.338 Spectre : Comparison To 300 BLK And Is It Worth Adding To Your Collection?

[@Problematicbehavior]

338 arc being eluded to. Love it

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

6:07 - He's talking about 338 ARC. Don't make the same mistake I did. ARC is definitely NOT Spectre. Spectre has the headroom for SIGNIFICANTLY higher BC profiles. Is ARC good? Absolutely. It will also be far better supported/commercialized. Is it Spectre good? Nope.

[@DavidBrubaker-pi4gj]

Bro, lol everything after 5:55 is so funny to listen to after the Hornady launch

[@bass3003]

Your suspected big brand 338 was announced today. As a huge 6.8 SPC fan, I think I'd stick to Spectre if I wanted a subsonic option for my SIX8's

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

If you want the best performing option, it's Spectre. If you want the best option with more industry support, it's gonna be 338 ARC. Honestly, with all the ARC hype putting more light on Spectre, I think we're all going to be impressed with some upcoming industry developments.

[@chevrofreak]

Were you referring to the new 338 ARC?

[@markalex3866]

FINALLY….someone is spotlighting this awesome caliber…

[@briansouth9325]

@@markalex3866 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn3JoqKvga6YnLcsi=xgAaLl-rQR5SA4B2

[@adamhorr8492]

I have had a 338 Spectre for ten plus years, makes more sense to me than the 8.6 if you are sticking to subsonic why carry around an ar10?

[@MattWaller04]

How does it compare to 8.6? From what I can tell they are very similar cartridges by design

[@jdbhunting365]

@@MattWaller04 338 Spectre has a smaller case capacity which is a good thing for subsonic loads because the case fill can affect consistency in accuracy also the 338 Spectre uses less powder than 8.6 BLK to achieve the same velocity making it a quieter round to suppress

[@MattWaller04]

@@jdbhunting365 nice. Very interesting round

[@Dan-b2j]

300 Blackout is the CQB King. Ideal for home defense, in and around vehicles and structures or as a bag gun. Compact, superior terminal performance at close ranges to 5.56 and about the same price as 7.62x39. Short 7" - 10" Barrel suppressed w/ a rifle speed adjustable gas block Essentially two separate cartridges in one rifle. Simply switch mags and adjust the gas setting. ~110 gr super sonic effective out to ~300yards.(with a 9.5" 300 BK shooting supers, you are getting approximately 14.5" 5.56 TERMINAL performance) ~200 gr sub sonic, stupid quite (you are getting essentially 45 ACP like terminal performance 100 yards and in)

[@joelwright1822]

Agree with everything you're saying. I really saw the merit when shot from a 5.5" 1:5 twist Sig Rattler. I'm hoping more companies deviate from short barreled DI ARs and create novel short stroke piston 300 BLK uppers. We need more sub 6" barreled options and more dual reticle optics for super and sub zeros. Two technologies that are going to push this cartridge even further forward are: -Bi-metalic (hybrid) cases allowing +P pressures. Longer barrel velocities from shorter barrels. -Subsonic expanding bullets that enable huge wound channels from slow moving bullets.

[@ToastbackWhale]

@@joelwright1822 We already have the second thing. .300 subs have some NASTY projectiles available that have proven to be very reliable. Check out Discreet Ballistics if you don't already know them.

[@Dan-b2j]

@@joelwright1822 Ahmen bruther. Bi-metal hybrid cases for 300 blk out would be awesome. You start to loose the dual purpose appeal of subs and supers with those really short barrels though as you loose velocity on your supers. 9.5" inches is ideal and still allows rail space for all your accoutrements and off hand grip. A 4x prism optic with a piggy back red dot works pretty well for super and subs. The piggy back red dot is used for both subs and supers in the 0 - 50 yard range, where the zero differences between the sub and supers is negligible. This higher mounted piggy back gives you the advantageous "head up" posture for optimal situational awareness and use under nods. The 4x prism is zeroed for the supers for targets in the 50 - 300 yard range. At those ranges you have a more traditional cheek weld which is better for precision.

[@sluttybutt]

On what planet is .45 ACP-like terminal performance inside 100yds "superior to 5.56"? .300 chimpout apologists are unbearable

[@gorps]

300blk absolutely does not have superior terminal ballistics vs 5.56. Those projectiles are not doing 2000 fps on impact and will do significantly less damage via tearing tissue outside the wound track. You can't use energy in ft-lbs to calculate terminal ballistics because velocity plays a massive role in terminal ballistics. ~2000-2200 fps is where rounds start accelerating tissue faster than its elastic capacity, and without that velocity, the wound tracks of 300blk will be much much smaller than 5.56. This is the same reason why 7.62x39 was replaced by 5.45, to get the additional terminal ballistic effect of higher velocity rounds. also this thread reads as extremely reddit operator lol.

[@BHRxRACER]

I guess 338 ARC is what you were teasing.

[@AC-bl1rl]

Spectre was developed in like 2009, the whispers were developed in the early 90's. Good stuff

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

Whisper 338 also used a different case. Spectre is slightly better optimized for modern bullet profiles.

[@EagleRun23]

Hey Spectre gang fans!!

[@whatiwant8898]

The 338 Specter has always made more sense to me than the 8.6BLK because of the subsonic pure use case. I feel like the ball was dropped with the design 8.6blk. They could have made it like the 300blk with the dual purpose capability, but the insane twist rate kinda neuters that ability with lighter bullets.

[@whatiwant8898]

@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd the high twist rate also isn't ideal for long range shooting as the high rotational rate of the bullet can pull it off course.

[@whatiwant8898]

@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd I'm thinking an ideal 8.6blk supersonic load, with a slower twist rate, should be able to reach out to 1k accurately. Somewhere around 150gr - 175gr solid copper projectile would do it since it's 6.5CM or .308 powder charge.

[@ravissary79]

​@@whatiwant8898the 8.6 doesn't have a 308 or 6.5 cm powder charge. It's capacity is about 2/3 of 308 with short bullets. The case is shortened significantly, but the case fill is still around 2x what the 300 blk or 338 spectre has.

[@SL-ix4yk]

338 ARC

[@kennygates1756]

The rumors about Hornady has been going around for a while

[@briansouth9325]

@@kennygates1756 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn3JoqKvga6YnLcsi=xgAaLl-rQR5SA4B2

[@rosseckstein4183]

I love mine. Had it for several years.

[@Fadaar]

For me I designated my FDE mags exclusively for 300 Blackout. Also put tape on there and wrote '300 BLACKOUT' nice and big.

[@trev1388]

Ive ran 338 spectre for years with a two stamp platform. I enjoy it but the mixed availability of brass makes you scratch your head. Its a reloaders cartridge and ive considered it like the RCM line of cartridges from hornady. Its alive but barely.

[@KeithFleming-qs2kh]

Great video Rob I love my 300 black out in rem 700 it absolutely smokes coyotes at close range keep up the good work and videos coming

[@shawncampbell3191]

Bring it on I am waiting for more parts and components....338 arc!!

[@juanthelawnmowerthief1641]

Diligent Defense DTM should sound really good on this!

[@jdbhunting365]

There’s not enough 338 Spectre content out there great video on the subject hope to see more in the future

[@ToastbackWhale]

2:33 Kinda...all of the precision .22 shooters use only subsonic .22. Going transsonic introduces a lot of inconsistencies that affects accuracy, whereas a naturally subsonic round is stable throughout its flight. GarandThumb has a rather popular video about basically this topic with some people who can shoot better than most of us. As for subsonic .300: there are some *nasty* bullets out there like from Makers, Discreet Ballistics, and Gorilla that let subsonic .300 punch WAY above its weight.

[@the1andonlySherlock]

As someone who competes in PRS 22, the transonic issue is a non-issue. People use subsonic .22 because the options for high quality match grade supersonic .22LR is very limited. If you get lucky and your gun likes something like SK High Velocity Match, it shoots well out to whatever distance you want. The problem is that the higher velocity ammo actually has more wind drift than the slower stuff, and wind is the biggest challenge for long range shooting.

[@DavidK2007]

Thanks for the video on this neat cartridge.

[@SilencerSyndicate]

Thanks for watching!

[@GldenRetriever]

Glad to see the 338 spectre getting some love again. Only took 8.6blk to "bring it back to life". It's no 9x39 or 350 legend, but its better than 300blk (and the soviets found this out decades ago with 7.62x39) lol.

[@markalex3866]

The Maker 300 gr bullet is a great performer…

[@SnarkyPosters]

There's also the 338-223 Straight, 338 made from a 223/5.56 case.

[@noidea3177]

300 blackout subs sitting beside. Perfect.

[@LGB-FJB]

338 caliber in a AR15 platform? You are describing the 338 Razorback.

[@AKGuru4774]

The 338 RB is shit in the AR. FTF/FtE. Its a good idea for a short action boltgun that DOESNT use an AR mag. Want it reliable run the Spectre.

[@ryankozarich6968]

Razorback is 10mm Auto necked down, Spectre is 10mm Magnum necked down. Both cartridges use the same case head as 6.8 SPC, with Spectre leaving more room for Powder.

[@jdbhunting365]

@@LGB-FJB 338 Spectre can be loaded for subsonic or supersonic velocities 338 Razorback is a subsonic only cartridge it can’t be loaded for supersonic velocities. 338 Spectre parent case is 10mm magnum 338 Razorback parent case is 10mm auto.

[@That_Guy5575]

@@AKGuru4774There’s a certain KZbinr that would disagree with that. He has a number of videos of his AR running 338 RB just fine

[@YesIFondle]

I had a razorback in an ar platform. It ran flawlessly but I could not for the life of me keep cases from splitting. To the point I ended up selling the gun and the stuff to reload it.

[@iamrich111]

Can't wait for 8.6 ARC

[@CaptainCreampie69]

8.6 blackout already exists. ARC is years late to the party and will have the same problems that the other ARC cartridges have of a special bolt and magazine. 8.6 blackout just uses a standard bolt and magazine.

[@lordhellfire153]

​@@CaptainCreampie698.6 blackout requires a completely different rifle ecosystem than the ARC cartridges because it's all AR10. To complain about ARC needing a different special bolt is ignorant.

[@draconian6692]

Lmfao just wait😂 hornady might

[@jdbhunting365]

⁠​⁠@@CaptainCreampie69 from what I’ve researched it is possibly going to be a 6.5 Grendel bolt & magazines

[@CaptainCreampie69]

@@lordhellfire153 Not ignorant at all. I am very well aware of the bolt size difference in the platforms. If you want to shear lugs, be my guest. If you only shoot 100 rounds a year then it will last you 30-40 years roughly. I shoot a ton though. So much so that I got into reloading so I can shoot even more and cheaper. I easily rip 3000 rounds a month and I am closer to 4000. I don’t want my stuff breaking at the most inopportune time like during my pig hunts with a possible charging pig or perhaps a biped storming into my house at night. You do you. Enjoy your 338 ARC, I will stick to my 8.6 blackout in my Q Fix and soon to be Q Boombox.

[@ethan5.56]

Cool looking round for sure. Great video

[@SilencerSyndicate]

Thanks for watching

[@Lukavich]

@@SilencerSyndicate 338 ARC is now announce publicly. Time to make a new video!

[@GldenRetriever]

If you want a quiet can, look at the biaxial cans based off off the Mk9K like the CT CT9K and GSL Pheonix. GSL also makes a compact version of theirs called the fatman. I run the CT9K on my 9x39s and it's definitely super quiet. A noticeable difference from my wolf9sd in long config. While shooting 338 through a 9mm can is nice, it's would be cool to see some 338 dedicated cans come out for like what Q did. But since I run 350L and 9x39, I can get away with 9mm pistol cans due to the low pressure at the muzzle.

[@ryanhutchinson3550]

Grendel case necked up to a 338 would work

[@JeffFowler-t1x]

Its hornady bringing it out and its just a modified 8.6 blackout they helped produced with Q except itll be with the shoulder they want.

[@jdbhunting365]

@@JeffFowler-t1x I’ve heard it’s going to be 6.5 Grendel necked to .338 for the AR15 platform. 8.6 blackout is 6.5 Creedmoor necked to .388 for the AR10 platform. I don’t think it’s a modified 8.6 blackout I think it’s something new similar to the 338 Spectre which is 6.8 SPC necked to .338 for the AR15 platform.

[@CraigBrosRacing]

PREACH BROTHER PREACH!!!!THE GOOD WORDS OF THE GREAT BROTHER BRITTINGHAM!!...BOOK Q CHAPTER 1 SAYS ITS ALWAYS EASIER TO BE A COPYCAT BECAUSE THE BEST ALREADY DID THE WORK FOR THEM...JUST ASK SIG ABOUT THEIR CRISSCROSS TRASH..😂😂😂😂😂😂AMEN.

[@peacesmakers]

The Anechoic Anechox 35L and JK Armament Goat were definitely noticeably quieter!

[@bigtex919]

250gr seems pretty light that’s what I shoot in my 300.

[@borkwoof696]

With what kind of bullet?

[@J_D_Rambro]

Good content, I'd lie those cans compared to a Omega 36m with that caliber.

[@chevrofreak]

338 Razorback?

[@AKGuru4774]

New’ish intro to over bore sub sonic calibers. Its a half assed attempt to kickstart the almost dead - but usable and quite frankly good 338 Spectre thats been around since ‘09 or 2010 that actually feeds reliably. The RazorBack (RB) doesn’t feed that reliable.

[@X-ForceBro]

338 ark maybe

[@Beefsupreme13]

Very interesting and I’m excited to see this new round rumor. AR-10 owners are on life support.

[@climbhigh3094]

Will it have a 1:5 twist? Or 1:3

[@ravissary79]

The new cartridge he hints at has a 1:8.

[@ShowMeqtrmoa]

Great video, on the JK G.O.A.T did you shoot it wet or dry? Sounded like it was dry or not very wet, but may have just been because of the type of round.

[@MahDeucekicksdonkey]

Is this new manufacturer Hornady with a 1:5 Twist Targeting Max load capable of 1050fps with a 300gr? I have a theory.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

It actually turned out to be a 1:8 twist. Still 300gr @ 1050 though. Doesn't quite have the efficiency of Spectre, but it will be its nearest competitor. Carries 500lb-ft out to just over 400 yards.

[@Bubbybub0077]

I think basing it on the 224 valkryie bolt face is not a good move. I could be very wrong, apologies if so, but I think the grendel/ARC/PPC bolt face is the way to go. It is pretty much the other AR standard bolt face at this point. I'm sure somebody already made one, but a 338 Grendel sounds like what is on the table. But if we are all being honest here the 450 Bushmaster has some excellent subsonic loads and performance. Is that not the path to pursue?

[@Bubbybub0077]

Kind of Wild I made this comment and Hornady released the 338 ARC a couple weeks later

[@agentoranj5858]

It's to do with mags, feeding, and the strength of the bolts. .338 Spectre hails from 2009 back when 6.8 SPC was still around, so Spectre could take advantage of 6.8 mags still being on shelves and Spectre had more of an audience because the difference in reliability between 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel was still in living memory. Grendel/AK diameter bolts tend to crack more than SPC ones; Even today the .400 Legend, close to a necked-up Grendel in overall dimensions, still has a rebated rim because the SPC bolts are stronger. The AR-15 in general is a gangly bastard and there are always teething issues when trying to cram a fatter case into it because the magazine well, feed ramps and bolts are all designed around the skinny .223 cartridge. 6.5 Grendel won more market share in the long run because it runs circles around 6.8 SPC in performance and has no issues in a bolt-action, but the AR reliability competition was always lopsided in the opposite direction so the SPC form factor endures among wildcat enthusiasts, especially with LWRC filling the niche for true double-stack SPC magazines in a way that nobody else has for Grendel and ARC despite the greater potential financial return.

[@AB1138-]

Fast(er) twist 338 ARC for the win.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

Manufacturer suggested twist rate is just a suggested guideline for safety reasons. In all actuality, Spectre has notably more headroom for bullet selection. You can run the same twist rate or higher, depending on the chosen bullet. It's still 338 at subsonic... not like there's a huge difference in bearing surface options that'll fit a 2.26" action.

[@DrShootemupp]

Hey brother what’s the twist rate of the barrel?

[@jdbhunting365]

@@DrShootemupp I believe it’s 1:3

[@garretttrampler7041]

Can you swap out end caps on the velos lbp, to accept 6mm?

[@TheRealKendrick]

Everyone is trying to re-invent a 45ACP sub gun. Heavy 200+ grain bullets for CQB suppressed.

[@airtightbox]

Is this going to be the one built on the .350 Legend case?

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

No. 350 Legend already has subs. The new round he's talking about, is 338 ARC. It uses a shortened 6.5 Grendel case, necked to 338.

[@airtightbox]

@@JamesCopeland-i1j Just trolling James. You can load .338 in cut down 5.56 cases.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@@airtightbox - I wouldn't even try. The whole point is gaining BC. Even if you can, the seat depth wouldn't leave room for a sufficient powder charge with a high BC bullet. There's not enough COAL to fit high BC + charge in 5.56x45.

[@airtightbox]

@@JamesCopeland-i1j google 338-223

[@Hades16899]

This is why I ended with 8.6 blk

[@autumnfragrance6326]

How does it compare with 338 ARC ?

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

For all intensive purposes, 338 Spectre is superior to 338 ARC. More ogive headroom for higher BC profiles. ARC is best viewed as a more commercialized variant. With that will come a selection of off-the-shelf rifles, and likely a broader range of manufacturers and loads. If that's what you want, go with ARC. If you want maximum subsonic performance envelope from an AR15 receiver... Spectre is the top-out. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[@roberthutchinson2856]

Why not just use 350 legend so you can keep your bolt compatibility

[@sluttybutt]

Because people associate .350 legend with hunters so it's not perceived as cool and sexy, despite the energy on target making it a very good option

[@Sageofthe16]

10mm auto, necked to .338(8.6) also known as 338 razorback. lol, might as well shoot 350 legend subs

[@jdbhunting365]

@@Sageofthe16 338 Spectre uses 10mm magnum brass or 6.8 SPC brass not 10mm auto brass.

[@Sageofthe16]

@jdbhunting365 k

[@sickjohnson]

Interesting...just my perspective; I must have blinked and missed the part where you explained why you didn't like .300blk & 8.6blk and how .338 Spectre is Superior to them bedsides in safety mentioned at the end of the video?

[@jdbhunting365]

@@sickjohnson 338 Spectre is a superior subsonic cartridge because it has better case fill than .300blk & 8.6blk making it more accurate than both it also uses less powder to achieve the same velocity as subsonic 8.6blk making it even quieter and it can be chambered in the AR15 platform instead of the AR10.

[@sickjohnson]

@@jdbhunting365 Thank you good sir. 08:20 - he did touch on the case capacity enabling better range performance for the 8.6 blk... Loads of information in this short video for sure...can't seem to find the twist rate .338 Spectre is running at...or energy on target, and max range, but it looks cool!

[@jdbhunting365]

@@sickjohnson 338 Spectre can use 1:3 1:5 1:6 or 1:6.5 twist from my research 1:6.5 is pretty accurate and the energy on target is comparable to 44 magnum energy. From what I’ve read at 1000 yards it has more energy on target than 9mm does at the muzzle.

[@sickjohnson]

@@jdbhunting365 Wow...much thanks for your information and time!

[@Lukavich]

Yeah, 1:6.5 seems to be the preferred twist

[@R.E.factor]

Is that Ben Avery range?

[@jamesray1768]

Used dedicated 300 mags

[@cornfedchris1]

Or a rubber band

[@borkwoof696]

How can a .300BLK out of an 11" barrel equal a 7.62x39 out of a 16" barrel?

[@washburn8932]

The ballistic coefficient of 300 blackout is what makes it “just as effective” as the old m43 7.62x39 Past 300 yards the 300 blackout has more energy just because the projectile flys better.

[@borkwoof696]

@@washburn8932 for which bullet, though? There are a bajillion different loads out there.

[@tacamo21]

Probably the 110gr. Expensive but you get crazy terminal ballistics from the TSX 110 out to 300 yards.

[@lordhellfire153]

​@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd if you load 7.62x39 with the same powder, wouldn't you end up with the same result?

[@washburn8932]

@@lordhellfire153 not exactly. It comes down to aerodynamics the m43 7.62x39 is not as Efficient at cutting through the air as say a barnes 125gr match burner, the 7.62x39 has more energy at muzzle and out to around 250 meters after that it’s just going slower than a 300 blackout supersonic in 110-128gr But I like both and I don’t think there’s all that much difference in them for the applications (I.e mag dumping into trash) I would be using one of them.

[@Wilt11-14]

I'll take this over the arc just because of the inherently stronger bolt. I know I'm crazy because of the lack of support, but I don't care. I don't trust that arc bolt.

[@andycole5957]

.223/5.56 is definitely not going anywhere; however, it is horrible as a "battlefield" round. There's a really good reason the military is FINALLY abandoning that horrible round; it doesn't reliably kill quickly. 5.56 was chosen to allow infantry to carry more rounds, with the belief that artillery accounts for the vast majority of casualties and infantry are just there to locate targets for artillery. 5.56 is also great at wounding people, which was said is better because it takes 2 to 3 extra fighters out of the fight, while they evacuate their wounded... Great idea, except it turns out it doesn't actually work. I think 5.56 is the perfect 3 gun round, which is why that is my 3 gun competition caliber; I only care that it puts holes in paper from 5' to 500yards. 300blk is my home defense carbine caliber because I don't need to shoot 500 yards while defending my house, and if I did, I would use my 6.5 Creed AR-10.

[@briansouth9325]

338 arc?

[@CaptShocker]

Likely the 8.6 ARC as mentioned a few times earlier. Just funny looking back at some conversations a while back. Thanks Hornady. 👍🏽

[@briansouth9325]

@CaptShocker 338 arc is what they are calling it. 175gr match black is listed on a secret squirrel list I've got. Not sure what twist.

[@CaptShocker]

​@@briansouth9325they probably tried to trademark anything "8.6" I would assume unless they just wanted to take everything out to a different level. I'm interested. Been on my holding pattern for the next build.

[@briansouth9325]

@CaptShocker same, i just figured 8.6 was so close to 6 they would just do 338 and happened to see it on a list

[@briansouth9325]

@@CaptShocker kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn3JoqKvga6YnLcsi=xgAaLl-rQR5SA4B2

[@BassStoke]

I’d wait for a new cartridge from Hornady…

[@rickbrown8865]

I had a 338 spectre build planned ($1300). Glad I saw this first!!!

[@Lukavich]

But how long have we been waiting already? How much longer could it take? These are honest questions, I have no idea, but I'm looking forward to it myself too.

[@Lukavich]

We didn't have to wait long. Yesterday the 338 ARC was announced by Hornady.

[@davidwhitson5460]

The advantage of the 338 spectre over 338 Arc is 6.8 magazines Barrett mags - run 25 rounds - Grendel mags jam !! My humble opinion

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

The advantage of Specre over 338 ARC is literally everything except the commercialization. Spectre represents the absolute pinnacle of subsonic performance envelope in an AR15 receiver. I have ballistic tables for Spectre loads that more than double the 500lb-ft range of 338 ARC. Spectre's position as the king of AR15 subs is not going to change anytime soon... if ever. All that being said, 338 ARC is Spectre's nearest competitor, and supercedes all other AR15 subs in considerable margin, by at least two metrics... be it sustained energy over range, accuracy, crosswind stability, reliability, reduced gas sensitivity, or just the sheer efficiency/cleanliness of it. ARC runs about as clean as anything you'll find in subsonic.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

With regard to your statement about Grendel mags jamming... Grendel mags jam with Grendel rounds. 338 ARC has a completely different contact surface, CG, and a slightly different cycle trajectory. I'm not saying it won't jam... but it's been proven to cycle reliably, and do so in public exhibition.

[@controlledchaos8851]

I think 300blk is for AR15 and 8.6 is for AR10 and we don’t need another round . We need more companies to bring the cost of ammunition down . That 8.6 is a nasty nasty round

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

The cost of ammunition isn't coming down much... and yes, we ABSOLUTELY need another round. 300BLK is a basketcase of compromises. For those of us who want to maximize subsonic performance in an AR15 receiver, 300BLK just doesn't cut it.

[@mrwagner01]

Well ain’t that little guy funky lookin. First time hearing about this

[@higgenbotham]

300 blackout and 8.6 blackout having the versatility of super and subs trumps the 8.6 arc. The 8.6 arc will be limited to being a subsonic niche round. 8.6 blackout in a boombox any day over this 8.6 arc setup.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

8.6 Blackout is a niche round. What's your point? Also, 338 ARC is in a completely different subset than both 8.6BLK or 300BLK.

[@VisionGunworks]

Does this guy not understand that .338 Spectre is not new? It’s been around and developed in the late 90’s and SAAMI spec’d in 2000. I’ve taken elk with a 200+gr projectile at just over 300 yards and it dropped. Will there be better projectiles and cartridges made in the future? Yes. Progression and design is inevitable but to say that .338 is new and not a viable cartridge for longer than 100 yards or so is, to me, just ridiculous. I’ll continue to use and abuse the .338Spectre in the rifles I build for clients and myself for years to come.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

You're confusing Whisper/Spectre. Spectre got SAAMI spec'd in 2011.

[@nickg3706]

@@JamesCopeland-i1jyou got a source for that? My reload data tells me max is 37.5k psi. I assume it’s not standard since you can use 6.8 spc, 10mm mag, or spectre brass. IDK what spectre head stamped brass is rated at.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@nickg3706 - I looked at the SAAMI site and couldn't find it... but when I searched "338 Spectre SAAMI" it said the cartridge received SAAMI specification/certification in 2011.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@nickg3706 - also, I've been told Spectre brass (SBR) is just pre-finished 6.8 stock they form to their own standard. If that's true or not, I couldn't tell you. I have had another loader tell me both 6.8 and 10mm Mag are viable, while others have purportedly has failures with 10mm Mag. I can't imagine how either would fail in such reduced capacity, unless they're using over-length bullets and seating them too deeply... which would definitely cause an issue. It's easy to chase that dragon, because there are several 338s out there with .800+ BC... and I'm pretty sure they're all 1.8" or more.

[@dshephard1028]

338 arc? I’m hearing not soo great

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

338 ARC is a great AR15 subsonic cartridge... but Spectre has a broader performance envelope. 338 ARC will be Spectre's nearest competitor for AR15 subs. It's just dialed back a little. On the flip side, we're guaranteed to see more industry support for 338 ARC, and I'm sure exposure for Spectre will increase as well (it already has).

[@dshephard1028]

@@JamesCopeland-i1j just got my specter barrel yesterday

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@@dshephard1028 - awesome 👍 I think you'll be impressed. It's been known to cause schoolgirl grins from a segment of shooters well known for taking themselves waaay too seriously 🤣

[@K-bob_45]

Saying this is better than 300 blk because subs only is kind of a bad take. Spoiler alert: if you are only concerned with subs you can just shoot 9mm (0.355) or 45 acp 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

It's not a "bad take". It's a fact. Don't be like Kevin at Q, and get all butthurt/blackhurt over 300BLK. Everybody is obsessed with comparing it, but aside from fitting an AR15 receiver, they're not even comparable. If you think 9x19 or 45ACP subs can come anywhere close to Spectre or ARC... you need to school yourself on their ballistics. I have a ballistics table for a 305gr Spectre load, that delivers more energy on target at 1,000 yards, than a suoersonic 115gr 9x19 JHP +P+ at the muzzle. You read that right... 515ft-lbs... at 1,000 yards. These rounds aren't just designed for subsonic. They're designed to carry energy, and lots of it, at range. Comparing 338 Spectre to 300 BLK is pointless, particularly for subsonic. 300 BLK is great for it's simplicity of barrel-swapping your way to a higher caliber AR15... but the smaller case diameter simply doesn't allow the capacity to compete with Spectre... subsonic, or otherwise. 300 Blackout is great round... for what it is. It's a simple, cost-effective upgrade. It satisfied the military, and a lot of hunters. The people it didn't satisfy, are those who want more performance envelope, and don't mind a bolt swap to get there. Spectre does that.

[@K-bob_45]

@@JamesCopeland-i1j yeah except you completely missed the boat. I can throw a super in 300 blk and get 1100 ft/lbs of energy. Obviously if you relegated to subs only bigger is better but there are bigger subs too. I’m happy more 338 stuff is coming out but I view 338 arc as dedicated subsonic and not really a competitor to 300 blk.

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@@K-bob_45 - they're two different cartridges, to serve two different purposes. You missed the boat on that. By the way... that 1,100lbs-ft.... at what range? I'm just asking because 338 ARC's first supersonic round exits the muzzle with 1,673ft-lbs and carries 1,115 of that to 200 yards.

[@K-bob_45]

@@JamesCopeland-i1j out of an 8” barrel 300 blk makes 1130 ft/lbs at the muzzle. 2150 ft/sec with Barnes factory 110’s. For me goofy mags and a different bolt face don’t really entice me to shoot 300’s over 220’s. 300 blk is more practical but if you really wanted to delve into purely subsonic and didn’t care about full capacity mags working or being readily available 338 arc might be the ticket. Personally if I go 338 I’d still go 8.6 unless the arc is wayyyyy cheaper than what I think it will be

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

@@K-bob_45 - until the industry support broadens and the new wears off, I really don't see 338 ARC being much cheaper than 8.6BLK by any reasonable margin... unless you plan on going through a ton of rounds. You're right on that one. On the flip side of that, if 338 ARC catches any significant traction with those who specifically want more subsonic performance envelope from AR15 than a factory bolt can provide... I think we'll see a considerable improvement in price point for alternative bolt builds. It won't have the market impact of 300BLK, but it's not intended to.

[@TheXaelem]

Barely got over the 338 federal now you tell me there's more 338 cal cartridges no one wants

[@JamesCopeland-i1j]

I want Spectre... and I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind having 338 ARC as well. By the way... I am FAR from being alone in that interest.