302 SBC Camshaft Selection - 1968 Camaro Z/28 - We have to replicate the factory sound of the 30/30!

[@deancrawford2577]

When so many build their 350 's to death, it's great to see a 302 being built. I have a great respect of the' unsung heroes' like 302's, both Chev and Ford.

[@Dogboy1960]

Even the 350 is becoming a tough choice. 327s and 302s are almost never built. A least not for anything but a numbers matching piece of history. It's easy to explain. You can "dress" a SBC to look like what ever you want it to appear to be. Inside though, stroker bottom ends and infinitely better heads, than avaiable back in the day, along with excellent Roller cam profiles have just changed the game so significantly. There is no good reason to give away all the mid and low end power with small displacements and 400-500HP small blocks are just so common in the 383+ displacement. 50 years ago and a trans am rule book that mandated a peanut sized SBC is a long time ago. Worse still? Modern muscle car power is a new "boggie" to shoot for. Starting with a 302" displacement is a huge disadvantage in the effort to get to a place where your '69 Z/28 can make a move on a Modern Muscle car. We are a long way from when a 300+HP SBC was considered a pretty "stout" combination.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Different points of view, thanks guys. AG

[@reevesautomotivefarm9614]

It is nice to see a good 302 build. I built a 327 for my old Nova for similar reasons although financially not the best decision is 350 parts are cheap and readily available now it's hard to find those old 302 327 parts without having custom pistons made for example

[@deancrawford2577]

@@reevesautomotivefarm9614 I also have a soft spot for a 327, I remember my uncle had a very hot El Camino with a 327, absolutely astonishing performance I would never had guessed it was a 327, the mid to top rpm was almost vtec like lol. 🤣

[@firebirdjone]

On my original 69 Z I built the engine true to stock form, unported heads, custom JE pistons with the pin height moved for close to zero deck so I didn't have to deck the block for obvious reasons. The cam is a custom solid flat tappet with tight lash (.014" cold) with .495 lift so it ends up close to the stock advertised lift after lash is figured in. Ground on a 112 LSA and .050 duration is around 240 if I recall correctly. idles at 1000 with 10 inches of vacuum at 5000 ft elevation and works the power brakes fine. Nice flat torque curve on the dyno that stays within 15 ft lbs. of peak throughout the entire pull (peak tq at 4300) and makes peak power at 6300 but holds on within 5 HP to 7000. Engine is driven and dyno'd on 91 octane fuel. A little over 50,000 miles on the engine now over the last 7 years. Runs nicely at any RPM. One thing I do is have the camshaft nitrided and also run the solid lifter with the EDM hole so the lobes see direct oiling at all times. The lash on this engine has not budged since break in and over 50,000 miles. I just check it once a year. Idle video kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4uTeZ97jpyVbZY

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thank you very much Firebird. That is a very impressive build and you captured the sound right on. Lot's of great recommendations, most of which we will be doing also. Can you share the peak HP numbers with us? AG

[@firebirdjone]

​@@goldsgarage8236 peak HP at the flywheel was 378 and peak tq was 373. Cam was set at 107 icl and that was with a set of headers. On a chassis dyno I misjudged the weather and had the carb too fat. Drove it 2 hours to get there in the morning and circumstances didn't have me on the dyno till late day when it was hot outside (phoenix) and the da climbed to almost 4000 ft. It made 284/277 with AFR in the high 11's. I didn't have time to lean the carb. I felt it might have made closer to 300 at the tire.

[@racerd9669]

A good tip for you is to assemble just the #1 rod and piston, and then dial in the cam. You can rotate the engine so much smother and get you readings on the degree wheel so much finer. Also the DZ is a true 69 Z28 block.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Right on Racer, thanks for the comment. that is how i usually do it, but we haven't even picked the cam yet and i had all the rotating assembly ready to install so I wanted to get it together while i have the time. AG.

[@scottruether2500]

Clay Smith C304 solid flat tappet woke up a friend's 1969 Z. Folks couldn't believe it was only 302 cubes. Car had 4.88 gears it loved it. Later changed to a 4.30 so it had better street manners.

[@sachenstein]

I'm building a dana 60 3.54 posi and powerglide, i guess I'll be spending some time in first, hehe.

[@sachenstein]

If i had a large journal 3.00 crank I'd do it, but happy to try the setup with 3.25, partly because the engine has all its own bits, i could only trace numbers back to 68 camaro or chevelle.

[@larryburns4605]

A Clay Ith C304 6 B runs good in most sb Chevy's I have used in many

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Scott. When I first had my 1968 Z28 it was my daily driver and i has 4.88's in it. I replaced them with 3.55 when i restored it in 2016. AG

[@billfioretti3013]

G.M. used to include ramps in their advertised durations. Skewed the numbers upward quite a bit. i.e 346 total degree duration then. Same true total manufacturers advertised duration today and the engine won't run. Two different methods of rating. Also, great tips on flat tappet break-in. I used to use nitrated components in past years. In recent years, cryogenically treated cams and flat lifters. Like you, never lost a camshaft in 50 years of engine building, street and off-road competition. Keep up the great work and information. Despite being a True Blue Ford Guy, I really enjoy your channel!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Bill, we have a Ford project in the pipeline, watch for it. AG

[@billfioretti3013]

@@goldsgarage8236 Thank you. Looking forward to it.

[@markv4016]

Brings back engine screaming memories of my first (and only) 456 geared 68 Z28 back in the early 70’s. I had put a factory GM performance cam that was hotter (sowing machine sounding 30/30 lash cam?)than the original cam but do not think it was one of the 2 off road cams they had for it. Original owner did a back yard porting job and had a Crowler roller in it when I had bought it. Adjust the lifters and new set of plugs every so often and it pulled like freight train till @ 7,200rpm. It kind of lived over 6,000 rpm and thank fully I survived :-) The hotter GM cam (for originality), professional porting with the same gear I had and he will be very happy! BTW.. Now a 70 Cuda Mopar!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Mark, a 70 Cuda is cool for sure. AG

[@BrandonLeeBrown]

Crower camshaft # 00321, flat tappet solid lifter. 242/248/114 - .482" intake/ .504" exhaust. (This one will sound like the 30-30 camshaft). Crower recommends camshaft # 00322, 248/254/112 - .504" / .528" for the shorter stroke.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Brandon, AG

[@mrho4speed]

Great video and I also enjoy reading the comments = like going to cam college!!! Nothing will effect an engine more than the cam selection so it is important for the owner/driver to be accurate and realistic about the car and the desired result. It all has to work together and glad you mentioned the rear gear ratio as well. Keep the videos coming and thank you!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks you 4Speed. AG

[@davidreed6070]

People argue about David's formula,but it works well. I was thinking 242. 248. On a 110 1.6. rocker on the imtake I have used the Duntof 30. 30. Cam. Back in the day.

[@sachenstein]

Hi, my moon cam is 246/243 & 110. I'm tempted to get a copy done to use, as this one could be a collectable nos.

[@davidreed6070]

@@sachenstein if you flip the dur Sbc engines respond well with a little more ex duration. Almost all engines do.

[@sachenstein]

Yeah i pondered that too, it's mostly a street engine, thinking of enlarging the exhaust valves by. 030, not sure if it would compensate much.

[@davidreed6070]

@@sachenstein if it is an automatic you might think about the torque converter.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for all the comments Guys. David, all Z28's were 4 speeds.AG

[@pontiac411]

I watched a video where Keith Dorton used spray graphite also, sounds like a good safety measure.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Pontiac, I can't really prove that it helps, but it doesn't hurt for sure. AG

[@blkcoupequattro]

Years back, friend of mine I grew up with his dad worked for Good Chevrolet in Alameda California. Good Chevrolet is gone now his dad is also, but my friend use to talk about the DZ302 his dad bought for project the never came around that engine sat in the garage for years, think my friend finally found a use for the engine been a while since I spoke with him. As for David Vizard there are a lot of people that have had the opportunity to talk with David, his knowledge on cylinder heads, and camshafts engine dynamics is amazing. I had the opportunity back in the mid 80's to speak to David on the phone about a English Ford 1600 engine I was building with a turbo, he was a wealth of knowledge on the subject and had remarked about he had set a class record using a English Ford he had built for a Formula Ford car at the time. Late 60's 70's were the best times for motorsport just my opinion.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Great story, thanks for sharing.AG

[@johnmilner7603]

After losing 2 solid lifter cams in my 70 Z/28 while using oils with plenty of ZDDP I went roller. When I owned by 68 Z/28 in 1974 it was a fun car at night. A friend of mine is the current owner of the 68, British Green, white stripes and black interior. If I was selecting a solid cam I would use Howards and their lifters cause they have a laser hole for that extra oil on the lobes. That lube looks like what Crane used when I installed a Crane solid cam in my 70 Z.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info and contributing to my channel John.AG

[@richardsutliffe1793]

I notice this video is several months old so you may have made your camshaft choice by now. If not, here is my two cents: I rebuilt a '68 Z28 that had been used as a drag race car. After a false start with a race cam that didn't work out, my machine shop redid my 302 engine. It's now .040 over, 10.5 CR, original 2.02/1.6 heads with a full race port. I have 4.10 rear gears. I chose the Comp Cams Nostalgia Plus mechanical flat tappet cam part # 12-673-4. Specs are 247/254 duration @ .050" with .504/.498 intake/exhaust lift and a 112 degree LSA. It has a tighter valve lash setting of .012/.012 and lists an operating range of 2,300 to 6,900 rpm. It's described as making "outstanding power and a modern tight lash with the exhaust note of the GM 30-30 cam." I have been very happy with this cam. People describe the stock 302 Z28 engines as having little to no bottom end power below 4,000-4,500 rpm. With this combination my car pulls easily from 2,500-3,000 up. In fact, you almost don't know it's only a little 302. It also pulls strongly up to 7,000 rpm. I'm sure there are racing cams that would be even stronger, but my feeling is that if you want to build a 302 Z28 for primarily street use and make very good drivable power throughout the rpm range, this cam should be on your short list. It sounds like a 302 Z28 engine and still pulls to 7,000 rpm when you want it. By the way, the guy that did my heads doesn't like the old 1st and 2nd design Chevy race cams. He describes them as "old, low and slow" and his specialty is building heads for modern circle track and road race cars.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for all your comments and information Richard. The 12-673-4 is exactly the cam that we did pick. It was Tony's choice and he did the research on it. Your comments are a great affirmation for Tony's choice. Tony, are you watching this? AG

[@Haffschlappe]

Could you please try a Set of 32 Valve heads Made by Thunderpower for Chevy Bigböocks?

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the question. I have never even seen a 32V head for a BBC. AG

[@Schlipperschlopper]

@@goldsgarage8236 They are for sale by an US company that developed that kind of head for the Army during the 1970s! They still offer those 32V OHV-OHV conversion heads. The company is called valley head service and the heads are called thunderpower 32V they add 170HP without any cam change, I would LOVE to see a true world test of them! Most interestingly they use a pushrod vertical-horizontal patent from 1936 its a german OHV patent used for the first time to get spherical combustion chambers and V arranged valves on the pre war BMW 2 Litre inline 6 from BMW 327/328 sport roadster later used by Frazer Nash and Bristol in UK.

[@sachenstein]

Hi from New Zealand. Love your instructional videos. I'm building a 327 (4660) with 461 heads, and offenhauser 360 ram and 650dp. I was given a new old stock moon cam by an old gentleman who built some of the T/A camaro's here for race duty. He told me it was one they were going to use but their engines ran so well they didnt need it so it sat on the cam shelf for decades. He said it's a dz302 cam that will make my 327 run well. Here's hoping, just thought you'd like the story.

[@sachenstein]

I got it cam doctored years ago, i can send a screenshot, but it's pretty faint.

[@goldsgarage8236]

It's a great story, thanks for contributing all the way from New Zealand. AG

[@robertwest3093]

Nice to see that Summit is including the right sized package of lube for their cams. The last cam I bought was a Comp XE268 and it had a package about half that size.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Robert. I really like the lube they use. AG

[@edpetrocelli2633]

My favorite go-to street, mild strip & 4wd cam was a comp 12-213-3. I put them in a bunch of motors, stock stall speed converters or stall ones for 10 yrs although they say 3000 stall. No failures but I did try to order P 55 cores. 501/501 244/244 110LSA I wasn`t a numbers matching original kinda dude.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info Ed, good to hear from you again. AG

[@nojunkwork5735]

In my younger days racing stock cars, guys would talk about using graphite for cam break in lube. Graphite may be good for a door lock but not for a camshaft break-in lube. Because of its molecular composition, graphite delaminates under severe loads such as cam to lifter contact with high valve spring pressure. I think what has kept you in the ball game was that you are using a good cam lube with the graphite. I use a good cam lube and a high ZDDP 1200 ppm oil when I run in a new cam and have never burned down any cam lobes.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info. AG

[@gregcampbell3064]

Going against everyone reliving history crowd. Go solid roller. Had one in a 396/375 clone engine, 4.10's, 3800 stall, and let's say it was impressive in my 66 Chevelle. Another great video.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Gregory, it will be solid for sure. More to come on this subject. AG

[@davidparizek6741]

Alan, this is my favorite new channel, keep up the Great Work 👍 Can’t wait to see this 302 on the Dyno

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for watching and commenting David. AG

[@donlukes2805]

Great video

[@michaelmaher4328]

nice discussion on the 302, I'd like to volunteer to help dial the engine in once in the 68. I'm wanting to speed-shift the 4 speed at 7200 rpm, 7500 rpm and 7800 rpm on multiple test-hits to help real world driving conditions, Lol

[@goldsgarage8236]

Sure Michael, you get to drive it right after me! AG

[@michaelvoigt724]

Love the content, I'm a huge fan of the good old SBC!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Michael, lots more to come. AG

[@zapper302]

The 140 optional cam worked great in my 69 Z.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Dave from BC. I have used this cam in the past also. AG

[@garyhosier4765]

For a factory type build it’s very interesting. I’d be awful tempted for a roller cam for ease of maintenance with todays oils but I’d love to have the original type cam also.

[@goldsgarage8236]

That is our dilemma exactly Gary. Thanks for commenting.AG

[@scottmcmullen7541]

302 Chev's are fun little engines. We used a Solid Roller with roughly (memory lol) .570/.580 250/260 @.050 with a 112 LSA. car had a short gear set and ran strong. it just didnt have the Z/28 sound but it did sound great.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Scott, good point, it's going to be difficult to replicate the 302 sound with a roller. AG

[@kostrans5948]

From Australia here I had my MO 302 rebuilt last year original block and crank aftermarket I beam rods and aftermarket factory style pistons , steel fuellie heads sy1 750 dp and twin point dizzy I wanted to keep it period correct as a lot was missing the cam was A solid cam I lost the cam card from memory it was 230ish /240ish 540ish lift 108 ls the cam was chosen to keep the rpm’s under 6500rpm to preserve the engine , going into my British green z28

[@kostrans5948]

Forgot to mention it made 446hp and 396tq

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info, 446/396 is a great number for 302cu.in. 1.47HP/cu.in. AG

[@UncleVom]

Historically correct, GM 2nd Design Off-Road Cam. (-;

[@scotthatch4548]

I like that camshaft and have used it a few times .... And would be a good choice for this engine.. I did not check the timing events but I think that was the second cam mentioned in the video ..... 7000 rpm 302 will not have a lot of bottom end power anyway and will need gear

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comments guys. AG

[@jasondearduff8274]

The only choice

[@toddbrown2236]

Excellent video. All this talk about Z-28s makes me think that maybe I should build one after the Goat is finished (my wife would kill me - ha!). Thanks for the update and another great lesson on the thought process that goes into engine building. Well done!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Todd. AG

[@utahcountypicazospage5412]

The last comp cam that you mentioned that the door pattern I believe you said it’s on a 112 go with that one. It will let you idle better since intake a smaller, but still have plenty of nasty top it with the bigger exhaust just a smarter grind.

[@jeffreydurham5342]

On flat tappet cam break-in, use oil specifically designed for it, Driven BR30 is excellent. It has the proper extreme pressure additives and no detergents to compromise them. I've had excellent results.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info Jeffrey. AG

[@jimkillen1065]

I had a 302 built for my 68 Camaro .. i used a larger journal 302 Crank .. i used the stock rods prepared by a shop in fort worth that builds dirt track engines . Sps rods bolts . I used a set of cylinder heads of a g gas car titanium valves ect ect ..i used a 600 isky roller cam . Joe mar , roller rockers ect ect ....i has the block bore honed deck plate .. i spun the engine to 7500 regularly.. ..This engine showed me the valve of a good set of cylinder heads that had a lot of work done to them ..

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for sharing your experience Jim. AG

[@shane-222]

Custom Howard’s cam. Correct valve events are more important than lift, and with OEM castings the roller lift won’t matter anyway. What’s the ported flow??

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Shane, we will flow the heads first. AG

[@dondotterer24]

I like the first cam that you mentioned. But your friend Bill or Mike Jones camshafts might have a better idea. Great idea using the dry graphite. It really sticks. I've tested it. Thanks for the videos.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comments Don, more to come on this subject. AG

[@BradleyAugustyn]

Comp cams XS274S solid lifter cam would give similar RPM range to the original Duntov 30-30 cam. It would make additional power at every point in the range without shifting the range. The choke point will be the cylinder head regardless of the cam chosen. Aluminum "double hump" heads are available from TFS (appears like '186 casting w/accessory holes) and from Speedmaster (appears like a '461 casting wo/accessory holes.) With painted aluminum heads, you would get stock casting appearance with modern port and combustion chamber design. You would also get light weight, easy modification, and easy repair.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Bradley, I will check out the cam. I agree on the TFS heads. My friend Tom used them on his 383 a few years ago because it was going into a 55 Chevrolet truck and he wanted it to look retro. They did well on the dyno even with a bigger engine. AG

[@BradleyAugustyn]

@@goldsgarage8236 See the dyno test by Richard Holdener "L76 327, how to add 100hp" kzbin.info/www/bejne/bWq6hatmm5hqrdE He dyno tests the mechanical lifter comp cam (XS274S) vs the Duntov 30-30 on a stock L76 vintage 327.

[@HeadFlowInc]

With at least 220 cfm+ you can run the Comp Cams 282S solid lifter cam, I recommend running 1.60 rockers on it. 11.00-1 SCR this combo is proven to make 400+ HP @6500 rpm and 390+ TQ @4500 rpm.

[@donaldcavey6241]

I used a factory Gm Z28 cam. Lowered compression to 10.5 :1 to run 93 pump gas and made 367 hp at 6000 rpm.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Good info and good results. Thanks Donald. AG

[@jarheaded9278]

What size engine?

[@Scubasteve22]

My cam choice would be Comp cams 12-679-5. Extreme energy 290. Would help get this valvetrain into the modern era. I would stay away from a 114 LSA. Crower also has a nice one part number 00322. Appreciate you letting us participate! If you are swinging for the fences to get max hp, go with the comp. If you are wanting something close to but more modern and more power than the original, then go with the crower. Thanks

[@goldsgarage8236]

Great comments Steve. This kind of input is exactly what we are looking for. We will keep you posted. AG

[@davidholcomb9961]

Summit has some circle track cams. It's been said that wedge style chambers work best with narrow lobe separation angles. Of course, your friend Bill Little knows how to make small blocks run so just ask him!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks David. AG

[@robertandmaxwell]

I have used the COMP 12-673-4 Which is the 30 30 + from their Nostalgia Plus series. It's such a bitchin cam... Sounds perfect, behaves a little better than the Orig etc. I feel it would be perfect for this combo and you won't be disappointed. I almost used it again for my latest build but opted to have a custom version of the -097 Duntov ground instead. Just a little more tame vs the original 30/30 cam.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Robert, info from real experience is valuable. AG

[@randypozdnikoff4099]

I have that Nostalgia 3030 cam and ran the edm solid lifters. Sounds amazing! I have used molybdenum paste as my cam break in lube. Haven't had any issues. I hope to create a combination of big bore and shorter stroke but with 11:1 compression, maybe a 377 and use this cam. Looking forward to dyno days!

[@robertandmaxwell]

@@randypozdnikoff4099 Definitely a good thing to run those cam saver lifters. I always run Crower lifters in my builds and they offer the edm hole version as well as a ground flat alongside the hydraulic versions. Their quality is always top notch IMO.

[@robertandmaxwell]

@@goldsgarage8236 The intake closing point is perfect for the higher compression combo as well. I think it's about 70-72 ABDC. I have an 11:1 350 for a customer coming up soon and was sure to double check that event before committing to the order.

[@broncobill54]

The comp cam with 112 LSA Nostalgia 30-30 S is a pretty sweet cam. That’s the one I choose.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Bill. That would be my sentimental favorite. We have Tony's cam ordered and will be making more videos about his 302 as soon as it arrives. AG

[@broncobill54]

I have that exact cam in a 355 Chevy 79 Z28

[@broncobill54]

It’s .012 tight lash not .030 like the 30 30 of old.

[@jamescherney5874]

First, a couple of corrections. Duntov was Belgian not German and the Duntov Cam was developed for the 283 in the 1st generation Corvettes. It was not the 30-30 Cam used in the Z28. The 30-30 was developed purely for road racing and as mentioned is not happy being driven on the street. Recommendation would be the Isky Z-25 or Z-27 solid . The 108 LSA works well and does not undue the overlap like the 114 LSA would. I installed a Z-25 in a 57 Vette with the stock 283 and it works good and idles about 950 rpm. With 10.5 comp and the better Z28 heads it should give 7000 rpm easy and a wider powerband.

[@robertandmaxwell]

I think the z25 cam is totaly worth a try but I'm suspect of the intake close degrees. I think it might be early for this higher compression combo.

[@shelbyavant5081]

Duntov was Russian, buddy. Do your research before correcting others in a public forum. He was merely born in Belgium.

[@jamescherney5874]

@@shelbyavant5081 OK Buddy, His parents were Russian, he was born in Belgium and grew up in Germany. Hope you are satisfied.

[@shelbyavant5081]

@@jamescherney5874 Grew up in Russia, bro. Moved to Germany when he was 18. Try again. Or don't, preferably.

[@jamescherney5874]

@@shelbyavant5081 You won.

[@billlittle4285]

Nice hone job by Atchisons Alan!!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Bill. And with the 1/16 ring package, torque to turn is 20-22 ft. lb. AG

[@joracer1]

We ran off road z28 cam way back.. but these days I'd run solid roller with .550 lift 248 @050 and 108 to 110 CL

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Jo, I used the off road cam also back in the 70's. We didn't have as many choices as we do now. AG

[@jakewade7388]

I would call and talk to Bullet Cams. They have a lot of UD Harold’s grinds. If you don’t know who he is, look him up. A cam designer legend.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the tip Jake. AG

[@jakewade7388]

Harold Brookshire (UD Harold) was his name. He had Ultradyne cams. Bullet cams is Mississippi has his masters. They make great cams and will help you with your decision. Very knowledgeable folks there.

[@MarkOlson-w6r]

Hello love the channel and this 302 build you are doing could not come at more perfect time for me. I have 69 z/28 100 percent survivor with beautiful original glacier blue paint. I recently discovered it has two cracked pistons and and I’m looking to rebuild the motor and make it gas friendly for today with a solid roller cam. I’d love to talk about your build for Tony and gets some advice for me.

[@goldsgarage8236]

sure Mark, you can call me at 226-980-7499. AG

[@joe-hp4nk]

If you can dig one up, I would go with a 1st design racing cam #3927140. It has 256 268 @ 50, 469 483 lift, 112 LSA. The GM solid lifters are the best choice for their hard foot but they're hard to fine. the spring to use is #3927142 or equivalent.

[@hk45c62]

Elgin Cams still makes a direct copy. Your valve lift numbers are off.

[@joe-hp4nk]

@@hk45c62 I got It out of a old GM performance catalog, but I think you're right.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Great info, thanks Joe. AG

[@Comet-hn3gm]

Out of the cams you mentioned the Howards roller will make the most power. I agree with one of the guys on here that said 242@.050 and 248. But I would run 246 on the exhaust if its going to have headers. Put as much lift at the intake valve as you can. On another note; a lower tension oil ring package is worth the effort. No downside.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Comet, not sure if i mentioned, we used a 1/16" 1/16" file fit ring package and the torque to turn was 20-22 ft. lb. Typically with a new engine, about 30 ft. lb. is normal. AG

[@Comet-hn3gm]

@@goldsgarage8236 I did hear the ring size. I missed the torque to rotate. Not too bad.

[@reevesautomotivefarm9614]

I feel like the roller cam is the way to go. Knowing what we know today that's going to yield far better performance than the cams GM had to use as a compromise back in the day. I ran a similar spect flat tappit cam in my old 327 for many years. It sounds pretty nasty but still yields reasonable 12 to 14 in of vacuum at idle.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Reeves, a roller will make more power for sure. AG

[@clicks59]

Great video. I am looking for cam recommendations for my 327, flat tops, stock cast iron 2:02’s, C3BX dual plane. It’s going into a 63 Chevy short bed, 700r4 with a 2500 rpm stall converter and 3:73 gears. It’s mainly street driven but I am not too worried about street-ability. It’s an old build and has an Engle 267/.460 hyd cam. Thanks in advance.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Clicks, the cam you have isn't far off. You have a small displacement engine in a heavy vehicle. How about a COMP 268H? AG

[@clicks59]

@@goldsgarage8236 Thanks! I will check it out.

[@Gary65-fl4rz]

Another good choice would be Comp 12-309-4 It’s referred to as magnum muscle, a step up from the factory cam. Has .489 lift, 248 duration at .050, and 110 LSA. The shorter duration with the tighter LSA gives almost identical overlap as the stock cam.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Gary, looks like a good option also. AG

[@smilsmff]

Howard's Cams is best bet TFS, Has double Hump heads max flow 250 cfm can be painted to look like factory

[@goldsgarage8236]

That is a tempting option. WE used them on a Retro 383 and they worked great. AG

[@johnzuggster375]

Thank you, your are truly Gold!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks John, compliments like this keep me going. AG

[@markmcmullen1371]

My choice for cam would be 112062-10 from Howards, it would bring down the LSA from 114 stock to 110 which would help low end torque and the reduction in duration at .050 would still keep a similar overlay so the exhaust tone I think would the same or better.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the suggestion Mark.AG

[@donlukes2805]

Just found 3 69 blocks 3 4053 DZ carbs and all of the other good stuff plan to have 3 motors built fun fun fun.

[@goldsgarage8236]

You are a lucky man Don.AG

[@tonyguzzo53]

Using the David Vizard’s formula LSA should be 111, the Howard’s cam is a great choice only it’s a roller, but the Comp 12-673-4 seems to also be a good choice with 112 LSA

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Tony, the 12-673-4 is ordered. AG

[@HeadFlowInc]

Factory iron heads, mild port work it’s highly recommended to shoot for a “Net” lift near .525”+ after lash. Don’t kill all the low end drive ability by running too much camshaft. With a 3.00” stroke you won’t need much more than a @.050” 230-235 on a tight LSA; I’d personally recommend an LSA 108-110 Max 112. Note: Factory GM cams were measured differently resulting in way different numbers compared to modern camshaft profiles. If you run a Dontov 30/30 or even the GM LT1 cam the 302 will sound mean but only make power above 4500+ rpm resulting in a nightmare driver in traffic/street.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks HeadFlow, brings back memories of my Z28 when it was new. You make a good point about the duration.AG

[@____MC____]

Ive done the graphite spray and moly on my last camshaft. I always wondered if it hurts it like having too much zddp.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks MC, not sure how much it helps but pretty sure it doesn't hurt. I will keep doing it. AG

[@danhammel4279]

What is a Zed? I've always called them a "Z" 28. I love your videos...keep it up!!!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Dan, that is the Canadian pronunciation, one of the few differences from USA. AG

[@kevinclemence4661]

DV's "128 Formula" has fairly tight specifics with regards to the results. In conversation, it's been said that it targets a in-line valve wedge head with 10.5:1 CR and an average Coefficient of Discharge of the intake valve ( with an good but not trick valve job as seen with a 2.02" valve). The 128 # LCA = 128 - (CID/# of Cylinders/In Valve dia. in inches x 0.91) That gets your 108 LSA for 350 CID. As you state in your video, wander outside of that and the formula has certain caveats. Less CID and the LSA opens up. Better flow via a larger intake valve, wider LSA again. Higher CR, same thing. What I don't know, and I've asked DV directly (still waiting on his email...) is what exactly is that Torque Master cam spec supposed to produce? Best peak torque? Highest average overall torque? No idea. For the record, his Torque Master Cam selecting program and the cam I had designed by Mike Jones (Jones cams) for a drag racing orientated 350 are nearly identical. 108 LSA by the way. When I inquired about a street/strip version for the same engine, Jones spec'd a 110 LSA. As for the 302, it seems to me your targeting more than performance as the sound is a critical element of this build. At least as it appears so from this side of the keyboard. Good luck and following with interest (as always).

[@kevinclemence4661]

Mr G. Have you come across DV 128 writeup regarding the "rule's" origin and application?

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Kevin, appreciate your comments as always. AG

[@rogerstill719]

In 1968 Chevrolet went to a larger journal on the crankshaft, so are 1968 and 1969 302's large journals? I'm not including the 400. It has a 2.65 main. I like the saying RPM tales the place of torque. I'd like to see the head flow lift by lift when you are finished with them. I believe that is the only way to choose the right camshaft

[@goldsgarage8236]

That is correct Roger. 68-69 crankshafts had large journals, 2.1" and 2.45" . AG

[@antilaw9911]

Love the Golds Garage neon sign 👍

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comment. AG

[@4speed3pedals]

LSA actually determines cylinder fillng. Less or more , what to do? David Vizard and Cattle Dog Garage both have the same formula and it is not by coincidence. Cattle Dog Garage expolains it much better and I am not mocking Vizard. Vizard has complimented Cattle Dog for how smoothly he explained what he has trouble doing due to actual brain surgery. Back in the day, we also talked about the 30-30 cam as being the fuelie cam. The Duntov cam was the original 097 cam for the fuel injected 283 released in 1957. The 30-30 is the second iteration for the 327 with fuel injection. Only "younguns? call the 30-30 cam a Duntov. Zora is the godfather of the Corvette and was instrumental with the CERV I and the CERV ii. Camshaft seelection for Z is up to the owner. If I had a numbers matching Z motor, no way would I put a roller camshaft in it. Why? have you ever driven a Corvette with the 365 HP engine? If you haven't then keep your comments to yourself and only say them in front of a mirror for you pleasure. I have experience with 2 factory products products and it was awesome. Today, the people getting into performance are turbo and computer GEEKS. Back in the day, these people would have been a total flop. Now the NHRA caters to this crowd. I love normally aspirated engines and what it takes to make the work and the Z engine worked and the C2 365 hp engine did also. The "Off Road" cams did not kick in until 4,000 rpm but I understand it was a total "rush". My brother put a 350 HP hydraulic cam in a stock bodied '56 Chevy in his 327 and it could pick up one whee on acceleration. Fast? up to the time slip. Can the average person distinguish? NO! Please, go for the repo 30-30 cam. It will be fun with bragging rights.

[@lessharratt8719]

Agreed.

[@leosun8469]

I had a ‘69 Z/28 with the 30/30 cam some time ago- wish I had the car still. That being said, I’ve had other Camaros with a solid lifter sbc, and the 30/30 was ok, but not the best.Definitely old technology and there are FAR better grinds nowadays.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for your point of view 4Speed. You have a strong following. AG

[@richb4099]

If you’ve built 30 engines in the last few years and had zero flat lifter failures, you’re definitely doing things right. What lifters have you been using to have a perfect track record? I read and see so many posts about trashed lifters and cams and see unreal pictures! I Many builders won’t build anything with flat lifters anymore!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Actually i have used many kinds of lifters. Some quick points, avoid excessive spring pressure, make sure lifters rotate, coat cam and lifters with break in lube, use break in oil with ZDDP, pre-lube the system before starting, avoid cranking the engine before starting, prepare fuel and timing for a quick clean start, vary RPM between 2000-2500RPM for the first 20 minutes of operation at least, I shut down after the first 5-10 minutes and check all the valves, let it cool down, start again. I also use a Moroso Pre-screen on the oil filter. I also hold my breath for the first 20 minutes, not sure if that helps. AG

[@richb4099]

@@goldsgarage8236 That’s pretty much the normal routine for any knowledgeable engine guys. I only ever had one BB Chev that wiped a lobe during its first operation. I built the engine but the owner installed it in his Chevelle and did the initial start and run. It was never much of an issue in the past but sure is now. I used the direct lube Howard’s solid lifters and had zero problems. I am building engines again in an engine shop and we just did a GM crate 602. No problem with the cam and lifters and we dynoed it. Don’t know what cam and lifters went in that one. Most of what I put together lately had roller lifters.

[@yarrdayarrdayarrda]

4:29 That block needs to be decked in the worst way, you can see the waves of the factory broaching, corrosion and scratching from sanding, especially between 4 and 6.

[@mikewillett5076]

Yep , and he said the block had about as much as can be done to it, lol. Besides getting it flat, a .025" shave (doesn't necessarily HAVE TO be that much) will get that 10.5 up to it's specs of 11:1.

[@yarrdayarrdayarrda]

@@mikewillett5076 The reasoning is the sacred GM stamping, but I fear there'll be gasket sealing issues, especially on an unforgiving steel shim gasket.

[@mikeday8826]

This may be a dumb question, but could you just stop the mill before it gets to the casting number? It's out on the edge, so wouldn't necessarily hurt the head gasket sealing?

[@jeffreydurham5342]

​@@mikeday8826yes, jamsi did it on a 396 to preserve the numbers.Jims automotive machine.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comments on the block everyone. I'm not sure why it looks like that in the video but Atchison machine checked it and so did I. We will be using a .015" OEM type head gasket as planned. If there are any issues we will have to deal with them. I will report back on this point in future videos. AG

[@stevenbean9706]

ed pink said it best in a lecture i went to when he was talking to a cam manufacturer he asked if it was worth it to degree the cam the manufacturer asked do you know how ? he replied of course the manufacturer said good but bottom line is unless you grind it your not changing much of anything! you are inspecting it for the most part when he gave that speech i put my degree wheel away and got a lift gage that measures actual lift of the lobe i go through and check them if i look at the cam physically and see something i dont like

[@goldsgarage8236]

Good point Steve, I always use it to verify that the cam is in the right place but seldom move it. AG

[@Charger1908]

They used the 30-30 duntov cam in the 302 with the cross ram.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info. AG

[@cammontreuil7509]

Why was the 283 better than the 302 ? Considering they are somewhat related.

[@goldsgarage8236]

They have the same 3" stroke, the 302 has a 4" bore. AG

[@leonardfoster6252]

Ag, the bigger Z28 cams set at .022 & .024 valve lash. Z28 optional cam dual four barrel carbs cross ram...

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Leonard, I used one of those cams many years ago.AG

[@SteveZumpf-bd4hb]

I would run a smaller cam with tighter LSA. Around 244* intake 250* exhaust duration. Around .500 lift. On 108 LSA. It will have a healthy idle while making better low end torque than the huge 30-30 cam. The heads only need to flow about 212 cfm by .450 lift, which on old humps, will require some work but not serious porting.

[@goldsgarage8236]

That is good info, thanks Steve. AG

[@SteveZumpf-bd4hb]

Thanks AG. I am no DV but I have developed my own formulas to calculate minimum port flow, hp, vacuum etc. A 302 @ 7000 rpm requires 212 cfm port flow to make power. So the head needs to flow a minimum of 212 cfm by 92% of max valve lift. I believe the original dz302 had 11:1 compression. With 10.5:1 you can run a little less duration with a tighter LSA to keep the overlap similar for that nasty sound with more torque earlier. I work with Howards a lot. Let me know if you would like a custom recommendation.

[@cedricwilson2055]

You should drill the extra lower water passage between the two middle cylinders

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the tip Cedric. AG

[@pontiac411]

Have you ever checked streach on a rod after torque untorque and retorque 3 times?

[@goldsgarage8236]

Yes, typically the stretch will increase slightly because friction in the threads will be reduced. AG

[@flinch622]

Not to disagree with Vizard, but in choosing application, I'm not a max effort engine guy: operating range is my starting point, then I consider overlap before lsa, which then arrives to lift/duration for the heads. I note he does adjust his 128 number as engine size or compression comes into play. He's been plainly honest every time he says "I don't have an opinion - I have a dyno". That cannot be dismissed. I note he adjusts his 128 number [baseline factor for small blocks around 10.5:1] for big blocks and also for higher compression ratios - that is in his videos. I arrive at much the same conclusion as his 128 formula does, although I can't come anywhere close to his testing experience. That seems to be a natural result of lobe intensity limitations being a common denominator to get at other factors. It seems to me that bore size and combustion chamber size are why his [two valve] system works upon plugging in valve diameter, and I arrive by a modestly different approach noting that filling begins by exhaust pulse is key. As I see events during overlap, the bore & chamber size during overlap behave like an accumulator: the larger it is, the more help is needed for that negative signal to develop and be seen by the manifold and that means more overlap - achieved with tighter lsa for the same rpm range. Inverse is true for smaller setups. He notes bbc tend to behave as chronically undervalved, which [to me] illustrates the accumulator effect: smaller chambers [just 2 or 3 cc] wakes things up there. That said, enthusiasts might look at something cam cards can't display for a builder: managing time. A flat VE curves does not exist because the millisecond value for overlap changes throughout the operating range. Less peaky is a compromise for a more consistent response - often how split pattern cams behave. If I didn't screw up my math... a 65 degree overlap at 7000 rpm is a 3 milliseconds window. If I did make a mistake, correction is welcome. Looking forward to how this one turns out, and the gears leave room... heads are part of staying numbers correct? I wonder what the 12-673-4 lobes ground on a 109 vs off the shelf 112 would show on the dyno. I note the low lift choice on solid roller looks like period heads limitations. Ask Howards for real advice but there are two 0.535" lift lobe patterns that might interest: BR237357 (278 degree) and BR243357 (284 degree) - not sure those get you both sound and rpm range you are looking for however except using a 106 lsa.. They are kind enough to put lobe list on their site, unlike some others [thank God for Aussies who fill those gaps].

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Flinch. Great detailed information, I had to read it twice. AG

[@dannydurham5716]

I would consider the last cam but with 1.6 rockers on the exhaust Those older cast heads actually did "ok" on exhaust flow especially when you compare side by side to some newer heads

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the info Danny.AG

[@robertwest3093]

That 1/16 ring package should free up some hp over those old school 5/64 rings. Some production engines are using even thinner 1mm (.039) rings which are roughly half as thick as the old 5/64 rings and are proving that they are durable enough for OEM. Using a solid roller along with the other upgrades should give you a sweet running engine!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Robert, I forgot to mention in the video, but torque to turn is 20-22 ft.lb. Typically with 5/64 rings is is about 30ft. lb. so it should help. They are also file fit rings. AG

[@RustyEast]

So the 68 has vent windows and no shark gills? Or is that just the 67 ?

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Rusty, only 67 had the vent window. AG

[@yarrdayarrdayarrda]

Mechanical roller, although an excellent choice for output, creates a host of issues for the application. You need way more spring, requiring cutting the spring pockets, which is risky on the factory heads. You need roller rockers, which won't fit the Z valve covers, there goes the originality of the car, other Z purists will snub you for it.

[@palmergaylord1090]

If it's in your budget run the roller

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Yarrda, all good points, Tony even has the correct "O" stamped factory rockers that he would like to use. AG

[@owennelson9068]

It’s not too hard to find NOS GM SBC camshafts on many different sites. Why not find a true 30/30 Duntov cam? If the goal is to get that original sound and keep the engine close to original then use the real deal. If the lift isn’t enough for the heads, use a higher ratio rocker. There are many options when it comes to the lifters, I’m sure you know of a good brand with a hardened foot. I’m excited to see what the final decision is!

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for your suggestions Owen. AG

[@randyslatton3945]

I vote for the comp 12-673-4. Crower has one similar #00322S. I think if hes wanting the best of both sound and performance something needs to change. Tighter lobe separartion more than 110 or more compression to take advantage of more advertised duration.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for your input Randy. AG

[@robposkrop941]

Are they the correct pistons?

[@goldsgarage8236]

They are not OEM, they are aftermarket pistons. AG

[@rogerstill719]

Once you get the heads flowed,then you can choose a Cam. Is it an automatic with a stall or a manual?

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Roger, all Z28's are 4 speed cars and the M21 transmission has 2.20:1 first gear. Tony has a 4.56:1 rear gear in his Z. AG

[@jerryhablitzel3333]

I vote for a roller on a 110. I would even see if you could get it ground on a 111. Sometimes for a few more $ you can get it done to your spec. The money vs. accuracy ratio then comes into play.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comment Jerry. AG

[@gregmaggielipscomb9246]

Nice video, it seems to me that Duntov was actually a Ruskie ? He looked like on of my old relatives.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Greg, AG

[@vincemajestyk9497]

I would keep a solid lifter cam with nearly the same specs as the OE. To get it to 'sound' the same you need to maintain the same duration range, overlap, LSA range. The original I believe had a fairly late exhaust closing event due to the wide LSA and long duration. You need to maintain the original, or nearly the same specs. There's lots of things that contribute to 'sound'. Compression, individual lobe timing events, exhaust. There's only one way to keep the OE sound, use the OE cam or as close to it. I would consider the mechanical Summit cam. I wouldn't go smaller than 112 LSA Compression and exhaust timing and OL will get you the sound. You could speed the ramps up a little bit, but that's going to change the sound too. No rollers, No hydraulic, No 'modern' fast designs. You might need more compression than you have, but if you trim the cam specs down 'slightly' it'll be nearly the same sound as you're after. Almost all the aftermarket of the era had copycat grinds near the OE HP versions. You can find a catalog grind from Crower or ISKY pretty easily. Crane had a massive catalog with some great choices. They had an EXACT copy of the 3849346 cam (967251 their number) listed at 4000-7000 rpm 254/254@ .050. Alternately, you could go with the next choice down F-288-2 ground on 114 248/258 @50 lift is a little over .500 and range is 34-7200 revs. Another one to think about is the F-280-2 ground on 112 about 10 less on the intake side. But I like the F-288-2 as an improvement of the OE with the virtually the same characteristics, but a wider band.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Lots of great info in your comments Vince, thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. AG

[@robertjohnson6719]

Good solid information no bs

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Robert. That is our goal. AG

[@95Sn95]

I hate it when people on forums say the "chevy 302 had a short stroke so its no good on the street" that is moronic its the DZs cam and cam only only the thing that makes the statement is the windsor 302 has the same bore and stroke and there even used in trucks...... I drove a 302 in a 66 el camino 4 speed and it had a nice but milder cam and regular driving it really didnt feel much different than a 350 with similar parts and it spun right up with some rpm. Years ago I bought a summit dz cam for my 350 and chickened outwhen it came time i was afraid it would destroy the TQ i sold it to a guy with an 81 4 speed Z with a warmed over 350 with double humps and even being a old school drsign it still ran like a scalded cat.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for sharing your point of view and experience. AG

[@Geezer1320]

If you put that solid roller in it will fly. When I went to a solid roller I couldn’t believe the difference. But like one other guy commented, you are gonna have to change the valve train significantly.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Geezer, that is good information. .AG

[@pontiac411]

I believe Grumpy ran 109 lsa in his 327 ci engines which I think is in line with DV's. 109 to 110 on a 302 would probably do good.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Good point. Thanks. AG

[@jimclarke1108]

I'm watching with great interest, i have a Holden 304 factory roller hydraulic cam V8 engine, i need some idea of what to fit, oi oi oi🤠

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Jim, always good to hear from you. AG

[@Charger1908]

I feel stupid, you stated what I wrote later in your video. I guess I’m too quick to offer my own info at times, my apologies.

[@goldsgarage8236]

No problem at all, thanks for watching and please keep the comments coming. AG

[@FordShelby-i6z]

So, if you wait `till you have your heads ported and look at the flow ratio if the exhaust flows more than 75% more likely a single profile, less than and you might just want a dual profile. PS thanks Mr Vizzard

[@goldsgarage8236]

Good info, thanks for the input. AG

[@Haffschlappe]

Try Elgin L46 corvette 3 cam

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Haff. AG

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

Here's the deal, to be able to pick the close to best cam it is good to see the flow numbers first.🤷 One cam might work great with certain heads but wouldn't be the best choice for a different set of heads. Knowing the flow characteristics will help better determine the closer to optimum performance camshaft. Say if the heads don't start flowing good till after .400" lift and starts to really flow good past .500" lift and tops out over .600" lift you'll be leaving a ton of power on the table if a cam with around .550" lift is chosen. The better choice would be a cam with around .600" plus of lift, .650" to .680" would be just right. But if the heads have really good low lift flow and they top out just above .500" lift that .550" lift cam would be something to consider. You just can't pick a cam and expect whatever set of heads you bolt on to be the best cam for the combo. And another thing, if you want to spin to 10,000 RPM and still make the HP numbers rise, those heads will need to flow a tick over 300 CFM according to the Wallace Racing calculator sight. You might want to re-ask this question after you have flow numbers to post.😎👍

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks IEGTWOIA, Good point, that is what we are doing. Bill will be flowing the heads before we pick the cam. Remember, this still a street engine so we are not looking for .600" lift or 10,000RPM. Replicating the original 302 is the major priority.

[@itseithergonnaworkoritaint7852]

@@goldsgarage8236 Ok, I watched the video twice and could of swore you said that you were going to dyno the engine to 10,000 RPM.😁🤷 What intake will that have? Would be nice to run an Airgap RPM or just a regular RPM dual plane instead of any crappy factory intake. Are you sure you want it to be a solid cam? Those Summit 4/7 swap flat tappet cams work very well. A 1203 is the stage 4 cam and it works great in a 307 with 3.73:1 gears. With 4.56:1 you could get away with running the 1204 stage 5, 4/7 swap cam in that for a bit more RPM fun. The only reason to run a solid cam is to run more than 6,500 RPM unless you get the trick hydraulic lifters designed to run higher rpm. How much RPM does the customer want to run? That would be something to also know before choosing a cam. I heard stories of those engines revving to 7,000 RPM, if he wants that, one of those flat tappet cams will work with the trick lifters. I would pick the 1204 stage 5 one. This will save him about a 1,000 bucks and will run very well. Just don't get carried away with the porting and use 1.6:1 rockers to grab some of that higher lift air flow. If he has his heart set on a solid cam, don't be afraid of over .600" lift if that's where the flow is. With a solid roller you can get the lift higher without the duration getting to high. Or don't be afraid to use a higher rocker ratio to get to the flow while keeping the duration in check. They make really good springs these days for those higher lifts. Not like back in the day when the Z28 springs were the best out there. To save a ton take a look at the NASCAR used solid roller springs, you can get those for pennies on the dollar and they still have plenty of life left in them.😎👍

[@mitchellferre1652]

What is a zed 28 ?

[@basilcarroll9729]

Zed is widely known to be used in British English .But is also used in almost every English speaking Country.In England, Scotland,Wales,Ireland,Australia, India,Canada and NewZealand., Z is pronounced zed.It's derived from the Greek letter zeta. Zee became the standard way to pronounce Z in the United States in the 19th century. Oh it's a Camaro with the Z28 package.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for helping me with that Carroll. AG

[@pockets5628]

IMO at lot of the cam choice for the 302 depends on how close you want to duplicate the original sound. If you want the best output, without question I would do a custom solid roller from Chris Straub AFTER you have the head flow numbers. He will not design a cam for you without that info. He can manipulate the valve events to make the sound more radical, but it will have the widest powerband because it's made for the exact combination. Any other cam besides the various versions of the 30-30 or z28 cam you cannot say how close the sound will be to original. Unless you just want it to have a radical racecar sound. Then there are many choices. My choice would be a custom solid roller. You are spending the time/money to modify the heads for maximum output, put the brain of the engine it needs to maximize that head work, as well as make the best driving engine.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Great info, thanks Pockets. AG

[@shadvan9494]

since this is a restoration engine, I would go as close the original Z28 cam as possible. the original Z28 cam was 254 degrees @ .050 with .485 valve lift. and if i remember correctly it was on a 114 LSA. the reason for going roller is that modern SN rated Engine Oil has less than 800ppm of ZDDP. ZDDP is a high-pressure additive needed to keep flat tappet cams from going flat. in fact, no modern SN rate oil you can buy at a parts store has enough ZDDP to keep your flat tappet cam safe. that restricts you to using expensive specialty oils and having to order it in before doing a maintenance oil changed. and you never know what a customer will do when changing oil. i everything i build get a retrofit roller cam, so they are able to go into the parts store and be able to get oil if i need it. the exception i make for my roller cams only rule is exactly the situation you have here, a restoration engine on something rare factory performance car. for that i recommend only Lucas Hot Rod and Classic Oil. it has High ZDDP content (2100 ppm) and a corrosion inhibitor to protect cars that are in humid environments and are not drive very often. think east Texas, Georga, Florida. and i use Lucas Break-in Oil (3600ppm ZDDP). so in this case i would stick to the reproduction cam. the Howards cam is a little small in my opinion. and should max out around 6000-6500 RPM. something in the 242-247 range would be ideal to hit 7k. the original cams were a single pattern grind. the closest thing too it in a roller is the Crower Level 4 00426. its 250/252 @.050 on a 112 lobe LSA. however, it does have a bunch more lift. and should work awesome with 10:1 compression. it has a little for exhaust duration, which is better for a car using factory exhaust manifolds but would work equally well with small tube 1 5/8 in headers like the original 67 and 68 GM z28 header option. the headers were included in the back seat when shipped and install at the dealership. original ones are not cheap. the last set of NOS 1968 headers i saw were $16,500! and that was back in 2017. so, they would be even more now. you could buy a entry level Kia for that price in 2017. since this is a restoration in a real Z28, i would stick to the reproduction flat tappet cam. but if it was a retromod or someone building a clone, then i would go with the roller. I mostly build big clock Chevys for marine use, so i only use the Lucas Hot Rod can Classic Oil, its good stuff, works with both roller and flat tappet cams, the corrosion inhibitor is great since boats are always in a wet environment or sitting after use in a wet environment. but its also good in anything with a flat tappet cam, i also use it exclusively for Air Cooled VW engine application. just my two cents.

[@goldsgarage8236]

Lots of great info in your comments Shad, thanks for sharing. AG

[@johncarson9691]

Last split duration came is going to be the best id get

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks for the comment Jon

[@goldsgarage8236]

Sorry, I spelled your name wrong, John. AG

[@michaelphelps5064]

I would use the copy of the original. With some head work the cam will likely make more power anyway. And you always have the option of increasing your rocker ratio and taking a little lash out to improve lift. But I'm no professional

[@goldsgarage8236]

all good points Michael. Thanks for your input. AG

[@jmflournoy386]

Are the lifter bores virgin, most are not by now, instead of bushing bore to AMC lifters and get a cam optimized for .904 lifters. i'd get head flows and ask Mike Jones to spec the cam any way to spec a roller cam? Jones cams ground with a small wheel with profiles developed for chevy Indy program. Using flow trumps intake size. 30-30 was designed for the valve springs of the day today it leaves a lot of torque on the table. Long easy duration can give rpm but costs torque good quench The extra $$$ you invest with Jones will be well worth it torque

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks very much for the info JM

[@jmflournoy386]

Let's Review the first cams i used were by the eccentric Ed Winfield who later did the cams for the AMC Indy project. Then Ed Iskenderian (who now has Ed's masters) did his ONLY .904 profile for our 62 413 then Racer Brown did one which was faster but not as consistent. Ed's cam would still work in brackets and I'v used it to dial in chassis but to move on to UDHAROLD and his series of cams for comp, lunati, Ultradyne then a company bought by Howards- all better as he moved on.

[@jmflournoy386]

Moving on the great Dick Jones ran the Champion Spark Plug dyno and ran out Rambler 6 Indy engine, he and Winfield were tight and his sons Rick and Mike went into the cam business in So Cal. FAst foreword Rick and Mike have the best computer software in the business and they got the R&D for the Chevy Indy project

[@jmflournoy386]

The did three things AFAIK Developed (made work) the inverse radius on the flanks of roller cams, optimized the opening and closing ramps and transition from clearance ramps, and optimized the over the nose profiles Results are a very smooth yet quick action and higher rpm without valve float. No one else comes close final grind with very small wheel costs but you get what you pay for

[@jmflournoy386]

For your project LIGHT VALVES and modern springs and valve profiles let Mike pick them

[@dannydurham5716]

Are the heads 041? Or 186

[@goldsgarage8236]

186. Thanks for the question Danny. AG

[@HoosierRooster]

If you're using stock style heads 248 260 on 108

[@goldsgarage8236]

Thanks Hoosier. AG