3 Years of Duolingo - Still Not Fluent | LivaKivi Interview

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This week we talked to @Livakivi , who became known in the community after his video detailing his 800+ day journey on Duolingo Japanese reached over 1.5 million views as of this recording. On his channel he makes video related to his Japanese learning but also about his other hobbies. In this podcast we hear about his experience using Duolingo and where his Japanese is at 3 years later.
Outline:
00:00 Intro
01:40 LivaKivi's Approach to Learning Japanese
07:00 Honest Thoughts About Using Duolingo After 3 Years
15:30 Making Language Learning Progress Update Videos
16:52 LivaKivi's KoreKara Message
19:40 Outro
#Japanese #Duolingo

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Really appreciate LivaKivi coming on our podcast this week! Let us know your experience if you've ever used Duolingo in the comments below!

[@trewsmith]

duolingo was fun for the first week but after that it just became a chore and it didn't help my japanese

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

@@trewsmith We couldn't even get past using it for more than an hour 😂

[@-sincerelyelle9182]

duolingo is okay if you're learning the language seriously using a different method, but the sentences sometimes don't make sense or really random like "the man is not a woman" 😃 maybe if you want to play it as a game it will be okay but you don't gain a lot out of it. Definitely not beginner friendly as it does not go into the reasoning behind grammar and such

[@Livakivi]

Lmao the title. Huge thanks for inviting me on, was a lot of fun! Maybe one day we can go for round 2 in a longer episode!

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

We should definitely do one where we talk about everything outside of Japanese! Thank you for coming on our podcast!

[@humanbean3]

Yeah this title really put a particular spin on the whole thing lol. But it's garnering attention. Duo Lingo guy XDDDD

[@ScottHWMoo]

Livakivi is such an underrated content creator. Great interview lads. Hope to see his 4 year update.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Agreed!

[@dashi3l]

Livakivi is one of my favourite content creators on KZbin so I'm glad you got the chance to get him on.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

We're big fans as well!

[@NotSatan]

Livakivi is a legend, watching an episode of JoJo FIFTY TIMES??????

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Should have asked him to recite it

[@Igirisu]

Livakivi has to be one of my absolute favourite creators, it’s super awesome seeing him on here! His advice is what got me through the rough patches of motivation because consistency is always key, it helped me feel less fixated on progression and better about just doing SOMETHING rather than nothing at all

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Couldn't agree more!

[@polepino]

My experience, and the way I approach DuoLingo, is that its more of a tool to HELP you learn, its NOT supposed to be the ONLY way you learn a language. I've been learning Spanish on and off the past few years and every time I am in learning mode, where I spend at least 30 minutes a day, its really helpful in introducing new words/ideas to my vocabulary. I'm fortunate I work with a lot of Spanish speakers so it provides me a backbone as far as vocab/sentence structure/etc but practicing with spanish speakers everyday helps me just trying it out loud and with others as opposed to just a screen and memorization. I also try to digest other forms of Spanish (music/movies) but DuoLingo does provide an easy access way to start learning and to continually come back to in ADDITION to other ways. It also is good to go into DuoLingo with a mindset of "I'm going to make mistakes" and just keep on going.

[@NelsonStJames]

To be fair, I've known people who took over three years of college language courses and aren't close to fluent.

[@cwash08]

Duolingo definitely got me started. When I saw い and then ち and then いち I was like oh shit I already know this means 1! Then when I put sentences together I knew I could continue with it. Of course I later got more serious. Anyone who gets more serious will often ditch it and come to have some reasoning for not using it. Also his videos are good I love them.

[@impastabowl2328]

I am not learning Japanese specifically but I am curious, what do you consider as being "more serious"? What did you do after?

[@cwash08]

@@impastabowl2328 I realized I wasn’t serious enough when I was spending 5-10 minutes a day on Duolingo, stopped for a few months, watched a the same basic japanesepod101 videos every couple months. I knew that there are a lot of words, a lot of grammar, I couldn’t put together any simple sentences or the only type of sentences I understood was AはB. What I did after that was to start to read. I personally use LingQ, but I know some people don’t like the app, especially for Asian languages. But what I did from that app was read through its mini stories. It is a set of 60 really short stories in one tense or point of view, then the story repeats in another point of view, then simple questions and answers about the passage. I would read/listen/look at individual sentences and do some combination (not necessarily in that order). The main thing to take away was that I built a habit after about a month. I usually read before I sleep and make a goal in my mind to finish “something” or reach some good checkpoint, it took me 2 or 3 months to get through the stories. This was around April 2020. I don’t necessarily say you need to use LingQ, because it has its flaws but at the same time I also think it is a strong tool. But I think beginners should learn simple words and go into “some sort” of series that is simple and listen, read, and try to understand it. If something doesn’t make sense, it is likely a grammar structure and not a word problem, so I find a video or something about it. This is the reason to read and listen because words alone won’t cut it. And the more foreign the languages, the more you see that things are thought about and expressed in a completely different way. Three reasons to go through a series is 1 to build a habit, 2 to have something to keep you going, and 3 to have a feeling of accomplishment when it is done and give yourself positive reinforcement. Some examples are to go through a playlist from the Comprehensible Japanese channel, or go through a playlist from Japanese from Zero channel, or use an Assimil Japanese course. Currently I’m listening to “Learn Japanese with Noriko” and reading a transcript in LingQ. I read or watch videos like Misa Real Japanese or Japanese ammo with Misa. Usually I count that in my time and study or read for about 30 min to 1 hr total. Sometimes I don’t but in general I try to keep the streak. I could be a lot better if I spent more time, but I am satisfied with what I do, I think I can comprehend around n3 reading if I spend time on it. My listening is not good and my speaking is barely nonexistent. Edit, forgot you said you’re not doing Japanese, but I think the concepts apply

[@Fafner888]

Duolingo is far more useful and effective than people give it credit for, ONLY PROVIDED that you use it in conjunction with immersion. Here's my experience with Japanese. I've been intensely watching anime for a year (with English subtitles), just for fun and with no intent of learning the language. Than after I decided I wanted to learn Japanese I started doing duolingo lessons. I've been doing duolingo for barely a month now, and I can tell you that I've learned SO MUCH in a very short amount of time. Already covered 20 unites so far (out of 90), by doing around a 1.5 units every two days or so. My comprehension of anime skyrocketed, I learned tons of grammar, and I greatly expended my vocabulary -- and I'm just starting. I'm speedrunning the whole thing and expect to finish the whole course in like 3 months if I continue at the same pace, which isn't even super intense (1-2 hours per day). What has happened is that I unconsciously absorbed a lot of the language whilst I was enjoying the shows by familiarizing myself with the sound system, learning some basic vocabulary, common phrases and expressions, and tiny bit of grammar. With that foundation, doing the duolingo lessons was really easy and almost felt like unlocking knowledge I already had. I also believe that the lessons are pretty well structured, especially the way they gradually progress through grammar. The most useful part is the exercises when you have to write sentences in Japanese, they are immensely effective in teaching grammatical principles and becoming familiar with basic Japanese sentence structure. And so based on my experience, I would suggest doing duolingo ONLY AFTER doing a fair bit of immersion. Because starting duolingo from scratch feels pretty slow and inefficient (as I found out by trying other language I've haven't had much chance to immerse with). For this reason, it's best to do some extensive immersion for around half a year or so and only then try duolingo. It's no secret that the key to language learning is to make the process enjoyable by maintaining motivation and the love for the language, and this is easy to do when you consume content that you like and enjoy. And once you eventually start systematic studies things feel much easier, and I believe more effective, because it's easier to understand (and remember) what you are studying when the language is already familiar and you are learning things you've been exposed to in the past. I should also add that duolingo shouldn't be your only source of study, as you should also consult books and look up youtube lessons to learn grammar, and just google things you don't understand, because doulingo doesn't really explain things in depth. But here's the thing with duolingo, the fact that it gives an insensitive to maintain a language learning routine, and the interactive element of constructing sentences in the target language (and the instantaneous feedback and corrections), I can't overstate how valuable and effective these things are. Of course you can achieve the same results by traditional methods of studying, but for lazy people like myself who often find it hard to keep being motivated for extended periods of time duolingo is a great tool for self-learning - again only provided that you use it the right way. Many people who complain about duolingo only judge it by the lessons in the beginning which indeed feel pretty boring and confusing if you are a complete beginner, but once you know the basics and able to speedrun the beginner parts, the more advanced lessons become very valuable and I would argue can rival other methods.

[@NopeDole]

I really enjoy Livakivi’s content and attitude towards language learning. He’s not trying to convince me his method is the best, instead he provides detailed and enjoyable stories. Perfect to listen to while working. Also, I would love to hear his thoughts on pitch accent and accents in general (I am aware they aren’t exactly the same). For example, as a non-native English speaker, does he feel the need to improve his accent in English? I personally don’t think he needs to; his opinions are clear; his vocabulary isn’t limited and overall, I think his accent is pleasant (I apologize if this is considered rude). Great interview!

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

That's a great point, if we get to talk to him again we'll definitely bring it up! (Or he could answer here if he sees the comment)

[@PatChatGC]

Hell yeah great episode as always guys!

[@humanbean3]

Nice I've been following Liva's progress for close to a year. Cool to see him here

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

It was an honor to have him on!

[@Seag-Gaming]

Livakivi inspired me to start learning Japanese, 8 months in so far :)

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Let's go!!

[@GAOMaster]

I was hoping a 2 hours video about Programming, Game development, VRChat stories and Art but I take it.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Maybe when we get him on again for round 2!

[@AntonioRadici]

Fantastic contribution! I love livakivi thanks for inviting him on the channel. Such a great and honest content creator. Obviously the like button was smashed!

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Thanks for the comment! Smashing the like button is what keeps the lights on here at KoreKara

[@mioakiyama4919]

I SMASHED THE LIKE BUTTON

[@user-lm5jf9tw3l]

Looks like i beat you to it Raza and Eric

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Looks like we got beat by Japanese

[@trewsmith]

like button OBLITERATED

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Can always count on the KoreKara Squad to do what’s necessary

[@paulwalther5237]

I'm that person that tries Duolingo and wants to rage quit on day 1.

[@mrparts]

You cannot learn to be fluent in any language until you're immersed in that language. Adjust expectations accordingly. You can communicate well and express basic things, but you aren't fluent. Duolingo is good for grabbing intuition and basics, thats all.

[@fatimahmakgatho8968]

Oh my gosh! I didn't see this coming

[@Mondryx]

Im 225 days into Duolingo and started looking into other ways to progress my studies. I recently discovered the Book "Rembering the Kanji" from James W. Heisig. And I absolutly love it! Im gonna keep using Duolingo and see how far I can take my Japanese with it. Probably gonna make some index cards.. but I have a trauma from school regarding these xD Cant stand them anymore.

[@Nighteye88]

I personally used "Memorise" for Hiragana and Katakana. And, I used it on my 10 minute breaks at work. By the time I checked Duolingo I didn't feel like it was worth the time on it at all. I checked out lingodeer too and really enjoyed it a lot more. Also, not many people know about it I think but Human Japanese was really good. But it isn't a free app so usually gets thrown under the rug but I think it's good for beginners. 😆

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Human Japanese is great! I used it for a bit when I first started as well and I remember Ananya talking about it in our interview with her as well!

[@Nighteye88]

@@KoreKaraPodcast yeah I would have not even bothered buying the Genki books I think if I had known about it first. 😂

[@cje8887]

infecting the like button

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Even better

[@okeyyess]

19:58 Yes actually, recently, i do use duolingo only for the purpose of learning hiragana and katakana. After that i quit duolingo entirely, and used the core 2k/6k. Personally, i would say that you definitely could only use duolingo, but its really insufficient and you probably wouldn't remember all of them. Based on my experience, i did use only duolingo for hiragana and i finished the course in around 2 days, And then started to like, "oo, i've finished the hiragana courses, now i can start reading!" But immediately realised that i cannot remember around half of them correctly. I would really often, have to check the words on the dictionary instead of properly recalling them. Take this with a grain of salt, but if you want to use duolingo for learning hiragana and katakana, just get familiar with them through "learn the characters" lesson on duolingo, and then start reading to kinda drill them into your memory. I would recommend searching for reading material in crunchy nihongo (not an ad btw, really just a personal recommendation) they have both hiragana and katakana, and very beginner friendly. Also, great video! livakivi is definitely one of my favorite content creator, and one of the main reason why i started to learn japanese lol.

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

every day remember people Iam smile no see again

[@sindrigujonsson6278]

He mentioned he had been taking one lesson a day... That is not at all enough to get you far

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

for me is the truth reason understand because every day people amazing

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

when together more faster duolingo

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

I think in english remember all the time people London Iam lost people now smile

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

for me is every study

[@pavelgajdosik7664]

One lesson a day on Duolingo had to be useless. I studied Japanese lightly for around 18 months, next to Chinese and Spanish, I learned hiragana, katakana and some Kanji, and only then, just recently, tried Duolingo Japanese, and as a pseudo beginner I like it a lot. The sentences seem to be quite well chosen, the problems with translation into English are only minor because Duolingo tolerance for different answers has increased and for free, I find the course quite helpful. I am a serious language learner, Japanese is my eighth language and I know that things get useful only when you put a lot of time in. I don’t do only Duolingo, I do Skritter, try listening to Japanese online radio and Japanese audiobooks, but Duolingo makes me to form different types of Japanese sentences and it has a place in my daily routine. I will put more time in than your guest in a few months and there is no reason why it shouldn’t improve my Japanese. All time spent with the language is beneficial but it can’t be only 15 minutes a day. One keeps forgetting older stuff when doing 15 minutes a day. Do one hour of any language a day, or better give up.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Thank you for sharing!

[@Sylkenwolf]

I have done Duolingo for almost twn years and still am not conversational confident with German. It feels more gamey and I know I need pro training!

[@Sylkenwolf]

I still love the "owl" learning! I do want another way to learn but just haven't found it!

[@user-jd9sj1mq2b]

What's the name of the song in the intro, I can't recall it right now.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Omae Wa Mou - Deadman

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

I study in duolingo

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

Iam benniger in english I try study every day...

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

I dont need study only remember people Iam doing

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

reason understand english for me easy others languages

[@scotthullinger4684]

A lot can be learned from language apps. But even so ... they are NO substitute for speaking with a live human being.

[@Daniel-qi1ld]

I left Duolingo 3 months ago, I had been learning English on the app for 3 years, but now I left it because I feel bored of it. I prefer to use Memrise instead. Duolingo is so repetitive and it feels Zzzz

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

maybe people angry I like freedom

[@dragonofthewest8305]

It depends how many hours the person uses Duolingo for if he had used it for 1000 hours he would have been fluent

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

is there even that many hours of content on it tho

[@krissve]

@@KoreKaraPodcast I just watched someone that has a been on it for like 6 years straight and got fluent in German, so most likely yes

[@krissve]

“I used it like 5min a day”.. later “I used it like 10 to 50min a day” “I used it the most 100 hrs” “The vocabulary is not good, I can’t tell you how many verbs I learned because I learned the same with the other app” 🤔 I don’t think he has the consistency most people has to learn language from an app. Just say you didn’t like it the style and move on. I stopped using it a long time ago because I got bored, but I can’t blame my lack of consistency with “i Carley used it but I’m not fluent” 🥴

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

but why? understand because is people

[@cyanure1320]

3 Years of (put anything you want in it except living with peoples talking the native langage) _ still not fluent = obviously

[@MariadeLourdesAniesSanch-ze7hf]

but something no understand maybe study

[@muellerkun]

And they did update it again, and they ruined the progress again, and at streak of 1080 days this really is disheartening...

[@scottycannon6043]

🙃 P-R-O-M-O-S-M!!

[@j5679]

I think this interview was pretty bad. The majority of the time was spent discussing Duolingo, even though LivaKivi himself doesn't really recommend it and has presented his views on it in a video already. The interviewers should have moved the topic to immersion, Anki or output, just something that is actually relevant and that LivaKivi viewers might actually not already know. I can't help but feel like the interviewers didn't actually research the interviewee and prepare questions.

[@fatimahmakgatho8968]

Yeah...I agree. It felt a bit messy too