Tim’s Garage Episode 9: Saturn Sky Redline / Solstice GXP Cooling Upgrade Water Pump Comparison

[@LHT-Casual]

I appreciate this video so much! I'm getting ready to change out the water pump on my Sky Redline, and I was caught between what pump to get between OEM, AC Delco Gold, or aftermarket, and no where else was I able to see a clear deliniation between the designs and quality. Thanks so much!

[@courtneynygard4512]

Hey Tim, my water pump went out shortly after buying my Redline and I went with the aftermarket replacement (plastic impeller). Last week (after about 30,000 miles) my poor car started overheating, I crossed my fingers and replaced the thermostat and no joy. So I pulled the water pump and sure enough it makes a nice squeaking noise when I turn it by hand. Grabbed an AC Delco replacement on Amazon to replace it. So if you enjoy replacing water pumps, go with the plastic one and you'll get to do it every few years

[@350tiger]

Jason ... that is great feedback ! I really was a lot skeptical about the nylon impeller and it’s durability given the heatsoak we get with turbo.

[@22_floW]

As an automotive enthusiast myself (who also happens to own a Saturn Sky Redline Carbon Flash), I think the differences you show in this video reflect the after market supply playing catch-up to the demand. Hopefully in time, you'll see manufacturing improvements in parts like this as more and more smaller mom-and-pop shops continue to tool up and improve their designs, increase efficiencies, and hire on more qualified engineers and technicians seasoned in things like CAD design. (At least, that's my hope.) As someone who worries a lot about the supply of replacement parts, nobody will ever convince me that demand doesn't exist with even the least in-demand parts for vehicles too few ever cared a lot about. Take for example my 2006 Chevy Colorado: not many cared enough about it to lobby to have plenty of replacement parts be provided for it, and as a result, you can't find anyone who offers new brake control modules and usually get forced to make due with used parts from salvage. However, the perception that it's due to low demand is only partially true because what really causes that is the lackluster manufacturing constraints after market suppliers suffer from. They can't produce on-demand and they're forced to abide by mass-demand due to the efforts and money it takes to retool for parts like that. As a result, one thing I think we'll eventually see (in time) is an advancement of on-demand manufacturing models where said mom-and-pop shops slowly become more and more capable of providing replacement parts on-demand for almost any make and model, especially as computerization seeps into these businesses along with the cutting edge technologies and concepts like 3D printing, at-home mills and lathes, ubiquitously-accessible centralized application asset files and standards of manufacturing plans and parts, and all the other fabrication techniques we're seeing be developed and or replicated from software design concepts. Because of this, and because of general automation techniques, costs will slowly decrease for things that were once expensive to accomplish by smaller shops, and when they do, it'll become more and more viable to improvise systems and procedures to become more accommodating for parts that have been discontinued, like the Sky / GXP water pump.

[@gamano7905]

Fantastic VDO!

[@350tiger]

Thank you 😊

[@06colkurtz]

I enjoy your videos but you are just wrong about the water pump being a weak point. Of the full production run, very few have had issues with the water pump failing. The current understanding is that some early production pumps had seals that failed early. Once replaced they have had very good longevity.

[@350tiger]

Rob … being new to the platform I was trying to understand the reason for failures. You could very well be correct but nonetheless I was able to reduce radiant heat to the pump. It may not be necessary but in hot climates and frequent short trips or freeway travel with short cooldown periods before shut off it can create significant heat issues.

[@SuperMacGuy]

Where do the “check valves” go? I got them but saw no place to replace them, even on the temp sensor/distribution block.

[@350tiger]

Chris ... sorry for the slow reply. The check Valves go in the two small line that head to the overflow tank. They are inserted into the end of the hose right where it leaves the radiator too and also the connection right where it leaves the fitting at the front of the head. I have the GM instructions for installing them if you want a copy. It is very important that the check valve is installed in the right direction and that they are oriented as Vertical as possible or the ball valve will not close completely. Reach me by messenger if you need extra help Chris.

[@johnfarrell7119]

Do you actually work on Kapa Turbos or do just work on your own personal vehicle?

[@350tiger]

I have a lifetime of working on Perfomance vehicles and currently I only tinker on my own car … or close friends.

[@CrashLarue]

Did you ever replace the pump?

[@350tiger]

No not yet … I am at 20,000 miles

[@erichuelsman1334]

Tim, this is a great video and I enjoy watching all of them! Question: Is there a difference between the AC Delco 252-821 and 251-751 water pump kits that would account for the 50% difference in price between the two? Is one a more durable and sustainable pump than the other?

[@350tiger]

I am not certain ... I would inspect either pump and ensure it HAS the extra disk attached to the impeller. One of those was made in the past to be added to Small block Ford pumps called a flow cooler and it significantly improved water flow capability. I would have to order a pump to tell you for certain ... or order one and compare to the one in the video.

[@herbh9348]

Tim, I also wanted to ask you, I live in Irvine California, where can I get a good Dyno tune completed.?

[@350tiger]

Herb I will need to check on that but perhaps I may be able to help after I tune mine ... I bought the diagnostics cable and laptop to data log and build a tune ... I did that myself for my Supercharged motorcycle.

[@t.c.1878]

I’m looking for someone in San Bernardino county CA to change the water pump for a Saturn sky 2007 red line turbo

[@350tiger]

I hated that job and I don’t really work for others … this is a hobby for me.

[@statwow]

Hello, I have an 07 sky redline and it ran hot and spit all the coolant out the reservoir. When it gets hot it spits coolant out. Trying to find the problem we changed the thermostat, no luck. We flushed the system and tried that with no luck. The fan kicks on and works but it still runs hot. We are thinking that it's not circulating coolant and over heating. I did a compression test and 165-175 range. Is there a way to check the water pump without having to take it out?

[@350tiger]

It is absolutely IMPERATIVE that the system be purged correctly. If the system is ever opened after the full purging for ANY reason it will again get another airlock. Have the car COLD turn the heater to hot Use a vacuum device like an Airlift and create a vacuum of 15” and start the car. If necessary you may also need to alternate and block the return lines from the top of the radiator and the top of the head. Filling these cars with coolant is one of the most fun my things I have ever done. A buddy was having a problem with his redline after it had been bled 3 times by the mechanic. We managed to put another quart into the system by creating a vacuum. Some say lifting the reservoir works to get out the bubble but I would argue the ONLY way is to use a vacuum inducing device. If you take the cap off the reservoir ... you need to repurge the system. The only way to open the system and Not reintroduce a bubble is the pinch the line leaving the coolant reservoir at the top before you try to undo the cap and only remove it when cold.

[@350tiger]

Eric ... the burping or air purge of the system is very difficult to do! But it is the only way to get the cooling system working correctly.

[@statwow]

@@350tiger I will definitely try and do that again. We used a mityvac vacuum to pull some air out but wasn't sure what hoses to plug.

[@350tiger]

Eric Whiddon There is a line leaving the coolant reservoir at the top that splits into two lines. I used vise grips on both lines and started the car after creating a vacuum at the reservoir. I let it start to warm for 20 seconds and unclamped the line that goes to top of Rad and watched for sputtering of coolant at reservoir. As soon as a saw some I reclampwd the line and unclamped the upper line and watched for the same sputtering ... you should see the coolant level drop a bit and you should not lose vacuum. As soon as the upper is sputtering coolant Reclamp it and shut off car. Disconnect vacuum and top up coolant and reinstall reservoir cap. Go drive ... rev it well after warm a couple of times and come back and while still running clamp the upper hose at the single point just as it exits the reservoir THEN shut off car and let it cool. If the coolant level drops leave the clamp on the hose and remove the cap and top up coolant. Reinstall cap and remove clamp and you should be good if the purge is what was the issue. If you need to add any coolant it was likely the issue.

[@noobintraining4973]

Watching theses videos shoo when I sell my honda accord ill know what to do with the sky thank you

[@350tiger]

Awesome ! If I can be any help just reach out 😎

[@Xbullett308]

Greetings Tim.....!! I just want to say, that I love your Video's......!! Can't say it enough.... Have totally helped me with my Cars..... Not to mention that of course we have the same cars.... I was wondering, did you ever Replace your Water Pump......? I have to change the one out in my Black car as I have changed out every thing else to combat that car running hot.... Flushed the System, changed the Thermostat out twice, after making sure the 2nd one would open up in 180 degree water, changed the our the Radiator for Brand New AC Delco Rad etc..... Anyhow, I am now up against changing the Water pump out in it.... And I think you are right.... The AC Delco WP is the way to go.... Of course every where I look and read about these Sky Redlines says to make sure you use AC Delco Parts because these cars are very finicky.....!! lol.... Anyhow, was just wondering if you had changed yours out yet....? I am pretty sure I will have to pull the Turbo out to get to it comfortably..... Thanks again for posting all your great Video's....!! They are friggin awesome and have helped me quite a bit I have to say....

[@350tiger]

Super glad to hear that ... finishing up the final tune video during this in place quarantine 🙄

[@350tiger]

I read further ... sorry only read the first bit at first. I did not yet change my pump but I do have a new AC Delco one for when I do. Currently I have 9800 miles on my car and while I know it is a weak point I just in good conscience could not bring myself to change it while it was apart. I have been told you can change it with turbo in place but I find that extremely hard to believe. When you say HOT ... how hot? Currently 195-210 is considered normal for a stock cooling system. Besides ensuring it is bled well ... also check for any debris between the radiator and the AC condenser. Mine had chicken feathers sucked up in there.

[@Xbullett308]

Thanks for writing me back Tim... Yes, a good time to play mechanic... Stay at home as this Virus stuff is pretty scary... When it comes to this cooling System in my Black car, I have checked everything you could possibly check on it as far as to why it would run hot....No obstructions, Clean clear lines, Heater core good, air lifted the system, etc.... It sucks and I am not looking forward to changing out this Water Pump... When I say hot, I mean hot and it is starting to worry me to the point of ruining the engine... Although one must realize, the over heat warning light on these High performance Ecotec 2.0 motors does not even come on until the cars hit a whopping 250 degrees....!! Mar car has gone up as high as 244 and 220 is normal now... But it still drives like no big deal, but in my head I am freaked about it when I see the temp on the gauge....!! I even replaced the temp sensor down by the Turbo as well to make sure it was not faulty... I am certain that the Water Pump is barley pumping coolant through the system now as the temps have just gotten worse over each passing Summer... I wont even drive it anymore... Both my Redlines are 2008's... Black car now with 86,000 miles on it, my Red car, 61,000 miles on it... My Red car is starting to run hotter as well with miles and age also... I am convinced that these water pumps just get weak over time and use... And what is crazy, they don't even leak coolant out of the weep holes to let you know that they are starting to go bad... Your car will just start running hotter... I think you will see in time with yours perhaps... Although, your car still has New miles on it.....!! lol.... Wow... My Red Car now runs Between 198 & 217... I am sure when it hits 80,000 miles it will be up there as well in temps.... I am wondering if a guy just loosens up the turbo a bit from its mounts that it might give a guy just enuff room to get that WP out... After you take off the fan that is... Using the WP Timing chain Sprocket tool... I have already had to replace my Turbo on this car as well... Had to do that at about 70k... So I know what a pain that job is already.... I do not drive these cars all the time anyway so it fine... Thank you again for writing me back Good Sir.... Stay Healthy.....!!

[@350tiger]

David J Tackett have you tried turning the heater in while you create a vacuum and purge it. My buddy Herb has an identical problem to yours and we were able to draw enough air out to add an additional 1 quart of coolant. The way the water pump works is such that ANY cavitation reduces the flow characteristics dramatically. He was hitting 240 as soon as he turned the heater on ... heater off ran fine but it seemed there was a bubble trapped somewhere and by having the heater on and getting the car super warm while purging it the problem was cured. The AirLift device is not that expensive if you already have a compressed air source or can visit a buddy who does. If you need help I am always available for a call. Especially right now being grounded.

[@Xbullett308]

I did Tim... I heated it up where I knew the thermostat was open, heater going, so I knew there would be no obstruction within the entire cooling system such as closed thermostat.... But you do have something there.... My car is the worst while driving it with the heater on.... turn it off and the temp drops... Just the opposite of what a cooling system should do to an elevated engine temp... But,,, if you are driving with heater completely off, 70 to 75 miles per hour, steady 24 to 2500 RPM constant with cruise set, the temp goes up from 198, 199 and just slowly climbs clear up to 240, 242, 244, and will come back down to 199......???Huge damn swing which is completely terrible for any engine.... And it WOULD make sense for the temps to rise and fall like that within a 2 to 3 min kind of time frame it seems... So are you saying that there could still be air in the cooling system some where....? Just cannot imagine there could still be air in the system after all I have done to get it out....?? And thank you again for the advice and the option to perhaps give you a call... I might just have to do that.... I am going to back out in my Garage and do the bleed purge system procedure over again making sure the Stat is open, engine at running temp etc.... Guess I will have to watch your one video again on purging it to make sure I am doing it right......!! ;)

[@herbh9348]

Hey Tim, yes 3 weeks into me owning my upgraded Redline, the water pump failed, spilling coolant out all over the floor. Not being a mechanic, I sucked it up and paid the dealer cost because I know some special tools are required and turbo parts need to be removed, and it's attached to the timing chain, this is way out of my league, if I had a bigger garage I would love to learn and do this stuff myself, but I just don't have the room or the tools, as I know I could be saving myself a lot of money. Repair cost was $1,354.00 I know you're rolling your eyes right now but there was nothing I could do. Fortunately the water pump failure & coolant spill happened just as I was turning into my garage so no over temp problems or additional damage to the car. As I mentioned to you before my car only has about 40,000 miles. Thanks again for sharing your videos, I'm learning as I go Tim.