accurate than the original. The Isaiah 7:14 issue comes to mind.

[@DreamMonster7X]

What this is telling to me, (I've already know) those who wrote the finale bible (s) were writing from some version of the OT. What is truthful and what is not. If any part of a story that is flawed is safe to assume, the who story is flawed, and that's only the tip of this iceberg.

[@JenniferOlorenshaw]

Visions and prophesies after the apostles are a flag for apostacy plus the book of Barnabas claims a false authority

[@SamDupree-bw4rt]

thanks Chris! super cool! 👍

[@cjohnyrun]

@@SamDupree-bw4rt I'm so glad you found it interesting

[@karldegroot1800]

3 ? húndreds .. both OT (but especially-) NT is heartbreakingly corrupted .. only Christ's sacrifice is original : the rest is 80-90% corrupted themes .. no change + water + in wine , but the enemy has changed + the words of + God .. hundreds of examples like that ...

[@philipwest4553]

It's name is Sinai-ticus.

[@cjohnyrun]

I have ALWAYS pronounced it wrong. Something just never stuck in my brain... I see "Mt. Sinai"...

[@blain20_]

The story of the woman caught in adultery was in the original gospel of John.

[@TheDanEdwards]

No.

[@blain20_]

@TheDanEdwards Wrong. Don't be ignorant.

[@katiedotson704]

There's not an honest biblical scholar out there that will back up your claim. This is just wishful thinking on your part. The Bible as we know it has been copied, copied with errors, copied with intentional interpolations, copied with deletions from the original. We have only bits and pieces of what we suppose to be original documents. Meanwhile, we have entire letters, stories, and books from before 3000 BCE.

[@aprilmay578]

WOW! This guy does not know much about the history of the Bible. He has a lot of odd untruthful facts concerning the history of the Bible and it's creation.

[@ContemplativeSoul]

WOW! ok

[@Berean_with_a_BTh]

OK, self-appointed expert, demonstrate your superior knowledge by substantiating your claims. Anyone can naysay.

[@ronrussell5676]

Isn't "untruthful fact" an oxymoron?

[@terrybarnhill9037]

Jeez, Becky. You okay?

[@blain20_]

​@@ronrussell5676No, the word fact doesn't mean truth.

[@milanterzic859]

None of these problems affect Christianity. The NT writers and Jesus all quote the Septuagint. If there was a problem, God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit could have corrected it. The Canon was discovered over centuries as the Holy Spirit led Christians. It goes against today's wham bang thinking. The ending of Mark doesn't affect any major doctrine apart from being a source of radicalism to the unbalanced. Why look at problems? Why not let Jesus shine forth? He is the source of eternal life. Raise Him up. (John 12:32)

[@matswessling6600]

why not let jesus shine forth? because he probabky didnt exist, at least not as desribed in the gospels.

[@milanterzic859]

@@matswessling6600 Not to worry. You'll get to meet Him.

[@matswessling6600]

@@milanterzic859 thats just more unsupported claims. Nobody has ever shown any perception/conciousness without a working brain. Make your conclusions from that fact.

[@TheDanEdwards]

"The Canon was discovered... "

[@Benjamin-jo4rf]

@@milanterzic859what do you think of Isaiah 53?